UEFA charge Montenegro
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UEFA charge Montenegro
Disciplinary proceedings opened on charges including racist behaviour and throwing of objects
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Be a few quid fine at most. It's a joke.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
That's the problem Murger - always a fine for an association that's no greater than fining you or me a quid. They need to start getting tough with these countries. If guilty, throw them out of the competitions for a period of time.Murger wrote:Be a few quid fine at most. It's a joke.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Agreed.
If found guilty, after a proper investigation [which should not drag on] they should have points deducted.
Next sanction would be matches behind closed doors.
Next would be Montenegro [or whoever] playing their home games in a neighbouring country.
Finally..ban them from international football, if their behavioural record does not improve.
Fines are useless..insulting even - hit them where it hurts.
If found guilty, after a proper investigation [which should not drag on] they should have points deducted.
Next sanction would be matches behind closed doors.
Next would be Montenegro [or whoever] playing their home games in a neighbouring country.
Finally..ban them from international football, if their behavioural record does not improve.
Fines are useless..insulting even - hit them where it hurts.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I'm not condoning the behavior in the slightest. Completely unacceptable. However, if you take aside racism and look at behavior in football in general - incidents like the Jack Grealish one are no better. Where do you draw the line at it being the fault of an individual, club or national FA?
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I don’t even know why we have to play these primitive footballing non entities , utter waste of everyone’s time as no matter how well you beat them unless your going up against quality teams you’ll learn very little . Time to reduce the size of the comp
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Monty Don's next... Once the softy middle classes starting acting up THEN they'll be a fight...
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Perhaps FIFA will force them to change the name of their country?
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Obviously to give England a chance of qualifying...Accy would have beaten Montenegro Last night.AlargeClaret wrote:I don’t even know why we have to play these primitive footballing non entities , utter waste of everyone’s time as no matter how well you beat them unless your going up against quality teams you’ll learn very little . Time to reduce the size of the comp
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
So points deductions, games behind closed doors, etc. Nothing wrong with these suggestions. What about the domestic game though? What should Burnley's punishment be for what happened at Brighton? I'm not trolling, it's a genuine question as our own authorities go easy on clubs in this country when there's clear evidence of racism from a minority.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Forced to play as Montepersonofcolour for the rest of the qualifying campaign. That'll teach them to think on.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Not sure how you could police a fair points deduction as punishment, for example Montenegro get 6 points deducted for last night and if say in future racism happens from Italy, England, Spain, France fans etc and these countries get deducted 6 points, the point deduction will hurt these countries a lot more than a Montenegro sized nation as they wouldn't have qualified anyway in all likelihood.hampsteadclaret wrote:
If found guilty, after a proper investigation [which should not drag on] they should have points deducted.
For me simply any fans of a country found to be racist then that country is eliminated from the competition and all results removed.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
All countries have racists some more than others and it's a two way thing.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I shouldn’t have found that as funny as I didthatdberight wrote:Forced to play as Montepersonofcolour for the rest of the qualifying campaign. That'll teach them to think on.
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Er, could Man City, United, Chelski etc not say this about us?AlargeClaret wrote:I don’t even know why we have to play these primitive footballing non entities , utter waste of everyone’s time as no matter how well you beat them unless your going up against quality teams you’ll learn very little . Time to reduce the size of the comp
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I think you’ll find that we can compete far more consistently than Montenegro ( hardly their fault but a tiny nation ) using the above examples . Surely there should be a “ small racist country/ utterly sh1t at football” euros where the likes of Ascension Island , Isle of Man ,Gib,Puffin Island ,Scotland,Montenegro/ ex soviet shitholes can have close competitive football ?Foulthrow wrote:Er, could Man City, United, Chelski etc not say this about us?
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
We've played Montenegro 5 times in the past 10 years and only beaten them twice.AlargeClaret wrote:I think you’ll find that we can compete far more consistently than Montenegro ( hardly their fault but a tiny nation ) using the above examples . Surely there should be a “ small racist country/ utterly sh1t at football” euros where the likes of Ascension Island , Isle of Man ,Gib,Puffin Island ,Scotland,Montenegro/ ex soviet shitholes can have close competitive football ?
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Racism seems always to occur in Eastern Europe. The penalty ought to be to ban them. But it wont happen.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
The current punishments for racist abuse are shamefully pathetic. The chances are, Montenegro will face a fine of around £44,000 and will be forced to play a game behind closed doors.
Quite simply, the authorities are not tackling this issue sufficiently. Before the World Cup last year, Russia were fined £22,000 by FIFA for racist abuse during a warm up game against France. To put that into context, UEFA fined Besiktas circa £30,000 for the heinous crime of allowing a cat to wander onto the field of play.
Until countries are thrown out of competitions for this disgusting behaviour and proper sanctions are imposed, then this will just continue. Punishment should also include education so this abhorrent ignorance is addressed.
To hear the Montenegran manager try and claim ignorance of the matter after the match heaped yet more shame on the whole sorry incident and any sympathy I may have had for strong sanctions affecting innocent players and staff of Montenegro evaporated in that moment.
If this is swept under the carpet again with a spineless punishment then I really will despair.
Quite simply, the authorities are not tackling this issue sufficiently. Before the World Cup last year, Russia were fined £22,000 by FIFA for racist abuse during a warm up game against France. To put that into context, UEFA fined Besiktas circa £30,000 for the heinous crime of allowing a cat to wander onto the field of play.
Until countries are thrown out of competitions for this disgusting behaviour and proper sanctions are imposed, then this will just continue. Punishment should also include education so this abhorrent ignorance is addressed.
To hear the Montenegran manager try and claim ignorance of the matter after the match heaped yet more shame on the whole sorry incident and any sympathy I may have had for strong sanctions affecting innocent players and staff of Montenegro evaporated in that moment.
If this is swept under the carpet again with a spineless punishment then I really will despair.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Until they gain an Empire (then lose it) and have their lands saturated with Asians (not the oriental ones) and descendants from Africa, then they should play their matches behind closed doors forever.Stayingup wrote:Racism seems always to occur in Eastern Europe. The penalty ought to be to ban them. But it wont happen.
I hope that Danny Rose is getting some counselling right now.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Is Bombing an option?Stayingup wrote:Racism seems always to occur in Eastern Europe. The penalty ought to be to ban them. But it wont happen.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Send the buggers back!AlargeClaret wrote:I don’t even know why we have to play these primitive footballing non entities , utter waste of everyone’s time as no matter how well you beat them unless your going up against quality teams you’ll learn very little . Time to reduce the size of the comp
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Shocking that it happens. But punishing a team / nation because of a few mindless individuals wont resolve the problem nor is it the right action to take IMO.
Should Burnley be punished because some dickhead threw a bottle at Joey Barton? Most of the time they are only using the football as an excuse, they arent even arsed about the result or the impact to the team! Banning or fining the team will have no impact on tose individuals. They wont care.
Its like the coaches to Ewood. The majority have never caused an issue. Yet the majority are the ones who have to get the policed coaches to the game!
Should Burnley be punished because some dickhead threw a bottle at Joey Barton? Most of the time they are only using the football as an excuse, they arent even arsed about the result or the impact to the team! Banning or fining the team will have no impact on tose individuals. They wont care.
Its like the coaches to Ewood. The majority have never caused an issue. Yet the majority are the ones who have to get the policed coaches to the game!
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Point one: I'm not sure we will ever 'kick it out', it is human nature I think to criticise and denegrate 'others'. It may even die away to a degree if it wasn't made so much of. It may well be best (although I don't think it will happen) just to leave it because it is virtually impossible to police. I don't in any way agree with what happened but sometimes I think it's just better to brush it off and think of them as idiots.
Point two: It doesn't surprise me in the least that this happened. Some years ago I passed through Montenegro (when it was still part of Yugoslavia). We were on a train from Salonika to Belgrade and passing through this area the train was suddenly filled with hundreds of gypsy-like people who proceeded to climb onto baggage racks and into toilets to sleep. We were virtually trapped in a compartment with an American and a Serb (who actually described them as animals). The American guy went in search of a toilet (which he never found due to people sleeping in them) and came back saying he had witnessed people being robbed of money and passports as they slept. The Serb (who spoke perfect English and who it transpired was a very intelligent civil servant returning from holiday) considered these people less than human, which lead me to understand the hatred behind the civil war there some years later. It was a scary experience considering we were on the train for upwards of 12 hours but thankfully our 'visitors' got off before we did.
Now I'm sure that Montenegro is full of very nice decent people (it is certainly a beautiful country) but my only experience of being among them was one I wouldn't wish to repeat.
Point two: It doesn't surprise me in the least that this happened. Some years ago I passed through Montenegro (when it was still part of Yugoslavia). We were on a train from Salonika to Belgrade and passing through this area the train was suddenly filled with hundreds of gypsy-like people who proceeded to climb onto baggage racks and into toilets to sleep. We were virtually trapped in a compartment with an American and a Serb (who actually described them as animals). The American guy went in search of a toilet (which he never found due to people sleeping in them) and came back saying he had witnessed people being robbed of money and passports as they slept. The Serb (who spoke perfect English and who it transpired was a very intelligent civil servant returning from holiday) considered these people less than human, which lead me to understand the hatred behind the civil war there some years later. It was a scary experience considering we were on the train for upwards of 12 hours but thankfully our 'visitors' got off before we did.
Now I'm sure that Montenegro is full of very nice decent people (it is certainly a beautiful country) but my only experience of being among them was one I wouldn't wish to repeat.
Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Hard to believe this happens in a part of the world that suffered so much from some of the worse ethnic’ cleansing’ since WW2. The culprits should be publicly named and shamed. What would they think about someone from Norway chanting at them because they have slightly olive skin colour. It’s pathetic and weak. Who gives one.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
You can only go off your own experiences. And there are plenty of places I have been that came recommended that I wouldn't rush back to. And vice versa. Heard similar about Serbia, Montenegro etc before I went. Can honestly say of all the places I have been I love this region the most. The best people I have ever met in my case. Hospitable beyond belief. I have been to these countries more than anywhere else as a result.houseboy wrote:Point one: I'm not sure we will ever 'kick it out', it is human nature I think to criticise and denegrate 'others'. It may even die away to a degree if it wasn't made so much of. It may well be best (although I don't think it will happen) just to leave it because it is virtually impossible to police. I don't in any way agree with what happened but sometimes I think it's just better to brush it off and think of them as idiots.
Point two: It doesn't surprise me in the least that this happened. Some years ago I passed through Montenegro (when it was still part of Yugoslavia). We were on a train from Salonika to Belgrade and passing through this area the train was suddenly filled with hundreds of gypsy-like people who proceeded to climb onto baggage racks and into toilets to sleep. We were virtually trapped in a compartment with an American and a Serb (who actually described them as animals). The American guy went in search of a toilet (which he never found due to people sleeping in them) and came back saying he had witnessed people being robbed of money and passports as they slept. The Serb (who spoke perfect English and who it transpired was a very intelligent civil servant returning from holiday) considered these people less than human, which lead me to understand the hatred behind the civil war there some years later. It was a scary experience considering we were on the train for upwards of 12 hours but thankfully our 'visitors' got off before we did.
Now I'm sure that Montenegro is full of very nice decent people (it is certainly a beautiful country) but my only experience of being among them was one I wouldn't wish to repeat.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Those don't sound like Montenegrins/ Serbs in my experience.houseboy wrote:Now I'm sure that Montenegro is full of very nice decent people (it is certainly a beautiful country) but my only experience of being among them was one I wouldn't wish to repeat.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
As I said it was a limited experience and I think they were gypsies of some kind. I can't comment about Montenegrans in general because unfortunately my only experience was with the people on the train. I think the other thing was the attitude of the Serb who, as I said, seemed to regard these people as subhuman. The war there caused me great sadness because it happened that we stayed with a woman and her daughter for a while in their apartment in Sarajevo, which was of course at the cventre of much of the attrocities. I often wonder what happened to them but alas I will never know.thatdberight wrote:Those don't sound like Montenegrins/ Serbs in my experience.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
In my experience when I was there, the people many Serbs (and the Montenegrins who identify as/with Serbs) regarded in that light were Albanians, Roma and Muslims (and immigrants making their way across the Balkans). "The West" didn't rank much higher in their view but it was a different kind of dislike.houseboy wrote:As I said it was a limited experience and I think they were gypsies of some kind. I can't comment about Montenegrans in general because unfortunately my only experience was with the people on the train. I think the other thing was the attitude of the Serb who, as I said, seemed to regard these people as subhuman. The war there caused me great sadness because it happened that we stayed with a woman and her daughter for a while in their apartment in Sarajevo, which was of course at the cventre of much of the attrocities. I often wonder what happened to them but alas I will never know.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Only some Montenegrins identify as serbs. Most don't. Although in the main its amicable.thatdberight wrote:In my experience when I was there, the people many Serbs (and the Montenegrins who identify as/with Serbs) regarded in that light were Albanians, Roma and Muslims (and immigrants making their way across the Balkans). "The West" didn't rank much higher in their view but it was a different kind of dislike.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
It was an odd country, Yugoslavia, made up it seemed of a whole variety of peoples, many of whom didn't like or trust each other. It was a minor miracle it was a country at all (which of course it subsequently ceased to be). The people on the train were possibly Romanies which may have been the cause of the Serbs dislike.thatdberight wrote:In my experience when I was there, the people many Serbs (and the Montenegrins who identify as/with Serbs) regarded in that light were Albanians, Roma and Muslims (and immigrants making their way across the Balkans). "The West" didn't rank much higher in their view but it was a different kind of dislike.
Memories of the country:
It was beautiful.
On arriving in Belgarde at about 7.30 in the morning we discovered people seemingly breakfasting on beer and a kind of beefburger thing (which we did eventually try and they were delicious).
Sarajevo really was one of the most beautiful cities I've been to.
Finding anyone who spoke English was like trying to find rocking horse sh!t. The main foreign languages seemed to be German (of which I know nothing) or Italian (which I can get by with as long as no-one actually wants a proper conversation).
I got very, very drunk on a campsite with an Austrian who introduced me to a white liquid (not vodka) that took a layer of skin off your throat and allowed me to think I could speak Serbo-Croat.
Happy days.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I've only visited since it was split up. It was a real mix of experiences from Slovenia (just as nice as Northern Italy but a fraction of the price) to unlovely Podgorica which I didn't get at all. I liked Belgrade but not Zagreb; adored Skopje - I visited since it started its mental statue building program. Of course, you only get a brief glimpse of places but I'd visit any of them again.houseboy wrote:It was an odd country, Yugoslavia, made up it seemed of a whole variety of peoples, many of whom didn't like or trust each other. It was a minor miracle it was a country at all (which of course it subsequently ceased to be). The people on the train were possibly Romanies which may have been the cause of the Serbs dislike.
Memories of the country:
It was beautiful.
On arriving in Belgarde at about 7.30 in the morning we discovered people seemingly breakfasting on beer and a kind of beefburger thing (which we did eventually try and they were delicious).
Sarajevo really was one of the most beautiful cities I've been to.
Finding anyone who spoke English was like trying to find rocking horse sh!t. The main foreign languages seemed to be German (of which I know nothing) or Italian (which I can get by with as long as no-one actually wants a proper conversation).
I got very, very drunk on a campsite with an Austrian who introduced me to a white liquid (not vodka) that took a layer of skin off your throat and allowed me to think I could speak Serbo-Croat.
Happy days.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
I mean, this could be a post ironically painting a whole area based on a few examples, but what would i know?Stayingup wrote:Racism seems always to occur in Eastern Europe. The penalty ought to be to ban them. But it wont happen.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
The answer has to be to keep identifying the spectators who are being rascist and ban them for life...CCTV technology is availabe to do this.Yes fine the club or country by all means if they are not seen to be taking action against the perpetrators.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
That would be Rakija.houseboy wrote:
I got very, very drunk on a campsite with an Austrian who introduced me to a white liquid (not vodka) that took a layer of skin off your throat and allowed me to think I could speak Serbo-Croat.
Happy days.
Always does the job. Best i had was homemade in belgrade. More often than not you wont pay. They insist especially if homemade.
Picked this bottle up in Kosovo. Saving it for a special occasion in fact one of my mates is over from montenegro next week...
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Im in a minority but I loved Podgorica. Not a beautiful city, especially by Balkans standards. But some great bars, restaurants and people.thatdberight wrote:I've only visited since it was split up. It was a real mix of experiences from Slovenia (just as nice as Northern Italy but a fraction of the price) to unlovely Podgorica which I didn't get at all. I liked Belgrade but not Zagreb; adored Skopje - I visited since it started its mental statue building program. Of course, you only get a brief glimpse of places but I'd visit any of them again.
Skopje i loved too but many I know dont.
Belgrades one of the best cities in the world. Absolutely love it. For similar reasons to podgorica over anything else. There are actually more beautiful cities (Novi Sad for example) and theres a lot of investment now down by the river.
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Cheers CFC (literally). That sounds about right and now you come to mention it I don't recall actually paying for any of it. I do remember it was possibly the most drunk I have ever been in my life. I'd been drinking cheap (very cheap) Yugoslav beer before I got talking to this Austrian guy and he suggested it. I walked back to my tent (don't know how I found it) and woke up the following morning with my head out the door surround by vomit (nice). Somehow amongst all of this I managed to exchange addresses with the guy on this one and only time I met him and we exchanged letters for a good few years - he became a doctor. Funny thing life ain't it?cricketfieldclarets wrote:That would be Rakija.
Always does the job. Best i had was homemade in belgrade. More often than not you wont pay. They insist especially if homemade.
Picked this bottle up in Kosovo. Saving it for a special occasion in fact one of my mates is over from montenegro next week...
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Re: UEFA charge Montenegro
Powerful stuff especially the homemade plum rakija. That bottle of mine is from a shop so probably wont be as good. But at 49percent will help me sleep no doubthouseboy wrote:Cheers CFC (literally). That sounds about right and now you come to mention it I don't recall actually paying for any of it. I do remember it was possibly the most drunk I have ever been in my life. I'd been drinking cheap (very cheap) Yugoslav beer before I got talking to this Austrian guy and he suggested it. I walked back to my tent (don't know how I found it) and woke up the following morning with my head out the door surround by vomit (nice). Somehow amongst all of this I managed to exchange addresses with the guy on this one and only time I met him and we exchanged letters for a good few years - he became a doctor. Funny thing life ain't it?
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