Handing in Knives without punishment

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JimMcDonald
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Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by JimMcDonald » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:18 pm

I see that police stations around the country including Burnley have boxes where people can hand in knives and not face any punishment.

Scenario- What if someone was on the way to hand one in and got stopped and searched whilst on the way ? Would the police believe it ?

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:29 pm

Maybe depends on the circumstances of the stop and search. If it's based on suspicion of committing knife related crimes in the past then they probably wouldn't believe it. If it's because they suspect you have in your possession a spliff then maybe they'll give you the benefit of the doubt, while escorting you to the knife bank.

theroyaldyche
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by theroyaldyche » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:57 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:I see that police stations around the country including Burnley have boxes where people can hand in knives and not face any punishment.

Scenario- What if someone was on the way to hand one in and got stopped and searched whilst on the way ? Would the police believe it ?
I wouldnt worry yourself too much.

claret59
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by claret59 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:01 pm

A more worrying scenario is where a knife has been used in a violent crime and then the weapon is disposed of by the Police.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:39 pm

claret59 wrote:A more worrying scenario is where a knife has been used in a violent crime and then the weapon is disposed of by the Police.
I'd be surprised if the knives handed in aren't thoroughly tested for DNA in much the same way i assume when guns are handed in in the US that the firearm is tested and a ballistic signature is collected to match against ongoing or unsolved cases.

And of course if no DNA can be found that matches a crime then the knife wouldn't have been discovered as being used in the commission of a crime in the first place anyway.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:46 pm

claret59 wrote:A more worrying scenario is where a knife has been used in a violent crime and then the weapon is disposed of by the Police.
They had an amnesty over 20 years ago and they said any weapon handed in wouldn't be used in a prosecution if I remember rightly.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/poli ... 25322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd be surprised if the knives handed in aren't thoroughly tested for DNA in much the same way i assume when guns are handed in in the US that the firearm is tested and a ballistic signature is collected to match against ongoing or unsolved cases.

And of course if no DNA can be found that matches a crime then the knife wouldn't have been discovered as being used in the commission of a crime in the first place anyway.
Knives found in the street, or handed in by the public, aren’t tested for DNA as a matter or routine. Imagine how many knives are collected or deposited. It’s not feasible.

I collected one in Woolwich this week. I’ll search the crime reporting system to see if the knife can be linked to any offences, through the location it was found and a description of the knife, but apart from that, it will just get destroyed.

Edit- if it can be linked or there does appear to be blood present, then yes, it will be sent to the lab.
Last edited by TsarBomba on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aclaret
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Aclaret » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:12 pm

Why the need to hand a knife in to the police ? Why not just put it back in the kitchen drawer where it belongs !
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bobinho
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by bobinho » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:15 pm

TsarBomba wrote:Knives found in the street, or handed in by the public, aren’t tested for DNA.

I collected one in Woolwich this week. I’ll search the crime reporting system to see if the knife can be linked to any offences, through the location it was found and a description of the knife, but apart from that, it will just get destroyed.
Despite the possibility that this particular knife COULD have been used in a serious crime/murder, it would still be disposed of even though there could be forensic evidence available that could lead to a prosecution for a particular crime somewhere?

I find that bizarre.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:17 pm

The average IQ of someone carrying a knife must be below 100. So I'm not sure thinking of ways to collect these knives is going to work overall. Depends on the results of the trial, though.
Last edited by FactualFrank on Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TsarBomba
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:27 pm

bobinho wrote:Despite the possibility that this particular knife COULD have been used in a serious crime/murder, it would still be disposed of even though there could be forensic evidence available that could lead to a prosecution for a particular crime somewhere?

I find that bizarre.
I edited my previous post.

Could isn’t enough.

A lot of gang members store their weapons around their territory for ease of access. There’s thousands of weapons out on the streets, and a lot of them have been forgotten and have rusted away, and it’s quite often these we come across.

The knife I recovered this week was a purple bread knife. No-one is getting stabbed with a bread knife.

I’m not a scenes of crime officer, but I know a little bit about forensics. It doesn’t take long for a knife left out in the open, if it has been used to stab someone, to lose its forensic value.

bobinho
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by bobinho » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:35 pm

I have a bread knife in my kitchen that I could end you with in moments if I stabbed you with it. If you and I had a barney and you had it in your hand I’d be in trouble for sure.

Butter knife? Yeah, I get that isn’t really a weapon. Bread knife? You’re in trouble if the bearer means it.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TsarBomba » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:43 pm

bobinho wrote:I have a bread knife in my kitchen that I could end you with in moments if I stabbed you with it. If you and I had a barney and you had it in your hand I’d be in trouble for sure.

Butter knife? Yeah, I get that isn’t really a weapon. Bread knife? You’re in trouble if the bearer means it.
Bread knives aren’t used to stab people.

They are hard to conceal on your person, and the blade isn’t correct. In 12 years, I’ve never known a bread knife to have been used. I get that one could be used, much like a pavement slab. And I’ve never known someone to walk around with a pavement slab.

Bicycle spokes in the a*se were common a while ago. They left a small puncture hole that bled profusely and caused massive internal damage.

But bread knives? No.

Bosscat
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Bosscat » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm

bobinho wrote:I have a bread knife in my kitchen that I could end you with in moments if I stabbed you with it. If you and I had a barney and you had it in your hand I’d be in trouble for sure.

Butter knife? Yeah, I get that isn’t really a weapon. Bread knife? You’re in trouble if the bearer means it.
A butter knife was a lethal weapon in "Wild Card"
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Vintage Claret
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Vintage Claret » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:09 pm

IMO, if you are caught in possession of a knife in public without legitimate reason it should be 5 years in jail, go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

What kind of moron carries a knife or any other offensive weapon around with them on a day/ night out if they don't intend to use it to harm someone at some point?

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:10 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:IMO, if you are caught in possession of a knife in public without legitimate reason it should be 5 years in jail, go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

What kind of moron carries a knife or any other offensive weapon around with them on a day/ night out if they don't intend to use it to harm someone at some point?
You'll need to up the prison terms for guns then.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:11 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:IMO, if you are caught in possession of a knife in public without legitimate reason it should be 5 years in jail, go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

What kind of moron carries a knife or any other offensive weapon around with them on a day/ night out if they don't intend to use it to harm someone at some point?
I agree.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Vintage Claret » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:49 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You'll need to up the prison terms for guns then.
Agreed.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:36 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Maybe depends on the circumstances of the stop and search. If it's based on suspicion of committing knife related crimes in the past then they probably wouldn't believe it. If it's because they suspect you have in your possession a spliff then maybe they'll give you the benefit of the doubt, while escorting you to the knife bank.
Somebody in the "possession of a spliff" would be unlikely to be carrying a blade in the first place, all the weed smokers i know or people I've come across in the past are pacifists.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:44 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Maybe depends on the circumstances of the stop and search. If it's based on suspicion of committing knife related crimes in the past then they probably wouldn't believe it. If it's because they suspect you have in your possession a spliff then maybe they'll give you the benefit of the doubt, while escorting you to the knife bank.
Absolutely amazed at combining knife crime with a cannabis connection, as far apart as egg & chips & a Indian madras in a food analogy.

Spiral
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Spiral » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:50 am

He's definitely a contender. Taylor and McNeil though, for me. Both have been a revelation this season, but McNeil has almost single single-handedly kept us out of the relegation zone.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Spiral » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:52 am

f.uck sake wrong thrread

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:55 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Absolutely amazed at combining knife crime with a cannabis connection, as far apart as egg & chips & a Indian madras in a food analogy.
If you dont' understand the point being made then instead of criticising it, ask them to explain it to you. Otherwise when you criticise the point and are wrong about what you think the point is then you look like an idiot.

I wasn't connecting drugs with knife crime. I was saying if you were searched for some other reason than being suspected of carrying a knife, and then they found a knife, they might give you the benefit of the doubt. The example I used was a spliff. I could just as easily have used "a fake tenner", or "unlicensed memes" and i still wouldn't be connecting them with knife crime.

Jakubclaret
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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:00 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:If you dont' understand the point being made then instead of criticising it, ask them to explain it to you. Otherwise when you criticise the point and are wrong about what you think the point is then you look like an idiot.

I wasn't connecting drugs with knife crime. I was saying if you were searched for some other reason than being suspected of carrying a knife, and then they found a knife, they might give you the benefit of the doubt. The example I used was a spliff. I could just as easily have used "a fake tenner", or "unlicensed memes" and i still wouldn't be connecting them with knife crime.
“While escorting you to the knife bank” it’s as good as saying somebody with a spliff would also be likely to be a carrying a knife also, you might not smoke cannabis but people under the influence are more likely to hug you than stab you.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:23 am

Jakubclaret wrote:“While escorting you to the knife bank”...
*facepalm*

...after they've found the knife. This whole discussion is about how police would react if they found a knife on you as you were going to the knife bank.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:31 am

They should at least investigate why these people felt the need to carry knives in the first place. Again anonymously. Address the root cause...

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:31 am

Spiral wrote:He's definitely a contender. Taylor and McNeil though, for me. Both have been a revelation this season, but McNeil has almost single single-handedly kept us out of the relegation zone.
I agree. Hes been sharp as a dagger.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:38 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:*facepalm*

...after they've found the knife. This whole discussion is about how police would react if they found a knife on you as you were going to the knife bank.
& also a scenario of cannabis being in possession combining the 2 things together & the outcome resulting in - Escorting the aforesaid to the knife bank in conjunction with each other, your words not mine.
The only logical conclusion to be reached is that you think the 2 things could be connected & the probability of a idea that cannabis users are complicit with knife crime.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:08 am

When is there a spade amnesty?

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TsarBomba » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:15 am

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a time when a law abiding MOP has walked into the station with a knife. 9/10 they will call 101 to say they have discovered a knife, but then just leave it where it is. The MOP may take it indoors if they’ve found it in their garden or along their boundary, but that’s it.

There are legal defences for carrying a knife, but generally, if you’re carrying one on the street, you’re coming in. If you’re a workman driving a van and you get stopped, and found to have a knife or off wep in the door pocket or in easy reach, then you may also be coming in. Depends on the circumstances of your stop.

If it is a good Samaritan bringing in a knife to a station, then they’re quite easy to differentiate from a gang nominal out peddling drugs and using a knife for protection.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:53 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:& also a scenario of cannabis being in possession combining the 2 things together & the outcome resulting in - Escorting the aforesaid to the knife bank in conjunction with each other, your words not mine.
The only logical conclusion to be reached is that you think the 2 things could be connected & the probability of a idea that cannabis users are complicit with knife crime.
You win the stupid Olympics. Well done. Gold medal performance.

I've tried to correct you and you are steadfastly refusing to understand that you are wrong.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You win the stupid Olympics. Well done. Gold medal performance.

I've tried to correct you and you are steadfastly refusing to understand that you are wrong.
Just picked up on your post & felt the need to explain that there isn’t a correlation between cannabis & knife crime, the 2 don’t go together, you subconsciously implied that was the case with the comment “while escorting you to the knife bank” somebody in the possession of cannabis would not need escorting to any knife bank, why would they? Unless of course that their could be carrying a knife. Just remember these are your words, generally speaking cannabis is a drug of peace.

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Re: Handing in Knives without punishment

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:19 pm

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