I think we will stay up now ... it’s obviously our spot in the prem to lose after this weekends results especially.

Will the season have been a success in your opinion?

- We have posted huge (for Burnley) profits
- Not had to spend money in the Jan window which is always over priced.
- We could still finish around 13th with a couple of wins in the next few games.
- Our youth system seems to finally be clicking.
- McNeill has come through to the first team.
- We will be seeing out contracts of a few of the old guard which should (hopefully) free up funds for younger players.

These are just a few points which could point to us constantly moving in the right direction.

The table is actually a lot tighter than it looks and Cardiff could with a few unexpected wins finish 13th or 18th. If we finish 13th this season - would we have done much better if we had spent on 3/4 players?

Obviously our Europa run wasn’t what everyone had hoped, we’ve signed players recently who were questionable ..... but overall I think we’re not far off what anybody could have expected from us positional wise this season.

I do though think next season will be the big one for us.... we will be financially better off and should hopefully have plans in place to strengthen and get some younger players in whilst picking up a few extra quid for those leaving the club. It is getting to the point where a massive overhaul is happening which will actually surprise a few people who bang on about it being needed ASAP, as these sort of changes for a club, unless managed over a period of time with a clear plan in place can be catastrophic.

Any season when we stay in the PL is a successful season.

Overall the club is trying to make improvements, Inc the appointment of Mike Rigg, the disabled section and the emergence of McNeil.

Whilst we struggled for a large portion of the season, and if we can stay up overall it can be called a success but mainly due to off the pitch things.
The club is again financially stable, we didn't press the panic button by firing Dyche and hopefully we can carry on improving overall.

Putting the money earned into other areas and constantly improving things off the pitch whilst maintaining our prem status can only be good.

Jus need to build on the squad now and ship out the deadweights

If we'd have had half the luck we got last season, especially with last minute goals conceded this time round, we'd be safe by now and with more luck we'd be above Wolves, that's how tight it is. As the gaffer always says "fine margins".

Every season, we will be amongst the favourites to go down because of our budget and our size.

That will not change.

So just want to echo Tall Pauls post above. Every season we survive is a good season.

Yes it will be a success on the pitch without doubt. Some would say a miracle after Boxing day.

Retaining sponsors, ST holders and corporate will be another area we will have to judge.

Quickenthetempo wrote: Retaining sponsors, ST holders and corporate will be another area we will have to judge.

Sponsors IMO will obviously drop a little bit not massively as Europa and our shock finish last season would have attracted a few. We’re never going to have an official mattress sponsor like United do tbf.

ST would be a big one to gauge it on though as no matter what people say about the football etc, that rush you get when the ball hits the net as it did at the weekend is addictive and generally over rules the impulsive thoughts of “I hate this”.

Tall Paul wrote:Any season when we stay in the PL is a successful season.

Aah Paul, as ambitious as ever I see.

When we finished 7th last season I was really concerned it would get us relegated.
At Christmas I was convinced we were down, then we played really well and had a good run, post Spurs I thought we had saved ourselves.
Then pre Wolves, I thought we were doomed again.

Being a Burnley fan eh.

If we stay up it’s absolutely a good season.

We need additional players in the summer, at least 3.

houseboy wrote:Aah Paul, as realistic as ever I see.

Fixed.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Every season, we will be amongst the favourites to go down because of our budget and our size.

That will not change.

So just want to echo Tall Pauls post above. Every season we survive is a good season.

Would you not rather be winning games with enjoyable football in the Championship? Just a question because I think so many people forget that football is a game, an entertainment, so surely when you pay your money you would prefer entertainment to the ego-pride of PL football at all costs? I ask this as it interests me as to how people think, I'm not being critical, just genuinely wondering why so many are prepared to put up with an annual struggle, playing over cautious football and 'throwing' cup games just to survive in a league we are never, under current circumstances, going to win. If you look at the table there is now a 16 point gap between the so-called big six and the rest, surely I'm not the only one who finds that depressing in the extreme in footballing terms?

I want us to be in the top division, of course I do, but I can't help feeling that eventually many will get bored with the annual struggle and slowly start to disappear. People are starting to talk about our 'success' because we have money, that seems to me a substitute for success in the way some clubs supporters cling to their massive support despite struggling in the Championship or below. There is one measure of success in sport and that is ACHIEVEMENT, what many of our fans are clinging to seems to be like a pro-sportsman who always finishes last but then points to his bank account and says 'I might be crap but look at my bank balance.' Yes there is an element of achievement in surviving in the PL for us but when that's ALL there is it makes me wonder.

houseboy wrote:Aah Paul, as ambitious as ever I see.

Bit confusing that, you claim he is being unambitious with that comment yet you big up wanting to be in championship. How many games a season do you go to as you have already said previously you don't attend much. Easier to say things like win a cup and go down if you rarely attend.

Surely, houseboy, the aim is to play at the highest level possible? If we got relegated then won the Championship title should we say "we won't take the promotion as it's a bit tough in the PL?" It is tough in the PL and, as you say, the top 6 are pretty much untouchable but, as we showed last season, we can reach unbelievable highs. If we stop up this season it will be deemed another success. It's just the reality of this league but, hell, I want us to be in it to keep trying to build to the next level, whether that's regularly finishing 15th or stumbling in to 7th!

What many here fail to realise is that any time our club is doing better than top half of League one we are overachieving - history notwithstanding. we are a very small and poor town in football terms.

You should also realise that while you talk about having a punt and risking the consequences - that probably equates to around 50 jobs at the club and at least as many in the town (I suspect many more). You might not care about those people but many do. For those people and the general prosperity of the town, every season we survive is most definitely an achievement and long may it continue in the astute sustainable way it has.

And before you reply I do want to see attractive and entertaining football and we have a team that can do that and has done (though not as often as we would like) this season. We are evolving while also developing players (no one in our squad is the finished article) and I love that we continue to fight so well in those circumstances - (just look how Taylor, Westwood and Dwight even Bardsley have come on this season when many had written 3 of them off)

houseboy wrote:Would you not rather be winning games with enjoyable football in the Championship? Just a question because I think so many people forget that football is a game, an entertainment, so surely when you pay your money you would prefer entertainment to the ego-pride of PL football at all costs? I ask this as it interests me as to how people think, I'm not being critical, just genuinely wondering why so many are prepared to put up with an annual struggle, playing over cautious football and 'throwing' cup games just to survive in a league we are never, under current circumstances, going to win. If you look at the table there is now a 16 point gap between the so-called big six and the rest, surely I'm not the only one who finds that depressing in the extreme in footballing terms?

I want us to be in the top division, of course I do, but I can't help feeling that eventually many will get bored with the annual struggle and slowly start to disappear. People are starting to talk about our 'success' because we have money, that seems to me a substitute for success in the way some clubs supporters cling to their massive support despite struggling in the Championship or below. There is one measure of success in sport and that is ACHIEVEMENT, what many of our fans are clinging to seems to be like a pro-sportsman who always finishes last but then points to his bank account and says 'I might be crap but look at my bank balance.' Yes there is an element of achievement in surviving in the PL for us but when that's ALL there is it makes me wonder.

But it could be argued that we have pretty much won the top division as much as the second division as a club. So going down doesn’t guarantee excitement and walloping teams every week (even if we did wallop teams, even the Etihad has loads of empty seats).

I think this links back to a post I made about my nephew being bored of the football recently - there will be a divide between expectations and also what people find enjoyable. In some ways for me, scraping out another season in the prem is as entertaining as a season in the championship which has more entertainment for a fan of football for a club like us no doubt. Then every few years, just like in the Championship we will have that special season and instead of the play offs/promotion, the reward will be Europe. The joy being that if everything does go t|ts up, we end up in the championship and not League 1.

I wouldn’t mind going down though as I enjoy both sides of the game, whether we’re totting up the excitement of how many wins we need to stay safe or how many we need to secure promotion.

House lad....

houseboy wrote:Aah Paul, as ambitious as ever I see.

Since the start of the Premier League there have been

6 Winners of the League

Manure 13 times
Chelsea 5
Arsenil 3
Man Citeh 3
Leicester 1
B'stards 1

Only 4 of the top 6 ever won it.... of the other 2 both have won a cup also

.......

8 different FA Cup winners
Arsenil 9
Chelsea 7
Manure 4
Liverpool 2
Man Citeh 1
Wigan 1
Portsmouth 1
Everton 1
(only 3 out side the top 6)

League Cup 12 different winners (inc 2019)
Man Citeh 4
Manure 4
Chelsea 4
Liverpool 4
Tottenham 2
Villa 2
Leicester 2
Arsenil 1
B'stards 1
Swansea 1
Birmingham 1
Boro 1
(6 outside the top 6)

In that 26 year period 49 different sides have featured in the Premier League, so outside the top 6 only 9 different sides have win a cup.....

53 Cups in total and only 9 clubs outside the top 6 have won a cup (11 cups in total).........

So out of the 49 clubs who have played in the Premier League 34 have NO ambition by your logic m8

..we'd have done very well especially given
we looked almost down and out after the Everton game
when we were down in the bottom three and 3 or more points behind the likes of Cardiff.
And 10 behind Brighton.

Since then we've picked up 21 points in 13 games and that's with 4 straight defeats.
A pretty good return.

So hopefully we stay up and build on that. That probably means bringing two or three
quality players in assuming we don't lose any of our first 11. And probably releasing or moving on 4 or 5.

We just have to get the transfer policy right this time and try and improve the first team.
If we can even if it's only by a small amount/percentage then we should be in with a
good chance of continuing playing our football at the top level.

It's probably going to be even more difficult next season as the teams likely to come up
may be a notch up and better than those that came up last season.
There's not likely to be another Huddersfield.

Can you imagine being in this situation (ie. 3rd season in the top league) 5 or more years ago?

jurek wrote:Can you imagine being in this situation (ie. 3rd season in the top league) 5 or more years ago?

Imagine if anyone had said on the day SD took over that we'd be playing European football within six years!

or beating Spurs ....and winning out first game at Chelsea last year,
....beating Liverpool 2-0 with less than 30% possession!

....and almost beating United twice at Old Trafford!

I'm sure there are other moments and games others can recall too.

So if we do stay up there still be lots of good memories.

I'm grateful for that as I never ever expected us to even get back up into the Premiership.
Just to put it into perspective I've been supporting Burnley for over 50 years
and even though those first years were fantastic (when we were one of the top teams)
I do recall our demise and fall down the tables over two decades to the point when we were almost relegated
to the Conference and were getting just a few thousand on at the Turf.

And now we can discuss what we might do if we stay up for a fourth year running.

Yeah "IF" you say.

If not, all that goes out the window... and we've got enough money to cover our PL shortfall for a year. And that's it.

Have we progressed? No. Therefore it cant be seen as a success.

Its satisfactory at best.

Success in the fact I will be able to watch us every week again next season

Vegas Claret wrote:Success in the fact I will be able to watch us every week again next season

You've changed your tune. After Cardiff had beaten West Ham & Us having lost to Leicester you seemed certain we were doomed, especially as I kept repeating that we were more than capable of stopping up!

"Oh please Dyche do not go." (Chicago)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh. No. N.O.

Like MOTD on Sunday. They have the Pl teams to get to 90 points and they have this young girl in thrall music, instead of the sound of the roar of the stands. Diabolic spoon-feeding of sh*t to every boy and man watching.

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Have we progressed? No. Therefore it cant be seen as a success.

Its satisfactory at best.

Seriously?? Is that you talking ******** James

Spijed wrote:You've changed your tune. After Cardiff had beaten West Ham & Us having lost to Leicester you seemed certain we were doomed, especially as I kept repeating that we were more than capable of stopping up!

I've not changed any tune, I've only stated I will be able to carry on watching us !!

IF we stay up, for me its a bigger achievement than 7th last season. Simply because we failed to invest and the quality of teams in the bottom half is stronger than last year. Palace, Saints, Newcastle and Brighton-all languishing at the bottom are good teams, with some great individual players

IF we stay up, we will have got away with it. Next year I suspect Leeds if they go up could easily do what Wolves have done this year. They are exciting. Suspect at least one of the promoted clubs will go straight down. It means the cluster of poorer sides at the bottom is decreasing.

Hopefully we have learned our lesson. There are good players in the Championship (for me forget looking abroad-yes these guys may be better value) but we are not set up to find gems abroad-and can these guys settle at a club like ours where we demand so much from our manager ??
Charlie Taylor proves this point, as does Robertson of Liverpool and Madison of Leicester.

Also a good time for a clear-out such as Ward,Long,Crouch, De Four (cant see him ever being fit), Hart and maybe even Brady if we get the right money

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Have we progressed? No. Therefore it cant be seen as a success.

Its satisfactory at best.

1. The idea that finishing 7th would not have been success? I disagree.
2. Satisfactory is a good thing. Satisfactory is success.

jurek wrote:or beating Spurs ....and winning out first game at Chelsea last year,
....beating Liverpool 2-0 with less than 30% possession!

....and almost beating United twice at Old Trafford!

I'm sure there are other moments and games others can recall too.

So if we do stay up there still be lots of good memories.

I'm grateful for that as I never ever expected us to even get back up into the Premiership.
Just to put it into perspective I've been supporting Burnley for over 50 years
and even though those first years were fantastic (when we were one of the top teams)
I do recall our demise and fall down the tables over two decades to the point when we were almost relegated
to the Conference and were getting just a few thousand on at the Turf.

And now we can discuss what we might do if we stay up for a fourth year running.

Hi jurek, you've missed Burnley 1-0 ManU - our very first HOME game in the Premier League. A Robbie Blake wonder strike. And, Carrick missed a pen.

And, all the results we got to finish 7th last season.

Yes, I've also been going on t'Turf from a little over 50 years back. Being in the Premier League is a big thrill every game. Getting to the end of the season and knowing we will be doing the same again next season is what it's all about.

And, maybe when we've had a run of 10 seasons in the Premier League, maybe, just maybe, we will have a cup run - and get knocked out in the semi-final...

Come on you Clarets!

EDIT: HOME game....(Thanks for the reminder, BFCmaj).

bfccrazy wrote:I think we will stay up now ... it’s obviously our spot in the prem to lose after this weekends results especially.

Will the season have been a success in your opinion?

- We have posted huge (for Burnley) profits

Hi bfcc, I just wanted to pick you up on this first point. The financial results that have just been posted are not for this season - they are for last season, 2017/18. They aren't a measure of our success this season.

Being in the Premier League again next season is all the evidence we need to show that this season has been a success.

UTC

Quickenthetempo wrote: Retaining sponsors...will be another area we will have to judge.

I would be delighted if every gambling associated sponsor at the ground well and truly did one, even though that’d mean inevitably less revenue. The sooner, the better too!

warksclaret wrote:IF we stay up, for me its a bigger achievement than 7th last season. Simply because we failed to invest and the quality of teams in the bottom half is stronger than last year. Palace, Saints, Newcastle and Brighton-all languishing at the bottom are good teams, with some great individual players

There's no evidence to suggest that the strength of teams is any better or worse when you look at the points distribution amongst the teams and where the points are going.

The problem with talk of the ‘next level’ is that it’s unaffordable. Look at the league table of wages and the difference between 7th and 6th, it’s out of any current team’s reach. Staying in the league probably covers over half of the teams and each year a different order will prevail.

Tall Paul wrote:Any season when we stay in the PL is a successful season.

I really object to that mindset I am afraid.

I would accept that “any season where we stay in the PL cannot be a bad season”.

But success has to be a higher bar than that. We are Burnley not Barnsley. Last year was success. This year if we had finished top 10 it would be success. This year if we had got (at least) to Europa group stages it would be a success (or maybe a cup semi final).

This season has been mediocre, not successful.

Words are important, so the board understand our expectations.

Lock this thread after the first response.

Spijed wrote:There's no evidence to suggest that the strength of teams is any better or worse when you look at the points distribution amongst the teams and where the points are going.

I think Dyche has got the most out of what we have given his chosen style of play, now I'm not 100% convinced he wouldn't change the style of play if he had better players at his disposal. So as much as they can, if we stay up I hope the board will give him and Rigg sufficient funds to bring those players in

Paul Waine wrote:Hi jurek, you've missed Burnley 1-0 ManU - our very first game in the Premier League.

Our first game in the Premier League was a 2-0 defeat to Stoke.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 199037.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bfccrazy wrote:Sponsors IMO will obviously drop a little bit not massively as Europa and our shock finish last season would have attracted a few. We’re never going to have an official mattress sponsor like United do tbf.

Been there, done that, got the mattress mate.
https://www.sealy.co.uk/about-sealy/ins ... urnley-fc/

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I really object to that mindset I am afraid.

I would accept that “any season where we stay in the PL cannot be a bad season”.

But success has to be a higher bar than that. We are Burnley not Barnsley. Last year was success. This year if we had finished top 10 it would be success. This year if we had got (at least) to Europa group stages it would be a success (or maybe a cup semi final).

This season has been mediocre, not successful.

Words are important, so the board understand our expectations.

Expectations?
The club qualified for Europe, something you'd think would be considered great news and then people on here were unhappy with that for varying reasons

Outside of the top 6, and Everton, the rest of the PL are simply there to make up the numbers.
The best these clubs can hope for is the occasional trip into Europe through league position, or a trip to Wembley via the cups.
Regularly breaking the strangle hold the top 6 have on the league would require Man City style investment.

Norwich, Leeds, Sheff Utd, West Brom, Villa, Derby, Boro, Forest, Sheff Weds, Hull, Stoke, Swansea, Bstards, QPR, Birmingham, Reading, Wigan, Bolton, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Charlton.

How many of these splashed the cash to try to reach the mythical 'next level'?

How many are currently in the PL?

Truth is the 'next level' doesn't exist. The top 6 spenders will suck up 6 of the 7 European spots almost every season, leaving every else scrabbling around for the other one.

deanothedino wrote:Been there, done that, got the mattress mate.
https://www.sealy.co.uk/about-sealy/ins ... urnley-fc/

I’m ... erm .... so ......

Yeah.

Anyone who leaves because they are fed up of watching us in the Premier League are not real fans.I dont enjoy watching us Backpass and faff about rather than play the ball up with pace but its what it is
I wouldn't change a thing about our success.

CrosspoolClarets wrote:I really object to that mindset I am afraid.

I would accept that “any season where we stay in the PL cannot be a bad season”.

But success has to be a higher bar than that. We are Burnley not Barnsley. Last year was success. This year if we had finished top 10 it would be success. This year if we had got (at least) to Europa group stages it would be a success (or maybe a cup semi final).

This season has been mediocre, not successful.

Words are important, so the board understand our expectations.

I admire in so many ways the sentiment that we should reach for the stars and not settle for anything less. It's a really optimistic world view. But in any field - not just football - I'd say it's a dangerous mistake to overestimate what you can realistically EXPECT to achieve relative to your competitors.

Top 10 finishes are the absolute top of what we can realistically achieve. To say that that is success - and so anything short is some shade of failure - simply isn't realistic to the constraints to which we operate.

Staying up is our principal objective every season - and so achieving that objective is by definition success. Achieving top 10 finishes, qualifying for the group stages of the Europa League, getting to the latter stages of cups - that's not our principal objective, it's a bonus.

BFCmaj wrote:Our first game in the Premier League was a 2-0 defeat to Stoke.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 199037.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Man U was our 1st home game wasn't it

claretspice wrote:I admire in so many ways the sentiment that we should reach for the stars and not settle for anything less. It's a really optimistic world view. But in any field - not just football - I'd say it's a dangerous mistake to overestimate what you can realistically EXPECT to achieve relative to your competitors.

Top 10 finishes are the absolute top of what we can realistically achieve. To say that that is success - and so anything short is some shade of failure - simply isn't realistic to the constraints to which we operate.

Staying up is our principal objective every season - and so achieving that objective is by definition success. Achieving top 10 finishes, qualifying for the group stages of the Europa League, getting to the latter stages of cups - that's not our principal objective, it's a bonus.

Success. Noun. The accomplishment of an aim or purpose.

Think carefully about that definition. If the board think that our aim for the season is to finish 17th, well, I for one have standards higher than that. Not unrealistic. Not foolish. Not naive.

We “aim” for the top 10. If we fall short,and finish 17th, it isn’t a bad season (as I said in my post you quoted from). But it isn’t a successful one.

If I took your general advice with reference to my own career I would have stagnated. Almost everyone I compete with has a middle class upbringing, contacts and money behind them, I had neither and I have had to fight for everything I have. Now I have to take on the “big four” and win tenders as a one man band. Almost impossible with the wrong mindset. The way I do it is to set very high standards for myself and others. I hope, and expect, that Burnley FC do the same.

Bosscat wrote:Man U was our 1st home game wasn't it

Correct

Its fine margins.

We are 9 points off the top half.

If we had been lucky we would have won at Southampton away, United away Watford away, Southampton home. 8 points

And last minute goals v Leicester and Spurs cost us 2 more, I may have missed others

Those 10 points would have us challenging again for 7th

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Bit confusing that, you claim he is being unambitious with that comment yet you big up wanting to be in championship. How many games a season do you go to as you have already said previously you don't attend much. Easier to say things like win a cup and go down if you rarely attend.

I attend as many as I can and that is not for you to judge. Being a fan does not mean giving your whole life and money to it, it is the love of the club. I was a season ticket holder for over 10 years at one time and served my dues, even arranging my first wedding to make sure we were playing away. Don't throw stones when you don't know the target.

Thing is if you set your stall out to finish 16th or 17th every year then there isn't much margin for error and it won't be long till you drop into the bottom 3. Next season will be our 5th out of the last 6 in the Prem, there's no reason why we can't at least have more of a go in the Cups.