If we stay up now ..

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claretonthecoast1882
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 am

houseboy wrote:I attend as many as I can and that is not for you to judge. Being a fan does not mean giving your whole life and money to it, it is the love of the club. I was a season ticket holder for over 10 years at one time and served my dues, even arranging my first wedding to make sure we were playing away. Don't throw stones when you don't know the target.

I get that and agree with you, Not me judging you, just saying if you barely go on it is a lot easier to say I would be happy going down than those who go home and away week in week out and enjoy watching their side compete with the very best.

houseboy
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by houseboy » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:46 am

Bosscat wrote:House lad....



Since the start of the Premier League there have been

6 Winners of the League

Manure 13 times
Chelsea 5
Arsenil 3
Man Citeh 3
Leicester 1
B'stards 1

Only 4 of the top 6 ever won it.... of the other 2 both have won a cup also

.......

8 different FA Cup winners
Arsenil 9
Chelsea 7
Manure 4
Liverpool 2
Man Citeh 1
Wigan 1
Portsmouth 1
Everton 1
(only 3 out side the top 6)

League Cup 12 different winners (inc 2019)
Man Citeh 4
Manure 4
Chelsea 4
Liverpool 4
Tottenham 2
Villa 2
Leicester 2
Arsenil 1
B'stards 1
Swansea 1
Birmingham 1
Boro 1
(6 outside the top 6)

In that 26 year period 49 different sides have featured in the Premier League, so outside the top 6 only 9 different sides have win a cup.....

53 Cups in total and only 9 clubs outside the top 6 have won a cup (11 cups in total).........

So out of the 49 clubs who have played in the Premier League 34 have NO ambition by your logic m8
Hold on there Boss mate - unlike your usual sound logic I think you missed my point slightly. There is a difference between ambition and achievement. If someone is ambitiouos they are striving to achieve to but it doesn't follow that that achievement is realised. There have been many clubs who have approached the PL (maybe wrongly I will concede) in an ambitious way but not made the grade or made it but ultimately failed in the longer term (Fulham are a case in point this season - although it doesn't seem to have done Wolves any harm). To be fair my comment to TallPaul was meant in a bit of a cheeky way, a bit of fun, but it does I suppose bring up the subject of ambition.

Burnley FC have done brilliantly but in order to even stand still there has to be big (ish) investment, it's the way of the PL, at the moment there is no getting away from that and this is true of all business (or most). My accusation of lack of ambition is because the board, for whatever reason and they may well be sound, have under-invested on the field and are now in the position whereby that lack of investment is going to bite us in the backside unless huge investment is made playing catch up. There are people on here saying that we 'aren't that far away' in terms of playing staff for the PL but they seem to be ignoring the fact that we have 2 or 3 seemingly permanently injured players (who coincidentally also happen to be our best players) and one or two who are getting slightly past their best, factor in the possible departures of our good younger players (Tarks/McNeil/Mee) and continuing interest it would appear in Heaton and Pope and you have a potential situation where we may need to buy half a team in the Summer just to stand still.

So there you have it bud - the world according to Houseboy - make of it what you will, but I can forsee a possible situation where the board might have to spend the sort of money they just won't spend to get little or no improvemnt and that is down to pretty much utter failure in recent transfer windows.
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FactualFrank
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by FactualFrank » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:46 am

Not sure why, but this song keeps entering my head every time I read the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32GdEFADy6s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tweak the words and the Bob Lord stand will be sorted for the next few games.

northernpowerhouse
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by northernpowerhouse » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:52 am

Yes it's been a success, but I would say we've been lucky. Huddersfield and Fulham are shite so all we have to do is finish ahead of Cardiff - a team who battered us away and should have won that game. We were so bad during the first half of the season that we probably deserve to go down, and most other seasons would have.

FactualFrank
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by FactualFrank » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:56 am

northernpowerhouse wrote:Yes it's been a success, but I would say we've been lucky. Huddersfield and Fulham are shite so all we have to do is finish ahead of Cardiff - a team who battered us away and should have won that game. We were so bad during the first half of the season that we probably deserve to go down, and most other seasons would have.
That can be easily turned on it's head, though. We beat Spurs and in 2019 have been good enough to stay up.

Spijed
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by Spijed » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:56 am

northernpowerhouse wrote:Yes it's been a success, but I would say we've been lucky. Huddersfield and Fulham are shite so all we have to do is finish ahead of Cardiff - a team who battered us away and should have won that game. We were so bad during the first half of the season that we probably deserve to go down, and most other seasons would have.
The only teams that EVER deserve to go down are the ones that finish in the bottom three. Nothing more, nothing less.

No team that's ever gone down can be considered unlucky. They simply weren't good enough to stay up.

NickBFC
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by NickBFC » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:19 pm

If we stay up then I agree with the OP's points, BUT we have to take this season's warning seriously. Our transfer business, mostly in the summer, was very poor and we've been mega lucky with the emergence of McNeil. If we have another poor summer in the transfer market then we may very well suffer the consequences. It's clearly a massive summer for Sean and Rigg, the squad needs shaking up in several key areas to progress. I feel we aren't far away from becoming a stable mid table side but you have to progress the squad to keep pace. Quality over quantity - we need two or three who are good enough to improve the first 11.

Bosscat
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by Bosscat » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:23 pm

Spijed wrote:The only teams that EVER deserve to go down are the ones that finish in the bottom three. Nothing more, nothing less.

No team that's ever gone down can be considered unlucky. They simply weren't good enough to stay up.
Agreed and Colin (Cardiff) cannot blame Sunday's poor decisions if and when they go down.

Colin has history blaming one match (Sheff Utd) the Wet Spam v Manure game a clear case in point.

Its what happens over a season that defines relegation or Prem status ... NOT one match.

1st half of this season "we deserved nowt" and were relegation contenders.
Since Boxing Day we have pulled up our Claret Socks and changed that.
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claretspice
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Re: If we stay up now ..

Post by claretspice » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:35 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Success. Noun. The accomplishment of an aim or purpose.

Think carefully about that definition. If the board think that our aim for the season is to finish 17th, well, I for one have standards higher than that. Not unrealistic. Not foolish. Not naive.

We “aim” for the top 10. If we fall short,and finish 17th, it isn’t a bad season (as I said in my post you quoted from). But it isn’t a successful one.

If I took your general advice with reference to my own career I would have stagnated. Almost everyone I compete with has a middle class upbringing, contacts and money behind them, I had neither and I have had to fight for everything I have. Now I have to take on the “big four” and win tenders as a one man band. Almost impossible with the wrong mindset. The way I do it is to set very high standards for myself and others. I hope, and expect, that Burnley FC do the same.
I don't think my advice to anyone would ever be to set your aspirations low. There's absolutely nothing wrong with setting your aspirations as high as you can, nor battling to reach them. In fact, fair play to anyone - or any football club - that does.

But my point is that if you only regard yourself as successful if you achieve your dreams, then you're setting yourself up to be disappointed - and if you mistake your dreams for a realistic, likely outcome then your likely to be both disappointed and counting the cost of chasing those dreams.

In the case of Burnley, finishing top 10 again after last season would be a dream scenario. It definitely wasn't an especially likely outcome, and so to make that the benchmark of success (even if there may be an element of semantics to this) seems to me to be a bit over ambitious.
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