Wells, Vydra Crouch

[Longside4evr]

I could do other areas like cm
Keepers
And refreshing defence
But with 3 strikers and with Wells out onlone
Crouch not on the bench at the weekend and his age to be considered
Vydra not getting called upon
We could generate space for a real quality player bring in the revenue from sales and wages it makes sense as we have to freshen up
But this all depends on what league beckons
We found ways to score this season best return yet so build on that foundation
We have to jiggle in every area but we can certainly draw some revenue from up top UTC

[cricketfieldclarets]

We definitely need to improve. Said on another thread, a new striker is absolutely essential. Along with a new CM, RB and RM.

We can make some real savings in summer. And a marquee signing on one of those areas (ideally CM) is essential.

Wood and Barnes are decent enough and as a partnership really good. Our issue isn't usually converting chances, its creating them.

[FactualFrank]

We definitely need to improve. Said on another thread, a new striker is absolutely essential. Along with a new CM, RB and RM.

We can make some real savings in summer. And a marquee signing on one of those areas (ideally CM) is essential.

Wood and Barnes are decent enough and as a partnership really good. Our issue isn't usually converting chances, its creating them.

So a new striker isn't essential, then?

[Longside4evr]

We need another striker thats got pace and can play the number 10 roll to give us another angle
Also whats most important is a player that challenges what we have to get a start
Vokes did to an extent and the loss of him its as you were which isn't healthy

[FactualFrank]

We need another striker thats got pace and can play the number 10 roll to give us another angle
Also whats most important is a player that challenges what we have to get a start
Vokes did to an extent and the loss of him its as you were which isn't healthy

Vydra is an excellent number 10, given the chance. I sense SD isn't playing him because it means changing the shape of the team and we still need points on the board so is afraid of changing it. If we can beat Cardiff, he won't get a better time to bring Vydra in and let him show what he can do.

[ClaretAndJew]

We need another striker thats got pace and can play the number 10 roll to give us another angle
Also whats most important is a player that challenges what we have to get a start
Vokes did to an extent and the loss of him its as you were which isn't healthy

We've literally got Vydra who excels in those roles and has for previous clubs.

[FactualFrank]

We've literally got Vydra who excels in those roles and has for previous clubs.

You talk a lot of sense!

[Longside4evr]

Vydra is an excellent number 10, given the chance. I sense SD isn't playing him because it means changing the shape of the team and we still need points on the board so is afraid of changing it. If we can beat Cardiff, he won't get a better time to bring Vydra in and let him show what he can do.

But he doesn't smile enough in training so he's surplus to requirements

[claretspice]

We've literally got Vydra who excels in those roles and has for previous clubs.

Albeit in the Championship. He had an excellent game for us in that role against Bournemouth, but in all his other appearances (including cup ties) he's been less impressive and he clearly hasn't convinced Dyche in training that he's worthy of more game time. He might yet come good, but at the minute he looks like a reasonable punt that hasn't come off.

[cricketfieldclarets]

So a new striker isn't essential, then?

Well yes it is. because we have two strikers. Crouch wont be here next season. Or shouldn't be. Vydra has clearly no future.

So 2 strikers is a requirement. But 1 more is definitely essential.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Vydra is an excellent number 10, given the chance. I sense SD isn't playing him because it means changing the shape of the team and we still need points on the board so is afraid of changing it. If we can beat Cardiff, he won't get a better time to bring Vydra in and let him show what he can do.

He didn't have a better time than Leicester.

[FactualFrank]

Well yes it is. because we have two strikers. Crouch wont be here next season. Or shouldn't be. Vydra has clearly no future.

So 2 strikers is a requirement. But 1 more is definitely essential.

I just hope Dyche gives Vydra more time. I'm confident that if he's given a chance he'll get 15+ goals for us a season. The same confidence I had of Charlie Taylor and was shot down on here - player of the season, for me. And the same confidence I have of Wood and was shot down on here. We all know with what happened to Ben Mee, that Sean Dyche is a top manager, but takes time to see what's infront of him.

Get survival sorted and start Vydra. He'd be a top player for us, if/when given enough chances. He's not had enough chances.

[claretspice]

I think most people agree we'll probably be in the market for another forward this summer, but exactly what we need depends in part on whether we're going to play 4-4-2 again next season, or whether we're going to look towards a 4-5-1 shape again as we did successfully last season, perhaps with McNeil stepping into that "number 10" role to which he looks so suited.

If we do go that way, then 3 strikers is probably sufficiently, especially if we can sign a wide player who has the ability to play through the middle if required.

What happens with Vydra probably depends on someone offers us for him/whether he's an attractive makeweight for Championship players we're interested in. I wouldn't rule out him being a success here in the end - he's shown glimpses of talent - but if we can use him to help us upgrade our options this summer, than that's probably the more realistic way to build a squad we're confident has the necessary goals and creativity in it for next season.

[DustyBawls]

I think most people agree we'll probably be in the market for another forward this summer, but exactly what we need depends in part on whether we're going to play 4-4-2 again next season, or whether we're going to look towards a 4-5-1 shape again as we did successfully last season, perhaps with McNeil stepping into that "number 10" role to which he looks so suited.

If we do go that way, then 3 strikers is probably sufficiently, especially if we can sign a wide player who has the ability to play through the middle if required.

Sean Dyche has said a few times he loves 4-4-2 not sure why you think we'll revert back to 4-5-1. You mention we played it successfully last season - we also played it unsuccessfully this season. I assume you've not been on the Turf this season, because we've improved since changing to 4-4-2 and having Woods and Barnes up front.

[CoolClaret]

Albeit in the Championship. He had an excellent game for us in that role against Bournemouth, but in all his other appearances (including cup ties) he's been less impressive and he clearly hasn't convinced Dyche in training that he's worthy of more game time. He might yet come good, but at the minute he looks like a reasonable punt that hasn't come off.

Scored against Olympiacos when we couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, won two penalties against Barnsley? Dunno what else he can do with limited time...

[tim_noone]

I just hope Dyche gives Vydra more time. I'm confident that if he's given a chance he'll get 15+ goals for us a season. The same confidence I had of Charlie Taylor and was shot down on here - player of the season, for me. And the same confidence I have of Wood and was shot down on here. We all know with what happened to Ben Mee, that Sean Dyche is a top manager, but takes time to see what's infront of him.

Get survival sorted and start Vydra. He'd be a top player for us, if/when given enough chances. He's not had enough chances.

You blow a loud trumpet frank.....we hear you!

[claretspice]

Sean Dyche has said a few times he loves 4-4-2 not sure why you think we'll revert back to 4-5-1. You mention we played it successfully last season - we also played it unsuccessfully this season. I assume you've not been on the Turf this season, because we've improved since changing to 4-4-2 and having Woods and Barnes up front.

Barely missed a game old boy.

Dyche likes two banks of four out of possession and I'm not expecting us to move away from that any time soon. But within that basic framework Dyche has shown tonnes of flexibility in his time here - we've played with all sorts of different types of strike pairings, and indeed with a lone striker for most of last season, which also happened to be our most successful. A return to a very basic 4-4-2 has certainly worked well enough for us this season as a means to get our heads above the water line, but its limitations were on show during the recent 4 game losing run when the relative predictability of our forward play has been obvious. Personally, I think we'll need options to play with a more subtle shape to move forwards next season.

[FactualFrank]

Scored against Olympiacos when we couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, won two penalties against Barnsley? Dunno what else he can do with limited time...

Not everybody knows their football CC - leave him alone

[claretspice]

Scored against Olympiacos when we couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, won two penalties against Barnsley? Dunno what else he can do with limited time...

If you thought his overall performance against Barnsley (of League One) suggested he was Premier League quality then fair enough - I didn't. I thought he was untidy overall aside from winning those two penalties. He showed some glimpses against Olympiakos I'll grant you but again I didn't think he showed the sort of quality that immediately suggested he should be starting games for us, which is the point I'm making. I don't think Vydra's a bad player, and he may even make it with us, but the evidence that he will isn't exactly compelling to date.

[FactualFrank]

If you thought his overall performance against Barnsley (of League One) suggested he was Premier League quality then fair enough - I didn't. I thought he was untidy overall aside from winning those two penalties. He showed some glimpses against Olympiakos I'll grant you but again I didn't think he showed the sort of quality that immediately suggested he should be starting games for us, which is the point I'm making. I don't think Vydra's a bad player, and he may even make it with us, but the evidence that he will isn't exactly compelling to date.

Fair enough - this won't surprise you when I say this - I disagree with you.

[Longside4evr]

I agree we have not seen enough of Vydra to make an assumption on him making an impact
But if a player is busting to get a real shout then what i remember of him is the miss at the Etihad stadium in the FA cup at 0-0
It was a bad a miss you are ikely to see nerves or not you simply can't miss them as a professional player

[FactualFrank]

I agree we have not seen enough of Vydra to make an assumption on him making an impact
But if a player is busting to get a real shout then what i remember of him is the miss at the Etihad stadium in the FA cup at 0-0
It was a bad a miss you are ikely to see nerves or not you simply can't miss them as a professional player

He will make a big impact for us if he's given the chance. Like I say, I think because of us being at the wrong end of the table, SD isn't confident to make significant changes unless forced. He'll make an impact when he gets the chance. But I don't think will happen until survival is secure. And you should start watching the Championship - some excellent footballers in that division who would improve our first 11.

[Longside4evr]

Well not sure he will Dyche sees him in training everyday and had no problem in shunting in McNeil
He will no the pros and cons and going off whats Vydra as said in the media its inevitably that he will be surplus needs to smile more in training

[Claretmatt4]

Brilliant another football manager thread.

You can't just ship players off who are contracted to the club willy nilly!

[Longside4evr]

Brilliant another football manager thread.

You can't just ship players off who are contracted to the club willy nilly!

What ?
Every player has a price and ifs not like we are off loading in squad players
And as another football managers thread whats wrong in us having players to off load to recruit for the better of the club
Dont get your statement what so ever care to elaborate too many posters like to come in with cocky aptitudes

[claretspice]

Fair enough - this won't surprise you when I say this - I disagree with you.

No, fair enough, it doesn't. But lets keep the size of this disagreement in proportion - I'm pretty positive about Vydra, and I definitely think it's possible he ultimately makes it with us, and I'm certainly not against him getting another year to prove himself. So we're certainly not on diametrically opposed sides of this debate.

[claretonthecoast1882]

What ?
Every player has a price and ifs not like we are off loading in squad players
And as another football managers thread whats wrong in us having players to off load to recruit for the better of the club
Dont get your statement what so ever care to elaborate too many posters like to come in with cocky aptitudes

Every player does have his price, but when you are saying get rid of players who are under contract you need someone to offer a price you are willing to accept. Can''t just go I want rid of Vydra and another club comes in and says ok heres 12m for him.

[CoolClaret]

If you thought his overall performance against Barnsley (of League One) suggested he was Premier League quality then fair enough - I didn't. I thought he was untidy overall aside from winning those two penalties. He showed some glimpses against Olympiakos I'll grant you but again I didn't think he showed the sort of quality that immediately suggested he should be starting games for us, which is the point I'm making. I don't think Vydra's a bad player, and he may even make it with us, but the evidence that he will isn't exactly compelling to date.

Barnsley are a well drilled & organised team that will be playing Championship football next season.
Under Dyche we have struggled to break teams of that ilk down (Accy, Burton, Lincoln to name a few) and the game was a nervy affair - I don't care if he did didly squat all game, games are won & loss to quote the messier 'on tight margins' - two penalties somewhat widens the margins eh?

I personally don't think there's evidence that he will or won't be a world beater - he's barely played.

The argument is he hasn't had much of a chance and after having a bit of a poor showing at Cardiff got yanked... How many poor showings has other players shown this year without being yanked?... I'll tell you,a hell of a lot more than one.

[FactualFrank]

Barnsley are a well drilled & organised team that will be playing Championship football next season.
Under Dyche we have struggled to break teams of that ilk down (Accy, Burton, Lincoln to name a few) and the game was a nervy affair - I don't care if he did didly squat all game, games are won & loss to quote the messier 'on tight margins' - two penalties somewhat widens the margins eh?

I personally don't think there's evidence that he will or won't be a world beater - he's barely played.

The argument is he hasn't had much of a chance and after having a bit of a poor showing at Cardiff got yanked... How many poor showings has other players shown this year without being yanked?... I'll tell you,a hell of a lot more than one.

I saw a lot of him at Derby and he was always someone who appeared when it mattered. He'd pop up with a couple of goals in some games where you'd forget he was playing. He's someone who can play in the hole, but also be a poacher - nick a goal when it matters. People are writing him off, but have clearly never seen him play prior to him joining us.

It does depend on the opposition, but him and Chris Wood upfront could be superb.

[claretspice]

I personally don't think there's evidence that he will or won't be a world beater - he's barely played.

The argument is he hasn't had much of a chance and after having a bit of a poor showing at Cardiff got yanked... How many poor showings has other players shown this year without being yanked?... I'll tell you,a hell of a lot more than one.

I don't think we're disagreeing about very much of substance, then. He's had limited opportunities, not really made the most of them but has shown flashes so certainly shouldn't be taken into account.

But extra bit I think you have to take into account is how he's performed behind closed doors, in training and in friendlies. We can't judge that, but it obviously influences how many chances he gets and Dyche must be basing his decision not to give him much game time on something (he's hardly in the game of signing players and then leaving them on the sidelines, out of spite). And of course, his experience this season is basically consistent with the other opportunities he's had at this level, when he's struggled to make an impact.

[DustyBawls]

Spot on.

Edit: That was in reply to Frank's post.

[Vegas Claret]

Every player does have his price, but when you are saying get rid of players who are under contract you need someone to offer a price you are willing to accept. Can''t just go I want rid of Vydra and another club comes in and says ok heres 12m for him.

we paid 8 for him, so 8.5 will do

[Vegas Claret]

I saw a lot of him at Derby and he was always someone who appeared when it mattered. He'd pop up with a couple of goals in some games where you'd forget he was playing. He's someone who can play in the hole, but also be a poacher - nick a goal when it matters. People are writing him off, but have clearly never seen him play prior to him joining us.

It does depend on the opposition, but him and Chris Wood upfront could be superb.

I hope we beat Bournemouth and Cardiff then play him for the rest of the games, we need to give him some sort of opportunity

[whiffa]

If we ship out Crouch, Walters, Wells, Defour, Hart and Ward (+/- Vydra) come the end of the season - there should be room in wages to bring some replacements in surely!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If we ship out Crouch, Walters, Wells, Defour, Hart and Ward (+/- Vydra) come the end of the season - there should be room in wages to bring some replacements in surely!

When was the last time we had 6-7 players ship out and replaced in one transfer window?

I can't think of many clubs who do that much of an overhaul in one window, 12-14 deals.

[FactualFrank]

If we ship out Crouch, Walters, Wells, Defour, Hart and Ward (+/- Vydra) come the end of the season - there should be room in wages to bring some replacements in surely!

Walters has retired. He's no longer with us. And I think Crouch was a short deal, so think he's a free agent in the summer - might be wrong with that one, though. And we should keep Vydra. Wells was a sound move with not being able to see into the future. That was quite clearly a just in case move.

[Longside4evr]

Every player does have his price, but when you are saying get rid of players who are under contract you need someone to offer a price you are willing to accept. Can''t just go I want rid of Vydra and another club comes in and says ok heres 12m for him.

So what your saying dont bother if the agent knows the player is not happy about playing we will just keep hold of them to sit on our bench and pay the hefty wages
dont open up room
these three players was not what we wanted the players in my book were cover players all three, so what you are saying is carry on with them and not try and circulate interest just because there under contact that's the daftest thing i have heard

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So what your saying dont bother if the agent knows the player is not happy about playing we will just keep hold of them to sit on our bench then a pay the hefty wages
dont open up room
these three players was not what we wanted the players in my book were cover players all three, so what you saying is carry on with them and not try and circulate interest just because there under contact that's the daftest thing i have heard

You completely misunderstood or misread what he said to you.

It's all well and good banging on about shipping players out, but three things need to happen.
1- we find a club who wants to buy them.
2- we agree on the price.
3- the player wants to go there.

That was the point...

[Longside4evr]

There will be plenty of clubs queuing up for a top scorer at championship level just a season ago get rid if hes not what we need and get someone who is
I am not saying give him away and if we recruit 12 million back its not that bad of an hit and we would have loads of suitors for that kind of money and could spark off a bidding war
what else can we do i heard that Vydra was brought in by Garlick and Dyche wasn't keen but only heard no facts

[FactualFrank]

There will be plenty of clubs queuing up for a top scorer at championship level just a season ago get rid if hes not what we need and get someone who is
I am not saying give him away and if we recruit 12 million back its not that bad of an hit and we would have loads of suitors for that kind of money and could spark off a bidding war
what else can we do i heard that Vydra was brought in by Garlick and Dyche wasn't keen but only heard no facts

Do you seriously think Garlick would sign a player if Dyche didn't approve? It's made up stuff. Probably started in the Foresters where the braincell deprived people go, and then moved on from there.

They all work together and whoever is signed has Sean Dyche's approval.

[Woodleyclaret]

If Dirty Leeds go up they will be in for Vydra.

[FactualFrank]

If Dirty Leeds go up they will be in for Vydra.

Leeds are 100% up. Been saying this for months. And to be fair, the way they play will suit him,

[GodIsADeeJay81]

There will be plenty of clubs queuing up for a top scorer at championship level just a season ago get rid if hes not what we need and get someone who is
I am not saying give him away and if we recruit 12 million back its not that bad of an hit and we would have loads of suitors for that kind of money and could spark off a bidding war
what else can we do i heard that Vydra was brought in by Garlick and Dyche wasn't keen but only heard no facts

Heard but no facts

[Longside4evr]

Wasn't he a dead line day signing and with addons 11 million was the price shelled out
it was out of the blue
Derbys report was 12.2 million
Garlick was the negotiator and transfer dealer at the time. What i heard is his name was circulated very late in the day to us after Leeds interest and Garlick did the deal
Why would he not top score we needed a striker and he was transfer dealing
I dont think its could be that wide of the mark to be honest he probably rang Dyche if it happened this way and who would have argued top score in his league.
We no only what we see and its strange that all what come out in the media similar to on loan Bamford he cried a river

[TVC15]

I just hope Dyche gives Vydra more time. I'm confident that if he's given a chance he'll get 15+ goals for us a season. The same confidence I had of Charlie Taylor and was shot down on here - player of the season, for me. And the same confidence I have of Wood and was shot down on here. We all know with what happened to Ben Mee, that Sean Dyche is a top manager, but takes time to see what's infront of him.

Get survival sorted and start Vydra. He'd be a top player for us, if/when given enough chances. He's not had enough chances.

15+ goal striker. Really ?
There is nothing in his career to date to suggest he can score that many goals at this level.
There has been nothing in his performances for Burnley to suggest that either - but agree he has not had as much game time as he should have done given the inconsistent form of our other strikers.
Tbf getting hold of 15+ goal strikers in this division is hard for most teams - not just us. You are probably looking at £30m plus....and there have been a few at around that price who have not got anywhere near that many so it would be a massive risk to try and spend this type of money (not that we would try).

[FactualFrank]

15+ goal striker. Really ?
There is nothing in his career to date to suggest he can score that many goals at this level.
There has been nothing in his performances for Burnley to suggest that either - but agree he has not had as much game time as he should have done given the inconsistent form of our other strikers.
Tbf getting hold of 15+ goal strikers in this division is hard for most teams - not just us. You are probably looking at £30m plus....and there have been a few at around that price who have not got anywhere near that many so it would be a massive risk to try and spend this type of money (not that we would try).

Yep. 15+ goals.

[Longside4evr]

Sean Dyche should offload Vydra and Crouch in the summer and sign Khouma Babacar from Sassuolo.

Image result for khouma babacar sassuolo
Babacar has been decent for Sassuolo this campaign and is their top scorer with 6 goals. Although the numbers make him look average, the Senegalese is an incredible talent and on his day, is unstoppable.

Standing at 6ft 3in, Babacar on first look might seem to be a regular target man but his performances have shown that he is much more than that.

The 25-year old relies more on the technical side of his game rather than his physique and is a keen dribbler of the ball who enjoys taking defenders on.
Burnley need to get back to the level of last season and for that, Sean Dyche needs to open his cheque book. The Burnley boss has been fortunate with his two strikers
whose end product has been good but a progressing team like Burnley need more options and Khouma Babacar fits that role well.

Also pulled from an interview
Incredibly, Vydra claimed Dyche blocked him from leaving in January, but says he does not SMILE enough in training.

Vydra said: “I had six offers to go on loan, but the manager told me that he needs me, because I’m a different type than the other strikers. So we talked and he told me that I’m doing OK, that everything is fine but suddenly he said an interesting thing: that I’m not smiling enough during the trainings.

“I don’t know... it’s hard for me. I’m not like Brazilians, smiling all the time. If I’m not playing, maybe it’s noticeable that I’m frustrated.”

[Vegas Claret]

Yank tv was talking about Vydra the other day pre the England game - they said we paid 8 million for him. That makes a lot more sense than the reported 12 and also fits in with the way we do business

[TVC15]

Yep. 15+ goals.

Ok - dare to dream and all that !

[FactualFrank]

Ok - dare to dream and all that !

Watch and learn pal. If he gets a chance he'll get 15.