Bury : No Wages

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:17 pm

Reading between the lines WBA have probably thought it would be a pointless exercise playing against whatever Bury can cobble together after hearing they hardly had many in for pre season so extended the overseas trip.

Or Bury have said to WBA we cannot raise a team and can't afford to stage the game.

It is difficult to work out how this will map out. Will they have the resources on and off the pitch to play their first game which isn't long off? Will the EFL kick them out? Will they be liquidated? Would someone buy a club that was so financially unattractive?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:18 pm

NL Claret wrote:Reading between the lines WBA have probably thought it would be a pointless exercise playing against whatever Bury can cobble together after hearing they hardly had many in for pre season so extended the overseas trip.

Or Bury have said to WBA we cannot raise a team and can't afford to stage the game.

That's exactly how I read it

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:50 am

This is getting ridiculous - may only have youth players in a week or so

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... leave.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:23 pm

Now it transpires that the EFL still have not done the relevant checks on Dale after his takeover - as we suspected no such thing as "fit and proper" more "are you stupid enough to try and keep it going?"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... mbargo-efl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:20 am

Supporters Trust send open letter to Owner/Chairman Steve Dale asking a number of pertinent questions

https://www.foreverbury.org/post/an-ope ... e-chairman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:07 am

Looking increasingly like two Lancashire clubs in this league already likely to be relegated

gawthorpe_view · Post by **gawthorpe_view** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:23 am

Bury could be thrown out of the league if they can't fulfill their fixtures.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:09 am

Chester Perry wrote:Now it transpires that the EFL still have not done the relevant checks on Dale after his takeover - as we suspected no such thing as "fit and proper" more "are you stupid enough to try and keep it going?"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... mbargo-efl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is the point of the fit and proper owner test if the EFL don't scrutinise potential owners before they get their feet under the table,shows it's not worth the paper it's written on.

I've said it before it will take one or more clubs going to the wall,to wake the authorities up to the plight of lower league clubs.

It's the staff you have to feel for they didn't cause this chaos,but as per they'll be the ones to suffer.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:36 am

tiger76 wrote:What is the point of the fit and proper owner test if the EFL don't scrutinise potential owners before they get their feet under the table,shows it's not worth the paper it's written on.

What chance do you have when the bloke running the league had himself been involved in clubs going into administration three or four times?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:44 am

I think when someone comes forward to buy Bury, the fit and worthy test is already sinking sand. It would take Sachi and Sachi running the PR department, a billionaire bankrolling them and a top manager for Bury to have a reasonable chance of catapulting into a Championship club.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:44 pm

There's a team sheet on Twitter for today's friendly at Nantwich. The team for the first half names 11 trialists. The team for the second half names 11 trialists.

Reecey1987 · Post by **Reecey1987** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:34 pm

NL Claret wrote:There's a team sheet on Twitter for today's friendly at Nantwich. The team for the first half names 11 trialists. The team for the second half names 11 trialists.

Its here

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:46 pm

Joe Davis on that team sheet is the son of former Claret Steve Davis mark 1.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:35 pm

I think Bury's owners will be listed for trial soon.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:52 pm

We've signed a player from Bury

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:54 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:We've signed a player from Bury

I believe his name is Trialist

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:53 pm

proposed CVA agreed - there is life in the dog yet
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49034775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

whentheballmoves · Post by **whentheballmoves** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:57 pm

A Shaker mate of mine reckons they may struggle to start the season, having just THREE players on their books at the moment...

ecc · Post by **ecc** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:08 pm

It's been said hundreds and hundreds of times on here but I feel it's still worth repeating: yes, we've had a few ups and downs but by and large we've been lucky with the owners of our club down the years. I know it's not always been perfect but when you see this mess - increasingly replicated up and down the country in the last twenty-odd years - I think we've been damn lucky.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:19 pm

From a League 1 perspective that is 2 clubs now starting on a points deduction - potentially just 2 relegation places left - good news for Accy, Blackpool, Fleetwood and Rochdale

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:43 pm

Intriguing statement from the Chairman

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/july ... -chairman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what is left of his credibility may disappear if the Police take no action

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:50 pm

There is nothing left of his credibility but now we farcically have two clubs starting the League 1 season on minus 12 points.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:52 pm

Points deduction confirmed by EFL https://www.efl.com/news/2019/july/efl- ... t-bury-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:05 pm

The Financial Times has done a report on peer-to-peer lender Lendy who were a major lender to Stewart Day and his collapsed business - more questionable practises there - behind a paywall but some kind soul has put it on twitter so @AndyhHolt could read it

https://twitter.com/Marv147/status/1153422073123004419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/Marv147/status/1153422424806961154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:56 pm

Crisis club Bury's fixtures could be suspended ahead of the new season, the English Football League has warned.

The Shakers were last week deducted 12 points ahead of the new Sky Bet League One season after entering a Company Voluntary Agreement over unpaid debts.

But Bury's future remains in the air with the local Safety Advisory Group meeting on Thursday to consider whether the club meets all the requirements necessary to safely stage EFL fixtures at Gigg Lane for the 2019-20 season.

The EFL, said in a statement, that the league has the ability to suspend Bury's fixtures under Regulation 28.2 should the SAG confirm the club does not have the sufficient resources and facilities for its opening fixtures and/or it fails to provide all the outstanding information and documentation.
EFL executive chair Debbie Jevans, said:
This is an incredibly difficult and complex situation for all those involved, in particular the staff, players and supporters of the club.

We fully recognise the value and importance of the club to the local community and its fans, and will continue to work proactively and diligently with the ownership, as we have done over an extended period of time to try and ensure Bury FC has a long-term future as a member of the EFL.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:12 pm

It is difficult to work out who is more desperate: the EFL or the club

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:35 pm

Chester Perry wrote:It is difficult to work out who is more desperate: the EFL or the club

You would hope the league might improve a bit now with the buffoon Harvey out of the way

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:02 pm

Didnt they play Rovers in a friendly yesterday ?

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:46 pm

not looking good for them

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -suspended" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:06 pm

Plyed Rovers in friendly. Lost 3-0 Attendance just over 1350 inc 600+ from Rovers. No catering available but playing surface looked immaculate. Bury fielded full team plus subs.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:21 pm

EFL will meet in the next 24hrs to decide their next move on #BuryFC - who presumably have not supplied the info they needed to supply. Another statement will be made after the meeting.

From Mark Iles Bolton evening news. He's become an expert on football finance been the journalist who covers Bolton wanderers.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:25 pm

The team sheets from the Nantwich and Rovers friendlies could end up being worth more than the club !

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:41 pm

EFL confirm just how long Bury have left to salvage their season - and possibly the club

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/july/efl- ... -bury-fc2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:33 pm

Update from the league on Bury this evening.

The EFL Board met today in respect of the ongoing matters at Bury FC where it determined that if the League is not in receipt of the previously requested information by 12pm on Monday 29 July then the Club's opening day fixture with MK Dons will be suspended.

Both Bury and MK Dons have been informed of the League's position.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:37 pm

The lower leagues will have to go semi professional.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:55 pm

it was posted on the Bolton thread but should be here I think

The Chairman has issued the following statement:
We, as a Club are saddened by recent events from a body who should have the best interest of Clubs as it’s primary objective, clearly this is not the case.
We, as a Club had come through such adversity left from the previous owner and had started to make headway, the majority of rot had been cut out and the atmosphere at our Training Ground was fantastic, where a positive air had started to replace the despondency of the legacy. New players were arriving with an open mind and looking forward to the new season as were our fantastic new staff.

We thought we were finalizing with the EFL on any outstanding matters that needed addressing, they were fully aware that SAG were happy with our progress and upon the lighting replacement being completed ALL matters were concluded and the certificates would be issued the next day. The Council also confirmed this to the EFL so no worries fulfilling fixtures.
Our CVA had been put forward and we had proven to the courts our ability to fund it and it was passed after 5 months of hard work, this closed off the past where creditors would be dealt with by the administrator, or so we thought.
We submitted all that we were asked to by the EFL in the week prior to their “statement” not as they stated, “not submitted.” So as far as we were concerned we were up to date and requested they lift the embargo so we could sign our players as we were running the risk of losing them.
We then received an email explaining they felt it prudent to amend our cash flow/business plan to show a £1.5m loss and they required additional funding, as this was not factual we challenged their assertion as it was based we were advised on “sensitised feel” not facts, we forwarded the facts to qualify our plan and dismiss their “sensitised feel.”
So at this point, we felt all had been covered and we could continue with the upward trajectory we were on, get our players signed and all was good, Bury was on its way.

THEN THE INFAMOUS EFL STATEMENTS
I was advised by the EFL chair that board pressure had been put on her to send out a statement, however, she had the decency to advise me by phone prior, which was and has always been appreciated.
I explained all the matters were covered, we had spoken and agreed in principle the player debt with the PFA and within the CVA, the CVA administrator sent a letter to the EFL confirming all was as it should be and he was happy creditors would be met within it. They had our business plan and to save the matter protracting we sent proof of funds to cover the fictional £1.5m loss, furthermore, they had been contacted by the Council informing them the SAG licences had been cleared.
They still, however, felt it prudent to ignore the facts and send out the incendiary statement for no gain to anybody other than to discredit Bury FC and it’s Board.
The effect of that to our Club has been unrest in players thinking there would be no Club, loss of players, sponsors pulling out and 5 months of hard work being destroyed by them, then you have the subsequent media garbage inciting unrest and the trolls rearing their sorry heads again, all based on ill truths or at best negative spin, for what?
They then contacted Jill Neville late at night to say a further statement was being put out, our Staff and the Club Lawyer tried to contact them to no avail to ask what was their next statement based on as they had everything, it turned out the game would not go ahead?
They contacted us giving us more time, we asked what further could be given, our cash flow was solid, the mythical £1.5m requirement was covered should it ever be needed by an offer letter and they themselves advised “The EFL is aware the £1.5m may not be required it's a worst-case scenario forecast. It may never need to be drawn down on.” And again they were advised the PFA were working with us on a settlement however this was covered by the CVA, so you would assume once again all good.
Then the EFL meeting last night and subsequent statement, where they decided the POF letter of £1.5m was not sufficient they wanted money in the bank to cover the requirement they themselves say is not needed, and let’s not forget, in addition to our positive cash flow, the EFL have withheld payments to the Club of £569,493 including August payment, not the actions of a body there to help, but certainly if released would cover possible eventualities they deem prevalent. They also disputed our agreement with the PFA even though our Lawyer and prominent third parties were privy to this. Still, they postpone the match and again for what gain?
I am unsure at this juncture where Bury go when the body that should be there to help us works against us, however, I felt it important to set the record straight and hope the EFL try to be reasonable.
We, as a Club, promise you that we will challenge this injustice in whatever forum necessary.
Yours sincerely,
Steven D Dale

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:41 pm

They're hanging the wrong club out to dry...

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:24 pm

Interesting take from David Conn at the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... teeth-bury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:34 pm

ClaretTony wrote:You would hope the league might improve a bit now with the buffoon Harvey out of the way

Doubt if he would pass a " fit and proper person test" himself !

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:18 pm

Aclaret wrote:Doubt if he would pass a " fit and proper person test" himself !

He wouldn't, that's 100% certain given the number of admins he's taken clubs into.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:22 pm

Given how flaky that test is - if he has no current convictions for which he is serving a sentence and is not currently barred from being a company director then he most definitely could

DuckworthsEA · Post by **DuckworthsEA** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:47 pm

Chester Perry wrote:it was posted on the Bolton thread but should be here I think

The Chairman has issued the following statement:
We, as a Club are saddened by recent events from a body who should have the best interest of Clubs as it’s primary objective, clearly this is not the case.
We, as a Club had come through such adversity left from the previous owner and had started to make headway, the majority of rot had been cut out and the atmosphere at our Training Ground was fantastic, where a positive air had started to replace the despondency of the legacy. New players were arriving with an open mind and looking forward to the new season as were our fantastic new staff.

We thought we were finalizing with the EFL on any outstanding matters that needed addressing, they were fully aware that SAG were happy with our progress and upon the lighting replacement being completed ALL matters were concluded and the certificates would be issued the next day. The Council also confirmed this to the EFL so no worries fulfilling fixtures.
Our CVA had been put forward and we had proven to the courts our ability to fund it and it was passed after 5 months of hard work, this closed off the past where creditors would be dealt with by the administrator, or so we thought.
We submitted all that we were asked to by the EFL in the week prior to their “statement” not as they stated, “not submitted.” So as far as we were concerned we were up to date and requested they lift the embargo so we could sign our players as we were running the risk of losing them.
We then received an email explaining they felt it prudent to amend our cash flow/business plan to show a £1.5m loss and they required additional funding, as this was not factual we challenged their assertion as it was based we were advised on “sensitised feel” not facts, we forwarded the facts to qualify our plan and dismiss their “sensitised feel.”
So at this point, we felt all had been covered and we could continue with the upward trajectory we were on, get our players signed and all was good, Bury was on its way.

THEN THE INFAMOUS EFL STATEMENTS
I was advised by the EFL chair that board pressure had been put on her to send out a statement, however, she had the decency to advise me by phone prior, which was and has always been appreciated.
I explained all the matters were covered, we had spoken and agreed in principle the player debt with the PFA and within the CVA, the CVA administrator sent a letter to the EFL confirming all was as it should be and he was happy creditors would be met within it. They had our business plan and to save the matter protracting we sent proof of funds to cover the fictional £1.5m loss, furthermore, they had been contacted by the Council informing them the SAG licences had been cleared.
They still, however, felt it prudent to ignore the facts and send out the incendiary statement for no gain to anybody other than to discredit Bury FC and it’s Board.
The effect of that to our Club has been unrest in players thinking there would be no Club, loss of players, sponsors pulling out and 5 months of hard work being destroyed by them, then you have the subsequent media garbage inciting unrest and the trolls rearing their sorry heads again, all based on ill truths or at best negative spin, for what?
They then contacted Jill Neville late at night to say a further statement was being put out, our Staff and the Club Lawyer tried to contact them to no avail to ask what was their next statement based on as they had everything, it turned out the game would not go ahead?
They contacted us giving us more time, we asked what further could be given, our cash flow was solid, the mythical £1.5m requirement was covered should it ever be needed by an offer letter and they themselves advised “The EFL is aware the £1.5m may not be required it's a worst-case scenario forecast. It may never need to be drawn down on.” And again they were advised the PFA were working with us on a settlement however this was covered by the CVA, so you would assume once again all good.
Then the EFL meeting last night and subsequent statement, where they decided the POF letter of £1.5m was not sufficient they wanted money in the bank to cover the requirement they themselves say is not needed, and let’s not forget, in addition to our positive cash flow, the EFL have withheld payments to the Club of £569,493 including August payment, not the actions of a body there to help, but certainly if released would cover possible eventualities they deem prevalent. They also disputed our agreement with the PFA even though our Lawyer and prominent third parties were privy to this. Still, they postpone the match and again for what gain?
I am unsure at this juncture where Bury go when the body that should be there to help us works against us, however, I felt it important to set the record straight and hope the EFL try to be reasonable.
We, as a Club, promise you that we will challenge this injustice in whatever forum necessary.
Yours sincerely,
Steven D Dale

What a load of shite. I feel for Bury and there fans they have been in some dark places over the past few years but how on earth this guy was able to purchase the club is a joke. The EFL are just as much to blame as he is for the demise by not conducting the proper checks in the first place because if they had then they wouldn’t be seeking the financial reassurances.

That statement is an insult to their fans. Either put some money in to save them or don’t and sell it to someone who will. Shocking

Andingle · Post by **Andingle** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:10 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49178564" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:55 pm

This update from David Conn in the Guardian is depressing following the hope that came after this mornings news

Threat of possible expulsion from Football League still hanging over Bury
• EFL says club owner Steve Dale has not provided proof of funds
• Accrington game will be suspended if Friday deadline is not met

David Conn - Wed 31 Jul 2019 21.08 BST

Bury still face a threat of being expelled from the Football League after 125 years of membership if the owner, Steve Dale, does not provide the EFL with evidence that he has the funding to pay former players and full-time staff, and to run the club this season.

The EFL has suspended the club’s first fixture, against MK Dons on Saturday, stating that Dale has not shown them the required “proof of funds” and that he must provide it by 12 pm on Friday or the scheduled second match, away at Accrington Stanley, will also be suspended.

If that does happen, the EFL board will then meet to review Bury’s overall situation and a possible expulsion from the league is among the options it could then consider. If that were to happen, the EFL clarified that League One would be played with 23 rather than 24 clubs and next season an extra club would be promoted from League Two.

Speaking to the Guardian the EFL’s executive chair, Debbie Jevans, said: “We asked for ‘sufficiency of funds’ to demonstrate that Bury can compete, that staff are being paid on and off the pitch. We gave a deadline for that information, it was a real deadline, I spoke to Mr Dale, he was aware of it and, when it didn’t come through, we took the only decision we could.

“Now we need the information by this Friday or else the Accrington Stanley match will be suspended. And at that point the board will meet to review the future. You can’t go through a whole season one match at a time.”

Dale said in a forthright statement on Tuesday that he had indeed provided the EFL with proof of funds, including to cope as requested with a possible £1.5m loss which he described as “fictional”. But Jevans said that the EFL had asked for evidence that former players – who were part of the squad which won promotion from League Two in May but then revealed they had not been paid since February – have now been paid all the money owing to them.

Full-time staff must now also be paid in full, as they are classed as “football creditors” in any insolvency procedure, such as a company voluntary arrangement (CVA) which Bury entered into last month.

At the time of the CVA, in which Dale committed to paying “non-football creditors” 25p for every pound owed, players were stated to have been owed £405,815, within a total of almost £1m owed to football creditors. No separate category was noted for wages owed to full-time staff.

Jevans said the EFL has also been asking for evidence that: “The club could operate for a season, which means running a stadium, paying players, staff, stewards; we asked for that in very simple terms. Currently we have not received what we have asked for.”

Dale told the Guardian in response that the CVA will be financed and cover the former players’ wages, that he is still in discussions with the EFL over the “mythical £1.5m,” and said that current players have all been paid.

Jevans added that the EFL will reflect on its rules governing takeovers in the light of the crisis at Bury which has followed Dale’s £1 takeover in December, as part of the league’s ongoing review of its governance.

Andingle · Post by **Andingle** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:12 pm

Man's a crank
https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/july ... t-hearing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:16 am

Carlisle have revealed Bury sold tickets for their away game at Carlisle, and kept the money instead of paying Carlisle.

It seems they did it to a few clubs so Tranmere made Bury fans order from their website so Bury couldn't steal the money.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:39 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Carlisle have revealed Bury sold tickets for their away game at Carlisle, and kept the money instead of paying Carlisle.

It seems they did it to a few clubs so Tranmere made Bury fans order from their website so Bury couldn't steal the money.

Fiddling the gate is a distant memory now..

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:21 am

That tweet from Carlisle has certainly shocked @AndyhHolt at Accrington - he wasn't aware - and the EFL will determine whether Bury will visit them a week on Saturday, tomorrow. If it is on I guess he will be talking to his mate Marc Palios at Tranmere toot suite

1HappyClaret · Post by **1HappyClaret** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:53 pm

2nd game now suspended. Expulsion looming??

TheOriginalLongsider · Post by **TheOriginalLongsider** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:55 pm

Bury’s Second match of season v Accrington also called off ...