Bury : No Wages

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Tricky Trevor
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:30 am

Paul Waine wrote:and how do you think club and their fans that will miss out on promotion to L2, if Bury are given their place, will feel about it?
Nobody would miss out on promotion. Only 3 sides are to be relegated from League1 + Bury. The team that would possibly lose out would be the team finishing 23rd in League2. As it stands they would stay in. If Bury get the spot they will go to National league, which their performance warrants anyway.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:13 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Nobody would miss out on promotion. Only 3 sides are to be relegated from League1 + Bury. The team that would possibly lose out would be the team finishing 23rd in League2. As it stands they would stay in. If Bury get the spot they will go to National league, which their performance warrants anyway.
Their performance using someone else's money. That's the problem, or one of them - they got promotion by cheating the public, the other clubs, and their creditors. Should they be allowed to get the benefit of that cheating promotion? And should other clubs be encouraged to believe that they can commit any level of financial cheating and they will not be punished?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:35 am

claptrappers_union wrote:I can't see any harm in starting in League 2 next season as long as a new owner can prove the funds are there and everybody is paid what they are owed. If they are liquidated on the other hand, they should effectively start again in non-league.
They would have been in League Two next season anyway had they not been expelled given they’d have been starting at minus 12. Surely shouldn’t be allowed to return at that level.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:42 am

dsr wrote:Their performance using someone else's money. That's the problem, or one of them - they got promotion by cheating the public, the other clubs, and their creditors. Should they be allowed to get the benefit of that cheating promotion? And should other clubs be encouraged to believe that they can commit any level of financial cheating and they will not be punished?
I have mixed emotions about this. I’m with you that clubs should be punished but when the problem is caused by owners,who have no interest in the game, why should the town and the fans lose so dramatically?
It’s a conundrum that others will have to solve.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Falcon » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:43 am

I don't have any problem with them re-joining at League 2 level. They'd be there anyway.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:51 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:I have mixed emotions about this. I’m with you that clubs should be punished but when the problem is caused by owners,who have no interest in the game, why should the town and the fans lose so dramatically?
It’s a conundrum that others will have to solve.
The fans have to suffer because if you change the rules so that spivs, thieves, and incompetents can cheat and lie and steal and defraud their suppliers with no fear of sanction, then there will be no incentive for anyone - fans or previous owners - to stop the spivs, thieves and liars getting involved. We need to fight against people like this. Not welcome them.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by bfcjg » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:41 pm

I dont think you can create a presidence as any club could go under creditors get nothing, but have a buyer in the wings to fund a fresh debt free start in league 2.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by wembley94 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:11 pm

Bury A.F.C got what they deserved.for three or four years.the clubs reckless over spending.on players in order to gain promotion.was at the expense of other clubs.last season a lone Mansfield should have won promotion.Notts County should have got a reprive... let's be honest most Bury fans must have known that

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Andingle » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:45 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... e-bury-fc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by No Ney Never » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Hypothetical at the moment, but say fraud is proved and Dale is the one found guilty, could the football club be seized under proceeds of crime and auctioned off? Would be nice if the fans could raise the money to buy it.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by claptrappers_union » Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:45 pm

ClaretTony wrote:They would have been in League Two next season anyway had they not been expelled given they’d have been starting at minus 12. Surely shouldn’t be allowed to return at that level.
They would've likely been relegated, yes, but you can't say for sure. They may have won every game.......... But if everyone is paid what they are owed and the books are balanced, I don't see what the issue is.

If they are liquidated - then that's it. A new club can start at the bottom rung of the ladder, and the history and the records only belong to the former Bury FC, not the new one.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by wembley94 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:02 pm

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... e-16854210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Good article.but they won't be back in the league.in 5 or 6 years

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:43 pm

EFL now contacting member clubs about re-instating them in League 2.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:25 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:They would've likely been relegated, yes, but you can't say for sure. They may have won every game.......... But if everyone is paid what they are owed and the books are balanced, I don't see what the issue is.

If they are liquidated - then that's it. A new club can start at the bottom rung of the ladder, and the history and the records only belong to the former Bury FC, not the new one.
The issue is that by allowing them in League Two next season there will have been no real sanction given they would have been heading there.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by thelaughingclaret » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:07 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The issue is that by allowing them in League Two next season there will have been no real sanction given they would have been heading there.
Exactly. It’s sets a precedent that any club can spend beyond their means, get into debt and then if they kicked out of the league so what, you’ll get reinstated the next season back into the same division you would’ve been in anyway.
Therefore a championship club can go all out for promotion, spend hundreds of millions they don’t have and if it doesn’t work out and they get thrown out of the league they’ll end up in league one where they’d probably would’ve ended up anyway. It’s no punishment. The very highest level Bury should be allowed to play in next season is the national league. This is all an absolute mess by the football league. And I really don’t think politicians should have a say in who is in what league no matter who they support or how local they are.
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by claptrappers_union » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:44 am

In Bury’s case so far, overspending means instant relegation and suspension of fixtures. No club wants that. But at least it keeps jobs (probably not all, but most).

Who benefits from sending them to non-league if they can settle their debts?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Falcon » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:56 am

As much as it may 'set a precedent' I just can't see any club tactically overspending, purposefully going bust, failing to field a side and getting their fixtures suspended, then starting a division below with a completely untried XI.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:59 am

Falcon wrote:As much as it may 'set a precedent' I just can't see any club tactically overspending, purposefully going bust, failing to field a side and getting their fixtures suspended, then starting a division below with a completely untried XI.
Owners already take excessive risks. Can't you imagine owners taking even more excessive risks if they know the penalties are negligible if they get it wrong?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Down_Rover » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:07 am

A couple of comments here

1. Dale was reported to have a net worth of £8.5m. How? What does he do? it is not at all clear via Companies House that he has the ability to earn anything at all

2. It is not the club who should be penalised, other than to have their ill gotten gains removed, ie sent back to League 2. It should be the perpetrators who are brought to book and maybe that is what the fraud investigation is all about

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Falcon » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:38 am

dsr wrote:Owners already take excessive risks. Can't you imagine owners taking even more excessive risks if they know the penalties are negligible if they get it wrong?
Proof will be in the pudding as ever, but if Bury were reinstated in league 2 next year can you really see them being particularly competitive. They may well be relegated again.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:16 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:Nobody would miss out on promotion. Only 3 sides are to be relegated from League1 + Bury. The team that would possibly lose out would be the team finishing 23rd in League2. As it stands they would stay in. If Bury get the spot they will go to National league, which their performance warrants anyway.
and Bury's performance merits..... what?

Some posters are speaking of the 150 people who will lose their jobs as Bury close.

How many people will lose their jobs as a result of Bury not paying their debts?

How many jobs will be lost for the teams a little lower down the "pyramid" who will now have the chance to move a little higher, creating new jobs as they move up?
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:16 pm

Paul Waine wrote:and Bury's performance merits..... what?

Some posters are speaking of the 150 people who will lose their jobs as Bury close.

How many people will lose their jobs as a result of Bury not paying their debts?

How many jobs will be lost for the teams a little lower down the "pyramid" who will now have the chance to move a little higher, creating new jobs as they move up?
And just to add one more, how many jobs will be lost or else not created at the club that played by the rules and finished one place below Bury last season?
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by tim_noone » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:33 pm

dsr wrote:Owners already take excessive risks. Can't you imagine owners taking even more excessive risks if they know the penalties are negligible if they get it wrong?
I mày be wrong and slightly off topic...But while Burnley played it fairly and squarely financially in Sean Dyche's first promotion. Queens Park Rangers threw mega money at it unfairly to gain promotion.... And it came back to bite em!

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:32 am

More tales of woe for those who only had the clubs interests at heart while others shafted them

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/statu ... 3301705728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have used up my free articles for the week so if someone could transcribe I would be grateful

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:04 am

Chester Perry wrote:More tales of woe for those who only had the clubs interests at heart while others shafted them

https://twitter.com/martynziegler/statu ... 3301705728" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have used up my free articles for the week so if someone could transcribe I would be grateful
Similar report is in today's Times.

In brief (I've got to go to work) pension contributions, including the money deducted from players (and other staff) wages - when they were paid - has "disappeared" and has not been paid into the players' pensions. Apparently this goes back 2 years - estimated/declared about £100k - and most of this is an unsecured creditor (only the last 4 months of any delayed/missing pension contributor is in the secured category).

It sounds like financial fair play needs a rule that (1) wages have been paid on time; (2) income tax and NI has been paid to HMRC on time and (3) pension contributions have been paid on time.

And, let's start with 5 points deduction if any one of those 3 haven't been paid 1 month after the wages were due....

Plus, any of these things outstanding 1 month after the end of the season, the club is moved down to start the next season in a division below.

That might help with the "fit and proper" owners test.

Work calls. Have a great day, everyone.
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by deanothedino » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:30 am

ClaretTony wrote:The issue is that by allowing them in League Two next season there will have been no real sanction given they would have been heading there.
They were only definitely heading there because of sanctions though. So surely they are still being sanctioned.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:32 am

Paul Waine wrote:Similar report is in today's Times.

In brief (I've got to go to work) pension contributions, including the money deducted from players (and other staff) wages - when they were paid - has "disappeared" and has not been paid into the players' pensions. Apparently this goes back 2 years - estimated/declared about £100k - and most of this is an unsecured creditor (only the last 4 months of any delayed/missing pension contributor is in the secured category).

It sounds like financial fair play needs a rule that (1) wages have been paid on time; (2) income tax and NI has been paid to HMRC on time and (3) pension contributions have been paid on time.

And, let's start with 5 points deduction if any one of those 3 haven't been paid 1 month after the wages were due....

Plus, any of these things outstanding 1 month after the end of the season, the club is moved down to start the next season in a division below.

That might help with the "fit and proper" owners test.

Work calls. Have a great day, everyone.
Surely the players' pension contributions would be a football creditor, and not paying all football creditors means expulsion from the league.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:45 am

deanothedino wrote:They were only definitely heading there because of sanctions though. So surely they are still being sanctioned.
That sanction was for the CVA, not what's followed since.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by deanothedino » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:53 am

ClaretTony wrote:That sanction was for the CVA, not what's followed since.
But as CTU said, that wasn't a guarantee of relegation. They'll have now been deprived of football for a full season and automatically been relegated. If you want to be extra cruel they could start next season with a deduction too.

Dare I say, if this was the Clarets you'd be seeing things differently.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:54 am

Paul Waine wrote:Similar report is in today's Times.
Cheers Paul - link was to the same article - Matt Lawton has moved to the Times from the Mail - part of the aftershock of the Athletic recruiting most of the best writers

Great points on the FFP and fully agree with the penalty suggested
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:59 am

deanothedino wrote:But as CTU said, that wasn't a guarantee of relegation. They'll have now been deprived of football for a full season and automatically been relegated. If you want to be extra cruel they could start next season with a deduction too.

Dare I say, if this was the Clarets you'd be seeing things differently.
It's got nothing to do with whether this was us or not, they have a 12 point penalty for the CVA and, given all the other circumstances, would have been 99.99999999999% certain to be relegated. My view is that, should they restart, it should not be in the division they would have likely been in.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by aggi » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:24 am

Paul Waine wrote:Similar report is in today's Times.

In brief (I've got to go to work) pension contributions, including the money deducted from players (and other staff) wages - when they were paid - has "disappeared" and has not been paid into the players' pensions. Apparently this goes back 2 years - estimated/declared about £100k - and most of this is an unsecured creditor (only the last 4 months of any delayed/missing pension contributor is in the secured category).

It sounds like financial fair play needs a rule that (1) wages have been paid on time; (2) income tax and NI has been paid to HMRC on time and (3) pension contributions have been paid on time.

And, let's start with 5 points deduction if any one of those 3 haven't been paid 1 month after the wages were due....

Plus, any of these things outstanding 1 month after the end of the season, the club is moved down to start the next season in a division below.

That might help with the "fit and proper" owners test.

Work calls. Have a great day, everyone.
From that description this sounds criminal rather than something to be dealt with as part of the administration.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 pm

dsr wrote:Surely the players' pension contributions would be a football creditor, and not paying all football creditors means expulsion from the league.
Yes, Bury have been expelled - and the players and staff have lost most of their pension contributions - contributions that should have been safely in their pension schemes up to 2 years ago.

The "fit and proper" tests needs to make sure that debts are honour when they are due.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:02 am

aggi wrote:From that description this sounds criminal rather than something to be dealt with as part of the administration.
I'm not sure where the line is drawn between defaulting on liabilities - because there is no money to pay the debts - and deducting income tax, national insurance and pension contributions from employees wages and not paying into pension schemes and to HMRC. Shabby behaviour, whatever else it is. Dishonest? Fraud? I expect that is for the courts to decide.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:09 am

The Times (print edition, Thurs 5th, on-line edition, Wed 4th): Martyn Ziegler, Chief Sports Reporter

Bury staff missing thousands of pounds from pension pots

Tens of thousands of pounds of pensions contributions taken from staff members’ salaries by Bury Football Club appear to have disappeared, it can be revealed.

The latest development in the financial scandal surrounding Bury, who were expelled from the Football League last week, comes after police confirmed they have launched a fraud inquiry into the club.

Two former academy employees at the club have told The Times that their pension pots only contain a few pounds despite two years of paying pension contributions. The employer contributions to match the staff contributions have not been paid into their pension funds either. The club has admitted to a pensions deficit of £100,000.

Andy Tower, who was the Bury academy’s head of coaching until last week, and the former head academy physio Josh Birtwistle said they believed all the academy and first team staff were in the same boat.

Tower said that he was alerted to the failure to pass on the contributions last year when the former owner Stewart Day was still in charge. No pension contributions have been made since Steve Dale took over the club in December.

Tower said: “Not only have we not received contributions from the club, but the payments that were taken from our salaries have not been paid in there either. This goes back two years and there is just £5 in my pension fund when there should be more than £2,500.

“It goes back to the previous regime and lots of people raised it at different times. The club’s explanation was always that, ‘We know there’s an issue and we are looking into it but the money is there.’ But if the money is there, where exactly is it?”

Birtwistle, who is also missing around two years of pension payments, has only £3.63 in his pension fund. He said he had raised an internal complaint earlier this year and eventually had to take time off work due to the stress before leaving the club in May.

He said: “Eventually I realised I had to get out of there. I had previously worked at Leyton Orient when it had been going through its problems and I saw all the same warning signs. Everyone I knew among the academy staff and the first-team staff are missing contributions.”

Birtwistle said he sent five emails to Inquesta, the insolvency practitioners supervising the company voluntary arrangement (CVA) which was proposed to cut Bury’s debts, before receiving a response that it would take six to eight weeks for it to investigate.

The pension issue was admitted by Inquesta’s Steven Wiseglass in his CVA proposal to creditors on June 21.

He said that “No payments have been made into the [pension] scheme for a significant period of time” and that “the club has estimated it to be a deficit of £100,000”.

Wiseglass and Dale did not respond when contacted for comment.

*******************************

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:54 am

and the latest from The Times today (Fri 6th)

Inquiry to be launched into Bury’s demise

An independent QC-led inquiry will be held into the financial collapse and subsequent expulsion of Bury from the Football League.

The EFL has announced that Jonathan Taylor, an expert in sport governance who worked on the Callum Hawkins case for the international athletics body the IAAF, will carry out the review. He will examine all the regulations and procedures concerning the financial sustainability of the Football League’s 72 member clubs, including the owners’ and directors’ test, which has been the target for sustained criticism for being inadequate.

Bury last week became the first club to be expelled from the League since 1992 when the owner, Steve Dale, missed a final deadline to prove he could fund the Sky Bet League One club this season or sell it to somebody who could.

The Times revealed this week that many staff and players are missing thousands of pounds in pension payments, while monies totalling £115,000 were paid out to Dale this year. Dale, who bought the club for £1 in December from property developer Stewart Day, said the money was passed on to third parties.

The EFL said in a statement: “The review will consider the lessons to be learned from the financial difficulties of Bury, and will seek to identify changes that help to ensure that similar problems do not occur in the future.”

The first phase of the inquiry will focus on the background to Bury’s insolvency, including the ownership of the club and funding arrangements.
The statement added: “It will also consider the role of the EFL’s regulations, including the application of the owners’ and directors’ test, procedures in respect of financial viability and the approach to insolvent clubs and the EFL’s efforts to help secure a long-term future for Bury.”

Taylor’s final report will “focus on the effectiveness of the EFL’s regulations and procedures in ensuring the financial sustainability of EFL clubs”.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:39 am

It's on the Magic Money Tree thread but I will put it here for many who don't read that

The Price of Football investigate to find out just how bad Bury's finances were and in comparison to others in the lower leagues

http://priceoffootball.com/bury-another ... -the-wall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:38 am

Again it's on the Magic Money Tree thread but I will put it here for many who don't read that

More on the sorry tale at Bury - Stewart Day's Mederco has been in admin for some time and have just published an updated report @KieranMaguirre takes a look

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/statu ... 0045246469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Chester Perry » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:56 am

EDIT - oops wrong thread :oops: :oops:

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:54 pm

Ultimately I hope some folk get prosecuted for what's gone on at Bury. It stinks to high heaven. I would say start with Dale, but Day is clearly up his neck in it too and this Wiseman guy must be an accountant to "The Mob" in another life! Get him struck off!

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:26 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Ultimately I hope some folk get prosecuted for what's gone on at Bury. It stinks to high heaven. I would say start with Dale, but Day is clearly up his neck in it too and this Wiseman guy must be an accountant to "The Mob" in another life! Get him struck off!
You would hope there would be prosecutions. It’s appalling what’s gone on there.
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Andingle
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Andingle » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:28 am

I have received the following motion from Bury Councillor James Daly, which he has asked me to share on social media. This motion is due to be heard in a council meeting this evening ,which will either supported or rejected by Bury Councillors.

BURY COUNCIL wishes to place on record it’s disgust at the financial demise of Bury Football Club and disappointment at the decision of the English Football League to expel the Club from League 1.
Council notes the continuing importance of Bury Football Club and there Gigg Lane home to the cultural, social and economic life of our Borough, and to the lives of many Bury residents as it has been for the last 134 years.
Council wishes to do everything it can to assist all those fighting to ensure Bury FC rejoin the Football League either this season or in League 2 for the 2020 / 21 season.
Council notes that the EFL in a recent statement indicated that it was consulting with other league clubs on the future of Bury Football Club and have stressed that clear evidence would be needed of the club’s financial viability going forward by September the 21st.
Council notes the unsuccessful efforts of numerous potential buyers for the club and Gigg Lane and is disappointed that no credible party has managed to purchase the club with time now running out.
THIS COUNCIL therefore resolves to:
1. Instruct the Chief Executive and Chief Financial Officer of Bury MBC within 24 hours of this Motion to contact those parties who represent the interests of Bury Football Club Limited to express the wish of this Council to enter into negotiations for the purchase of Bury Football Club Limited in totality or of the Gigg Lane site in isolation.
2. Within 7 days of this Motion for the Chief Executive and Chief Financial Officer of this Council to take what steps necessary to enter into negotiations for the purchase of Bury Football Club Limited or the Gigg Lane site in isolation and by the close of business on Wednesday 18th September to have secured a figure for the purchase of the aforementioned.
3. By the close of business on Thursday 19th September the Chief Executive and Chief Financial Officer of the Council will inform all councillors of the outcome of negotiations and produce a business plan regarding the potential purchase for all councillors to consider.
4. To instruct the Chief Executive within 24 hours of this Motion to contact the Chair of the English Football League to inform the aforementioned of this Motion and the timeframe Council has put on officers to bring back to Council a credible plan for the purchase of Bury Football Club Limited and request that the 21st September deadline be extended to allow the proper due diligence to take place and allow for the proper conclusion of negotiations between the parties.
5. That an extraordinary meeting of Council be heard at the earliest appropriate date for Council to vote on any proposed purchase of Bury Football Club and / or its assets including Gigg Lane and to confirm prior to the aforementioned vote with the EFL that Bury Football Club would be readmitted to the Football League if Council approved the purchase.
6. Instruct the Chief Executive and members of the Senior Management Team to approach Forever Bury, other supporter groups, local business people and interested parties over the next 7 days to discuss the potential for the Council to work in partnership and if possible produce a joint financial bid for the club.

bodge
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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by bodge » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:52 am

Good luck to them, must admit I wasn’t aware of the 21st Sept deadline.

Personally think the horse may have bolted to use the Blackburn vernacular.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:00 pm

That seems a bit strange, a council buying a football club seems like something that could open a whole can of worms.

I could understand them buying the ground but the club too is going to lead to problems.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by FCBurnley » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:08 pm

Too little too late from Bury Council. Had more than enough time to save the club if that was their wish. Just trying to look good imo

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by duncandisorderly » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:16 pm

aggi wrote:That seems a bit strange, a council buying a football club seems like something that could open a whole can of worms.

I could understand them buying the ground but the club too is going to lead to problems.

In what way?

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Sausage » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:20 pm

Seems slightly odd that, in such financially straitened circumstances, Bury Council has enough surplus cash to buy not just a football stadium but also a football club with significant debts.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by aggi » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:20 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:In what way?
If the club requires funding will the council divert funds away from things they fund at the moment? Cutting down on refuse collection to sign a player won't go down well with a lot of people. Or will they increase council tax which I imagine would go down even worse.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by dsr » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:43 pm

I could see the council buying the ground (would compulsory purchase be possible?) and leasing it to a Phoenix club in accordance with the covenant. But to rescue the existing club from its pit of corruption would be ridiculously expensive and pointless.

A phoenix club gives them the chance to start at level 8 or so, get huge gates for the level of competition, and build up some winning momentum for working their way back up the leagues.

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Re: Bury : No Wages

Post by Sausage » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:06 pm

dsr wrote:I could see the council buying the ground (would compulsory purchase be possible?) and leasing it to a Phoenix club in accordance with the covenant.
The use of a Compulsory Purchase Order is not an option. You can't forcibly buy land or property off someone because you don't like them or their motives. CPOs are used to acquire land for development where the owner is either unwilling to sell or is demanding a ludicrous price for the land and the land is necessary to deliver a tangible public benefit (i.e. betterment).

The Council might be better served by advising a Bury Fans Trust to register as a community group (possibly a charity) and requesting the Council to register Gigg Lane as an Asset of Community Value. This would give the fans the opportunity to put together a bid to buy the ground if the current owner ever wishes or is forced by creditors to sell. The designation of the stadium as an ACV, coupled with the enforceable covenant, would likely cause any speculative developer to run a mile, leaving the field free for the Fans Trust to buy the ground.

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