Game of Thrones on NOW TV

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:55 am

They could have spent some of the budget on a bit of lighting

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:11 pm

I have to say the overall battle scenes were a bit, well, confusing. Lots of darkness so you didn't have a clue who anyone was and it all seemed a little mad, then calm, then mad again which didn't strike me how the WW's would attack. The ending was brilliant though. Who made it? Who didn't? What next? Cersei going to get her ass kicked!!

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:39 pm

As above. That might as well have been a radio show it was that dark.
I always watch with sub-titles on and all I got was “thud”, “scream”, “screech”.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:39 pm

!!!SPOILERS!!!

The episode is dark and full of errors.

Ok, thing is, I enjoyed the episode, I cheered when Ayra killed the nightking with the same dagger drop that she used on Brienne. I was gripped for the full 1 hour 20 mins, it was a good, nay, great TV episode, but maybe a bad GOT episode.

Was that all there really was to the NK? A cookie cutter, Evil for Evil sake bad guy, are we not going to get any explanation (Other than Bran's short, “kill the memory of Men” from last episode) about who the NK was and why he uses the children of the forest symbolism other than it looks cool and they made him. GRRM and the GOT was built on subverting tropes, I.e Ned from S1 and the Red Wedding, I don't think this is the ending he had planned for the NK.

What about Azor Ahai and the Prince/ss that was promised, Beric and the Melisandre have both died, seemingly having their work completed with the death of the NK, is Ayra really AA?

What was Bran up to with the Raven warging? I thought maybe it was to show the NK where he was, but it seemed just to be a cool way of segwaying up to the shot of him launching the assault on the trenches.

It just seems that a lot of the deeper plot and lore to GOT has been subverted or ignored in this episode for a action packed, hour filled, quick lets wrap this show up ending.

And yes we got some deaths, but there was a few characters with some serious plot armour, how the hell Sam has survived I dont know, he was surrounded by WW about 5 times. Would it have killed them to kill of at least one of Brienne, Jaime or Poddrick? Or Tormound or Gendry? the Hound? Greyworm?

Far to many shots of people being surrounded and then we cut away, cut back and suddenly they're fine and there's only about a few WW around them, how did Jon survive the NK's awakening? Danny's landing? How did Jorah get to her?

Sometimes you can only suspend your disbelief for so much, even in a show with Zombie Kings, Dragons and Magic swords.

As for general battle tactics, lets stand our army in front of the walls, in front of the flaming trenches and only fire our arterially once, not a great episode for anyone that dabbles in Military history.

- - -

It was beautifully shot, some scenes were truly epic, the Dothraki lights going out, the Unsullied trying to hold the charge, Melisandre lighting the fires, (her slight waiving of faith, matched in Greyworms perhaps faltering courage and Ayra at one point looking like she might not be enjoying seeing the face of death after all), Lyanna Mormont taking down Giant RIP.
Theon's end was suitable heroic, as was Jorah's. Sansa and Tyrion's dialogue was a nice change of pace (unlike Ayra' weird library minigame). The Dragon shots in the sky could have been paintings. And it was actually beautifully lighted, IF you could turn the brightness up a little.

Final mention to the score, sounded to me a lot like the music from the S6E10, the first 20 minutes leading up to Cersei destroying the Sept of Baelor, just lower. And both that and this were directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

The episode is getting a lot of heat from more hardcore fans and I can see why, like Faramir taking the ring in LotR, (the directors said this was the GOT Helm's Deep), it just seems they misunderstood or didn't care about the deeper world.

And I love the character Ayra, but I do wish that that final shot was of the NK straggling / Freezing her to death, perhaps with the freeze going up her trapped arm, him doing the same smile that he gave Danny. Only for her to drop the dagger into her other one.

TL/DR, 9/10 for effects 3/10 for plot.

!!!SPOLIERS ABOVE!!!

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:53 pm

Such a good summary, not to mention the completely unnecessary sacrifice of the dothraki

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:54 pm

SonofPog wrote:!!!SPOILERS!!!

The episode is dark and full of errors.

Ok, thing is, I enjoyed the episode, I cheered when Ayra killed the nightking with the same dagger drop that she used on Brienne. I was gripped for the full 1 hour 20 mins, it was a good, nay, great TV episode, but maybe a bad GOT episode.

Was that all there really was to the NK? A cookie cutter, Evil for Evil sake bad guy, are we not going to get any explanation (Other than Bran's short, “kill the memory of Men” from last episode) about who the NK was and why he uses the children of the forest symbolism other than it looks cool and they made him. GRRM and the GOT was built on subverting tropes, I.e Ned from S1 and the Red Wedding, I don't think this is the ending he had planned for the NK.

What about Azor Ahai and the Prince/ss that was promised, Beric and the Melisandre have both died, seemingly having their work completed with the death of the NK, is Ayra really AA?

What was Bran up to with the Raven warging? I thought maybe it was to show the NK where he was, but it seemed just to be a cool way of segwaying up to the shot of him launching the assault on the trenches.

It just seems that a lot of the deeper plot and lore to GOT has been subverted or ignored in this episode for a action packed, hour filled, quick lets wrap this show up ending.

And yes we got some deaths, but there was a few characters with some serious plot armour, how the hell Sam has survived I dont know, he was surrounded by WW about 5 times. Would it have killed them to kill of at least one of Brienne, Jaime or Poddrick? Or Tormound or Gendry? the Hound? Greyworm?

Far to many shots of people being surrounded and then we cut away, cut back and suddenly they're fine and there's only about a few WW around them, how did Jon survive the NK's awakening? Danny's landing? How did Jorah get to her?

Sometimes you can only suspend your disbelief for so much, even in a show with Zombie Kings, Dragons and Magic swords.

As for general battle tactics, lets stand our army in front of the walls, in front of the flaming trenches and only fire our arterially once, not a great episode for anyone that dabbles in Military history.

- - -

It was beautifully shot, some scenes were truly epic, the Dothraki lights going out, the Unsullied trying to hold the charge, Melisandre lighting the fires, (her slight waiving of faith, matched in Greyworms perhaps faltering courage and Ayra at one point looking like she might not be enjoying seeing the face of death after all), Lyanna Mormont taking down Giant RIP.
Theon's end was suitable heroic, as was Jorah's. Sansa and Tyrion's dialogue was a nice change of pace (unlike Ayra' weird library minigame). The Dragon shots in the sky could have been paintings. And it was actually beautifully lighted, IF you could turn the brightness up a little.

Final mention to the score, sounded to me a lot like the music from the S6E10, the first 20 minutes leading up to Cersei destroying the Sept of Baelor, just lower. And both that and this were directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

The episode is getting a lot of heat from more hardcore fans and I can see why, like Faramir taking the ring in LotR, (the directors said this was the GOT Helm's Deep), it just seems they misunderstood or didn't care about the deeper world.

And I love the character Ayra, but I do wish that that final shot was of the NK straggling / Freezing her to death, perhaps with the freeze going up her trapped arm, him doing the same smile that he gave Danny. Only for her to drop the dagger into her other one.

TL/DR, 9/10 for effects 3/10 for plot.

!!!SPOLIERS ABOVE!!!

why the **** would you post spoilers and your rundown before people have watched it ? selfish much

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:56 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:why the **** would you post spoilers and your rundown before people have watched it ? selfish much

Maybe snip them from your post, and dont read them?

People who haven't watched it will be avoiding all social media like it's the plague, so surely they'll avoid a thread literally titled "Game of Thrones", and if they're silly enough not to then they'll see "SPOILERS" in big black letters at the top of the post. If they continue to read on even then then they really only have themselves to blame.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:06 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:why the **** would you post spoilers and your rundown before people have watched it ? selfish much

Firstly, apologies if i've spoilt it for you. That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry.

I just wanted to discuss the latest episode and my thoughts around it with like minded GOT fans and as it came out yesterday/earlier today, I thought I was safe to do so.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:08 pm

SonofPog wrote:Firstly, apologies if i've spoilt it for you. That wasn't my intention and I'm sorry.

I just wanted to discuss the latest episode and my thoughts around it with like minded GOT fans and as it came out yesterday/earlier today, I thought I was safe to do so.

you haven't spoilt it for me, I watch it live East coast time, but you could well spoil it for others - my point was merely it would be better to post what you've posted after tonight when everyone else has watched it - that may also lead to people debating your post etc

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:17 pm

Really poor IMO, such an anti-climax and kind of ruins 7 seasons of big build up.

Stickers · Post by **Stickers** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:15 pm

Most of it was so dark I’d of been better listening to an audiobook.
Disappointing. Expected so much more.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:23 pm

Stickers wrote:Most of it was so dark I’d of been better listening to an audiobook.
Disappointing. Expected so much more.

That's what I said to the mrs, far too dark for long periods but maybe that was the mood they wanted to create. Didn't spoil it for me

Stickers · Post by **Stickers** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:31 pm

But it leaves you guessing and trying to work out what’s happening, like a budget horror flick. Could/Should of been so much more, bit like being lost in a dark forest with only 1 candle to find your way.
Yes I enjoyed it but it did leave me underwhelmed after 7 years of build up.
Does this mean Spring Is Here ??

Venkys4eva · Post by **Venkys4eva** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 6:41 pm

SonofPog wrote:!!!SPOILERS!!!

The episode is dark and full of errors.

Ok, thing is, I enjoyed the episode, I cheered when Ayoora killed the nightking with the same dagger drop that she used on Brienne. I was gripped for the full 1 hour 20 mins, it was a good, nay, great TV episode, but maybe a bad GOT episode.

Was that all there really was to the NK? A cookie cutter, Evil for Evil sake bad guy, are we not going to get any explanation (Other than Bran's short, “kill the memory of Men” from last episode) about who the NK was and why he uses the children of the forest symbolism other than it looks cool and they made him. GRRM and the GOT was built on subverting tropes, I.e Ned from S1 and the Red Wedding, I don't think this is the ending he had planned for the NK.

What about Azor Ahai and the Prince/ss that was promised, Beric and the Melisandre have both died, seemingly having their work completed with the death of the NK, is Ayra really AA?

What was Bran up to with the Raven warging? I thought maybe it was to show the NK where he was, but it seemed just to be a cool way of segwaying up to the shot of him launching the assault on the trenches.

It just seems that a lot of the deeper plot and lore to GOT has been subverted or ignored in this episode for a action packed, hour filled, quick lets wrap this show up ending.

And yes we got some deaths, but there was a few characters with some serious plot armour, how the hell Sam has survived I dont know, he was surrounded by WW about 5 times. Would it have killed them to kill of at least one of Brienne, Jaime or Poddrick? Or Tormound or Gendry? the Hound? Greyworm?

Far to many shots of people being surrounded and then we cut away, cut back and suddenly they're fine and there's only about a few WW around them, how did Jon survive the NK's awakening? Danny's landing? How did Jorah get to her?

Sometimes you can only suspend your disbelief for so much, even in a show with Zombie Kings, Dragons and Magic swords.

As for general battle tactics, lets stand our army in front of the walls, in front of the flaming trenches and only fire our arterially once, not a great episode for anyone that dabbles in Military history.

- - -

It was beautifully shot, some scenes were truly epic, the Dothraki lights going out, the Unsullied trying to hold the charge, Melisandre lighting the fires, (her slight waiving of faith, matched in Greyworms perhaps faltering courage and Ayra at one point looking like she might not be enjoying seeing the face of death after all), Lyanna Mormont taking down Giant RIP.
Theon's end was suitable heroic, as was Jorah's. Sansa and Tyrion's dialogue was a nice change of pace (unlike Ayra' weird library minigame). The Dragon shots in the sky could have been paintings. And it was actually beautifully lighted, IF you could turn the brightness up a little.

Final mention to the score, sounded to me a lot like the music from the S6E10, the first 20 minutes leading up to Cersei destroying the Sept of Baelor, just lower. And both that and this were directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

The episode is getting a lot of heat from more hardcore fans and I can see why, like Faramir taking the ring in LotR, (the directors said this was the GOT Helm's Deep), it just seems they misunderstood or didn't care about the deeper world.

And I love the character Ayra, but I do wish that that final shot was of the NK straggling / Freezing her to death, perhaps with the freeze going up her trapped arm, him doing the same smile that he gave Danny. Only for her to drop the dagger into her other one.

TL/DR, 9/10 for effects 3/10 for plot.

!!!SPOLIERS ABOVE!!!

Thanks for the spoliers! I don’t watch this s*** but the wife does and im now winding her up asking her who Ayra is

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:00 pm

Agree it was too dark, as was ep1, you have to watch it in the dark to have any chance of seeing anything.
The comments of Sonof Pog are understandable , but when the series has to be finished before the cast grow too old, it was inevitable that it would be squeezed. I was more disappointed by series 7 though, than this one.
I watched it on my own and was screaming at the telly, as if I was watching the football. No other TV series could do that.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:01 pm

***SPOILERS***

Stickers wrote:But it leaves you guessing and trying to work out what’s happening, like a budget horror flick. Could/Should of been so much more, bit like being lost in a dark forest with only 1 candle to find your way.
Yes I enjoyed it but it did leave me underwhelmed after 7 years of build up.
Does this mean Spring Is Here ??

Most of the show has been about the Iron Throne. I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get to find out more about how the peace came about between the Night King and Men in the first place, and what broke it, but I am glad that we now have 6 hours of finding out what happens to the leadership of the 7 Kingdoms.

As for the NK and his sudden demise, we'd been told a few times to expect that killing him kills them all so we should have been expecting that was how it had to happen. Beric told Jon this in season 7 in Beyond The Wall so i'm not sure it's really fair to say it's an anti-climax when that's what happened since, not only were we told that's how it'd happen, it was really the only possible way to win against an enemy that can just keep raising the dead to fight for him until everyone's dead. The real climax to the NK arc was who it would be that kills him, and i'm satisfied that it was Arya.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Venkys4eva wrote:Thanks for the spoliers! I don’t watch this s*** but the wife does and im now winding her up asking her who Ayra is

Please don't even joke about spoilers to your wife. If you spoil it and she cuts your balls off in your sleep i'll provide her an alibi.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Please don't even joke about spoilers to your wife. If you spoil it and she cuts your balls off in your sleep i'll provide her an alibi.

: wow-that-escalated-quickly.png (168.24 KiB) Viewed 2241 times

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:***SPOILERS***

Most of the show has been about the Iron Throne. I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get to find out more about how the peace came about between the Night King and Men in the first place, and what broke it, but I am glad that we now have 6 hours of finding out what happens to the leadership of the 7 Kingdoms.

***SPOILERS***

Thing is while people have squabbled over the throne the smart people have been saying all along "This doesn't matter, the dead are coming for us" which is why I find the demise of this epic threat so hollow.
I don't really care who gets the Iron Throne as the history of Westeros is all about it changing hands. The interesting part was all it happening at the same time a new existential threat emerged.

I was waiting and waiting to see what Bran was up to, what powers can he summon? How will Melisandra's magic help? A song of Ice & Fire, if the NK is the Ice surely Danny or John are the fi... oh wait, someone's leaped out of literally nowhere and shanked him... great...

If you're going to do a Deus Ex Machina (God in the Machine), then make it the Lord of Light, or the Old Gods, something! At least that would have been cool and suitable fitting for what was potentially the end of the world at the hands of a magic daemon.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:03 pm

Venkys4eva wrote:Thanks for the spoliers! I don’t watch this s*** but the wife does and im now winding her up asking her who Ayra is

I don't know who Ayra is either and I've been watching it since the beginning.

CombatClaret wrote:***SPOILERS***

Thing is while people have squabbled over the throne the smart people have been saying all along "This doesn't matter, the dead are coming for us" which is why I find the demise of this epic threat so hollow.

I was waiting and waiting to see what Bran was up to, what powers can he summon? How will Melisandra's magic help? Wait, a song of Ice & Fire, if the NK is the Ice surely Danny or John are the fi... oh wait, someone's leaped out of literally nowhere and shanked him... great...

If you're going to do a Deus Ex Machina (God in the Machine), then make it the Lord of Light, or the Old Gods, something. At least that would have been cool and suitable fitting for what was potentially the end of the world.

Arya killing the Night King wasn't a Deus Ex MAchina, it's was built up to throughout the episode and even the whole series.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:08 pm

CombatClaret wrote:***SPOILERS***

Thing is while people have squabbled over the throne the smart people have been saying all along "This doesn't matter, the dead are coming for us" which is why I find the demise of this epic threat so hollow.

I was waiting and waiting to see what Bran was up to, what powers can he summon? How will Melisandra's magic help? Wait, a song of Ice & Fire, if the NK is the Ice surely Danny or John are the fi... oh wait, someone's leaped out of literally nowhere and shanked him... great...

If you're going to do a Deus Ex Machina (God in the Machine), then make it the Lord of Light, or the Old Gods, something. At least that would have been cool and suitable fitting for what was potentially the end of the world.

***SPOILERS***

The song of Ice and Fire has been pretty clearly Jon (ice) and Dany (Fire) for a long time. And i don't think this counts ad Deus Ex Machina since we saw her set off. When Beric dies Melisandre says that he was brought back 9 times to save Arya so that she can then kill the NK. We didn't know that's where she was going at the time, but it wasn't out of nowhere.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:12 pm

Tall Paul wrote: Arya killing the Night King wasn't a Deus Ex MAchina, it's was built up to throughout the episode and even the whole series.

Melisandra said something but she say's a lot of things, most of which were BS. You could argue, "yes but it was all to get people to that place..."

If, If, they had showed Arya using her Faceless God power that would not been so much of a cop out. Bran leaps up and Stabs NK, peels back his face OMG they switched.
But that she just appears... Terrible writing.

Imploding Turtle wrote: We didn't know that's where she was going at the time, it wasn't out of nowhere.

Just because we knew where she came doesn't make her appearance in mid air was stupid when in the middle of a clearing with so many bad guys around. Even If they showed her climbing the tree, because it's her childhood home, she knows it better than anyone that would have been slightly better.

IMO I've offered two better alternatives to what happened. They justify the action.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:24 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Melisandra said something but she say's a lot of things, most of which were BS. You could argue, "yes but it was all to get people to that place..."

If, If, they had showed Arya using her Faceless God power that would not been so much of a cop out. Bran leaps up and Stabs NK, peels back his face OMG they switched.
But that she just appears... Terrible writing.

Terrible writing.
Ned Stark losing his head
The Red Wedding
The whole point of George R R Martin is he doesn't do prissy writing. He doesn't run with obvious cliches just to satisfy the reader, he makes it more realistic. In the real world heroes sometimes die, baddies sometimes win, the good guys often have weaknesses, the bad guys sometimes show a soft side and nobody knows what the **** is going to happen next.
That's great writing.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:28 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Terrible writing.
Ned Stark losing his head
The Red Wedding
The whole point of George R R Martin is he doesn't do prissy writing. He doesn't run with obvious cliches just to satisfy the reader, he makes it more realistic. In the real world heroes sometimes die, baddies sometimes win, the good guys often have weaknesses, the bad guys sometimes show a soft side and nobody knows what the **** is going to happen next.
That's great writing.

Talking episode specific.
And what we saw was not written by RR Martin, it was done by two blokes from HBO.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:00 pm

***SPOILERS***

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Well I thought that was bloody brilliant!

Venkys4eva · Post by **Venkys4eva** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Please don't even joke about spoilers to your wife. If you spoil it and she cuts your balls off in your sleep i'll provide her an alibi.

Thats what she said

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:10 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Melisandra said something but she say's a lot of things, most of which were BS. You could argue, "yes but it was all to get people to that place..."

If, If, they had showed Arya using her Faceless God power that would not been so much of a cop out. Bran leaps up and Stabs NK, peels back his face OMG they switched.
But that she just appears... Terrible writing.

That would be terrible writing. She can only wear faces of people who are dead.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:14 pm

Tall Paul wrote:That would be terrible writing. She can only wear faces of people who are dead.

Could easily argue Brandon Stark is dead, the character we see is the three eyed raven. He's always telling people essentially this.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:21 pm

SPOILERS...

Why did the Dothraki charge away from the main group?
Why were the ballistas in front of the unsullied?
Why did the ballistas stop firing?
Why did they build a trench that could be so easily bridged?
Why did they fight outside the castle?
Why didn't they clear the remains from the crypt before fighting someone who can re-animate the dead?
How could the dead in the crypt break through marble when the wight last series couldn't break through a wooden box?
How did Jorah know where Daeny was?
How did he get to her?
Why did the giant pick up the Mormont girl and bring her to his face?
Why didn't they retreat into the Godswood to reinforce the Ironborn?
Why did Bran warg into some crows?
Why didn’t the dragon just bite the Night King's head off?
Where did Arya come from?
Why did Melissandre kill herself?
Why did Jon Snow scream at a dragon?

And the age-old, still-unanswered favourite...

Who attached the chains to that sunken dragon?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:22 pm

cool behind the scenes vid
https://www.facebook.com/GoTBehindTheSc ... 989190841/

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:27 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Talking episode specific.
And what we saw was not written by RR Martin, it was done by two blokes from HBO.

Yep, when the series outpaced the books the plotting became ridiculously lazy.

When you write a book you play out all the scenes in your head so they make sense, these guys just seem to put together a load of "cool visuals" and half an hour after watching the episode you begin to realise how lax it was.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:28 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:SPOILERS...
Why did the ballistas stop firing?

About the only one I could answer, once the Dothraki engaged they ceased fire to avoid hitting they're own people?

Why they fired and charged an enemy they couldn't see is the bigger question. Also as they were trebuchets nothing to say they couldn't have been inside the walls

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:32 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:The books are garbage, a five-year-old writes better prose.

The best thing about the series is that I'll never have to read another one of those god-awful books.

Check how many times per page he writes "little or less" or "much and more".

Disagree. Most people will.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:35 pm

CombatClaret wrote:About the only one I could answer, once the Dothraki engaged they ceased fire to avoid hitting they're own people?

Why they fired and charged an enemy they couldn't see is the bigger question. Also as they were trebuchets nothing to say they couldn't have been inside the walls

The Dothraki were sacrificed for a cool visual, all 40,000 of them.

As if you spend your cavalry on a blind charge in the first wave.

Enjoyable spectacle but utter rubbish.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:41 pm

Claretmatt4 wrote:Disagree. Most people will.

No they won't, most people agree that the books are very badly written, it's hardly something you can dispute...

"Prose:

His prose is all over the place. At its best it seems highly influenced by Robert E Howard with a dash of Jack Vance. For most of Game of Thrones, it is awkward, at best. Afterwards he seems to work a little harder on it and it approaches, Tolkien or Howard’s best. (Who, after all, are not really great stylists themselves.)

But this quality is very inconsistent, owing in part to the fact that different point of views are, naturally, written in slightly different styles. This is probably the least important criterion for a genre fiction writer, anyway. He is still better than your average fantasy/sci-fi writer."

"From a purely prose point of view, it’s honestly not the best. He’s not big on flowery language or poetry and he has a really bad tendency to overuse certain turns of phrase (this is brutally evident in the fifth book; no one gives a **** where whores go, George). The fact that everyone dissects the crap out of anything he writes means there’s no room for continuity errors (see: Jeyne Westerling). Structurally it looks like an editor at one point should have told him no but didn’t (at the turning point where the story seemingly got away from him, somewhere in the Feast/Dance part of the process).

This is not written in the form of high art. It’s not Proust or Faulkner or Tolstoy or, ahem, Tolkien. It’s often short and coarse and just as often meandering and shiftless. But its writing style reflects the sort of story it is: This is fantasy covered in dirt and blood and grime and it’s not always straightforward or pretty. And what GRRM lacks in prose he makes up for in other ways: characterization, backstory-building and a pretty staggering use of symbolism and inside-baseball jokes. If it came down to having the story be written in a higher form of prose, or keeping things like food, color and sigil symbolism and the numerous wordplays, I’d not hesitate to prefer the latter for this story."

"Let’s be honest: the style breaks every rule I’ve been told a writer should have. Too many adjectives; too much telling rather than showing; dangling modifiers; not enough difference between the POVs of different characters. If George Martin wrote the first chapter of GOT for an assignment in an undergraduate English class, it would be riddled with so much red ink as to be unreadable."

"I am a huge fan of the works, but there are some cringe-worthy, modern aspects that disrupt the story in my mind… the use of certain colloquialisms, such as the word “butt” (I think in the first or second book), is a real problem for me. It’s entirely too modern of a slang to have in such a series, I was taught to never use such words in story-telling at all, so maybe that’s my bias. Another thing I noticed in my reading of A World of Ice and Fire, was a not so subtle Sesame Street reference where one “Lord Elmo” had a son called “Kermit” or something equally silly. To me, that just seems really lazy and for all the work that he has put into story-telling, little things like that derail the literary value of the series."

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 pm

I can only concur with most of the above. It felt rushed and a complete step away from GRRM, moreso than usual.

Good TV but not good Game of Thrones.

The dragons were virtually absent as well. Its meant to be a dance of dragons ffs!

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:47 pm

Wow possibly the best 2 hours of my viewing history

What a program

And another 6 hours until its conclusion

Can see plenty of spin offs prequels etc once this is all done. Its a cash machine

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:50 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:No they won't, most people agree that the books are very badly written, it's hardly something you can dispute...

"Prose:

His prose is all over the place. At its best it seems highly influenced by Robert E Howard with a dash of Jack Vance. For most of Game of Thrones, it is awkward, at best. Afterwards he seems to work a little harder on it and it approaches, Tolkien or Howard’s best. (Who, after all, are not really great stylists themselves.)

But this quality is very inconsistent, owing in part to the fact that different point of views are, naturally, written in slightly different styles. This is probably the least important criterion for a genre fiction writer, anyway. He is still better than your average fantasy/sci-fi writer."

"From a purely prose point of view, it’s honestly not the best. He’s not big on flowery language or poetry and he has a really bad tendency to overuse certain turns of phrase (this is brutally evident in the fifth book; no one gives a **** where whores go, George). The fact that everyone dissects the crap out of anything he writes means there’s no room for continuity errors (see: Jeyne Westerling). Structurally it looks like an editor at one point should have told him no but didn’t (at the turning point where the story seemingly got away from him, somewhere in the Feast/Dance part of the process).

This is not written in the form of high art. It’s not Proust or Faulkner or Tolstoy or, ahem, Tolkien. It’s often short and coarse and just as often meandering and shiftless. But its writing style reflects the sort of story it is: This is fantasy covered in dirt and blood and grime and it’s not always straightforward or pretty. And what GRRM lacks in prose he makes up for in other ways: characterization, backstory-building and a pretty staggering use of symbolism and inside-baseball jokes. If it came down to having the story be written in a higher form of prose, or keeping things like food, color and sigil symbolism and the numerous wordplays, I’d not hesitate to prefer the latter for this story."

"Let’s be honest: the style breaks every rule I’ve been told a writer should have. Too many adjectives; too much telling rather than showing; dangling modifiers; not enough difference between the POVs of different characters. If George Martin wrote the first chapter of GOT for an assignment in an undergraduate English class, it would be riddled with so much red ink as to be unreadable."

"I am a huge fan of the works, but there are some cringe-worthy, modern aspects that disrupt the story in my mind… the use of certain colloquialisms, such as the word “butt” (I think in the first or second book), is a real problem for me. It’s entirely too modern of a slang to have in such a series, I was taught to never use such words in story-telling at all, so maybe that’s my bias. Another thing I noticed in my reading of A World of Ice and Fire, was a not so subtle Sesame Street reference where one “Lord Elmo” had a son called “Kermit” or something equally silly. To me, that just seems really lazy and for all the work that he has put into story-telling, little things like that derail the literary value of the series."

Its all about opinion. I loved the books and the world that was created. Most people do. It's well regarded and like more things we'll regarded youre going to get people who think it's ****. That's fine.

Vintage Claret · Post by **Vintage Claret** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:51 pm

martin_p wrote:Well I thought that was bloody brilliant!

Me too!

I've never read the books so taking the series at face value as TV entertainment thoroughly enjoyed that episode for action and suspense.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:02 pm

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:SPOILERS...

Why did the Dothraki charge away from the main group?
Why were the ballistas in front of the unsullied?
Why did the ballistas stop firing?
Why did they build a trench that could be so easily bridged?
Why did they fight outside the castle?
Why didn't they clear the remains from the crypt before fighting someone who can re-animate the dead?
How could the dead in the crypt break through marble when the wight last series couldn't break through a wooden box?
How did Jorah know where Daeny was?
How did he get to her?
Why did the giant pick up the Mormont girl and bring her to his face?
Why didn't they retreat into the Godswood to reinforce the Ironborn?
Why did Bran warg into some crows?
Why didn’t the dragon just bite the Night King's head off?
Where did Arya come from?
Why did Melissandre kill herself?
Why did Jon Snow scream at a dragon?

And the age-old, still-unanswered favourite...

Who attached the chains to that sunken dragon?

The answer to each of the questions above is ‘because it’s a tv show trying to entertain its audience’.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:41 am

Astounding. One of the best things I've watched on TV. Not joking, but your TV's grayscale (not to be confused with Westeros' 'greyscale') and contrast ratio will have an impact on your enjoyment of some parts of the episode, which is an oversight on the part of post-production, but when the plot leads towards a night-time blizzard it's a somewhat unavoidable, if not exonerating, nuisance.

That technical point aside, I'm firmly in the camp that, in spite of the fact this is an adaptation from a series of novels, GOT the TV show is fundamentally a visual performance medium, and, sacrilegious and heretical as this opinion may be, the entire plot is a vehicle for cinematic sequences. 2001 isn't 2001 without its cinematography. The Blade Runner films aren't the Blade Runner films without their cinematic sequences; sound and images composited in a way which make you $hit yourself - this is what we're buying into. This is why we watch films and TV. Otherwise we'd read all day. There's more to cinema (read, visual media) than continuity and logic and narrative. Of course, the line is crossed when your immersion is broken, but do any of the points raised above truthfully break immersion? The roughly ten-minute 'it's all going to $hit' sequence at the end was perfect. Absolutely perfect. I even think it about justifies the underwhelming 'Beyond The Wall' episode, an episode which truly did break immersion for a swathe of reasons without giving anything, cinematically or emotionally, in return for narrative expedition.

NB, just to add, (and I don't mean to pick on SonofPog specifically because the point he has raised is raised often, but) 'plot armour' is an utterly guff form of critique. If it weren't for 'plot armour' Captain Miller wouldn't have survived D-Day and Private Ryan probably never sees his Mum again. People die. This is realistic. Other people survive. This is also realistic. Sometimes, people survive against the odds. This is dramatic. Sometimes people survive against seemingly insurmountable odds. The ancient Greeks had a knack for making a story of this. We wouldn't write off the Homeric tales on account of 'plot armour'.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:43 am

I've just mocked someone for their maths but I've just realised i said there are 6 hours of GoT remaining because 1h 20 multiplied by 3 is not 360.
******* hell.

There are 4 hours left. 3 x 80 minute episodes.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:57 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Its all about opinion. I loved the books and the world that was created. Most people do. It's well regarded and like more things we'll regarded youre going to get people who think it's ****. That's fine.

I'm not arguing with that, I'm saying the writing is poor.

Writing is a technical skill, you either do it well like John Steinbeck, Mark Twain or JRR Tolkein or do it with your own style like Elmore Leanord, William Golding or you do it badly like George RR Martin.

Whether or not you like them makes no difference, I like it when my little boy does a finger-painting at school I can put on my fridge door. Does that make it an artistic masterpiece on a par with Picasso? Errr nope.

The next time you read a George RR Martin book look for the amount of times he uses the phrases, "little and less" and "much and more".

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:43 am

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:47 am

***Episode 4 spoiler***

I'm just stealing memes off /r/freefolk now.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:00 am

Very watchable

You did wonder if that was going to be it for all the characters that you probably like, which is an colossal achievement in itself and it now means that the field is clear for some proper GoT double crossing and unexpected deaths.

But it did feel fitting for the best character by a country mile to end it, and I reckon that makes her a cert now not to survive till the end. Bit of a #jobdone about it.

brigante · Post by **brigante** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:25 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:

Ha, this is probably a fair point.

I think my main beef with that bit was just how Arya was able to get to the NK through his hoarde of bodyguards. That said, given they may have had some form of stand down at that point as none of them went for Reek, maybe I should get over it.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am

**SPOILERS**

Watched Episode 3 last night, in a fairly dark room on a 40 inch TV so it was perfectly lit. Seen a few people in the newspaper reviews moaning they watched it on a train on their phone and couldn’t see anything. A bit daft.

Brilliant episode. So many other needless grumbles in the paper reviews, it’s all about opinions but I thought they did great. Criticisms I have read include:

Why did the Dothraki charge? Well, they are a darn cavalry. That’s what they do. Besides, that flame lighting and then slowly going out amidst the pitch blackness was a tremendous bit of cinematography.
Why did those in the crypt do nothing? I saw that as a metaphor for real wars and the people huddled away waiting for the rape and pillage to come. It felt suitably grim. There were so many real world metaphors wrapped into that, particularly the quiet wait at the beginning.
Why did Melisandre bring Jon back to life? Is he not the Prince that was Promised? Well, this whole episode wouldn’t have taken place if it weren’t for him forming an army. He was pivotal.
What is the point of Bran if he does nothing? Errrr, “have this dagger, it’s wasted on a cripple”, and great diversion making us think it was just to bump off Baylish.
Why did Bran not tell Theon to wait 10 seconds? Because he as crucial to delaying NK a bit longer. He also needed heroic redemption.
Why did the NK not fly straight to Kings Landing? Last I heard he didn’t have internet and Google Maps. He probably didn’t even know it existed, he was just systematically laying waste.
Why did they not give us clues before? Well, apparently it was decided 4 years ago to kill him in this way. Since then we have had many moments, the dagger handed over in that very spot, the hand switch move when training with Brianne, sneaking up on Jon in that very spot etc. Plenty of foreshadowing. It was right to make it obvious what would happen when Baric had his moment. Then, the drama was if others would get killed before she got chance to do it, a bit of an anti climax if the dead won the war so the NK was always going to die.
Why did only minor characters die? I wouldn’t call Melisandre minor, nor Jorah. Plus, who is to say we won’t discover some more gone when they comb through the bodies in episode 4, my money is on at last one hiding in the crypt.
Wasn’t it a bit easy to kill the Night King? OK, if you dismiss failing to kill him with dragon fire, and failing to kill him due to him raising all the dead, and failing to kill him with a spear. He was a hard ass. It took a trained assassin.

So I think they did a great job. Minor wrinkles (e.g. I thought initially Arya was disguised as that Walker who looked to the side, then I realised it couldn’t be because she didn’t have their face, but it didn’t make it clear). But an emotional hour of TV.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:32 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:**SPOILERS**

Wasn’t it a bit easy to kill the Night King? OK, if you dismiss failing to kill him with dragon fire, and failing to kill him due to him raising all the dead, and failing to kill him with a spear. He was a hard ass. It took a trained assassin.

He also doesn't take fall damage.