ARTICLE: Still hope for under-23s ahead of last game

[ClaretTony]

Under-23s play this afternoon at Charlton - a win could still see us finish top two

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[dpinsussex]

Stone, Cropper, Glennon, Howarth, Thomas, Wilson, Bayode, Trialist, Harker, Agyei, Conn-Clarke

Only 4 subs named Calderbank-Park, Perkins, Steels, Chakwana.

2 nil Charlton after 60 min
Agyei misses penalty just before half time

[ClaretTony]

2 nil Charlton after 60 min
Agyei misses penalty just before half time

I think we needed to win and by a few goals to put Birmingham under some pressure. Looks like we are going to finish fourth now.

[dpinsussex]

I think we needed to win and by a few goals to put Birmingham under some pressure. Looks like we are going to finish fourth now.

Sadly I think you are right Tony

[ClaretTony]

Now 3-0 - the U23s are nothing like the side they were early in the season when they were banging goals in for fun

[Woodleyclaret]

All the loaning out hasnt and chopping and changing hasnt helped

[JarrowClaret]

I see an appearance for the lesser spotted Vinnie Steels it would be interesting to know why he hasn’t been selected much this season.

An excellent season for the U23s for the most part it has been a young side really hides well hopefully.

[randomclaret2]

The U18s , who have also tailed off a bit, got beat 5-1 at Cardiff on Saturday. Havent seen it mentioned anywhere.

[Long Time Lurker]

In all fairness a lot of players have been released from the development squads in the last month or so. Obviously some players are going to be moved on at this time of year, but in terms of departures it has been something like a thresher through a wheat field. No wonder performances have dipped.

We released a lot of players from the U23's including Aiden Stone, Marley Blair, James Clarke, Ed Cook, Mark Howarth and Tinashe Chakwana. On top of that we also released Richard Taylor, Dan Moss, Oscar Woods, Ethan Kershaw, Terry Mupariwa, Dylon Meredith, and Michael Fowler. The futures of Scott Wilson and Adam Bruce are also up in the air.

Moving on 14-16 players was never going to be good for morale, especially when a lot of them have been on our books for awhile and the extensive cull included most of the second year scholars.

Adding in the questionable release of players like Fowler and Chakwana, who have played very well this season, the remaining young lads are probably shell shocked and wondering what is going on. I know I am. Fowlers departure was very strange given his performances and his young age.

I would have expected him to stay with us and move up or go out on loan next season. Failing that I would have thought extending his contract and selling him for nothing, but with a percentage of any future sale fee, would have been wiser than a free transfer which will gain us nothing if he develops into a good player.

Honestly, I can't understand the extensive axe swinging and I've tried to make some sense of it.

At the time we weren't guaranteed to stay in the Premier league, and mathematically we still aren't completely safe, so the argument that we did it to increase the quality of the youngsters coming through seemed a tad premature. Had we dropped the level of competition would have also dropped and we can't be certain that isn't going to happen before the youngsters are ready, Mc Neil is the rare exception not the rule.

I narrowed it down to four possible reasons.

Based on the success we experienced by throwing Dwight into the first team, with the "sink or swim" increased demands fuelling his development, we might be trying something similar with the rest of the youth set up. Creating space in the U23's and moving up players earlier than we normally would to see if it speeds up their development.

We might have created space in the U23's so we can bring in some of the attractive out of contract U23 players who are going to be available. Even if they are at the upper age threshold, ignoring the fact that we can include some players over 23, they would need a recognisable potential for playing time. Making space would satisfy that and give them a short time frame to become familiar with the club and stake a claim to a first team shirt, or prove themselves suitable for a development loan at a higher level than we normally secure for our young players.

They genuinely weren't going to be good enough. In which case why did we bring them in and how does that reflect on the scouting ability of the people who thought they were and got it wrong.

Lastly, we have lost the plot completely and just as things looked to be improving we have decided to ravage the youth setup once again for no understandable reason.

Personally, I don't think reason three holds a lot of weight and reason four would suggest that we haven't learnt anything from the past. So we can probably rule them out.

I could see the wisdom in reason one, but it could turn out to be a risky strategy. I'm crossing my fingers that reason two is at least part of our thinking, possibly working in tandem with reason one.

That would tie in well with the fact that we have recently made big changes to our recruitment model and it is largely untested. Along with any concerns that we might have about our new Technical Director in light of his past transfer dealings, strategic planning, reluctance to hit the ground running in the last window and the "baffling" Vokes transfer.

Arguably, we shouldn't have a lot to do in the next window. Apart from a couple of key first team additions and one or two players moving on. Without any urgent need for radical changes, it would make sense to test our new recruitment model by allocating £10m or so to the purchase of players for the development squads. Something of a "show us what you can" do trial run, before granting complete access to the purse strings at the risk of jeopardising the future of the club in the form of more pronounced first team transfer strategies.

If the new system can keep the majority of the current squad intact, improve it with a couple of new additions in key areas for respectable transfer fees, get good prices ( or make beneficial trades ) for any players that leave and increase the quality and depth of the development squads on a relatively small budget it would be a big confidence booster.

Even in the price inflated market of today £10m should be enough to make a very big difference in the form of four or five good youth prospects. Even if only one of them makes it through to the first team it would be money well spent.

I would rather see failure on that front, with the total loss of £10m, than failure on the first team front which could cost us our lucrative ticket on the Premier League gravy train. Putting aside performance considerations, we could easily lose more than £10m on the back of one or two statistical flops for the first team or half assed sales negotiations.

[randomclaret2]

Presumably the U23 and U18 sides we are playing at the moment have also released lots of players ?

[Long Time Lurker]

Presumably the U23 and U18 sides we are playing at the moment have also released lots of players ?

Yup, one would think so, and not just the teams in this country. Although most clubs do tend to keep hold of their best players for obvious reasons. Picking up one or two players from other clubs shouldn't be beyond us. In terms of spotting talent it would be a good way to test the new system. Although, data for younger players is obviously more limited and judging top end potential will always be something of a statistical crap shoot.

Still, considering our outgoings I would expect some interesting additions to the development squads. If all we do is add to the bottom rung of the age ladder with new prospects I will be a touch dissapointed. The further we descend the age ladder the more difficult it is to accurately quantify potential.

In recent weeks we have been linked to a few trialists like Ethan Sephton, Keziah Martin and Kane O'Connor. So we are going through the motions associated with bringing in some young players. However, I would like us to boost things by setting aside a specific transfer fund to buy young players for the development squads in every window. It's what every other club is doing.

Obviously, I don't mean taking huge financial gambles on super expensive potential world beaters. I'm talking about the sort of players who might be in the 20-22 age bracket and available on free transfers or younger players who would cost £1-2m or so, ideally below £1m. The type of players who have already demonstrated a degree of recognisable ability, by playing first team football in the Scottish leagues or other lesser leagues, but haven't attracted a lot of attention.

I think it would be interesting to give Steve Stone and Tony Philliskirk the opportunity to manage their squads as smaller units within a cohesive whole and that would be commensurate with giving each of them a small transfer kitty of their own to work with. The bulk of their signings will come from the usual new comers to the game freebies, but they could also have the funds to go out and buy a couple of players if they felt the additions could add to their squads and benefit the club in the longer term.

Limiting them to freebies must be very restrictive and every member of the club should have the opportunity to develop and grow within their own sphere, whether it is playing football, managing squads or boiling eggs.

Sometimes people put forward the argument that we are little old Burnley and quality players will always choose to sign with one of the bigger clubs. However, our small size should actually be a strong selling point. Join the meat markets of all the bigger clubs, have little to no chance of breaking into their first teams, spend years out loan and then get sold or released. In contrast any player coming here will have a much better chance of breaking through into the first team.

All of the current headlines surrounding Dwight ephasise that. We really should be capitalising on all that media buzz to attract young players, with Dwight as our poster boy for what can be achieved. Come to Burnley, if you are good enough you will play, it is in your hands.

We also have something of a reputation for going the extra mile to do right by our players in the event that things don't work out for them here. The recent mass cull might have tarnished that a bit, but thankfully quite a few of the released lads have found places with other clubs to continue their careers so it might not.

[Longsidelenny]

Long time lurker two fantastic posts

[JamesSherbourne]

2 great posts mate

[Longside4evr]

After say Long Time that's a really in depth explanation of what you see and i think you put a lot of effort into your knowledge of the club.
I have seen posters come on here and condemn your posts far to often, to me its lazy reading and they dont care to read into what your saying
Sometimes your post do stretch the boundaries but you get your points across and if that's how you see it then i for one read it keep up the good work and effort

[Longside4evr]

With us refurbishing the development squads we must be a top attraction to the parents of these kids and to the individuals them selves, if they care to see with our first team how many go on to the England set up or move on for big money once they've establish them selves here and do well
But also the club as to play its part in selling it to these young starlets and have a good eye to spot raw talent
Things have moved on from the scrapyard of a place Mr Howe left dismantled we are doing great guns this only bodes well and long may it continue.
Lets now step it up a gear while we are bearing fruit and in a good financial position exciting time ahead i predict

[bfccrazy]

With us refurbishing the development squads we must be a top attraction to the parents of these kids and to the individuals them selves, if they care to see with our first team how many go on to the England set up or move on for big money once they've establish them selves here and do well
But also the club as to play its part in selling it to these young starlets and have a good eye to spot raw talent
Things have moved on from the scrapyard of a place Mr Howe left dismantled we are doing great guns this only bodes well and long may it continue.
Lets now step it up a gear while we are bearing fruit and in a good financial position exciting time ahead i predict

Speaking to a lad who is in the youth set up recently and his dad. They were surprised about releasing Fowler etc .. but then said that the younger crop of players coming through are seen as being even better - the likes of Richardson etc would be breaking into the 1st team potentially the same time Fowler would have been if everything goes to plan so they’d rather concentrate on them.

The thing that shocked me was how much some of the youngsters are getting paid nowadays - a family friend was captain of the youth team through to scholar status a decade ago and players now who aren’t at that level yet are on 5x the money he was when playing for Burnley. It shows how much we have caught up to the bigger clubs when we have 16 year olds with pro agents who are already sponsored by big sports brands.

[dandeclaret]

Isn’t paying 1 or 2m what we did with the likes of Chris Long, Agyei and a couple of others who have slipped my mind? It can be a fruitless investment if there’s no clear development plan.

[ClaretTony]

I see an appearance for the lesser spotted Vinnie Steels it would be interesting to know why he hasn’t been selected much this season.

That's an easy one to answer - injured