Tonight's UCL Footy

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He scored with his hip.

Arm onto hip. Which means he scored a goal using his arm. I genuinely don’t know the rules, should that goal stand?

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 pm

Wow, what a game. Poor old Citeh.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 pm

Imagine what Spurs could become if they actually gave Pochettino a budget for players !

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Arm onto hip. Which means he scored a goal using his arm. I genuinely don’t know the rules, should that goal stand?

Yes. I still don't think it hit his arm, but if it did then he hasn't scored with his arm....if that's the the rule, which I don't think it is.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Arm onto hip. Which means he scored a goal using his arm. I genuinely don’t know the rules, should that goal stand?

100%, not intentional

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:01 pm

I think City were the team best equipped to beat Barca in the final. Reckon Barca will win it now.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:02 pm

Another rule I don’t understand - silly me - but I thought that it wasn’t offside if it was a deflection that played the ball to the attacking player?

Glad Spurs won btw.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Imagine what Spurs could become if they actually gave Pochettino a budget for players !

He's got a budget, I'm pretty sure he decided to stick with what he had and have faith in them.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:02 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Imagine what Spurs could become if they actually gave Pochettino a budget for players !

Nah, they'd just bottle it event more!

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 pm

Aren’t the rules next year that any contact with the arm is ruled out?

Personally, I think he got as much of his arm out of the way of the ball as he could. There was marginal contact near to his elbow then hip and in.

If it got scored against BFC, I wouldn’t be crowing about handball.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 pm

That was amazing.

And why VAR was bought in, but hell, can you imagine scoring in the last minute and it being ruled out after you'd screamed your head off and bounced around for two minutes?

Ouch

Claretincraven · Post by **Claretincraven** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 pm

Does that mean our game against Man City stops on the Sunday?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Yes. I still don't think it hit his arm, but if it did then he hasn't scored with his arm....if that's the the rule, which I don't think it is.

But if his arm diverted the ball onto his hip then he has indirectly scored with his arm. I’m not arguing for it, I’m trying to make sense of the handball law which I don’t think many people understand.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 pm

VAR won tonight. I hope it favours us next season.

burnmark · Post by **burnmark** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 pm

Goalposts wrote:nothing for me to recommend var tonight for next season

Massively for it. A team has gone through tonight deservedly that wouldn’t have done without it.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:05 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:100%, not intentional

It wasn’t intentional when Koscienly scored with his arm against us. I think it’s pretty clear that handballs don’t have to be intentional to be penalised.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:05 pm

Best game this season easily!!!

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Another rule I don’t understand - silly me - but I thought that it wasn’t offside if it was a deflection that played the ball to the attacking player?

Glad Spurs won btw.

Heh, I know, right?! The man city player made a deliberate movement towards the ball, it hit him, therefore offside. I think. I don't know either.
Smacks of Ashley Barnes vs Watford a year or two ago which was ruled out, but now wouldn't be. Again, I think.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Rileybobs wrote:It wasn’t intentional when Koscienly scored with his arm against us. I think it’s pretty clear that handballs don’t have to be intentional to be penalised.

Koscienly wasn't penalised.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Great. Spurs win. Hope we beat the Petro money fakes as well soon. I know they are a good team but who wouldnt be with limitless cash to spend?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:06 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Heh, I know, right?! The man city player made a deliberate movement towards the ball, it hit him, therefore offside. I think. I don't know either.
Smacks of Ashley Barnes vs Watford a year or two ago which was ruled out, but now wouldn't be. Again, I think.

That’s the incident that comes to mind.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:07 pm

Darthlaw wrote:I still think they’ll win the PL and the FA cup, tiger.

They might well do,but surely Pep was brought in to win the CL,ironic they've gone out to a fellow English side for the 2nd season running.

For all their bragging they still have a long way to go to match Manure and Liverpool's CL records.

Even Chelsea and Arsenal have reached CL finals,in Chelsea's case winning the tournament,i love Pep's brand of football but questions have to be posed.

Their shambles of a defence has cost them against Monaco,Liverpool and now Tottenham,considering the expenditure on the squad,you could argue City are underachieving.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:08 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Koscienly wasn't penalised.

I know but every single poster on here thought it should have been disallowed for handball despite it being unintentional. Handball doesn’t have to be intentional to be penalised - we see that every week.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:08 pm

What is the rule on offsides when a player goes to tackle someone facing his own goal and the ball deflects off him unintentionally to his forward?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:10 pm

Rileybobs wrote:It wasn’t intentional when Koscienly scored with his arm against us. I think it’s pretty clear that handballs don’t have to be intentional to be penalised.

yeah but that was Arsenal, he could have picked the ball up off the floor, run around the pitch for 2 minutes and then slam dunked it into the top corner and it would have stood !

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:10 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:What is the rule on offsides when a player goes to tackle someone facing his own goal and the ball deflects off him unintentionally to his forward?

It becomes offside if a player in an offside position plays it.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:10 pm

tiger76 wrote:They might well do,but surely Pep was brought in to win the CL,ironic they've gone out to a fellow English side for the 2nd season running.

For all their bragging they still have a long way to go to match Manure and Liverpool's CL records.

Even Chelsea and Arsenal have reached CL finals,in Chelsea's case winning the tournament,i love Pep's brand of football but questions have to be posed.

Their shambles of a defence has cost them against Monaco,Liverpool and now Tottenham,considering the expenditure on the squad,you could argue City are underachieving.

Pep was already targeting some new fullbacks for over £50 million each.

He will just throw more money at some defenders and they really need to find another player like Fernandinho, because when he's not playing their defence is left exposed.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:11 pm

Same at Bayern for him, Tiger.

For the money spent, you’ve got to question whether Pep is just a flat track bully.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:11 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I know but every single poster on here thought it should have been disallowed for handball despite it being unintentional. Handball doesn’t have to be intentional to be penalised - we see that every week.

I know, but for this season at least, accidental handball isn't penalised which is why I'm struggling with the fact that you're struggling with Llorentes goal. That's why Koscielny's goal was allowed to stand (the biggest issue there him being offside, not the handball) Either way, Llorente didn't score with his hand, he scored with his hip, a perfectly legal part of the body with which to score.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:13 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Same at Bayern for him, Tiger.

For the money spent, you’ve got to question whether Pep is just a flat track bully.

Walker-Kompany-Laporte-Mendy is a seriously poor back four for a top side. It’s ok when you don’t need to do any defending but against top teams it’s very weak.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:15 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Pep was already targeting some new fullbacks for over £50 million each.

He will just throw more money at some defenders and they really need to find another player like Fernandinho, because when he's not playing their defence is left exposed.

I'm sure they will throw money at the problem,whether that will solve it remains to be seen,totally agree on Fernandinho,they desperately need a Kante type in the middle,who breaks up the opposition's play and keeps it simple.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:16 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:I know, but for this season at least, accidental handball isn't penalised which is why I'm struggling with the fact that you're struggling with Llorentes goal. That's why Koscielny's goal was allowed to stand (the biggest issue there him being offside, not the handball) Either way, Llorente didn't score with his hand, he scored with his hip, a perfectly legal part of the body with which to score.

Accidental handball is penalised this season. It’s been penalised for a long time. It was penalised by VAR in the recent World Cup - that’s why I’m struggling with it.

Do I think Llorente’s goal should have been disallowed? No. But I’d like to know why some accidental hand balls that result in goals are disallowed and others not. The pundits in the studio can’t agree on it either.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:17 pm

Claretincraven wrote:Does that mean our game against Man City stops on the Sunday?

Was just going to ask the same question

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:17 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:It becomes offside if a player in an offside position plays it.

Haha.

I mean is there anything in the rules about it being a deliberate pass?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:19 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Accidental handball is penalised this season. It’s been penalised for a long time. It was penalised by VAR in the recent World Cup - that’s why I’m struggling with it.

Do I think Llorente’s goal should have been disallowed? No. But I’d like to know why some accidental hand balls that result in goals are disallowed and others not. The pundits in the studio can’t agree on it either.

If accidental handball is penalised I wonder why Mike Dean didn't award a penalty for the Ben Mee incidents on Saturday?

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:19 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Haha.

I mean is there anything in the rules about it being a deliberate pass?

Just has to touch their player.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:21 pm

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:21 pm

And Danny Rose cant wait wait to quit the game. After that why would anyone want that part of their lives to end.

Also as regards the Spurs goal it is nigh on impossiblt to see if it hit his arm but i think it did. Not that it should matter. His arms were in his body which we are being told all players should do now to avoid being hit by the ball. Cant have it both ways. Plus he was pushed in the back which will have affected his body movement

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:22 pm

Darthlaw wrote:Same at Bayern for him, Tiger.

For the money spent, you’ve got to question whether Pep is just a flat track bully.

The question will be asked until Pep proves the doubters wrong,might explain why Messi didn't take the plunge when City came calling a few years ago.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:22 pm

Spijed wrote:If accidental handball is penalised I wonder why Mike Dean didn't award a penalty for the Ben Mee incidents on Saturday?

Because accidental handball isn’t always penalised.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:25 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Accidental handball is penalised this season. It’s been penalised for a long time. It was penalised by VAR in the recent World Cup - that’s why I’m struggling with it.

Do I think Llorente’s goal should have been disallowed? No. But I’d like to know why some accidental hand balls that result in goals are disallowed and others not. The pundits in the studio can’t agree on it either.

Accidental handball is only penalised when the officials think it's deliberate handball. Accidental handball is not an offense and so cannot be penalised.
Llorentes arm made no movement towards the ball, therefore if it did strike his arm it cannot be deliberate. If the ref thought it was deliberate, even if it wasn't, then it becomes deliberate. It's not an exact science. Next season it would probably be ruled out, next season Cardiff might have two penalties against us for handball, next season Koscielny's goal doesn't stand, (neither does his penalty for Ben Mee kicking him in the head but that's something different), but by every current version of the rules, as I understand them, in all of those instances the officials got the decision correct.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:27 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Another rule I don’t understand - silly me - but I thought that it wasn’t offside if it was a deflection that played the ball to the attacking player?

Glad Spurs won btw.

If Spurs go all the way (doubt it) we can lay claim to beating the CL winners,not a bad stat for little old Burnley.

Great for Tripps also,shows why he wanted a shot at the big time.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:28 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Accidental handball is only penalised when the officials think it's deliberate handball. Accidental handball is not an offense and so cannot be penalised.
Llorentes arm made no movement towards the ball, therefore if it did strike his arm it cannot be deliberate. If the ref thought it was deliberate, even if it wasn't, then it becomes deliberate. It's not an exact science. Next season it would probably be ruled out, next season Cardiff might have two penalties against us for handball, next season Koscielny's goal doesn't stand, (neither does his penalty for Ben Mee kicking him in the head but that's something different), but by every current version of the rules, as I understand them, in all of those instances the officials got the decision correct.

That’s not true. Handballs are penalised by arms being in an ‘un-natural’ position for example. You very, very rarely see a deliberate hand ball. Surely if you watch a lot of football you will see accidental hand balls penalised quite often?

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:30 pm

be interesting to hear what Pochetino thinks about VAR after tonight because he's been dead against it

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 pm

Rileybobs wrote:That’s not true. Handballs are penalised by arms being in an ‘un-natural’ position for example. You very, very rarely see a deliberate hand ball. Surely if you watch a lot of football you will see accidental hand balls penalised quite often?

Of course, and a handball on the half way line is different to handball in the penalty area. I don't know why, just like I don't know why jumping with a goalkeeper is different to jumping with a defender. It's not perfect, not at all, but an arm in an unnatural position, to a ref at least, means the player is trying to gain an advantage, therefore it becomes deliberate.

I don't know. I'm playing devils advocate I guess, (hopefully!) without being such a dick as Devils Advocate is.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 pm

tiger76 wrote:If Spurs go all the way (doubt it) we can lay claim to beating the CL winners,not a bad stat for little old Burnley.

Great for Tripps also,shows why he wanted a shot at the big time.

Tbf to Trippier he got torn to shreds by Sterling tonight.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:35 pm

Spijed wrote:Tbf to Trippier he got torn to shreds by Sterling tonight.

Not the first, won't be the last, and he's on the winning side so laughs last.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:35 pm

just looked at the aguerro offside again and the llorente handball,,,we have no need for refs and linesmen anymore computers can make all the decisions....

cant help feel that var will kill the game

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:36 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:Of course, and a handball on the half way line is different to handball in the penalty area. I don't know why, just like I don't know why jumping with a goalkeeper is different to jumping with a defender. It's not perfect, not at all, but an arm in an unnatural position, to a ref at least, means the player is trying to gain an advantage, therefore it becomes deliberate.

I don't know. I'm playing devils advocate I guess, (hopefully!) without being such a dick as Devils Advocate is.

I’m not even saying that it should be a handball - I’m questioning the inconsistent interpretation of the law. We saw a non-deliberate hand ball lead to a penalty awarded to France in the World Cup final following a VAR review. Surely with the technology the law should be applied consistently? I’m guessing next seasons changes to the law highlight that this is an issue and maybe the change will lead to the consistency.

duncandisorderly · Post by **duncandisorderly** » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:42 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I’m not even saying that it should be a handball - I’m questioning the inconsistent interpretation of the law. We saw a non-deliberate hand ball lead to a penalty awarded to France in the World Cup final following a VAR review. Surely with the technology the law should be applied consistently? I’m guessing next seasons changes to the law highlight that this is an issue and maybe the change will lead to the consistency.

Indeed. The penalty in the World Cup final was nonsense. Slow it down frame by frame and it looks deliberate as the ball rises as his arm descends. Play it in real time and the entire thing is perfectly natural. I think if you do the same thing with Ben Mee's handballs on saturday the same thing will happen, which is a nonsense. But VAR will eradicate these inconsistencies as it takes away the interpretation of the law from the referee and turns it into something black and white. It's not good, I don't think. But this is the future.