VAR

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DCWat
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Re: VAR

Post by DCWat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:01 pm

Spijed wrote:Another issue is that after a while every decision will go to var.

When was the last time an umpire gave a run out without referring it to a replay?
I can see that happening and that would definitely be a bad move. For VAR to really work, I think that all side and above angles need to be fully covered, just for offsides.

For the rest, it’s down to the laws being clear and aligned with the new technology. A ball simply striking an arm, for example, should no automatically be handball.

The one thing that I hope VAR does eliminate is the diving. If it achieves that, I’ll reluctantly accept some minor delays.

Vegas Claret
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Re: VAR

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:27 pm

Spijed wrote:So you are quite happy that immediate goal celebrations will be completely obsolete in a few seasons time?

There will be no longer any celebrations as a goal is scored, only muted applause a minute or so afterwards.
or you get to celebrate the goal twice, can look at it both ways

atlantalad
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Re: VAR

Post by atlantalad » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:44 am

VAR is a crap and non transparent process. In last nights game the ref gave a goal for the handball goal but was then "asked" by an anonymous officials to look at the pitch side monitor - that put questions in his mind and he finally judged the ball did not hit hand and into the goal. In the second occasion when city scored the same people monitoring VAR did not give the ref the option to review if there was an offside - the very same anonymous offficials themselves decided it was offside even though both the Lino and ref gave a goal.

Surely it should be down to the ref, not anonymous bods, to make a decision to review VAR if HE thought there was an offside/ handball/ foul on the build up to a goal.
Last edited by atlantalad on Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

dsr
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Re: VAR

Post by dsr » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:49 am

atlantalad wrote:VAR is a crap and non transparent process. In last nights game the ref gave a goal for the handball goal but was then "asked" by an anonymous officials to look at the pitch side monitor - that put questions in his mind and he finally judged the ball did not hit hand and into the goal. In the second occasion when city scored the same people monitoring VAR did not give the ref the option to review if there was an offside - the very same anonymous offficials themselves decided it was offside even though both the Lino and ref gave a goal.
They did give the ref chance to review it, but he chose to take their advice without checking it himself - which is reasonable, because he very rarely judges offside himself with or without VAR. He always takes the advice of another official.

Vegas Claret
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Re: VAR

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 am

atlantalad wrote:VAR is a crap and non transparent process. In last nights game the ref gave a goal for the handball goal but was then "asked" by an anonymous officials to look at the pitch side monitor - that put questions in his mind and he finally judged the ball did not hit hand and into the goal. In the second occasion when city scored the same people monitoring VAR did not give the ref the option to review if there was an offside - the very same anonymous offficials themselves decided it was offside even though both the Lino and ref gave a goal.

Surely it should be down to the ref, not anonymous bods, to make a decision to review VAR if HE thought there was an offside/ handball/ foul on the build up to a goal.

VAR only ask the ref to look if there is a "possible" decision to be made - the offside was clear as day that even I could see it the second it happened

atlantalad
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Re: VAR

Post by atlantalad » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 am

Thought the ball got played/deflected on by a spurs player on the build up to the offside goal.

dsr
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Re: VAR

Post by dsr » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:17 am

atlantalad wrote:Thought the ball got played/deflected on by a spurs player on the build up to the offside goal.
Played by a Spurs player but deflected by a City player. The offside was when the City player touched the ball.

arise_sir_charge
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Re: VAR

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:29 am

Vegas Claret wrote:VAR only ask the ref to look if there is a "possible" decision to be made - the offside was clear as day that even I could see it the second it happened
So you thought it was offside in real time?

You must be the only person that did. No spurs players appealed, none of the officials thought so, neither of the managers had any idea and the commentator and co commentator were as surprised as anybody.

I think VAR is crap. For me it spoiled one of the most dramatic games in recent times. A hat trick winner in injury time in a huge game ruled out on nothing more than a cm or two of offside which in truth was probably of no additional benefit to the player collecting the ball.

Also not sure that giving teams reviews like in cricket will work. In cricket a wicket isn’t as decisive as a goal is in football as there are 10 of them to play with. A poor decision in cricket can affect a result but a single goal in football can decide the result.

As said above, it won’t be long before everything is being checked like in cricket.

Down_Rover
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Re: VAR

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 am

It won’t last long

My guess is that the top 6 will be the losers here as we move to a level playing field in terms of controversial decisions

The big 6 will use their muscle with the media who have the financial clout to have it abolished

KippaxFifaHD
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Re: VAR

Post by KippaxFifaHD » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:41 am

Personally I don't get all the opposition for VAR, I'm all for it.

With offside it's hardly 'debateable' if someone's offside or not, as someone suggested earlier; you're either on or you're off. The 'body's gap' rule just confuses it even more.

People are missing the point talking about the time being taken to make decisions, and honestly I couldn't care less whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 minutes for a decision to be made, because at the end of the day it takes away all the controversy with people moaning about an offside goal.

It's all about getting the right decision, and if that's what happens in the end then I'm all for it.

The real problem is deciding what a natural position is for handballs, because I can tell you now, the amount of penalties being given harshly for this is unbeleivable, eg. Marquinhos 'handball' against United that sent them out

arise_sir_charge
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Re: VAR

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:37 pm

KippaxFifaHD wrote: People are missing the point talking about the time being taken to make decisions, and honestly I couldn't care less whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 minutes for a decision to be made, because at the end of the day it takes away all the controversy with people moaning about an offside goal.

It's all about getting the right decision, and if that's what happens in the end then I'm all for it.

The real problem is deciding what a natural position is for handballs, because I can tell you now, the amount of penalties being given harshly for this is unbeleivable, eg. Marquinhos 'handball' against United that sent them out
If it’s all about getting the right decision why bother with on field refs and liners?

Also why not check every decision, throw ins, corners etc etc etc.

I main about bad reffing but I’d much prefer we just let them get in with it.

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Re: VAR

Post by dougcollins » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:42 pm

As I've said before, people are deluded if they think VAR will level the field with the top 6.
Every fall with contact will result in a pen. For certain teams.

Vegas Claret
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Re: VAR

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:45 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:So you thought it was offside in real time?

You must be the only person that did. No spurs players appealed, none of the officials thought so, neither of the managers had any idea and the commentator and co commentator were as surprised as anybody.

I think VAR is crap. For me it spoiled one of the most dramatic games in recent times. A hat trick winner in injury time in a huge game ruled out on nothing more than a cm or two of offside which in truth was probably of no additional benefit to the player collecting the ball.

Also not sure that giving teams reviews like in cricket will work. In cricket a wicket isn’t as decisive as a goal is in football as there are 10 of them to play with. A poor decision in cricket can affect a result but a single goal in football can decide the result.

As said above, it won’t be long before everything is being checked like in cricket.
The deflection off Bernado Silva was very clear so I thought it could be offside yes. Winning goal wasn't a goal though because he was in fat offside. It's a difficult one I totally agree but it's here to stay by the looks of it. I'm expecting it to be pretty horrendous whilst the refs get to grips with it but once they do hopefully it will be a major benefit - just imagine getting relegated because the linesman missed an offside, far too much at stake now for that to happen

Spijed
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Re: VAR

Post by Spijed » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:52 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:The deflection off Bernado Silva was very clear so I thought it could be offside yes. Winning goal wasn't a goal though because he was in fat offside. It's a difficult one I totally agree but it's here to stay by the looks of it. I'm expecting it to be pretty horrendous whilst the refs get to grips with it but once they do hopefully it will be a major benefit - just imagine getting relegated because the linesman missed an offside, far too much at stake now for that to happen
How can a referee ever get to grips with it when many decisions are purely down to their opinion, such as deliberate handball or not?

The only way to completely speed things up is to remove all grey areas within the rules. For example, if it hits a players hand in the box its a penalty, even if it's blasted at a defender. That's the only way you will get it to work, likewise offside. If any player is in an offside position, regardless of whether they are interfering or not will have to be classed as offside.

The same with any fouls. The slightest touch will have to be penalised otherwise what is deemed as a foul?

Vegas Claret
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Re: VAR

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:03 pm

Spijed wrote:How can a referee ever get to grips with it when many decisions are purely down to their opinion, such as deliberate handball or not?

The only way to completely speed things up is to remove all grey areas within the rules. For example, if it hits a players hand in the box its a penalty, even if it's blasted at a defender. That's the only way you will get it to work, likewise offside. If any player is in an offside position, regardless of whether they are interfering or not will have to be classed as offside.

The same with any fouls. The slightest touch will have to be penalised otherwise what is deemed as a foul?
I should have used the word authorities because of the points you raise, I'm forever hopeful people on here have the ability to read between the lines but it appears not. I'm all for VAR but I know it's going to be a cluster for a good while ! I think it's essential the focus is put on the "obvious mistake"

arise_sir_charge
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Re: VAR

Post by arise_sir_charge » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:53 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:I should have used the word authorities because of the points you raise, I'm forever hopeful people on here have the ability to read between the lines but it appears not. I'm all for VAR but I know it's going to be a cluster for a good while ! I think it's essential the focus is put on the "obvious mistake"
So do you think that the Aguero offside is an obvious mistake? I’d argue it isn’t bearing in mind nobody in the ground knew.

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Re: VAR

Post by NRC » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:12 pm

How do those favoring a quota system reconcile that with the fact that the quote in all probability would still have been used at the end of the game, with the same outcome? Unless you’re suggesting managers would arbitrarily exhaust their allocation?

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Re: VAR

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:21 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:So do you think that the Aguero offside is an obvious mistake? I’d argue it isn’t bearing in mind nobody in the ground knew.
100%. It's a clear offside, it was missed by the officials so by definition is an obvious mistake

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