BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

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Imploding Turtle
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BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Heads up. This is on in about 10 minutes and should be watched by anyone who has an interest in the future of humanity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00049b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Edit: Now watch The Age of Stupid on BBC Four. It's very good.
Last edited by Imploding Turtle on Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by tiger76 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:05 pm

Timely given the recent protests,i'll watch it on catch-up over the weekend,i'm still undecided how much is man made and how much is nature taking it's course,but i'm prepared to be convinced.

Plastic in the oceans is clearly a human cause,but greenhouse gasses etc is less clear cut.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:13 pm

tiger76 wrote:Timely given the recent protests,i'll watch it on catch-up over the weekend,i'm still undecided how much is man made and how much is nature taking it's course,but i'm prepared to be convinced.

Plastic in the oceans is clearly a human cause,but greenhouse gasses etc is less clear cut.

All of it is our fault. There's no other known mechanism that explains the rapid change in temperature of the last 100 years than the carbon we're pumping into the atmosphere.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by ClaretAndJew » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 pm

It's actually all your fault IT
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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Damo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:25 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Heads up. This is on in about 10 minutes and should be watched by anyone who has an interest in the future of humanity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00049b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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~Sent from my iPhone whilest glued to Jeremy Corbyns shed~

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:51 pm

I do my bit with recycling etc.

But while countries like China and the USA pump all that shite out then Britain is small fry and peeing in the wind.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by tiger76 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:54 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I do my bit with recycling etc.

But while countries like China and the USA pump all that shite out then Britain is small fry and peeing in the wind.
USA isn't going to change while a climate change denier is in the White House.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by theroyaldyche » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:55 pm

How long have we got left

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Bosscat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:How long have we got left
It finishes at 10pm if that helps
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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by tim_noone » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:58 pm

Bosscat wrote:It finishes at 10pm if that helps
:lol:
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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:04 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I do my bit with recycling etc.

But while countries like China and the USA pump all that shite out then Britain is small fry and peeing in the wind.
Agree, it's the policies in the large countries that will make the most difference. Of course, they will probably not be inclined to do anything if they see that others aren't also doing their share.

Interesting point, USA didn't sign Kyoto treaty, but achieved the Kyoto Protocols carbon reduction targets by substituting natural gas for coal and other more carbon intenses forms of energy.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:07 pm

tiger76 wrote:USA isn't going to change while a climate change denier is in the White House.
Not strictly true, tiger. A significant number of the states are very active in seeking to cut their ghg emissions. California, which would rank high on the list of large countries, as an independent entity, is doing a lot.

Agree, DT is not a great supporter of these things.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:08 pm

Yeah, the UK is small-fry in the causes of climate change. Remind me, where did the industrial revolution start? :roll:

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:12 pm

Ironbridge

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by randomclaret2 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:16 pm

Sitting on a computer 24/7 , that has been transported half way across the world in a gigantic ship, having been made in enormous factories employing thousands of poorly paid peasants working 60 hours a week , whilst pontificating about global warming, seems a tad hypocrital to me.
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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by fanzone » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:37 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Ironbridge
Took the now wife to a little Italian restaurant in Ironbridge over 11 years ago on valentine's night. Asked her dad to book us a hotel room to which he duely obliged and booked two single beds. :shock:

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Vino blanco » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:17 pm

Sorry turtle, I haven't got any interest in the future of humanity, so I didn't watch it. I went to a Barr report day party instead: we had a great time.
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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by dsr » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:25 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:All of it is our fault. There's no other known mechanism that explains the rapid change in temperature of the last 100 years than the carbon we're pumping into the atmosphere.
There are unknown mechanisms that can do it, however. Temperatures changed like this (downwards, not upwards) about 5,000 years ago - that's why the people of Orkney left the area, they believe - because it was no longer warm enough to grow grain on the northern Scottish isles.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:33 pm

dsr wrote:There are unknown mechanisms that can do it, however. Temperatures changed like this (downwards, not upwards) about 5,000 years ago - that's why the people of Orkney left the area, they believe - because it was no longer warm enough to grow grain on the northern Scottish isles.
You're really not understanding this whole "global" thing, are you?

And so what if there are unknown mechanisms that can cause it. We already have the actual cause. We've identified it, it's been proven. If it was a unknown mechanism causing the warming then it should be pretty easy to disprove the mechanisms we do know about. And we have disproven them, except one.

If you think we shouldn't do anything about climate change because 5,000 years ago Orkney was cold then not only are you an idiot, but you're very selectively choosing to believe scientific findings and methodology. I mean, why do you believe the science that says Orkney was too cold 5,000 years ago, but not the science that shows that the world is warming now and that we're the cause?

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by dsr » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You're really not understanding this whole "global" thing, are you?

And so what if there are unknown mechanisms that can cause it. We already have the actual cause. We've identified it, it's been proven. If it was a unknown mechanism causing the warming then it should be pretty easy to disprove the mechanisms we do know about. And we have disproven them, except one.

If you think we shouldn't do anything about climate change because 5,000 years ago Orkney was cold then not only are you an idiot, but you're very selectively choosing to believe scientific findings and methodology. I mean, why do you believe the science that says Orkney was too cold 5,000 years ago, but not the science that shows that the world is warming now and that we're the cause?
Why do I believe that Orkney was warm enough to grow grain 5,000 years ago? Because archaeologists have found the remains of the grain. Even after the cooling period, it was still warmer than it is now.

And if you think that what I posted says that Orkney was cold 5,000 years ago, then you either haven't read my post or you haven't understood it, or you don't know much about Orkney or you don't know much about how grain grows. Let me educate you. If it is too cold, grain won't grow. 5,000 years ago, it was warm enough to grow grain in Orkney; then it wasn't. Now, it's too cold to grow grain in Orkney. So it used to be warm enough to grow grain and now it's not; that means it is colder now than it was then.

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:57 pm

dsr wrote:Why do I believe that Orkney was warm enough to grow grain 5,000 years ago? Because archaeologists have found the remains of the grain. Even after the cooling period, it was still warmer than it is now.

And if you think that what I posted says that Orkney was cold 5,000 years ago, then you either haven't read my post or you haven't understood it, or you don't know much about Orkney or you don't know much about how grain grows. Let me educate you. If it is too cold, grain won't grow. 5,000 years ago, it was warm enough to grow grain in Orkney; then it wasn't. Now, it's too cold to grow grain in Orkney. So it used to be warm enough to grow grain and now it's not; that means it is colder now than it was then.
Well done. You caught me out. I had a lapse of concentration when replying to a climate change denier.
That doesn't change the fact that you are cherry-picking the science you choose to trust.


It's perfectly reasonable to conclude that grain being found somewhere from 5,000 years ago implies that it was grown there, yet for some reason when scientists test the air from 5,000 years ago found in ice core samples you are full of questions and doubt. Why the dissonance?

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:00 am

dsr wrote:. Let me educate you. If it is too cold, grain won't grow. 5,000 years ago, it was warm enough to grow grain in Orkney; then it wasn't. Now, it's too cold to grow grain in Orkney. So it used to be warm enough to grow grain and now it's not; that means it is colder now than it was then.
Who here do i inform that their grain cannot be grown on Orkney?

https://www.orkney.com/news/beremeal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Spiral » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:58 am

randomclaret2 wrote:Sitting on a computer 24/7 , that has been transported half way across the world in a gigantic ship, having been made in enormous factories employing thousands of poorly paid peasants working 60 hours a week , whilst pontificating about global warming, seems a tad hypocrital to me.
There's actually a tremendous amount that could be done to help, but the things with the biggest impact are big-picture ideas which if carried out on a big enough scale won't require everyone to live like a hermit or abandon modern living standards to any noticeable degree. Thankfully, a lot of the solutions are technologically and economically feasible. Sadly, politics is holding it all back. The Sir David Attenborough documentary on BBC One earlier tonight was great. I'd recommend it on iplayer if you didn't see it earlier.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by bfcjg » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 am

Human beings breath in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide which is a greenhouse gas.Why then aren't they committing mass suicide instead of slowing down cars which will increase pollutants ?

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Spiral » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:26 am

bfcjg wrote:Human beings breath in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide which is a greenhouse gas.Why then aren't they committing mass suicide instead of slowing down cars which will increase pollutants ?
Human respiration doesn't add to the amount of CO2 in the biosphere. The carbon you're breathing out now was originally (in the not too distant past) already in the atmosphere, absorbed and used by plants to grow, plants which were then eaten by you or the animals you eat, which then formed the basis of the cells in your body, and which was later breathed out by you as waste to be absorbed by plants again. It's a stable cycle. However, burning coal or oil or gas which was originally in the ground adds to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Doing that at a rate where life can't evolve at pace with the rate of change in the climate caused by the increase in greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere causes extreme weather, mass extinction, and ecological meltdown. Changing our fuel sources is a better solution than suicide.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Pstotto » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:32 am

The Age of Conceit.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Hipper » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:09 am

Spiral wrote:Sadly, politics is holding it all back.
That's to easy an excuse.

In 2000 we had the fuel protests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_prot ... ed_Kingdom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whilst the prime movers behind it were haulage firms it was strongly supported by the average motorist. In other words, they did not give a **** about the purpose of the fuel tax escalator, hence climate change, but about their own circumstances. Similar goings on recently in France (the 'gilet jeunes') confirm this attitude.

Any party, very recently anyway, who said they would increase the fuel tax, would lose votes.

Politics, ultimately, often does represent our wishes.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by JohnMcGreal » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:22 am

For those who haven't seen George Monbiot's bit on Frankie Boyle's NWO last week, it's worth a watch:

https://youtu.be/Ir-XjQhOyNQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by mdd2 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:09 am

tiger76 wrote:Timely given the recent protests,i'll watch it on catch-up over the weekend,i'm still undecided how much is man made and how much is nature taking it's course,but i'm prepared to be convinced.

Plastic in the oceans is clearly a human cause,but greenhouse gasses etc is less clear cut.
I am sorry but that the Earth is flat has to be less clear cut than why CO2 levels are rising and have been for so many many years.
The massive rise in population and the peoples demands for a better life experience-clean running water, warm homes/ air conditioned, individual means of transport (cars), change of clothes and bedding more than once per fortnight, household aids like vacuum cleaners, washing machines, dryers, dish washer, microwaves recently computers, mobiles, the net-all need energy and 99% of that has come out of the ground by burning fossil fuels that have been laid down over millions of years and captured CO2 which we have now been putting back into the atmosphere for over three centuries and the rapid rise since 1950 (and it is a MASSIVE rise) has come about by the effects of an ever improving standard of living in two of the world's largest populations namely India and China as well as our own increases in use of electricity.
If we do not sort it there will be a correction with population decline and the plants will again takeover and recapture the CO2 but at great cost to future generations if we do not sort it NOW.
And for those named Thomas it will be far too late waiting until it is 100% certain we are the cause of it all and have been since we started digging the stuff out of the ground and burning it.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is if we crack fusion as a means of generating electricity-if that happens the use of fossil fuels will plummet-but we need that technology sooner rather than later and not much signs of light at the end of this dark tunnel

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by wickdkewlclaret » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 am

Anyone who is unsure about Climate Change really needs to look at the scientific research.

A few years ago ignorance to this topic wasn’t a surprise, but to hear people still deliberating the facts is sad to hear.

Get yourselves educated, as part of the solution is for everyone to accept what dire situation we are in.

Plus you just sound like tit that doesn’t know what they are talking about.
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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by brexit » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:28 am

Water vapour is the biggest contribution to climate change not Carbon Dioxide
Too many interacting factors to consider.to identify a cause. It is a planetwide cyclic phenomenon.
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeolog ... auses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Spiral » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:32 pm

Hipper wrote:Politics, ultimately, often does represent our wishes.
Totally agree, which is why I said politics, not politicians. It starts with our own attitudes.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:40 pm

brexit wrote:Water vapour is the biggest contribution to climate change not Carbon Dioxide
Too many interacting factors to consider.to identify a cause. It is a planetwide cyclic phenomenon.
https://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeolog ... auses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can't believe this hasn't been explained to you before today, but here you go:

The amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is determined by how warm the atmosphere is.
The warmer the atmosphere, the more water vapour it can hold. When the atmosphere holds too much water vapour it condenses into water and that's what rain is.

We are putting more CO2 in the atmosphere. That means the atmosphere gets warmer.
Because the atmosphere gets warmer more water from oceans, seas and lakes evaporates.
Because the atmosphere gets warmer it can hold more of that evaporated water as water vapour.
Because the atmosphere holds more water vapour the atmosphere gets even warmer.

Yes, water vapour is a powerful warming gas. But more water vapour in our atmosphere is a consequence of more CO2 in our atmosphere.
This is called a "positive feedback".

Is there anything I've just said that you don't understand?
Too many interacting factors to consider.to identify a cause.
Bullshit.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Spiral » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:41 pm

You really do need to understand, brexit, the science is incontrovertible.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by mdd2 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I can't believe this hasn't been explained to you before today, but here you go:


Bullshit.
But that is methane not CO2. :lol: :lol: :lol: but it is another greenhouse gas and the melting of permafrost from warming is adding more methane into the atmosphere.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Dyched » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:46 pm

I liked the bloke going on and on and on and on but then rode about for a bit on a Harley Davidson

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by bob-the-scutter » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:All of it is our fault. There's no other known mechanism that explains the rapid change in temperature of the last 100 years than the carbon we're pumping into the atmosphere.
I see. Your actually blaming the human race for the actions of those naughty volcanoes now are you?
:roll:

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by morpheus2 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:26 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:Ironbridge

Don't tar a whole nation of people with the small minority from Ironbridge.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Hipper » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:44 pm

Did anybody actually watch this? I looked at it today and was disappointed.

The idea (of looking from the future as to why we who could have done something, did little or nothing) sounded good and it started off almost OK - I thought the big bang to now idea was not well done. The family looking at the shrunken glacier was good, as was later when we saw that this family were making some effort to do something. There were other good things too but unfortunately the programme got bogged down with a cartoon like delivery of making some points which, whilst true (Shell's mess in Nigeria; the Iraq war and oil etc.) seemed to me like side issues, connected but not important enough in achieving the programmes objective, which I assume was to persuade is to do something now. Then at the end, the summary that included one of the reasons for us mostly ignoring the issue was perhaps our mass suicide.

I would have preferred more of the facts, such as the melting glaciers example and that families efforts. In addition I would have liked a much deeper investigation into why, when presented with all these facts we chose, in the film, or are choosing now, to ignore all these dire warnings.

I'm not sure that anyone watching the 90 minute long programme, if they got to the end, would be inspired to actually do something.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/m ... pid-review" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by brexit » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I can't believe this hasn't been explained to you before today, but here you go:

The amount of water vapour in the atmosphere is determined by how warm the atmosphere is.
The warmer the atmosphere, the more water vapour it can hold. When the atmosphere holds too much water vapour it condenses into water and that's what rain is.

We are putting more CO2 in the atmosphere. That means the atmosphere gets warmer.
Because the atmosphere gets warmer more water from oceans, seas and lakes evaporates.
Because the atmosphere gets warmer it can hold more of that evaporated water as water vapour.
Because the atmosphere holds more water vapour the atmosphere gets even warmer.

Yes, water vapour is a powerful warming gas. But more water vapour in our atmosphere is a consequence of more CO2 in our atmosphere.
This is called a "positive feedback".

Is there anything I've just said that you don't understand?



Bullshit.
So Water vapour (it's not a gas) is the biggest contributor incontinent.
Read the link there are other factors at play but again I forget you are the font of all wisdom on all things.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Bosscat » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:21 pm

brexit wrote:So Water vapour (it's not a gas) is the biggest contributor incontinent.
Read the link there are other factors at play but again I forget you are the font of all wisdom on all things.
Incontinence is a bit more than water vapour ;)

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Stayingup » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:28 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:All of it is our fault. There's no other known mechanism that explains the rapid change in temperature of the last 100 years than the carbon we're pumping into the atmosphere.
When I read the headline I thought it was s featire on you..

Anther nonesensical statement you cant back.up with facts I would say. Your very good at that.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Stayingup » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:36 pm

Bosscat wrote:Incontinence is a bit more than water vapour ;)
TIT has it but its his mouth.
This user liked this post: Bosscat

Imploding Turtle
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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:36 pm

brexit wrote:So Water vapour (it's not a gas) is the biggest contributor incontinent.
Read the link there are other factors at play but again I forget you are the font of all wisdom on all things.
I know more about this than you. That much is clear. Why are you sneering at me just because i know more than you and am trying to help you understand something?

Yes, water vapour is the biggest single contributor to warming of the greenhouse gases, but that doesn't make it the most important nor does it make it a bigger cause than carbon dioxide or methane. I've already explained why. If you don't believe me then ask the British Geological Survey.

The amount of water vapour in our atmosphere is regulated by the temperature of the atmosphere. So if we make the atmosphere warmer by pumping CO2 into it then that causes the atmosphere to hold more water vapour. This makes water vapour an amplifier of warming, not a cause of warming.

Do you understand? Or are you just going to act like a **** to someone who knows more than you and is trying to help you be better informed?

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Re: BBC One, 9pm: Climate Change - The Facts

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:39 pm

bob-the-scutter wrote:I see. Your actually blaming the human race for the actions of those naughty volcanoes now are you?
:roll:
Volcanoes are not causing the current warming.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:44 pm

You've got to be impressed at how much time Turtle spends researching things like US politics, EU/UK Politics, global warming, UK Law and all its intricacies, browsing extremist websites etc.

That's a lot of things to be doing, plus the normal time spent on social media arguing with people.

I think we should all applaud him for his efforts.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:57 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You've got to be impressed at how much time Turtle spends researching things like US politics, EU/UK Politics, global warming, UK Law and all its intricacies, browsing extremist websites etc.

That's a lot of things to be doing, plus the normal time spent on social media arguing with people.

I think we should all applaud him for his efforts.

Mocking people for their knowledge only makes you look like a moron.

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Hipper » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:58 pm

brexit wrote:So Water vapour (it's not a gas) ….
What is it then if not a gas?

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:02 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You've got to be impressed at how much time Turtle spends researching things like US politics, EU/UK Politics, global warming, UK Law and all its intricacies, browsing extremist websites etc.

That's a lot of things to be doing, plus the normal time spent on social media arguing with people.

I think we should all applaud him for his efforts.
Image

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Re: BBC Four, 10pm: The Age of Stupid

Post by Bosscat » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:19 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:You've got to be impressed at how much time Turtle spends researching things like US politics, EU/UK Politics, global warming, UK Law and all its intricacies, browsing extremist websites etc.

That's a lot of things to be doing, plus the normal time spent on social media arguing with people.

I think we should all applaud him for his efforts.
You could say he is a diamond
download (1).jpeg
download (1).jpeg (1.78 KiB) Viewed 2428 times
But then again perhaps its just hot air

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