Todays football

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boatshed bill
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Re: Todays football

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:57 pm

Yes, either Cardiff or Brighton are more ilkely to go down than we are, but isn't he bigger issue how we have dropped from 7th to 17th?

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Re: Todays football

Post by MT03ALG » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:34 pm

Brighton will be relegated

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:37 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Yes, either Cardiff or Brighton are more ilkely to go down than we are, but isn't he bigger issue how we have dropped from 7th to 17th?
Not for me. The table showed the other day that for 2019 we were the 5th best team.

The early half of this season we know what the problem was, so it's not like the drop from last season is unexplainable.
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Re: Todays football

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:47 pm

Everton ran just over 8km more than Man Utd today.

Good stuff :D

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Re: Todays football

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:47 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Yes, either Cardiff or Brighton are more ilkely to go down than we are, but isn't he bigger issue how we have dropped from 7th to 17th?
Nope, we will always be somewhere between there during our tenure in the PL, usually 10th or lower.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:48 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Not for me. The table showed the other day that for 2019 we were the 5th best team.

The early half of this season we know what the problem was, so it's not like the drop from last season is unexplainable.
only thing that matters to most is staying in the division for as long as possible, be interesting to see how we do next year without the Europa distraction

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Re: Todays football

Post by tiger76 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:57 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nope, we will always be somewhere between there during our tenure in the PL, usually 10th or lower.
Our natural position is mid-lower table PL team,if we have a stroke of luck,players in form and a fully fit squad,which for the first half of last season we did,then we can overachieve,equally if we have a run of injuries,out of form players,and the added distraction of Europe,which was the case at the start of this season,then we can easily find ourselves fighting relegation,true we finished 7th last season but that's likely to be the exception not the rule.
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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:01 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:only thing that matters to most is staying in the division for as long as possible, be interesting to see how we do next year without the Europa distraction
I think we'll do better. If you look at the 7th finish last season and mix that with when we went back to basics this season, we're a top 10 side.

SD did what so many fans wanted him to do and that was try different formations. He did that, but overall it didn't work. And we have done better since Heaton came back in and we have gone back to what we did last season.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Bosscat » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:01 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:only thing that matters to most is staying in the division for as long as possible, be interesting to see how we do next year without the Europa distraction
Agreed VC m8

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Re: Todays football

Post by AshevilleNCClaret » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:33 pm

Bosscat wrote:Agreed VC m8
I think europa was a distraction but tbh we were just bad for half the year..... not sure if we can put a single cause for it..
*losing Pope/starting hart
* inadequate summer signings....
* poor team play....

Looking forward to next year.....hopefully wont be jn a relegation scrum
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Re: Todays football

Post by Bosscat » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:37 pm

AshevilleNCClaret wrote:I think europa was a distraction but tbh we were just bad for half the year..... not sure if we can put a single cause for it..
*losing Pope/starting hart
* inadequate summer signings....
* poor team play....

Looking forward to next year.....hopefully wont be jn a relegation scrum
Definitely a season of two halves.

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Re: Todays football

Post by ElectroClaret » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:21 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Yes, either Cardiff or Brighton are more ilkely to go down than we are...
We aren't "likely" to go down at all.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Pstotto » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:35 pm

Richarlison's goal should have been disallowed for dangerous play. The defender can't make a challenge out of a very real fear of instant death, should that foot at head height connect.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:38 pm

Seems like everyone wanted Cardiff to lose today, yet mid week the majority wanted them to beat Brighton. Seems like odd logic.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Vino blanco » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:42 pm

I don't care who is relegated as long as it is not us, and hopefully we have a good recruitment drive in the summer to bring in some strength in midfield and more pace upfront. We'll be set fine for next season then under Sir Sean Dyche.
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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:46 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Seems like everyone wanted Cardiff to lose today, yet mid week the majority wanted them to beat Brighton. Seems like odd logic.
It may seem it, but it isn't.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:49 pm

FactualFrank wrote:It may seem it, but it isn't.
Well for the people who so desperately want Brighton to be relegated surely a Cardiff win today would have been the ideal result?

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:52 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Well for the people who so desperately want Brighton to be relegated surely a Cardiff win today would have been the ideal result?
Not sure pal. I've not seen anybody on here desperately wanting Brighton to be relegated. I've seen people prefer it over Cardiff, but no desperation.

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Re: Todays football

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:54 pm

The margins are very fine for clubs like us.

Even with our crap first half of the season, we’re only 10 points off 7th, which is considerably less than the gap between 7th and top six, and only a couple more than the gap between us and Cardiff, which a few posters on here have been getting their knickers in a twist about lately.

The point is it won’t take a massive improvement for us to be challenging for a top half place again. Equally, it doesn’t take a big drop off in form to get drawn in to another relegation scrap.
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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:58 pm

scouseclaret wrote:The margins are very fine for clubs like us.

Even with our crap first half of the season, we’re only 10 points off 7th, which is considerably less than the gap between 7th and top six, and only a couple more than the gap between us and Cardiff, which a few posters on here have been getting their knickers in a twist about lately.

The point is it won’t take a massive improvement for us to be challenging for a top half place again. Equally, it doesn’t take a big drop off in form to get drawn in to another relegation scrap.
You see, I think when you add (a) the Europa League, (b) the poor form with the likes of Joe Hart in goal - who I think was certainly a reason for our poor form.. and (c) the fact our form in 2019 is top 5-6 material, there really is no significant major decisions needed for next season.

It says to me, that we go back to how we've played since the Everton game and we'll be absolutely fine next season. Especially, if we bring in 1 or 2 new faces who can strengthen the first team.

It's not like we're absolutely bamboozled as to why we're at the bottom end of the table - we know why!

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:59 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Not sure pal. I've not seen anybody on here desperately wanting Brighton to be relegated. I've seen people prefer it over Cardiff, but no desperation.
Ok, so my point stands. If so many people would prefer Brighton to be relegated over Cardiff, as was evidenced on the match thread for the game last week, then why did everyone on this thread want Cardiff to lose?

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:04 am

Rileybobs wrote:Ok, so my point stands. If so many people would prefer Brighton to be relegated over Cardiff, as was evidenced on the match thread for the game last week, then why did everyone on this thread want Cardiff to lose?
I'm guessing it's because they didn't know that the Wolves game would be a draw. Not everybody can see into the future like some of our posters.

I'm still awaiting the winning lottery numbers by the way, but as yet they haven't been relayed to me.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:09 am

FactualFrank wrote:I'm guessing it's because they didn't know that the Wolves game would be a draw. Not everybody can see into the future like some of our posters.

I'm still awaiting the winning lottery numbers by the way, but as yet they haven't been relayed to me.
But a Cardiff win today would have taken them level with Brighton despite them picking up a point. The Wolves game could as easily have been a Brighton win as a defeat so your lottery analogy doesn’t work.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:11 am

Cardiff were never going to get anything against Liverpool, I'd be very surprised if they get more than two points now given their fixtures

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Re: Todays football

Post by dsr » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:28 am

boatshed bill wrote:Yes, either Cardiff or Brighton are more ilkely to go down than we are, but isn't he bigger issue how we have dropped from 7th to 17th?
I can see how you could argue that the bigger issue is how we dropped from 7th to 15th. But not 17th.

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:35 am

Rileybobs wrote:The Wolves game could as easily have been a Brighton win as a defeat
No it couldn't - the odds were heavily on a Wolves win.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:51 am

FactualFrank wrote:No it couldn't - the odds were heavily on a Wolves win.
I’m really not sure why you’re debating this with me. If Cardiff had won today they would have been level on points with Brighton, in better form and with winnable games in the bank. So why did everyone want Cardiff to lose when the general mood was for Brighton to be relegated?

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:04 am

Rileybobs wrote:I’m really not sure why you’re debating this with me. If Cardiff had won today they would have been level on points with Brighton, in better form and with winnable games in the bank. So why did everyone want Cardiff to lose when the general mood was for Brighton to be relegated?
Which are these winnable games in the bank? Don't answer this - I'm playing.

A lot of fans on here were going off confidence and odds - that no matter what - they wouldn't catch us. And so - they wanted Cardiff to win to suck Brighton into the bottom 3. With the confidence that we'd pick up enough points anyway, but even if we didn't - neither would catch us up.

It's all about mindset. Sure - go off mathematics all you like, but that it was never 100% about that anyway - as you should well know, if you're still with it.
Last edited by FactualFrank on Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:04 am

FactualFrank wrote:I think we'll do better. If you look at the 7th finish last season and mix that with when we went back to basics this season, we're a top 10 side.

SD did what so many fans wanted him to do and that was try different formations. He did that, but overall it didn't work. And we have done better since Heaton came back in and we have gone back to what we did last season.
I just wanted better football and since McNeil came in we've had that and results have followed

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Re: Todays football

Post by DustyBawls » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:08 am

FactualFrank wrote:Which are these winnable games in the bank? Don't answer this - I'm playing.

A lot of fans on here were going off confidence and odds - that no matter what - they wouldn't catch us. And so - they wanted Cardiff to win to suck Brighton into the bottom 3. With the confidence that we'd pick up enough points anyway, but even if we didn't - neither would catch us up.

It's all about mindset. Sure - go off mathematics all you like, but that it was never 100% about that anyway - as you should well know, if you're still with it.
He's basically not accepting what fans predicted would happen. He's not aware of implied odds.

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:09 am

Vegas Claret wrote:I just wanted better football and since McNeil came in we've had that and results have followed
I think so too. Had McNeil not come in, I think we'd be planning to bounce back up from the Championship with fans thankful that Leeds have gone up.
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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:12 am

FactualFrank wrote:Which are these winnable games in the bank? Don't answer this - I'm playing.

A lot of fans on here were going off confidence and odds - that no matter what - they wouldn't catch us. And so - they wanted Cardiff to win to suck Brighton into the bottom 3. With the confidence that we'd pick up enough points anyway, but even if we didn't - neither would catch us up.

It's all about mindset. Sure - go off mathematics all you like, but that it was never 100% about that anyway - as you should well know, if you're still with it.
Cardiff have Fulham and Crystal Palace which are both winnable games. And their toughest game is against Man Utd who aren’t exactly infallible.

So I don’t understand what has happened from last weekend to this to make people want to start backing Brighton above Cardiff. Surely it wasn’t Brighton picking up a single point in a perfectly winnable game.

Personally, I think that people wanted Brighton to go down (who could blame them) and then got a squeaky bum as soon as Cardiff closed the gap.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:14 am

DustyBawls wrote:He's basically not accepting what fans predicted would happen. He's not aware of implied odds.
I’m sorry, I’m not accepting what fans predicted? I’m simply asking why posters are now wanting Cardiff to lose when they wanted to see Brighton relegated a week ago. Very little has changed.

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Re: Todays football

Post by FactualFrank » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:16 am

Rileybobs wrote:Cardiff have Fulham and Crystal Palace which are both winnable games.
I disagree. I think these are 2 almost definite losses. No chance of being winnable games.

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Re: Todays football

Post by dsr » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:18 am

Rileybobs wrote:I’m sorry, I’m not accepting what fans predicted? I’m simply asking why posters are now wanting Cardiff to lose when they wanted to see Brighton relegated a week ago. Very little has changed.
Because the people who wanted Cardiff to beat Brighton, had confidence that they would lose to Liverpool and therefore beating Brighton wouldn't mean Burnley would go down. So they always wanted Cardiff to beat Brighton but lose to Liverpool. So nothing has changed.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:21 am

FactualFrank wrote:I disagree. I think these are 2 almost definite losses. No chance of being winnable games.
Well, as you brought up the bookies, they don’t think they’re definite losses. Not much difference between a Fulham and Cardiff win. Not sure how you can say they’re not winnable games though, both against teams with nothing to play for. For what it’s worth I think they’ll pick up a point or maybe 3 at the most out of those games.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:24 am

Palace were superb at Arsenal today and on the whole their away form is very very good. I genuinely only see a max of 2 points more for Cardiff
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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:25 am

dsr wrote:Because the people who wanted Cardiff to beat Brighton, had confidence that they would lose to Liverpool and therefore beating Brighton wouldn't mean Burnley would go down. So they always wanted Cardiff to beat Brighton but lose to Liverpool. So nothing has changed.
Those people wanted Cardiff to win because they thought that Burnley were safe (we are) and Brighton are a slightly less likeable club. I get that. But by that logic you would want Cardiff to win today to put the less likeable Brighton in deeper trouble.

Otherwise you would have wanted Cardiff to lose against Brighton and we’d be mathematically safe this evening surely?

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Re: Todays football

Post by DustyBawls » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:36 am

Rileybobs wrote:Very little has changed.
You might want to look again.

You won't be getting more replies because you're on everybody's shitlist.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:38 am

DustyBawls wrote:You might want to look again.

You won't be getting more replies because you're on everybody's shitlist.
Brighton have picked up one point. That’s all that has changed unless you want to enlighten me?

And what’s a shitlist, and how do you know I’m on everybody’s?

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Re: Todays football

Post by exilecanada » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:12 am

Let’s go back one week from today (currently Sunday evening in my time zone). If Brighton had won against Cardiff, we would be mathematically safe. Cardiff won vs Brighton therefore bringing us back into the mix, particularly considering our final 4 fixtures.


I don’t care which one of Cardiff or Brighton go down, as long as it’s not us. Personally I’d prefer Cardiff to say up.

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Re: Todays football

Post by TheFamilyCat » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:07 am

Rileybobs wrote:Ok, so my point stands. If so many people would prefer Brighton to be relegated over Cardiff, as was evidenced on the match thread for the game last week, then why did everyone on this thread want Cardiff to lose?
I think everyone, first and foremost wants us to be mathematically safe. Which required Cardiff to lose to help that to happen.

Whoever goes down between Cardiff or Brighton is a secondary consideration.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Top Claret » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:28 am

Can't see Cardiff getting another point. They will get beat by an inform Fulham, then home to Palace who will relegate them.
Then United will thrash them. Soul star will play the kids

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Re: Todays football

Post by Steve1956 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:Seems like everyone wanted Cardiff to lose today, yet mid week the majority wanted them to beat Brighton. Seems like odd logic.
No I wanted Cardiff to win this like I wanted then to beat Brighton...I hate Brighton their fans and their plastic ground and the arrogance of everyone involved with that shite club.

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Re: Todays football

Post by willsclarets » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:24 am

I honestly couldn't give a hoot who goes down as long as we're above that relegation line after 38 games. The mass generalisation of clubs is hilarious - how a whole club and it's fans be arrogant, horrible, plastic etc is beyond me. I suspect it's more to do with the Bong incident than anything else, specific instances of perceived wrong doing by another club, manager or it's players tends to get the club itself a bad name with fans for years after.

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Re: Todays football

Post by NL Claret » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:53 am

Finishing 7th has done strange things to the expectation levels of some UTC posters. There are fine margins don't forget.

Apparently signing Joe Hart was the problem then again the form of some of the players shouldn't be overlooked.

Lowton, yellow card waiting to happen and crossing ability had gone.
Taylor, looked a championship player at best.
Mee, had fallen out with Tarky according to some UTC posters and was off form.
Tarky, see Mee plus according to UTC posters his new motor was an issue.
JBG, suffering from the World Cup.
Cork, has been found out due to having no pace.

You could add a European campaign which affected pre-season but then again let's just put it at Joe Hart's door.

Every season we have a bottom 3 - 4 budget so staying up is a decent achievement.

Anyway, back to today's football....................
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Re: Todays football

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:12 am

NL Claret wrote:Finishing 7th has done strange things to the expectation levels of some UTC posters. There are fine margins don't forget.

Apparently signing Joe Hart was the problem then again the form of some of the players shouldn't be overlooked.

Lowton, yellow card waiting to happen and crossing ability had gone.
Taylor, looked a championship player at best.
Mee, had fallen out with Tarky according to some UTC posters and was off form.
Tarky, see Mee plus according to UTC posters his new motor was an issue.
JBG, suffering from the World Cup.
Cork, has been found out due to having no pace.

You could add a European campaign which affected pre-season but then again let's just put it at Joe Hart's door.

Every season we have a bottom 3 - 4 budget so staying up is a decent achievement.

Anyway, back to today's football....................
You completely forgot to mention that Dyche had absolutely, definitely lost the dressing room according to the idiots on here that claim to be in the know or can read body language :roll:

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Re: Todays football

Post by bfcjg » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:15 am

Pope's injury really rocked the club. He was massive for us last season and such a loss will always unsettle a tight unit.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Tall Paul » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:25 am

I wanted Cardiff to win yesterday.

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Re: Todays football

Post by Lord Beamish » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:39 am

Tall Paul wrote:I wanted Cardiff to win yesterday.
So did I. If only to get all the closet Reds on here all hot and bothered.

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