Gavin Williamson

[hampsteadclaret]

Sacked..
Yes he did the leak ( I think)..
Good I cannot stand the oleaginous tw@t

- never to be trusted... what a surprise.

[Lancasterclaret]

May sacking a massive Brexiteer will go down well I reckon (not)

[Bordeauxclaret]

He’ll be off to prison if guilty won’t he?

[hampsteadclaret]

No idea about that.

He should resign his seat though.

Please disappear Gav..

[Vino blanco]

He could be the next PM then, once May goes in the near future .

[RMutt]

I’m surprised Rowls hasn’t broken this one. He likes to keep us informed.

[Lancasterclaret]

He doesn't do reporting of any negative aspects of Conservatives or Brexit.

[hampsteadclaret]

BBC saying that Williamson and his team were suspected of the leak and were questioned about this.

They categorically denied it more than once to those trying to source the leak.

Looks like he was lying.

This is a bloke who since TM stuck him in the Cabinet, has been lining himself up / positioning himself as a future Prime Minister.

- well he did fit part of the job description ( clean cut, sharp-suited duplicitous lying b@st@rd).

That’s pretty much made my night.

[Imploding Turtle]

It's right that he be sacked for leaking, but it's also right that he leaked what he did. (Assuming he leaked, of course)

[hampsteadclaret]

Why is it right that he leaked what he did ?
Convince me.

[Imploding Turtle]

Why is it right that he leaked what he did ?
Convince me.

Because companies owned by foreign hostile governments with as obvious a history of privacy invasion as China shouldn't be anywhere near the telecoms infrastructure of this country.

[Billy Balfour]

If you or I were suspected of breaching the OSA, on this scale, we'd currently be inside a police station facing a criminal investigation. Apparently, normal rules/law doesn't apply to some people.

[Lancasterclaret]

Getting a bit technical to be sure that is what they are capable of doing, but effectively what this also shows is that our place on the world stage is completely dependent on us being able to juggle the needs of the economic superpowers (US, EU, China)

Not a good place to be in, and I do understand the worry about Chinese firms getting involved (or any foriegn firms from a country with a massive history of privacy invasion)

[hampsteadclaret]

Well that may be your opinion and it is in fact mine.

However ( and I am way less a political sage than many on here) but surely ‘cabinet responsibility’ is at the heart of this issue... the body/ group he was on ( national security council ?) is top secret is it not, and he has signed the Official Secrets Act..?

Surely he should have resigned his Cabinet position, and then spoken out in terms of how he felt.

He is still denying any guilt.
Penny Mourdant gets to move into his swish office.

[Lancasterclaret]

If you or I were suspected of breaching the OSA, on this scale, we'd currently be inside a police station facing a criminal investigation. Apparently, normal rules/law doesn't apply to some people.

Vince Cable has called for charges to be bought. Seems to be the way to go to be fair.

[Burnley Ace]

Is there conclusive or compelling evidence? The letter seems to imply he hasn’t cooperated in an appropriate manner.

[Billy Balfour]

UK is now being seen as 'leaky' at the highest levels of govt and this isn't a good place to be when it comes to countries sharing their intelligence with us. Anyone saying he did the 'right thing' needs to think on.

[summitclaret]

Because companies owned by foreign hostile governments with as obvious a history of privacy invasion as China shouldn't be anywhere near the telecoms infrastructure of this country.

Can't believe it but I agree with IT

[thatdberight]

Because companies owned by foreign hostile governments with as obvious a history of privacy invasion as China shouldn't be anywhere near the telecoms infrastructure of this country.

You'll get in trouble leaking what you know from the NSC meeting. I mean, I'm assuming you know what you're talking about and that's based on detailed knowledge.

[Imploding Turtle]

You'll get in trouble leaking what you know from the NSC meeting. I mean, I'm assuming you know what you're talking about and that's based on detailed knowledge.

I understand that he'll get in trouble, and I assume so did he. He should get into trouble for it because generally speaking people shouldn't leak. However sometimes leaks are in the public interest, and so far this seems to me to be a prime example.

[Imploding Turtle]

UK is now being seen as 'leaky' at the highest levels of govt and this isn't a good place to be when it comes to countries sharing their intelligence with us. Anyone saying he did the 'right thing' needs to think on.

How likely do you think they would have been to share that same intelligence when our communications infrastructure is compromised by the Chinese tech firm they warned us not to use?

[Billy Balfour]

How likely do you think they would have been to share that same intelligence when our communications infrastructure is compromised by the Chinese tech firm they warned us not to use?

Eh? First of all what you have posted has nothing to do with what I said about the UK now being seen as leaky. Secondly, do you really think that top level unencrypted security info is being shared over the current G4 network? Well it most certainly isn't and it wouldn't be shared over G5 either.

[thatdberight]

How likely do you think they would have been to share that same intelligence when our communications infrastructure is compromised by the Chinese tech firm they warned us not to use?

Which countries do you trust to have that relationship with?

[hampsteadclaret]

Williamson has tweeted something in the last five minutes

- in the tweet he has denied being guilty of anything..

May has referred to ‘compelling evidence’... was he being completely co-operative?

A bit confusing at this point.

( - when he was Chief Whip, he kept a tarantula on his desk..mmm?)

[Imploding Turtle]

Eh? First of all what you have posted has nothing to do with what I said about the UK now being seen as leaky. Secondly, do you really think that top level unencrypted security info is being shared over the current G4 network? Well it most certainly isn't and it wouldn't be shared over G5 either.

Funny you should say that since this government wants to ban encryption. But yes, i do think our government is incompetent enough to share either unencrypted or weakly encrypted security info over public networks. But even if they aren't it's still really stupid to allow a company whose owners have an interest in crashing our trains to build and lay the rails they run on just because you think the inspection process is robust enough.

[Billy Balfour]

We should get Redefusion to build it.

[Cirrus_Minor]

Amazing, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the disclosure, that a defence Secretary should be sacked on the basis of national security.

The man is pleading innocence, he would be well advised to back away quietly and keep his gob shut since this is a criminal offence. I hope therefore that he keeps complaining and he gets sweaty collar felt.

[dsr]

Amazing, regardless of the rights and wrongs of the disclosure, that a defence Secretary should be sacked on the basis of national security.

The man is pleading innocence, he would be well advised to back away quietly and keep his gob shut since this is a criminal offence. I hope therefore that he keeps complaining and he gets sweaty collar felt.

There speaks a person who trusts Theresa May absolutely?

[mdd2]

Not up to speed with this but he may have breached the OSA because he was against letting the Chinese in on 5G due to its implications for National Security.
Not sure where breaking the OSA sits with concerns that we are making decisions that may endanger our security.

[AlargeClaret]

If guilty, he deserves ( bearing in mind his position) jail time and a bloody good thrashing to boot . He was obviously under suspicion from the off with his previous public ranting over the possible Chinese deal . I guess he’l keep on denying it and hope there won’t be enough evidence to prosecute . If entirely innocent I hope he gets a huge payout, otherwise unleash the hounds .

As an aside I wonder if Huawei do mini phones to stick up your arse? ... Gav might be a bit more on message if they do

[dsr]

Not up to speed with this but he may have breached the OSA because he was against letting the Chinese in on 5G due to its implications for National Security.
Not sure where breaking the OSA sits with concerns that we are making decisions that may endanger our security.

Apparently the discussions were at the National Security Council, not the Cabinet, and NSC discussions are subject to the Official Secrets Act.

[South West Claret.]

Is anyone keeping a record of how many Tory ministers have been given the gooner by the May time waster since she has been prime minister?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Since 2016 there have been constant rumours about civil servants acting politically, undermining Brexiteers (in this case a born again one) and falling out with them. Boris and the foreign office mandarins being a good example.

Suggestions in tomorrow’s papers that the chief civil servant had a grudge against Williamson and went out to get him. Not hard to imagine in that situation Williamson would dig in and be uncooperative. He looks like that kind of chap.

I bet neither have covered themselves in glory, and I bet there is only suspicion and no proof.

But on the day of the local elections it plays to the same old narrative that Brexiteers are being shafted by the civil service, the so called independant experts who despise the Brexiteers for taking this stance. I suspect May thought it would make her look tough (why did it need to be in a rush tonight?) but I think it will make her look conniving, again.

[martin_p]

Since 2016 there have been constant rumours about civil servants acting politically, undermining Brexiteers (in this case a born again one) and falling out with them. Boris and the foreign office mandarins being a good example.

Suggestions in tomorrow’s papers that the chief civil servant had a grudge against Williamson and went out to get him. Not hard to imagine in that situation Williamson would dig in and be uncooperative. He looks like that kind of chap.

I bet neither have covered themselves in glory, and I bet there is only suspicion and no proof.

But on the day of the local elections it plays to the same old narrative that Brexiteers are being shafted by the civil service, the so called independant experts who despise the Brexiteers for taking this stance. I suspect May thought it would make her look tough (why did it need to be in a rush tonight?) but I think it will make her look conniving, again.

This sort of nonsense belongs with the faked moon landings and ‘false flag’ terrorist attacks.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Proper fantasist.

[IanMcL]

One can never tell what the Chinese put in anything!

[ClaretDiver]

not related to GW but I worked in IT back in the day in Australia when Huawei broke into the market with their routers and switching gear. Many of the mining firms would not buy the gear over fears that there were 'backdoors' to information.....

[Taffy on the wing]

Sacked..
Yes he did the leak ( I think)..
Good I cannot stand the oleaginous tw@t

- never to be trusted... what a surprise.

OLEAGINOUS...........What a word!

[SmudgetheClaret]

Or could it be it’s just more establishment propaganda to attack Huawei because they are seriously kicking apples arse on technology innovation and damn good mobile phones?

[box_of_frogs]

Apparently the discussions were at the National Security Council, not the Cabinet, and NSC discussions are subject to the Official Secrets Act.

I’ve not seen the paper that was leaked, but was it marked Secret or higher? If it was only marked official (which is usually not even put on the document) or official-sensitive then its barely worth a slap across the wrist. Of secret or above them it’ll be jail time.

[martin_p]

I’ve not seen the paper that was leaked, but was it marked Secret or higher? If it was only marked official (which is usually not even put on the document) or official-sensitive then its barely worth a slap across the wrist. Of secret or above them it’ll be jail time.

I doubt it was a paper as such, just a conversation, and therefore won’t have an official marking (although if the meeting was minuted then they will probably have a marking).

[Hipper]

Vince Cable has called for charges to be bought. Seems to be the way to go to be fair.

Interesting choice of words there!!!

[Cirrus_Minor]

There speaks a person who trusts Theresa May absolutely?

[Lancasterclaret]

Since 2016 there have been constant rumours about civil servants acting politically, undermining Brexiteers (in this case a born again one) and falling out with them. Boris and the foreign office mandarins being a good example.

Suggestions in tomorrow’s papers that the chief civil servant had a grudge against Williamson and went out to get him. Not hard to imagine in that situation Williamson would dig in and be uncooperative. He looks like that kind of chap.

I bet neither have covered themselves in glory, and I bet there is only suspicion and no proof.

But on the day of the local elections it plays to the same old narrative that Brexiteers are being shafted by the civil service, the so called independant experts who despise the Brexiteers for taking this stance. I suspect May thought it would make her look tough (why did it need to be in a rush tonight?) but I think it will make her look conniving, again.

Let me guess, the Sun, the Telegraph and the Express?

Didn't you post that you reckoned that Lidington or Rudd was the culprit? Who just happened to be the most remainer ministers in the cabinet?

You've no proof of anything (no shock there) but it 100% fits your view so it must be true.

[martin_p]

Let me guess, the Sun, the Telegraph and the Express?

Didn't you post that you reckoned that Lidington or Rudd was the culprit? Who just happened to be the most remainer ministers in the cabinet?

You've no proof of anything (no shock there) but it 100% fits your view so it must be true.

It's a common trait of 'populists' apparently.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... s-vaccines

[claretonthecoast1882]

Which countries do you trust to have that relationship with?

Venezuela will be high on his list

[Imploding Turtle]

Venezuela will be high on his list

Why?

[CrosspoolClarets]

Let me guess, the Sun, the Telegraph and the Express?

Didn't you post that you reckoned that Lidington or Rudd was the culprit? Who just happened to be the most remainer ministers in the cabinet?

You've no proof of anything (no shock there) but it 100% fits your view so it must be true.

Actually no, that wasn’t me, unless it was particularly late one night after a few bevvies. I wouldn’t dream of speculating who is responsible for a potential criminal offence. But sacking someone for allegedly not handing over their mobile phone and for having a conversation with a journalist that day strikes me as something that wouldn’t have been done to everyone in that situation - it smells like a witch hunt and a political “I’ll show the public I’m tough” thing on the day of elections.

Williamson after all is a Remainer though a Brexit convert, but he is a bit anti-establishment in his style which is why I suspect Sedwill went for him (a far more aggressive chap than Jeremy Haywood was in that job).

I must say, there is some naivity above on this thread from people who don’t believe civil servants show bias or narrow thinking. I’ve been dealing with many of them for 30 years, and I have seen this trait regularly. To show them where the real England is and to understand its people’s, you’d need to give many of them a roadmap.

[Lancasterclaret]

Actually no, that wasn’t me, unless it was particularly late one night after a few bevvies. I wouldn’t dream of speculating who is responsible for a potential criminal offence. But sacking someone for allegedly not handing over their mobile phone and for having a conversation with a journalist that day strikes me as something that wouldn’t have been done to everyone in that situation - it smells like a witch hunt and a political “I’ll show the public I’m tough” thing on the day of elections.

Williamson after all is a Remainer though a Brexit convert, but he is a bit anti-establishment in his style which is why I suspect Sedwill went for him (a far more aggressive chap than Jeremy Haywood was in that job).

I must say, there is some naivity above on this thread from people who don’t believe civil servants show bias or narrow thinking. I’ve been dealing with many of them for 30 years, and I have seen this trait regularly. To show them where the real England is and to understand its people’s, you’d need to give many of them a roadmap.

Its not just civil servants who need a road map to see what the real England is it?

[summitclaret]

Apparently whoever leaked it was a policy issue not state secret. The policy stinks.