The Death Penalty.

Bullabill · Post by **Bullabill** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:08 am

Jakubclaret » ..................

"He deserves to have his sexual organs surgically removed ........ "

Yeah, with a chainsaw.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:05 am

Dazzler wrote:Where is the evidence that it doesn''t?

Post 148 shows some.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:17 am

"That wouldn't happen I am normal. I'm not a lonely little fruit cake glued to a computer 24 / 7 picking strange little arguments."

Maybe not 24/7, boyo, but the rest of your statement is complete ********.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:55 am

Bullabill wrote:Jakubclaret » ..................

"He deserves to have his sexual organs surgically removed ........ "

Yeah, with a chainsaw.

I was thinking of a cleaner cut for illustration purposes only, to show other would be offenders.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:26 am

I have long been opposed to the death penalty and remain so, not out of any sympathy for the wrong doer and not from any liberal ideals. There actually is no evidence that it stops murder anyway because murders and horrific crimes happened when we still had it. The real fear is of being caught according to some sources. My opposition is simply that we do not have a perfect judicial system (to be fair no such thing exists anywhere in the world) and in the past we have hung totally innocent people. I don't know about anyone else but there cannot be anything worse in life than to be lead to the death chamber and killed by the state when you have done nothing wrong, it must be the most sickening thing that could happen to anyone. This is the reason I am opposed. Of course there is some obvious guilt and some people deserve it but then you would have to have a duel system of some kind where the ones to be hung (or whatever) should only be so when there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever of their guilt. Reasonable doubt, which is the current 'ideal' should not be enough to kill someone, there should be no doubt at all and if there is the slightest doubt then life in prison should be the term. Many have died wrongly and many more have been set free after further evidence who would otherwise have been dead had we still had the death sentence.

I have said many times over the years that I would rather a thousand murderers lived than one innocent person die.

PS: even if we still had the death penalty the person you are talking about above still wouldn't be hung because to the best of my knowledge we have never hung rapists in this country. Some countries do use chemical castration and that could be considered in these extreme circumstances. Just a thought.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:36 pm

How many points on your licence for a death penalty?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:53 pm

A 1/5th of all murders are done by convicted killers out on parole. As such, hundreds of innocent people are killed by convicts compared with the two or three innocents why might be wrongly executed.

Think of the stress of the victim's families and friends, knowing that the killers are still alive.

Think of the millions of pounds keeping them alive.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:25 pm

Dazzler wrote:Where is the evidence that it doesn''t?

There's no evidence that sentencing Burnley FC's top goalscorer to death each season doesn't reduce mass murder rates but I think it would be wiser to ask for evidence that it does before we make it policy and start killing them

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:51 pm

Pstotto wrote:A 1/5th of all murders are done by convicted killers out on parole. As such, hundreds of innocent people are killed by convicts compared with the two or three innocents why might be wrongly executed.

Think of the stress of the victim's families and friends, knowing that the killers are still alive.

Think of the millions of pounds keeping them alive.

I appreciate that bud and sympathise, but in my view there can be no excuse for the state putting to death an innocent person and I don't believe in the idea of co-lateral damage. And I don't care about the millions keeping them alive - millions is a trifle when it comes to a national budget. Until someone invents a foolproof judicial system we cannot let innocent people hang, no matter how many monsters we might keep alive. I know people may disagree with me but that is how I feel.

PS: If the killers you mention are out on parole there must be a reason for that, and what of the killers who are paroled who don't kill (or who never have killed in the first place).

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:15 pm

If we are not going to have the Death Penalty ( I would prefer it if we had) we need to build more prisons and have sentencing and parole boards that are fit for purpose. Currently they are not. As for chemical castration I would be in favour of that for sexual predators. I mean how can they ever be released otherwise ?

turfytopper · Post by **turfytopper** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:39 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Irrelevant until he’s found guilty dont you think...?

Didn't he confess when I believe he said "I would not have done all of it if you'd have caught me after the first 2"?

But yes everyone deserves a fair trial if they plead not guilty.

turfytopper · Post by **turfytopper** » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:43 pm

I'm no liberal...but I don't believe in the death penalty.
One reason being......the many miscarriages of justice.
EG
Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, Stefan Kiszko etc etc etc.

Dazzler · Post by **Dazzler** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:41 am

aggi wrote:Post 148 shows some.

We're talking The UK,not the USA.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:05 am

Dazzler wrote:We're talking The UK,not the USA.

A pretty important consideration bearing in mind the discussion is largely UK based, aggi needs to get with the programme.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:11 am

Dazzler wrote:We're talking The UK,not the USA.

Ah, so you want evidence comparing two identical countries with identical populations at identical times with the solitary difference between the two being one has the death penalty and one doesn't.

You know, I think that could be a little awkward to provide.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:58 am

aggi wrote:Ah, so you want evidence comparing two identical countries with identical populations at identical times with the solitary difference between the two being one has the death penalty and one doesn't.

You know, I think that could be a little awkward to provide.

No but something remotely close to what we are looking at would be appreciated. It's an extreme comparison with that basketcase of a country (no offence to any USA citizens on here) guns are so easily available over there & plenty of other differences as well.
I'm not sure if you are anti/pro capital punishment but forwarding a persuasive argument either way the facts need to stack up to strengthen whichever stance.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:14 am

Houseboy, your logic is silly and perverse. You'd rather see 1000 innocents are murdered than one innocent hanged. Your principles are your concern more than anything else and wonky ones at that.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:47 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:No but something remotely close to what we are looking at would be appreciated. It's an extreme comparison with that basketcase of a country (no offence to any USA citizens on here) guns are so easily available over there & plenty of other differences as well.
I'm not sure if you are anti/pro capital punishment but forwarding a persuasive argument either way the facts need to stack up to strengthen whichever stance.

Well as the whole country is the USA then comparing the relative rates works quite well.

Realistically though it is the ones who want to change the status quo and introduce capital punishment who should provide evidence and they can't.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:28 pm

aggi wrote:Well as the whole country is the USA then comparing the relative rates works quite well.

Realistically though it is the ones who want to change the status quo and introduce capital punishment who should provide evidence and they can't.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I can guarantee if you did impose the death penalty on a he/she they wouldn't repeat offend.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:51 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:I wouldn't be so sure about that, I can guarantee if you did impose the death penalty on a he/she they wouldn't repeat offend.

You can’t guarantee that because they may kill or rape someone whilst in prison.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:56 pm

Rileybobs wrote:You can’t guarantee that because they may kill or rape someone whilst in prison.

I'm not sure you fully understand what I mean, no prison no remand solitary confinement pending a judgement & if warranted then execution for the very very extreme serious cases, so it would be impossible to kill or rape whilst in prison.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:22 pm

This walking piece of filth is of no use to society. As a deterrent and for some sort of recompense for the victims he should suffer for a long time before slowly starving to death.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:35 pm

Pstotto wrote:Houseboy, your logic is silly and perverse. You'd rather see 1000 innocents are murdered than one innocent hanged. Your principles are your concern more than anything else and wonky ones at that.

Sounds a rough kingdom under houseboats rule

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:41 pm

Rileybobs wrote:You can’t guarantee that because they may kill or rape someone whilst in prison.

I think it was obvious to most the poster was referring to the general innocent public and not convicts

trust you to be more concerned about convicts’ welfare than the innocent public.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:24 pm

Blackrod wrote:I think it was obvious to most the poster was referring to the general innocent public and not convicts trust you to be more concerned about convicts’ welfare than the innocent public.

Well no, the poster guaranteed that someone sentenced to death couldn’t repeat offend. I merely pointed out that they could. Your second sentence is just hysterical nonsense which seems par for the course for you.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:30 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Well no, the poster guaranteed that someone sentenced to death couldn’t repeat offend. I merely pointed out that they could. Your second sentence is just hysterical nonsense which seems par for the course for you.

Pray do tell, how can commit a crime when you are in solitary confinement?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:42 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Pray do tell, how can commit a crime when you are in solitary confinement?

You didn’t mention solitary confinement until after I responded so it’s totally irrelevant. You’re making it up as you go along. Can’t believe people are actually debating my factual point which was supposed to be posted rather cheekily to demonstrate that your ‘guarantee’ was incorrect.

And I don’t really want to go there but it’s perfectly possible to commit a crime in solitary confinement. Surely you don’t need me to give you examples of how?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:02 pm

Rileybobs wrote:You didn’t mention solitary confinement until after I responded so it’s totally irrelevant. You’re making it up as you go along. Can’t believe people are actually debating my factual point which was supposed to be posted rather cheekily to demonstrate that your ‘guarantee’ was incorrect.

And I don’t really want to go there but it’s perfectly possible to commit a crime in solitary confinement. Surely you don’t need me to give you examples of how?

Completely solitary no form of contact with anybody & the food is served & collected through a hatch with plastic knifes & forks?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:06 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Completely solitary no form of contact with anybody & the food is served & collected through a hatch with plastic knifes & forks?

Yes.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:10 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Completely solitary no form of contact with anybody & the food is served & collected through a hatch with plastic knifes & forks?

Come on Jakub the answer is obvious....you could say its 'staring (at) you' right in the face and if you just think 'outside the box' im sure you'll work it 'out'

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:29 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Yes.

How?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:45 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:How?

Criminal damage
Assault (spitting through the hatch)
Using threatening or abusive behaviour
Possession of a mobile phone
Blackmail
Attempted escape or actual escape

There will be many more. And it is totally impractical that a prisoner will not come into contact with other people, particularly prison officers. So you could add almost any potential criminal offence to that list.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Criminal damage
Assault (spitting through the hatch)
Using threatening or abusive behaviour
Possession of a mobile phone
Blackmail
Attempted escape or actual escape

There will be many more. And it is totally impractical that a prisoner will not come into contact with other people, particularly prison officers. So you could add almost any potential criminal offence to that list.

He's in a straitjacket for starters & he's potentially getting executed I think that's the least of his concerns the offences you've mentioned.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:54 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:He's in a straitjacket for starters & he's potentially getting executed I think that's the least of his concerns the offences you've mentioned.

You’re making it up as you’re going along. You said you could guarantee that someone on death row can’t offend again. I proved you wrong. You then claimed that someone in solitary confinement couldn’t commit a crime, and I proved you wrong again.

I’m sure you’ll come back to say that when the criminal is dead he won’t be able to offend. And at that point I will agree.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:05 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:He's in a straitjacket for starters & he's potentially getting executed I think that's the least of his concerns the offences you've mentioned.

What if he is Harry Houdini

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:08 pm

Very soon Jakubclaret’s gonna have twisted blood.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:22 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zWpF4tBwhGQ&t=0m58s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:06 pm

A little update on this monster (best word I could think of without being banned)

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... ourt-told/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What should we do with people like this ?

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:11 pm

A room and a blunt instrument.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:22 am

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... lls-court/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cross-examining, Jo Sidhu QC presented an alternative version of events on behalf of the defendant.

He suggested the woman had become upset that McCann was with her daughter in a bedroom.

Mr Sidhu said: "You reacted to this by fetching a kitchen knife. And you had brought that kitchen knife upstairs with you and you were shouting when you approached the bedroom in which Mr McCann and your daughter were doing something and you shouted about the fact Mr McCann was wanted for rape and you burst into the bedroom with this knife and you tried to attack him.

Not sure of the defences angle on this . Mr Sidhu needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

SalouClaret · Post by **SalouClaret** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:42 am

Jo Sidhu needs putting down.

mapinchina · Post by **mapinchina** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:40 am

If a "life sentence" meant living the rest of your life, in solitude, in a tiny cell, never being allowed out at all, then, I imagine that The Death Penalty would be preferable.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:49 am

mapinchina wrote:If a "life sentence" meant living the rest of your life, in solitude, in a tiny cell, never being allowed out at all, then, I imagine that The Death Penalty would be preferable.

In the States, that's pretty much what happens on Death Row. I'm not sure I believe in the Death Penalty, but one thing is for sure - we need to be nearer their level on sentences. We're too lenient over here.

lakedistrictclaret · Post by **lakedistrictclaret** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:58 am

The defence barrister's job is not to get to the truth, and he does not have to believe his client. His job is to put forward the defendant's case to the court, however implausible that might be.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:55 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... n-50552747" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Come on even the floppiest sandal wearers must agree he needs to be put down once convicted.

Sorry when convicted.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:57 pm

Why's that then ?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:56 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Why's that then ?

So you can stand tall find your spine and realise you have agreed that a child adult oap rapist has been taken off the planet.

Being civilised doesn't require being tolerant of what this man will be convicted of.

Find your spine.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:58 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Why's that then ?

Even worse imagine it had been your family affected.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:08 pm

Another report of this animal's horrific behaviour.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... urt-hears/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hibsclaret · Post by **Hibsclaret** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:13 pm

Funkydrummer wrote:Another report of this animal's horrific behaviour.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... urt-hears/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unreal what goes on in this country. It’s like the Wild West...more and more