Danny Baker sacked

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# 1
Damo
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Damo » Sat May 11, 2019 10:03 am

TVC15 wrote:Why is this racist ?
I’m pretty sure pictures of monkeys are not racist in a certain context !

Its posted in exactly the same context as Bakers tweet.
Its possibly even worse, given that it's a monkey holding a gun, depicting violence etc

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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 10:05 am

TVC15 wrote:Why is this racist ?
I’m pretty sure pictures of monkeys are not racist in a certain context !


The point he was making is that Jasper also explicitly equated a black person (himself) to a chimpanzee. Obviously, Damo was being sarcastic. Jasper, whose raison d'être is, as he sees it, to rail against injustices of all kinds meted out to black people, couldn't possibly mean to demean himself by echoing racist stereotypes. Therefore, Damo's point runs, it's proven that it's possible to have a situation where an explicit reference of a specific black person as a chimpanzee is made and there is no racism.

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TVC15
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby TVC15 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:26 am

thatdberight wrote:The point he was making is that Jasper also explicitly equated a black person (himself) to a chimpanzee. Obviously, Damo was being sarcastic. Jasper, whose raison d'être is, as he sees it, to rail against injustices of all kinds meted out to black people, couldn't possibly mean to demean himself by echoing racist stereotypes. Therefore, Damo's point runs, it's proven that it's possible to have a situation where an explicit reference of a specific black person as a chimpanzee is made and there is no racism.


So all about context then ?

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 10:50 am

TVC15 wrote:So all about context then ?


Yes, of course, although you said "pictures of monkeys" weren't automatically racist. I'm sure there would be plenty who'd say "a picture of a monkey representing a specific black person" would always be racist. But it isn't as above. Would it have been racist if one of Jasper's friends had tweeted it about Jasper? One of his political foes? A member of National Action?

And those who see context in Baker's tweet that explains what he did without racism and those who don't are unlikely to agree based on this discussion.

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TVC15
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby TVC15 » Sat May 11, 2019 11:05 am

thatdberight wrote:Yes, of course, although you said "pictures of monkeys" weren't automatically racist. I'm sure there would be plenty who'd say "a picture of a monkey representing a specific black person" would always be racist. But it isn't as above. Would it have been racist if one of Jasper's friends had tweeted it about Jasper? One of his political foes? A member of National Action?

And those who see context in Baker's tweet that explains what he did without racism and those who don't are unlikely to agree based on this discussion.


Pictures of monkeys aren’t automatically racist. Are you seriously questioning that as a factual statement ?

And yes of course it is relevant who posts the picture and who they are posting it about.

As for Baker none of us know whether he is racist - personally I doubt it. But what he posted was racist whether it was intentional or not. What I do know is that his defence of the posting and his subsequent excuses about not knowing which of the royals had the baby are at best lame and at worst plainly lies.

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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 11:16 am

TVC15 wrote:Pictures of monkeys aren’t automatically racist. Are you seriously questioning that as a factual statement


No. If you read what I said, I entirely agree with that.

I don't agree that what Baker posted was necessarily racist. It might have been. For all I know, he deliberately meant to mock the baby's ethnicity. I'm sure there are people who have done so. It seems, to me, unlikely but I'm in no position to exculpate him.

Given that he had previously commented on the new baby, I agree that his, "Whose baby?" defence is not credible. Lame, lie, panic? Again, I don't know.

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Tall Paul
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Tall Paul » Sat May 11, 2019 11:17 am

Who's Lee Jasper?

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AndyClaret
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby AndyClaret » Sat May 11, 2019 11:20 am

So Danny baker is to be investigated by the police for a hate crime, and yet kids are being stabbed to death on a daily basis, well done everybody.

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TVC15
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby TVC15 » Sat May 11, 2019 11:25 am

AndyClaret wrote:So Danny baker is to be investigated by the police for a hate crime, and yet kids are being stabbed to death on a daily basis, well done everybody.


Yep I know....and what about Syria too....and world famine....and no cure for cancer....the housing shortage....all those gun massacres in America

It’s just not on is it
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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 11:42 am

Tall Paul wrote:Who's Lee Jasper?


Taken from Wikipedia so e&oe:

* ex Senior Policy Advisor on Equalities to Ken Livingstone
- resigned 2008 after he sent e-mails of an intimate nature to a woman involved with organisations who had received Greater London Authority grants and that had not declared the relationship. (no criminal case followed)
* Respect Party candidate 2012
* degree in social sciences from Manchester Polytechnic
* served prison sentences for criminal assaults on police officers
* race and human rights activist
* provided training for the Metropolitan Police in community issue but this role ceased in 1995, following the Brixton riots, as police officers blamed Jasper for speech that inflamed the crowd
* officer of the National Assembly Against Racism
* Chief Political Commentator for The Voice 2010 election
* 2010 - awarded a Pride of the Motherland Award (Africa) by the National Consortium of African Student Societies.
* member of the Coalition of Resistance (COR) anti-cuts campaign
* currently co-Chairs Black Activists Rising Against the Cuts
* board member of Lambeth Police Consultative Group
* current member of Labour Party having rejoined in 2016 to support the current leader
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ClaretLoup
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby ClaretLoup » Sat May 11, 2019 11:51 am

I agree that prosecuting Baker would be a waste of police time and public money especially if the case goes to court. However someone has obviously made a complaint & in a high profile case such as this the coppers are almost certainly obliged to investigate not least to maintain their own impartiality.

Bearing in mind that ignorance is no defence Baker is going to struggle to deny any charges of racism. He must be the only media luvvie in London who didn't know that Megan Markle was pregnant and was of mixed race. If he is so disinterested in the Royal family why did he post anything at all? Insinuating anyone who was offended as having "diseased minds" won't help him either nor will telling the BBC to F Off either.

I am looking forward to him pleading guilty and then getting community service in Brixton.

# 12
Test User
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Test User » Sat May 11, 2019 11:51 am

AndyClaret wrote:So Danny baker is to be investigated by the police for a hate crime, and yet kids are being stabbed to death on a daily basis, well done everybody.


No. Someone reported it and the police should investigate every report of a potential crime. Every. Single. One.

Here's how i imagine this investigation will proceed.

- Start of investigation -
Police to public: We got this report of a possible crime. We will investigate.
Police to police: Is this a crime?
Police to police: No.
Police to public: This isn't a crime.
- End of investigation -

Maybe you watch too many TV shows and think that if the police are "investigating" something that it means devoting huge amounts of resources and man power, and interviewing everyone who's ever been in contact with the person being investigated. But in reality some reports of a crime get the two-minute long investigations that deserve that go not much beyond just asking one fairly simple question.

But if you're concerned about knife crime them maybe you should get on at the government for defunding the police force, and for allowing the kind of tax avoidance that fuels their argument of "we can't afford more money for the police".

Or you can just continue to express faux concern for knife crime victims when you can use it as a stick with which to beat people who think differently than you.

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randomclaret2
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby randomclaret2 » Sat May 11, 2019 12:21 pm

' But in reality some reports of a crime get the two-minute long investigations that deserve that go not much beyond just asking one fairly simple question '
Inspector Clouseau speaks...
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evensteadiereddie
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sat May 11, 2019 12:24 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Eddie youre the one wanting other posters necks broke. It's you that wishes harm on fellow clarets. So I just thought that if the opportunity arose, you'd jump at the chance of having you're wishes come true?.



It's "your" not "you're". There's a comma missing after "Eddie". There's an apostrophe missing in your first, correctly-used "you're" and also in "posters' ".

It should be "broken" not "broke". I suggest "Clarets" should have a capital letter. No full stop is required after a question mark.


Your tone, however drunken, comes across as amusing yet a tad hysterical, I feel. Playing the martyr doesn't really suit you.

Have you sobered up yet ? :lol:

Enjoy the game, fella, it should be a good one - drink responsibly. ;)

UTC

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Corky
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Corky » Sat May 11, 2019 12:27 pm

I cannot confirm this but my wife tells me that Bakers wife and daughter have received death threats. The so called royal family really are more trouble than they're worth.

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Tall Paul
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Tall Paul » Sat May 11, 2019 12:32 pm

thatdberight wrote:Taken from Wikipedia so e&oe:

* ex Senior Policy Advisor on Equalities to Ken Livingstone
- resigned 2008 after he sent e-mails of an intimate nature to a woman involved with organisations who had received Greater London Authority grants and that had not declared the relationship. (no criminal case followed)
* Respect Party candidate 2012
* degree in social sciences from Manchester Polytechnic
* served prison sentences for criminal assaults on police officers
* race and human rights activist
* provided training for the Metropolitan Police in community issue but this role ceased in 1995, following the Brixton riots, as police officers blamed Jasper for speech that inflamed the crowd
* officer of the National Assembly Against Racism
* Chief Political Commentator for The Voice 2010 election
* 2010 - awarded a Pride of the Motherland Award (Africa) by the National Consortium of African Student Societies.
* member of the Coalition of Resistance (COR) anti-cuts campaign
* currently co-Chairs Black Activists Rising Against the Cuts
* board member of Lambeth Police Consultative Group
* current member of Labour Party having rejoined in 2016 to support the current leader


Who should be sacking him then? I assumed he was a BBC employee since Damo appears to think he should be treated the same as Danny Baker.

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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 12:33 pm

Corky wrote:I cannot confirm this but my wife tells me that Bakers wife and daughter have received death threats. The so called royal family really are more trouble than they're worth.


If that's true,and I hope it's not, it may not be over zealous fans of the royalty behind it.

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Dark Cloud
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Dark Cloud » Sat May 11, 2019 12:40 pm

Whether Baker's tweet was funny or not (most, like me, seem to feel it wasn't) and whether Baker really is a racist and knew exactly what he was doing (most, like me, seem to think he isn't) and whether the blunder really was a sackable offence (most, like me, seem to think in the current climate the BBC probably had little choice) SURELY the whole thing is being blown out of all proportion and being analysed and over analysed to death. Crumbs, surely it's not THAT big a news story, yet is rumbling on for days and days and days.
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GordonvaleClaret
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby GordonvaleClaret » Sat May 11, 2019 12:58 pm

I reckon it looks like a young Winston Churchill.

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 1:32 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Who should be sacking him then? I assumed he was a BBC employee since Damo appears to think he should be treated the same as Danny Baker.


I think it's clear that wasn't Damo's point. You might disagree with his point but that wasn't it.
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Burnley Ace
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Burnley Ace » Sat May 11, 2019 1:46 pm

Whether the picture is racist is a subjective question. A racist incident is defined as ‘any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person”. However for it to be a crime the CPS guidelines are "Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race". What was his motivation?

Who made the complaint to the police? IMO the only people in a position to make that complaint should be someone who actually saw it on his twitter feed. The first time I saw it was on this thread - does that make bfccrazy a racist or perpetrator of a hate crime because he posted it? Can I make a complaint because I read about it and felt offended without even seeing the image?

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Greenmile
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Greenmile » Sat May 11, 2019 1:51 pm

Rowls wrote:There's a real lack of effort in Danny Baker's sackings these days.

At least when he called a referee "a worm in the heart of football" you knew that he *meant* to be insulting.

Worst Danny Baker sacking ever 3/10


I'm sorry you find this thread on racism to be such an opportunity to be flippant.

(as a massive hypocrite once said)
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Test User
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Test User » Sat May 11, 2019 1:54 pm

Well, well, well. How the turntables...

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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 2:14 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:Whether the picture is racist is a subjective question. A racist incident is defined as ‘any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person”. However for it to be a crime the CPS guidelines are "Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race". What was his motivation?

Who made the complaint to the police? IMO the only people in a position to make that complaint should be someone who actually saw it on his twitter feed. The first time I saw it was on this thread - does that make bfccrazy a racist or perpetrator of a hate crime because he posted it? Can I make a complaint because I read about it and felt offended without even seeing the image?


That this tweet was debatable is evidenced by the number of news outlets which replicated it. Depending on what it was, though, yes, I think you'd be very ill-advised to repeat some tweets.

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Test User » Sat May 11, 2019 2:29 pm

thatdberight wrote:That this tweet was debatable is evidenced by the number of news outlets which replicated it. Depending on what it was, though, yes, I think you'd be very ill-advised to repeat some tweets.


I don't think there's ever anything wrong with quoting/reporting on what other people have said, and providing commentary on their statements.
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thatdberight
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby thatdberight » Sat May 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Test User wrote:I don't think there's ever anything wrong with quoting/reporting on what other people have said, and providing commentary on their statements.


Neither do I.

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Rowls
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Rowls » Sat May 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Greenmile wrote:I'm sorry you find this thread on racism to be such an opportunity to be flippant.

(as a massive hypocrite once said)


This is thread about a joke which Danny Baker has said was not intended as racist.

It's a thread about a joke. And the ensuing media circus.

Which I think makes for a flipping brilliant opportunity for flippancy.

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Greenmile
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Greenmile » Sat May 11, 2019 6:44 pm

Rowls wrote:This is a thread about (possible) racism from someone who is not connected to the Labour Party or Jeremy Corbyn.

Which I think makes for a flipping brilliant opportunity for flippancy.


FTFY

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby evensteadiereddie » Sun May 12, 2019 10:00 pm

Guess what ? Ringo didn't turn up. Phew, I live to watch another season.
Close one, that. :lol:

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RingoMcCartney
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby RingoMcCartney » Wed May 15, 2019 12:55 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:Guess what ? Ringo didn't turn up. Phew, I live to watch another season.
Close one, that. :lol:


The young lad who's party it was had come down with chicken pox so I took my youngest on.

I'm sure you'll understand that it wouldn't be an appropriate conversation to have with a 6 year child. "Just wait there love, I want to introduce myself to that man who hopes I break my neck"

Not to worry Edward I'm sure we'll have a catch up at some stage.

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby IanMcL » Wed May 15, 2019 1:02 pm

Greenmile wrote:I'm sorry you find this thread on racism to be such an opportunity to be flippant.

(as a massive hypocrite once said)

That is not the title at all!
The poster being accused submitted a valid post.

# 32
Greenmile
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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby Greenmile » Wed May 15, 2019 5:11 pm

IanMcL wrote:That is not the title at all!
The poster being accused submitted a valid post.


What was Baker sacked for, again?

Edit - just to add, I have no problems with flippancy, no matter what the subject is. I hate hypocrisy, though.

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Re: Danny Baker sacked

Postby IanMcL » Wed May 15, 2019 5:27 pm

Greenmile wrote:What was Baker sacked for, again?

Edit - just to add, I have no problems with flippancy, no matter what the subject is. I hate hypocrisy, though.

We know why he was sacked and all those points are valid. However, the title leaves the thread open to most inputs - even , 'and Chris Hughton'.


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