Crouch could well stay

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# 1
Darthlaw
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Darthlaw » Sat May 11, 2019 8:20 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:There's an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that Dyche does know what he's doing... unless it's signing strikers


Aye, Gray was gash.
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CombatClaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby CombatClaret » Sat May 11, 2019 8:24 pm

jojomk1 wrote:a big fight to stay above the bottom 3


That's just the reality of Burnley in the Premier League.

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Goody1975
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Goody1975 » Sat May 11, 2019 9:42 pm

jojomk1 wrote:"A couple squad additions and maybe one 'big' signing (a Che Adams type) is what I see as realistic.


Sorry, but for me that scenario will see us in a big fight to stay above the bottom 3 next season

Apart from youth with good potential, the only position for which we need a "squad" player is LB

I would also hope that, given SD's comments re needing money to be made available this summer, he is looking for more - we ended up spending around £30m last summer and only ended up with "squad" players[/quote]

...and like was said above i fully expect a replacement for Ward (squad player, hopefully with potential) and the main focus being on central midfield and the forward line, two players in the £20 Million range will see us just about spent up with little left to replace other elements of the team that so many have issues with, that's unless we let players like Tarkowski and Pope leave for decent fees.

This year will not be about squad filling.
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Giftonsnoidea
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Giftonsnoidea » Sat May 11, 2019 11:39 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi Gifton, I'll grant you "tall" wages - but doubt a 38/39 year old footballer will be on "big" wages. ;)


If he’s on 30k a week I hope he doesn’t get renewed, incredibly limited for a bench warmer even if he is Dyche’s mate

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Paul Waine
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Paul Waine » Sun May 12, 2019 11:22 am

Giftonsnoidea wrote:If he’s on 30k a week I hope he doesn’t get renewed, incredibly limited for a bench warmer even if he is Dyche’s mate


I'd agree with that, though I've no experience on how the negotiating strength of a 38 year old footballer, whether he's seeking to play for a Premier League club, or continuing to kick a ball in the lower divisions.

UTC

# 6
agreenwood
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby agreenwood » Sun May 12, 2019 6:01 pm

Please no. He may be a “proper bloke”, but he’s also proper ****.

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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun May 12, 2019 6:03 pm

After today’s cameo I think we can do better!! We went from some decent passing to aimlessly trying to lump it to his head. Vydra must have been fuming he was put on instead of him.
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jrgbfc
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby jrgbfc » Sun May 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Looking forward to us announcing Crouchie's new 1 year deal sometime this week.

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nil_desperandum
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby nil_desperandum » Sun May 12, 2019 6:25 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:After today’s cameo I think we can do better!! We went from some decent passing to aimlessly trying to lump it to his head. Vydra must have been fuming he was put on instead of him.


Why not bring on both? Crouch provided lots of scraps that Vydra, with his pace, could have fed from. (Not a long term solution but could have worked today).

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summitclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby summitclaret » Sun May 12, 2019 6:27 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Looking forward to us announcing Crouchie's new 1 year deal sometime this week.


Well hopefully that dire performance puts paid to the stupid idea of him staying. Could not out jump people 6 inch smaller.
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KlyBfc
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby KlyBfc » Sun May 12, 2019 6:33 pm

Please please god no. I’m more than happy with our directness and body on the line defending. However our play each time Crouch comes on is horrendous to watch. The floaty balls up for his dire efforts to head it make watching us when he comes nothing short of painful, not sure how much of that I can genuinely put up with.

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jojomk1
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby jojomk1 » Sun May 12, 2019 6:45 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:After today’s cameo I think we can do better!! We went from some decent passing to aimlessly trying to lump it to his head. Vydra must have been fuming he was put on instead of him.


He is our Plan B

Will be like a new signing when the new contract is announced :o

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Giftonsnoidea
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Giftonsnoidea » Sun May 12, 2019 6:47 pm

Dyche should save his wages and put himself on up front , he’d be just as effective

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aggi
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby aggi » Sun May 12, 2019 6:47 pm

The issue with Crouch is that even if he does well we don't have the team to exploit him.

Teams push up a really high line (it's nothing new, we did the same when he came off the bench against us) and we don't have the pace to make them worry that we might break past them so the tactic just becomes lob it up and hope for the best.

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bfcjg
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby bfcjg » Sun May 12, 2019 6:51 pm

He is past it.

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beddie
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby beddie » Sun May 12, 2019 7:35 pm

I'm sure he's a great lad but it confirmed it for me this afternoon that we should let him go and free up his wages towards a much better striker. He looks immobile at times. It's going to be another tough season. We can't afford to keep players that are unable to compete for 90 mins.

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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Giftonsnoidea » Sun May 12, 2019 7:37 pm

I heard the wicker man is on a free, sign him up!

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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Long Time Lurker » Sun May 12, 2019 7:47 pm

bfcmik wrote:To be fair, we have only seen of him what SD has allowed him to show. A few minutes here and there when desperation sets in doesn't really give him the opportunity to show what contributions he could make. Same as Vydra really, to a degree.

SD and his team see all the players for many hours during training sessions so have a much better understanding of the physicality and skills that Crouch still has to offer. If they, and the stats they are addicted to, believe that Crouch is still capable, value for money (it is a squad game we play now and not everyone will get a chance out on the pitch to prove their worth to the team) and is still mentally prepared then I am happy to trust them.

After all our season after Crouch was signed wasn't that bad, was it?


Sorry to be the bringer of dark statistics, but that isn't true.

Crouch played his first game on the 2nd of February against Southampton and we drew 1-1 in the final moments thanks to a hand ball penalty that he was involved in. That game came in the midst of our most productive run, which started with the match against West Ham on the 30th of December. During that run we notched up 5 wins and 3 draws.

Following his initial appearance he sat on the bench for two matches. Then returned for another 4 matches and we lost all of them. His final match was today and we lost.

To summarise, we lost five of the six matches that he played in. Obviously, that isn't all down to him. However, we did devote all of our tacical substitutions in those games towards playing a style that suited him. The most graphic example of the impact that had was the Crystal Palace match. In the first half we had them under our thumb, the changes were made, we lost the middle ground and they tore us apart.

It is stretching credibility, but I think Peters appendix saved our season. Had we persisted with tailoring our usual game to meet his specific needs I think there is a good chance we would have been relegated.

I don't think it is simply a matter of his age. As Dyche pointed out his game has never been reliant on pace, so putting a few years on the clock hasn't hampered him as much as it would a speedster who is reliant on pace. However, the game hasn't been cocooned in a temporal bubble for the last ten years. The speed of play in the Premier League has increased dramatically.

I think a 28 year old Crouch would be less effective today than he was in the past. The game has moved on and while he might be a "weapon" without pace and physicality he is the equivalent of a long pike when the conflict has moved on to favour long bows shooting rapid arrows that cover ground quickly.

His height causes confusion, although most of the teams he has faced have coped with it fairly well. They have been more troubled by the volume of balls being launched into their box. I think a rapid player, like Vydra, would cause the same degree of confusion. Teams know what they are facing with our two wrecking balls and they prepare for them as best they can. So when we throw something new into the mix, whether it is height or pace, it will unbalance them to the same degree.

Having found his podcast, because of his arrival here, I have listened to a lot of the episodes. Crouch really does comes across as a supremely likable bloke. Whether he stays or goes I will tune in to listen to it and I would encourage anyone who hasn't to give it a listen. Unfortunately teams don't let you score because you are a good bloke.

My main concern is his inability to play 90 minutes week in and week out. That to me is a big risk and a burden that we can't afford to carry. It's okay to say that he is a third or fourth option, but a couple of injuries and he is suddenly our only option. Football is a results business and a lot of people associated with the club depend on winning results to safeguard their livliehoods. For that reason we can't afford to carry any passengers.

Secondly, spaces in our squad are limited in terms of the 25 player restriction and our wage bill. A player who needs the team to play to their strengths prevents us from playing to other strengths. More importantly a player that offers a one dimensional tactic, that is already becoming predictable, limits us. Peters spot on the bench could be filled by another player who can play in more than one position ( attacking mid / striker or winger / striker ) which would provide us with more tactical options. Not only in terms of games, but provisions for covering injuries and employing new formations.

Thirdly, whenever he plays another player doesn't. Or to put it simply another player misses out on valuable game time that could benefit their development. To put on my financial hat for a moment, that development is also key to raising the value of players through visibility.

Lastly, he may not be on 60K a week, but if he signs a new contract then I expect he will be on more than we would pay for a younger player starting out in the game. Filling a breakthrough slot in our roster as Rigg would say. A few minutes here and there could be of enormous benefit to some of the younger players, giving them something to aim for. At the moment he represents a stop gap that is denying Vydra game time, let along a younger player who could fill the spot on the bench for far less money. A player at the start of their career who is just as hungry as he is.

Putting Daniel Agyei on the bench, within touching distance of first team game time, would have done our cause a world of good if we are have it in mind to offer him a new contract.

Taking everything into account, and as much as I've grown to like the bloke through his podcast, I simply feel that he is a niche market luxury that we can't afford to keep and our loss could be a Championship teams gain.
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dougcollins
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby dougcollins » Sun May 12, 2019 7:48 pm

Should never have come and shouldn't be anywhere near next season.
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scouseclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby scouseclaret » Sun May 12, 2019 7:50 pm

Can’t see any sense at all in keeping him on. Other than winning a dubious penalty against Southampton, he’s contributed absolutely nothing. I’m still convinced the only reason we brought him in the first place was to deflect attention away from selling Vokes when we were deep in the mire.

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CHEWBACCA
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby CHEWBACCA » Sun May 12, 2019 7:55 pm

I bet Northcote Manor will be rubbing their hands together as hes been living there since he signed!
Last edited by CHEWBACCA on Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dermotdermot
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby dermotdermot » Sun May 12, 2019 8:31 pm

Hopefully it was just a ‘farewell’ appearance.

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warksclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby warksclaret » Sun May 12, 2019 8:33 pm

This is where our Chairman steps in and says "NO WAY SEAN", its my money.

Rather sign Jay Rod-now that it seems unlikely WBA will go up-on a two year deal. Still a great player-voted the Players Player Of The Year by WBA. Use Crouch's wages on him, on a 2 year deal. Can play wide and target man
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Blackrod
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Blackrod » Sun May 12, 2019 8:57 pm

His wages need to go towards a player we actually need. His wages could make up part of the wages of the quality replacements we need for Cork and Hendrick in midfield. He would be nowhere near any other PL club bench. Next stop League 1 or retirement.
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Vino blanco
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Vino blanco » Sun May 12, 2019 9:00 pm

Just get rid, I said he was an embarrassing signing, when we signed him and my opinion hasn't changed.

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FCBurnley
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby FCBurnley » Sun May 12, 2019 9:07 pm

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thank you. Bye

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Il Duce
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Il Duce » Sun May 12, 2019 9:16 pm

Feel that we haven’t utilised Crouch effectively at all - whenever he is on the field we resort to lumping aimless balls in his direction hoping that there will be a positive outcome. Predictable and boring.

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MDWat
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby MDWat » Sun May 12, 2019 9:18 pm

Completely ineffective again today.

Needs to go.

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boatshed bill
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby boatshed bill » Sun May 12, 2019 9:23 pm

Il Duce wrote:Feel that we haven’t utilised Crouch effectively at all - whenever he is on the field we resort to lumping aimless balls in his direction hoping that there will be a positive outcome. Predictable and boring.


That's why we signed him. apparently "he's a weapon" :D

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burnleymik
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby burnleymik » Sun May 12, 2019 9:43 pm

Crouch isn't for me. Seems like a top bloke and great to have around the place, but just isn't upto the standard required in the Prem.

Most of Dyche's recent signings haven't got past the bench, despite them looking like they have potential, i.e. Gibson and Vydra. Are the board going to be factoring that in before they let him loose with the chequebook?

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CombatClaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby CombatClaret » Sun May 12, 2019 9:49 pm

burnleymik wrote:Most of Dyche's recent signings haven't got past the bench, despite them looking like they have potential, i.e. Gibson and Vydra. Are the board going to be factoring that in before they let him loose with the chequebook?


Dyche might argue his singings haven't gotten past the bench because the chequebook was the factor.

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Dark Cloud
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Dark Cloud » Sun May 12, 2019 9:52 pm

Crumbs, on that cameo??? I bloody hope not. He was garbage and yet still had a gilt edged chance to score and blew it. Christ, let Vydra have a bloody go and let Crouch retire FFS!! Vydra must be blazing!!!

# 33
jedi_master
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby jedi_master » Sun May 12, 2019 10:07 pm

I genuinely don’t understand the physics of someone that tall not beating a comparative midget like Koscielny in the air (repeatedly).

Crouch was a disgusting signing and it’s gone exactly as 99% of us predicted it would. Please end this experiment and let this ‘great lad’ top up his pension at a more suitable level (I.e, League One).

# 34
Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun May 12, 2019 10:14 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Crumbs, on that cameo??? I bloody hope not. He was garbage and yet still had a gilt edged chance to score and blew it. Christ, let Vydra have a bloody go and let Crouch retire FFS!! Vydra must be blazing!!!


Hardly blew it it was blocked by his own teammate!

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Dark Cloud
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Dark Cloud » Sun May 12, 2019 10:32 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Hardly blew it it was blocked by his own teammate!

He mis hit it. He was only 6 yards out for goodness sake. A good hit and it's a goal, but Crouchy messed it up!! Bloody lanky clown!!!

# 36
Swizzlestick
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Swizzlestick » Sun May 12, 2019 11:38 pm

So far away from the required standard it’s unreal. Don’t want to see him back next season. Vydra must be absolutely baffled.

# 37
Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 12:01 am

Don’t mind him staying but we need to make sure he’s not third choice. We need better than that.

# 38
Right_winger
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Right_winger » Mon May 13, 2019 12:33 am

It’s bad enough that crouch was seen as an emergency back up this season never mind signing on for us next season

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fatboy47
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby fatboy47 » Mon May 13, 2019 6:42 am

I'd like to see him get a few starts next season.

That's when we'll see the best of him. With 30 plus starts I'm confident he will be around the 15 to 20 goal mark.

I'd be over the moon if we gave him a 2 year deal. People forget how Matthews was stil a potent threat at this level right into his late 40's.
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# 40
MACCA
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby MACCA » Mon May 13, 2019 7:05 am

fatboy47 wrote:I'd like to see him get a few starts next season.

That's when we'll see the best of him. With 30 plus starts I'm confident he will be around the 15 to 20 goal mark.

I'd be over the moon if we gave him a 2 year deal. People forget how Matthews was stil a potent threat at this level right into his late 40's.



Put the rod away, you're less subtle than me, and I'm poor.

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Reecey1987
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Reecey1987 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:39 am


# 42
Lancasterclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 7:45 am

If he stays, then he's a fourth choice option, which means we are staying with our current four or Vydra is leaving.

I don't mind him as a 4th option, but I'm not keen on it!

# 43
Dodobdobodobo
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Dodobdobodobo » Mon May 13, 2019 8:06 am

He never won an header yesterday and he’s a foot taller than anyone else, his mobility is nill but he’s good around the dressing room :D
Get rid now!!!!!!!
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Cubanclaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Cubanclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 9:34 am

The cameo on his debut was 8/10 - he definitely turned the game from a defeat to a draw.
Since then, its not really worked and our tendency to just lump up those floaty balls is predictable and easy to read for the vast majority of centre halves at this level.

It sounds like Southampton are in the hun for Mitrovic at £30M - I'd like to see us go back for Adams at Birmingham and/or Rodriguez, who is a classy footballer. Hard to see Vydra staying, he's have surely figured yesterday if he was going to be part of the future.

# 45
JTClaret
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby JTClaret » Mon May 13, 2019 1:17 pm

Crouch causes absolute bedlam in the box as there are so many defenders who don't know what to do against him.
He's never going to be a starter, and he's never going to try and argue that he should be - The club will keep him until we sign another striker

# 46
Spike
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Spike » Mon May 13, 2019 1:27 pm

Either he jumps at the chance or why are we bothering .Not even if he is cheap -we want someone totally committed.

Needs to spend more minutes on the pitch than blogging

# 47
jojomk1
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby jojomk1 » Mon May 13, 2019 2:58 pm

[quote="warksclaret"]This is where our Chairman steps in and says "NO WAY SEAN", its my money.

Whilst it's not his personal money I do get the gist of this comment
SD was saying last summer that he expected us to break our transfer record (presume in relation to Jay)
That didn't happen but we did spend around £30m on players who were not being given much of a chance
So signings during this season have not really improved the starting eleven at all
Go back to the previous season and only Charlie Taylor seems to be really looking good for the future - Wood and Cork also came in but two years on, a fair number of supporters would probably be happy if they could be replaced this summer
Again, over £30m was spent although we did recoup this and more from the sale of Gray and Keane
The role of Rigg will be interesting this summer
As Technical Director I presume he has a strong say on all football matters which would include player retentions as well as incomings
I presume also that he will be reporting directly to the Chairman whilst maintaining a strong relationship with SD
SD hints (if news reports are to be believed) that he sees a valued role for Crouch
Interesting to see if the Chairman and/or Rigg agree with him

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fatboy47
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby fatboy47 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:34 pm

MACCA wrote:Put the rod away, you're less subtle than me, and I'm poor.



So....anyone who disagrees with you, about a full England international mind....thought of by our manager as a genuine weapon, and model professional.....is merely fishing.

I'm with Dyche on this one....a genuine upgrade on Vokes, captured without a big fee and match ready.

# 49
Spijed
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby Spijed » Mon May 13, 2019 3:55 pm

jojomk1 wrote:


Wood replaced? Blimey

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ashtonlongsider
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Re: Crouch could well stay

Postby ashtonlongsider » Mon May 13, 2019 5:47 pm

I couldn't believe it when Crouchy came on when we were in dire need of trying something different. Just wonder what Vydra must be thinking. Much as I like Crouch we need to be looking at other options given the wages he'd no doubt command.


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