European Elections - Apols .....

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standishclarets
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European Elections - Apols .....

Postby standishclarets » Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm

... because I should think there are not many of you who could give a toss!

We voted democratically to leave the EU and so the European Elections are a needless waste of time and money.

We received our voting papers over the weekend (we have opted for postal voting). I kid you not - the voting paper is nearly 60cm in length (nearly 2ft), with 9 Parties and 2 Independents and 61 candidates!! So, how do you tell the politicians that you have had enough?

I know a lot of people who this time are going to spoil their ballot papers - by writing across it in big letters - THIS IS A LOAD OF BO%%OCKS! I can assure you of two things - your ballot paper will be recorded and you will have a smug grin on your face as you drop your paper into the the box.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 2:26 pm

I guessing that you voted Brexit!

In all honesty, you shouldn't spoil your ballot paper, you should vote for a Brexit supporting candidate.

Course, the No 1 pick for the Brexit Party in the North West thinks the Warrington IRA bombing was justified, so that might be a problem (if it isn't, it bloody should be)
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby standishclarets » Mon May 13, 2019 2:31 pm

No, I voted to remain. But, I would uphold the original vote to leave. You can't keep wanting to change a decision just because you don't like it. God know where that would lead!!
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Then you should vote for a Brexit supporting candidate rather than spoil your ballet paper.

And you should also bear in mind that the Brexit Party No 1 choice thinks the Warrington bombing was justified.

So vote for the Conservative or Labour candidates as I think they are Brexit backers.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby martin_p » Mon May 13, 2019 2:38 pm

standishclarets wrote:No, I voted to remain. But, I would uphold the original vote to leave. You can't keep wanting to change a decision just because you don't like it. God know where that would lead!!


A fully functioning democracy?
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 2:45 pm

You can't have another vote in a democracy.

Its called Farages law I think
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby standishclarets » Mon May 13, 2019 3:13 pm

Can someone please explain how voting for a bunch of of freeloading MEPs is going to get Brexit through our British parliament?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Falcon » Mon May 13, 2019 3:25 pm

'freeloading MEPs'.... 'I voted to remain'.... hmmm
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 3:28 pm

standishclarets wrote:
We received our voting papers over the weekend (we have opted for postal voting). I kid you not - the voting paper is nearly 60cm in length (nearly 2ft), with 9 Parties and 2 Independents and 61 candidates!! So, how do you tell the politicians that you have had enough?


Not sure whether you're just on the wind up or what, but it's a bit pointless spending time filling in a form for postal vote when the deadline was almost a week ago, (May 8th).
You can still get a proxy vote if you hurry. (Deadline Wednesday).

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Foulthrow » Mon May 13, 2019 3:35 pm

standishclarets wrote:No, I voted to remain. But, I would uphold the original vote to leave. You can't keep wanting to change a decision just because you don't like it. God know where that would lead!!


Isn’t that the whole point of democracy?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 3:47 pm

standishclarets wrote:No, I voted to remain. But, I would uphold the original vote to leave. You can't keep wanting to change a decision just because you don't like it. God know where that would lead!!

I once booked a fairly cheap holiday but then discovered that other people had had an unsatisfactory experience, and i wouldn't like it.
Did I a) Say to myself, you've booked it so you'd better just go along and make the best of it
b) Contact the travel agent and get them to change an upgrade it
c) Cancel it all together.
Obviously you would have opted for a), I didn't, but nor did I cancel altogether.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby PaintYorkClaretnBlue » Mon May 13, 2019 4:06 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I once booked a fairly cheap holiday but then discovered that other people had had an unsatisfactory experience, and i wouldn't like it.
Did I a) Say to myself, you've booked it so you'd better just go along and make the best of it
b) Contact the travel agent and get them to change an upgrade it
c) Cancel it all together.
Obviously you would have opted for a), I didn't, but nor did I cancel altogether.


I’m not sure that the eu is up for changing and upgrading.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby claret2018 » Mon May 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Anyone who spoils their ballot paper needs to have a serious look at themselves. You're supposed to be a grown-up.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby PaintYorkClaretnBlue » Mon May 13, 2019 4:15 pm

Not at all, I think that spoiling your paper is a better way of expressing your disgust at politicians as a whole than simply not voting.

It says that you could be arsed turning up to vote but there is nobody you have confidence in enough to vote. The number of spoiled votes is counted.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 4:47 pm

PaintYorkClaretnBlue wrote:I’m not sure that the eu is up for changing and upgrading.


The EU has constantly evolved and changed, That's always been a big argument that brexiters have made for leaving. (Their issue is that it hasn't evolved in the way that they would have liked, but of course the UK has voted for all its changes.)
But anyway, when I was making an admittedly pretty poor analogy, I was really referring to our government and those in Parliament getting a better deal that would please the majority.
My basic point however, as you know, is that in life we don't always press on regardless without a rethink or a change of strategy if we can see that it's not going to turnout as well as expected or as promised.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 4:58 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:The EU has constantly evolved and changed, That's always been a big argument that brexiters have made for leaving. (Their issue is that it hasn't evolved in the way that they would have liked, but of course the UK has voted for all its changes.)
But anyway, when I was making an admittedly pretty poor analogy, I was really referring to our government and those in Parliament getting a better deal that would please the majority.
My basic point however, as you know, is that in life we don't always press on regardless without a rethink or a change of strategy if we can see that it's not going to turnout as well as expected or as promised.


Brexiteers - The EU will never evolve or change

Remainers - its always evolved and changed, or how else did Lisbon and Maastricht come about?

Brexiteers -

Remainers -

Brexiteers - WE WON 1-0 GET OVER IT
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Damo » Mon May 13, 2019 5:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You can't have another vote in a democracy.

Its called Farages law I think

You can have another vote. It's called a "peoples vote"
Erdogan has just organized one in Istanbul because it's people voted the wrong way
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby AndyClaret » Mon May 13, 2019 5:01 pm

Good job it's not first past the post for you remoaners.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 5:09 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Good job it's not first past the post for you remoaners.


And you actually think that in a FPTP scenario all those remain parties would all stand against each other?
As it stands it's roughly one third favouring a "no deal" brexit (that has already been rejected by Parliament), and the rest favouring either remain or some kind of compromise

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby AndyClaret » Mon May 13, 2019 5:16 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:And you actually think that in a FPTP scenario all those remain parties would all stand against each other?
As it stands it's roughly one third favouring a "no deal" brexit (that has already been rejected by Parliament), and the rest favouring either remain or some kind of compromise


You mean like they're not doing for the Peterborough by-election ?
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby summitclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 5:18 pm

standishclarets wrote:Can someone please explain how voting for a bunch of of freeloading MEPs is going to get Brexit through our British parliament?


Everyone that thinks we should leave the EU should vote for the Brexit party or if not tory, because the remainers will assume every other vote is to remain. Maybe about 30% of labour votes can reasonably be assumed to be for leave. If 50.0001% vote Brexit/tory ( including say 30% labour) then it will be pretty clear that we still want to leave and weaken the case for a ridiculous second referendum massively.

Such a vote will enable the new tory leader to argue for a free trade deal with a this time credible threat of planned no deal if the EU continue to be unreasonable.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby standishclarets » Mon May 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Its obvious not many, if any, of you have seen the voting paper for the EU elections. When you do, good luck with it! As I have said, there are 9 Parties and 2 Independents - from the obvious to the laughable.

The deadline date for returning the postal vote for the EU election is Thursday 23 May, so not sure what the relevance is of the date of 8 May, as mentioned in post 9.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Damo wrote:You can have another vote. It's called a "peoples vote"
Erdogan has just organized one in Istanbul because it's people voted the wrong way


Yeah, what is it with authoritarian dictators who win popular votes and assume it gives them the right to do whatever they want eh?

There is a lesson in there somewhere for those of you who back Farage, and it sums it up that anyone actually has to point it out.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 5:26 pm

AndyClaret wrote:You mean like they're not doing for the Peterborough by-election ?


It's a By-election so it's normal that each party stands. It's not "de facto" a referendum on EU membership.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 5:27 pm

standishclarets wrote:Its obvious not many, if any, of you have seen the voting paper for the EU elections. When you do, good luck with it! As I have said, there are 9 Parties and 2 Independents - from the obvious to the laughable.

The deadline date for returning the postal vote for the EU election is Thursday 23 May, so not sure what the relevance is of the date of 8 May, as mentioned in post 9.

I think you need to read up a bit.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby aggi » Mon May 13, 2019 5:40 pm

The 8 May date is the deadline for applying for a postal vote.

The vote needs to be sent back so it arrives before 10pm on voting day. (I think nil_desperandum has mixed up the two).
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby CrosspoolClarets » Mon May 13, 2019 6:04 pm

Lancs is very good at handing out lessons like in post 23 but not very good at identifying a need for them himself.

Anyway, this will be viewed as Referendum 2 by many so it is important to vote and not to spoil ballots (although I accidentally spoilt mine in a rush, hey hum).

The polls are very interesting because as I predicted 3 weeks ago the pro Brexit parties are constantly on around 50% (UKIP+Brexit+Conservative) and the other parties are also by definition around 50% (I include Labour who are making it clear they are pro-Remain, the lies are now being reversed and the truth is appearing).

So the country is still just as split, a new proper referendum will make this split a vicious falling out within local communities (where this time 50% will fiercely object to the legitimacy of it and will fall out with those who do not), so the politicians need an urgent message given to them to get this Brexit sorted (or urgently resign and let someone else), respect the vote, and move on.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 6:10 pm

aggi wrote:The 8 May date is the deadline for applying for a postal vote.

The vote needs to be sent back so it arrives before 10pm on voting day. (I think nil_desperandum has mixed up the two).


Ok. All I know is that by the time we got polling cards last week, when I applied for a postal vote it said that I had missed the cut off date for applying, so you can perhaps understand my mistake. (I have of course complained about this, but in the meantime we've registered for proxy votes).

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby aggi » Mon May 13, 2019 6:17 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Ok. All I know is that by the time we got polling cards last week, when I applied for a postal vote it said that I had missed the cut off date for applying, so you can perhaps understand my mistake. (I have of course complained about this, but in the meantime we've registered for proxy votes).


Agreed it wasn't that clear on the polling card and they're coming through pretty late. I ended up going on the website to work out the postal vote details.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Mon May 13, 2019 6:19 pm

standishclarets wrote:
The deadline date for returning the postal vote for the EU election is Thursday 23 May, so not sure what the relevance is of the date of 8 May, as mentioned in post 9.

Apologies for my error, which I have explained fully in post 28. Hopefully you will understand - from my experience - how I made this mistake.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lowbankclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 6:38 pm

I think there will be areas of the country where The Brexit Party pole around or over the 40% mark.
The main parties need to wake up to the fact that the public are fed up with them and if they don’t get their act together the next general election will see the Brexit party winning enough seats to be a right royal pain in their side.

Interesting times.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 6:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yeah, what is it with authoritarian dictators who win popular votes and assume it gives them the right to do whatever they want eh?

There is a lesson in there somewhere for those of you who back Farage, and it sums it up that anyone actually has to point it out.


FAO Crosspool, cos he hasn't read it

Just remind me again the checks on Farage as leader of the Brexit party.

Just remind me again of the policies of Farage as leader of the Brexit party.

Just remind me again of the background of Farage, leader of the Brexit party.

You are a bright bloke Crosspool, which makes your refusal to see stuff like this even more weird, and the continuing desire to take me on stuff like this is even weirder.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby bfcjg » Mon May 13, 2019 7:11 pm

I'm heartily sick to the back teeth of politicians of all persuasions
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 7:44 pm

Completely understandable, but the alternatives are not what the UK is about.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby If it be your will » Mon May 13, 2019 8:01 pm

.
Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 8:05 pm

I did, and have no problem with it as it shows the EU evolved

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby If it be your will » Mon May 13, 2019 8:15 pm

.
Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Test User » Mon May 13, 2019 8:19 pm

standishclarets wrote:No, I voted to remain. But, I would uphold the original vote to leave. You can't keep wanting to change a decision just because you don't like it. God know where that would lead!!



Not liking a decision you've previously made seems to be a great reason for changing it.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Hipper » Mon May 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Tell me why I should vote in this EU election?

It's for an election to a Parliament that we don't want to be a part of - we're leaving the EU.

Voting for a party that doesn't want us in the EU seems very silly - what will their purpose be in the European Parliament?

Why should this election be viewed as a referendum on Brexit. It isn't (or at least that's not how I see it) and interpreting it that way is hijacking the result for other purposes.

On the other hand I do wonder at the stupidity of the electorate who apparently use local elections as a comment on national issues, and the politicians and pundits who see it that way too.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Hipper » Mon May 13, 2019 8:30 pm

Test User wrote:Not liking a decision you've previously made seems to be a great reason for changing it.


It's not about individuals changing their mind. It's about respecting a decision already made by votes that most (in my case) who wanted something different then I did.

I still say I was right to vote 'Remain' but we must leave the EU. If we don't then something even more important then EU membership will be lost.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Damo » Mon May 13, 2019 8:59 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:FAO Crosspool, cos he hasn't read it

Just remind me again the checks on Farage as leader of the Brexit party.

Just remind me again of the policies of Farage as leader of the Brexit party.

Just remind me again of the background of Farage, leader of the Brexit party.

You are a bright bloke Crosspool, which makes your refusal to see stuff like this even more weird, and the continuing desire to take me on stuff like this is even weirder.

The problem you have here, is that it wasnt Farage who shafted the electorate.
You were all warned what would happen if people were denied what they voted for.
Looks like it's coming home to roost
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lowbankclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 9:24 pm

Hipper wrote:Tell me why I should vote in this EU election?

It's for an election to a Parliament that we don't want to be a part of - we're leaving the EU.

Voting for a party that doesn't want us in the EU seems very silly - what will their purpose be in the European Parliament?

Why should this election be viewed as a referendum on Brexit. It isn't (or at least that's not how I see it) and interpreting it that way is hijacking the result for other purposes.

On the other hand I do wonder at the stupidity of the electorate who apparently use local elections as a comment on national issues, and the politicians and pundits who see it that way too.


You vote to send a message of support to the side your on.

In the locals many only had the main two, or the Lib Dem’s as a third.

This time there is a Brexit party if that’s your side and several others to show your support to if it’s not.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Mon May 13, 2019 9:30 pm

I do wish posters would stop giving the time of day to the resident remoaners on here. What is the point in telling them about democracy and fair play. They wouldn't know what it was if it hit them squarely in the face.
Let's leave Nigel and the Brexit Party to show Parliament that they have a real fight on their hands.
And as for this desparate scaremongering, it ain't going to work.
The big question for me is which group of voters will make the effort to go out Thursday week. The leavers or remainers. Who has the most motivation?
Maybe some of the remoaners are banking on many of the 2016 leave voters having died as this seems to be one of their justifications for having a second referendum. So laughable and patronising of them to suggest that leave voters have lost their intelligence.
Last edited by Elizabeth on Mon May 13, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby CombatClaret » Mon May 13, 2019 9:35 pm

Elizabeth wrote:I do wish posters would stop giving the time of day to the resident remoaners on here. What is the point in telling them about democracy and fair play. They wouldn't know what it was if it hit them squarely in the face.
Let's leave Nigel and the Brexit Party to show Parliament that they have a real fight on their hands.
And as for this desparate scaremongering, it ain't going to work.
The big question for me is which group of voters will make the effort to go out Thursday week. The leavers or remainers. Who has the most motivation?


How many votes do you get, one per username?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Mon May 13, 2019 9:38 pm

That is so funny. I bet you can do an interpretation of a sheep as well

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Devils_Advocate » Mon May 13, 2019 9:45 pm

CombatClaret wrote:How many votes do you get, one per username?

Yep but one of its persona voted leave and one voted remain so may as well just skip the vote and get straight down the park with the Special Brew
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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Mon May 13, 2019 9:47 pm

DA, you have been discredited on this board for some time

# 48
Bordeauxclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 pm

Elizabeth, are you able to provide the reasons you voted remain three years ago?

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Mon May 13, 2019 10:24 pm

That's the thing Bordeaux, nobody knows with any certainty how I voted three years ago, whether I'm Ringo or even whether I'm female.
Not my doing rather because that's how some posters want to play it.
Now I 'm very certain that some people are using more than one username, maybe even you for all I know. Your seemingly innocuous question is very similar to spiral' s style for example.
I'm not saying that's the case and will not answer your question simply because it has nothing to do with the EU election and has a funny ring to it. Why ask why I voted remain?
You never told me if you liked my little joke on the Question Time thread.

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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm

I’m every other poster apart from you and Ringo.
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