European Elections - Apols .....

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# 1
CrosspoolClarets
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby CrosspoolClarets » Tue May 14, 2019 4:50 pm

aggi wrote:Firstly, I don't really buy your premise that the media has been silent on this. There are countless stories, analysis pieces, interviews, dramatisations, etc on outlets such as the BBC or Guardian. There were establishment issues in the past, no-one is denying that, but if you want people to agree with your view you're going to have to provide some evidence.

Secondly, Asian grooming gangs are an issue, but whether they should be focused on to such an extent compared to other offences is debatable. The vast majority (90% or so) of sex offences against children are committed by white men. (There was a largely discredited Quilliam report suggesting that grooming gangs were vastly Asian based but that wasn't the best researched of pieces.) Judging by that we'd expect the coverage of Asian grooming gangs to be a relatively small part of the greater dialogue on sex crimes against children.

Just because Tommy tells people it's being ignored that doesn't mean it's true. Let's be honest, he was stood on the courtroom steps, where a grooming gang was being tried, complaining that authorities were ignoring the issue. The contradiction is pretty obvious there.


First of all a far better response than I got from Lancs.

I recall the facts about media coverage but to be honest I don’t have the time to dig them out, I’m taking 5 minutes out from writing a big report to have some fun on here.

The above link I put on my reply to Lancs shows there is still a widespread belief that things are being buried.

Your 90% claim, if I may make one important correction, it is 90% of convictions and many are brief offences. Many of the Asian gang trials are long standing abuse over years and years of vulnerable girls. I would respectfully suggest those stats are misleading.

# 2
Greenmile
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Greenmile » Tue May 14, 2019 5:03 pm

Once again, everything is always someone else’s fault. Farage and Yaxley-Lennon aren’t popular because of all those idiots who attend their rallies and agree with their views. Oh no, it’s all the lefty liberals fault (and the biased mainstream meeja, of course).

Edit - it will be my fault too, now, because I called their followers idiots, and the only way to cope with that is by doubling down on your idiotic views, of course.

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:07 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Hyper liberals don’t like being called out Lancs, but all the moral grandstanding doesn’t wash with me unless they can answer the point I raised, which noticeably you didn’t.

I’m not just singling out one or two parties either - today the wonderful Sarah Champion of Labour has complained that the Home Secretary has quietly shelved his review into grooming ethnicity. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/on-this_uk_5cd98afee4b0b0e70ab39f99

It’s a fact that the BBC have done minimal reporting on this issue (I remember research on it)
It’s a fact that Channel 4 have done even less than the BBC.
It’s a fact that politicians have avoided publicity on this too.
It’s a fact that liberals avoid it like the plague - stats as to how many times it trends on Twitter demonstrate this

I’m not professing to be morally superior. But I sure as hell ain’t admitting to be worse because that is the common accusation thrown at anyone on here who isn’t socially far left. It’s the biggest load of nonsense around, and there are some big rivals for that award.

I repeat - if we had a culture where things could be discussed and investigated equally, irrelevant of race, gender, sexuality or wealth, the likes of Tommy Robinson (or Farage, though he is not as bad) would have no oxygen to operate, and the country would be a far better place.


I didn't answer the point because you didn't make one.

You just repeated far right crap and I responded to your crap by telling you are talking crap.

You. are. talking. crap.

You are repeating far right fantasies and I suppose it was only a matter of time till you did, but its still disappointing.

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 5:09 pm

I am pleased the level of debate has gone up a notch since the ridiculous assertion last night from one poster who weirdly asserted that all remain voters only had one reason to vote that way. That was given to me by the said poster who voted to remain because of wanting to remain. Yeh, I'm thinking I must have got that wrong but don't think I have. I will retract if I am wrong.
It's good to see that poster blowing kisses to another poster who quite correctly acknowledged that remain voters had different reasons for the way they voted. A lot happier than the hissy fit accusing leave supporting posters as having numerous posting accounts .
Cracks appearing? Maybe . Slowly but surely it is dawning that Elizabeth and Ringo are different posters. That divisive tactic to stifle debate is becoming defunct. One down .......

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Like I said, you are trying too hard.

I'm not insecure enough to have more than one account, and I also don't give two ***** if I'm banned from this sewer of a website either.

So carry on!

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 5:15 pm

It's not worth losing it like that. If you give it you have to take it.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Whose losing it?

You are trying too hard, and this website is a sewer because it lets racists post without banning them.

Just stating a fact.
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taio
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby taio » Tue May 14, 2019 5:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Like I said, you are trying too hard.

I'm not insecure enough to have more than one account, and I also don't give two ***** if I'm banned from this sewer of a website either.

So carry on!


If you ever create another account perhaps your username can be implodinglancaster after that collapse :D
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Lancasterclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:26 pm

taio wrote:If you ever create another account perhaps your username can be implodinglancaster after that collapse :D


What collapse?

Pointing out the obvious?

Okay

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 5:29 pm

This whole mess is down to politicians voting to give the public a vote. They are a disgrace and should hang their heads in shame. So many inequalities in this country , all forgotten while these people play party politics and only think of career progression.
We must not fall out because they are not worth it. MPs are meant to represent their constituents . In Burnley we have an MP who had 66% of her constituents vote Leave and couldn't even vote against a 2nd referendum.

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taio
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby taio » Tue May 14, 2019 5:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:What collapse?

Pointing out the obvious?

Okay


When you start calling this website a "sewer", despite being a prolific poster particularly on political threads that divide opinion, it's a sign of collapse or losing the plot.

Funny though.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:32 pm

Even though you are not who you say you are, that is an excellent point.

The only thing I'll point out is that Mrs Cooper has seen the government impact studies of the economic effects of Brexit, and that as part of our parliamentary system, is fully well within her rights to do what is best for Burnley.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:34 pm

taio wrote:When you start calling this website a "sewer", despite being a prolific poster particularly on political threads that divide opinion, it's a sign of collapse or losing the plot.

Funny though.


Its almost like you haven't noticed that I mentioned it was because of the racist posts.

Nothing funny about that at all.

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 5:40 pm

I would say that Mrs Cooper is not part of the government and should be making a better effort to help Burnley have a labour MP at the next election. She is blowing that with her stance on the most important issue to hit this country in decades.
Even if she is not standing, as rumour had it, she should be think further ahead.

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taio
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby taio » Tue May 14, 2019 5:42 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Its almost like you haven't noticed that I mentioned it was because of the racist posts.

Nothing funny about that at all.


I did notice but I haven't read back so can't comment.

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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 5:47 pm

Just in case there are other readers who haven't read back let me make the assurance that while I hit a raw nerve to cause the implosion I have at no time made any or would make any racist comment. I think this is a very poor excuse and it is such explanations for behaviour that is making it very uncomfortable for many decent citizens in this country.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby martin_p » Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Elizabeth wrote:I am pleased the level of debate has gone up a notch since the ridiculous assertion last night from one poster who weirdly asserted that all remain voters only had one reason to vote that way. That was given to me by the said poster who voted to remain because of wanting to remain. Yeh, I'm thinking I must have got that wrong but don't think I have. I will retract if I am wrong.
It's good to see that poster blowing kisses to another poster who quite correctly acknowledged that remain voters had different reasons for the way they voted. A lot happier than the hissy fit accusing leave supporting posters as having numerous posting accounts .
Cracks appearing? Maybe . Slowly but surely it is dawning that Elizabeth and Ringo are different posters. That divisive tactic to stifle debate is becoming defunct. One down .......


Don’t kid yourself Wrongo.

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martin_p
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby martin_p » Tue May 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Just in case there are other readers who haven't read back let me make the assurance that while I hit a raw nerve to cause the implosion I have at no time made any or would make any racist comment. I think this is a very poor excuse and it is such explanations for behaviour that is making it very uncomfortable for many decent citizens in this country.


Well not while in this ‘persona’ anyway.

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Lancasterclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 6:08 pm

Elizabeth wrote:Just in case there are other readers who haven't read back let me make the assurance that while I hit a raw nerve to cause the implosion I have at no time made any or would make any racist comment. I think this is a very poor excuse and it is such explanations for behaviour that is making it very uncomfortable for many decent citizens in this country.


No raw nerve hit at all.

If you think this forum doesn't have a racist problem, then you need to maybe read some of the more "interesting" posts from certain posters.

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Hipper
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Hipper » Tue May 14, 2019 6:16 pm

Test User wrote:Again, if we decide we want something that turns out to be undeliverable then it seem to me to be a perfectly good reason for us to change our mind.

And why does the electorate changing their mind have to be treated differently to an individual changing their mind when applying logic? You asserted that it is without explaining how and why.


I did!

Here's an interesting incident where an experienced seaman did not change his mind:

https://warisboring.com/the-sinking-of- ... vy-astray/

That's a good book too if anyone is interested in naval history.
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Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm

I think my job is done today

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Bordeauxclaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 6:24 pm

Off to the pub?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Hipper wrote:I did!

Here's an interesting incident where an experienced seaman did not change his mind:

https://warisboring.com/the-sinking-of- ... vy-astray/

That's a good book too if anyone is interested in naval history.


Its an excellent Brexit metaphor that is for sure

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aggi
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby aggi » Tue May 14, 2019 6:31 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:First of all a far better response than I got from Lancs.

I recall the facts about media coverage but to be honest I don’t have the time to dig them out, I’m taking 5 minutes out from writing a big report to have some fun on here.

The above link I put on my reply to Lancs shows there is still a widespread belief that things are being buried.

Your 90% claim, if I may make one important correction, it is 90% of convictions and many are brief offences. Many of the Asian gang trials are long standing abuse over years and years of vulnerable girls. I would respectfully suggest those stats are misleading.


I'm not really sure how your link supports your original statement. Are you suggesting that Sajid Javid is part of the liberal left? I think that's probably quite the surprise for most people.

I see your point re: convictions but sadly there are plenty of white grooming gangs out there as well (one could argue that Tommy Robinson has caused them to be more ignored in the press witht he focus on Asian grooming gangs). On top of that are all the instances of systemic abuse that have come to light involving individuals such as football coaches, the church, celebrities, etc. that had been swept under the carpet.

The stats may or may not be misleading (the stats that a lot of people reference when saying that the majority of grooming gangs are Asian certainly are misleading) but the solution to that is better stats and an evidence-based approach. Not a witch-hunt led by someone who cares more about getting Youtube likes than convictions of actual grooming gangs.

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Hipper
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Hipper » Tue May 14, 2019 6:33 pm

I've just received some EU election leaflets.

The Conservatives makes some sense - they want to get a Brexit deal and these lections are not wanted.

The Green Party and Liberals just blatantly say they want to remain in the EU despite the referendum result (the SNP are of course the same in that regard).

Farage's mob and a host of others are demanding Brexit and accuse the Conservatives of failing to deliver it.

The Labour leaflet reads more like it's for a General Election

https://electionleaflets.org/leaflets/

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evensteadiereddie
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby evensteadiereddie » Tue May 14, 2019 6:39 pm

Can't wait until Friday......"Elizabeth" is usually leathered by lunchtime.... :lol:

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dsr
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby dsr » Tue May 14, 2019 8:22 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm liking that there appears to be "Daily Drenchings" of various fascists in milk based products.

There is a definite irony in trying to stop fascism by using violence to prevent ideas you don't like from getting a hearing.

It reminds me of the Anti-Nazi League rally whose ambition was to march on the BNP headquarters and burn all their books.
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 8:26 pm

dsr wrote:There is a definite irony in trying to stop fascism by using violence to prevent ideas you don't like from getting a hearing.

It reminds me of the Anti-Nazi League rally whose ambition was to march on the BNP headquarters and burn all their books.


far right groups have killed an MP

the remain/anti-racist cause soak their opponents in milkshakes.

I'm sure you are trying to make a serious point, but it kinda isn't the same at all.

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dsr
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby dsr » Tue May 14, 2019 8:32 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:far right groups have killed an MP

the remain/anti-racist cause soak their opponents in milkshakes.

I'm sure you are trying to make a serious point, but it kinda isn't the same at all.

Surely the phrase "definite irony" would have told you that I wasn't equating it to murder. I have never used the term "irony" to define murder, and I'm surprised that you would see the word "irony" and think that I could be using it do equate to murder.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby martin_p » Tue May 14, 2019 8:34 pm

dsr wrote:Surely the phrase "definite irony" would have told you that I wasn't equating it to murder. I have never used the term "irony" to define murder, and I'm surprised that you would see the word "irony" and think that I could be using it do equate to murder.


No, but you’re equating a soaking with milkshake with violence.
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AndyClaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby AndyClaret » Tue May 14, 2019 8:50 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:far right groups have killed an MP

the remain/anti-racist cause soak their opponents in milkshakes.

I'm sure you are trying to make a serious point, but it kinda isn't the same at all.


Which far right groups ?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 8:53 pm

He was in a far right group

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AndyClaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby AndyClaret » Tue May 14, 2019 8:54 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He was in a far right group


you said groups, which groups ?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby dsr » Tue May 14, 2019 8:59 pm

martin_p wrote:No, but you’re equating a soaking with milkshake with violence.

Yes I am. If you make a threat of violence against someone, then it is a violent act even if it turns out to be only a milkshake. As Lancaster has pointed out, a public speaker can't always assume that a person approaching with aggressive intent, is mostly harmless.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby martin_p » Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm

dsr wrote:Yes I am. If you make a threat of violence against someone, then it is a violent act even if it turns out to be only a milkshake. As Lancaster has pointed out, a public speaker can't always assume that a person approaching with aggressive intent, is mostly harmless.


Approaching someone armed with a milkshake is a potentially violent act?

You’ve been watching too much Monty Python!

https://youtu.be/4JgbOkLdRaE
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Loyalclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 9:55 pm

How come Tommy Robinson is not down on the ballot paper in his real name? This may have been covered or may happen regularly?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby nil_desperandum » Tue May 14, 2019 11:50 pm

Elizabeth wrote:. MPs are meant to represent their constituents . In Burnley we have an MP who had 66% of her constituents vote Leave and couldn't even vote against a 2nd referendum.

A perfectly reasonable position for Cooper to take. She didn't vote for or against, and that is correct, since she doesn't know how things will pan out.
Let's say that in due course MPs get the option of either a People's Vote or No brexit, surely you'd want her to represent the 66% by supporting the 2nd referendum option. I think she'd have to tbh. She's on record as saying that she would never back a 2nd Referendum, but that simply demonstrates a lack of political awareness and judgement.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby HatfieldClaret » Wed May 15, 2019 12:04 am

Loyalclaret wrote:How come Tommy Robinson is not down on the ballot paper in his real name? This may have been covered or may happen regularly?


One has to register as a candidate in their real name, i think

Therefore the returning officer will have to say " Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, known as Tommy Robinson, 1 vote."

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Wed May 15, 2019 1:21 am

If anything is killing democracy its this 'lesser of two evils' logic

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Damo » Wed May 15, 2019 2:40 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:far right groups have killed an MP

the remain/anti-racist cause soak their opponents in milkshakes.

I'm sure you are trying to make a serious point, but it kinda isn't the same at all.

I'm quite sure most remainers and anti-racist will be mortified to be compared with the far right.
Why not say extremist remainers, or the far left are not quite as violent as the far right and leave the rational remainers out of it?

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Loyalclaret » Wed May 15, 2019 7:37 am

HatfieldClaret wrote:One has to register as a candidate in their real name, i think

Therefore the returning officer will have to say " Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, known as Tommy Robinson, 1 vote."

Thank you

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Hipper » Wed May 15, 2019 7:44 am

Elizabeth wrote:This whole mess is down to politicians voting to give the public a vote. They are a disgrace and should hang their heads in shame. So many inequalities in this country , all forgotten while these people play party politics and only think of career progression.
We must not fall out because they are not worth it. MPs are meant to represent their constituents . In Burnley we have an MP who had 66% of her constituents vote Leave and couldn't even vote against a 2nd referendum.


Whilst it has turned into a mess I reckon it was a necessary action.

The leave/remain split, which had not only affected political parties but the whole country, had been building up for many years. The increase in migration since the EU admitted Poland etc. pushed things to a head.

The disgrace to our system - politicians and media in particular - was the debate that ensued before the vote. After that it is the refusal of these same groups to accept the result and knuckle down and sort it out.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed May 15, 2019 7:52 am

AndyClaret wrote:you said groups, which groups ?


Same one you are in

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Lancasterclaret » Wed May 15, 2019 7:55 am

dsr wrote:Surely the phrase "definite irony" would have told you that I wasn't equating it to murder. I have never used the term "irony" to define murder, and I'm surprised that you would see the word "irony" and think that I could be using it do equate to murder.


You are trying to pretend that its violence, when its someone being attacked with a milk based product.

You'd probably have a point if they were lactose intolerant though.

And I think its worth mentioning again that political violence from your side of the vote killed an MP, as opposed to soaking two wannabee MEPs in milkshake.

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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:You are trying to pretend that its violence, when its someone being attacked with a milk based product.

You'd probably have a point if they were lactose intolerant though.

And I think its worth mentioning again that political violence from your side of the vote killed an MP, as opposed to soaking two wannabee MEPs in milkshake.

By your logic Lancaster, if a Burnley season ticket holder killed someone tonight. It would be Burnley fans that had killed.

Or had the MPs killer worked with far right groups to kill her or been instructed to by them?

I'm not certain with details but I thought he was a lone oddball that killed her?

# 46
aggi
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby aggi » Wed May 15, 2019 9:39 am

HatfieldClaret wrote:One has to register as a candidate in their real name, i think

Therefore the returning officer will have to say " Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, known as Tommy Robinson, 1 vote."


Same reason that he's in court as Yaxley-Lennon, he hasn't legally changed his name (unlike Elton John for instance).

# 47
Guich
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Guich » Wed May 15, 2019 12:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Course, the No 1 pick for the Brexit Party in the North West thinks the Warrington IRA bombing was justified, so that might be a problem (if it isn't, it bloody should be)


Distasteful views along those lines didn't seem to harm JC's performance in the last election.

These are weird times Lancs, and it's surprising, and worrying, what people are prepared to overlook to make a protest.

# 48
RingoMcCartney
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby RingoMcCartney » Wed May 15, 2019 1:07 pm

I said last year that if Brexit is not delivered, people's trust in MPs and democracy will be shattered and they will either never vote again or vote for new parties that will promise to deliver what they want. "What's the point in voting , it doesn't change anything" I said it will be "permanent" and "transgenerational"

Anne widdecombe made a speech in a working mens club in a former mining village in south Yorkshire on Monday.

She received a standing ovation and LBC said she "was cheered to the rafters in this Leave voting stronghold"

This is Anne Widdecombe who served under John Major and the , despised by mining countries , Margaret Thatcher. Being " cheered to the rafters by former miners"

The Establishment, the political class, the mainstream media and the dark shadowy forces that, so far, have conspires to thwart the largest single expression of democracy this country has ever witnessed. Only have themselves to blame.

They will reap what they have sown.

Mystic McCartney predicted this.






PS. There's only ONE Ringo McCartney.








I DON'T DO TRIBUTE ACTS

# 49
Elizabeth
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby Elizabeth » Wed May 15, 2019 1:19 pm

You are the man Ringo , I'll keep an eye on the board but in case you missed it, one of the resident remoaners had a hissy fit breakdown yesterday so be gentle
Yeh , same old, the Brexit Party is racist rubbish.

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AndyClaret
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Re: European Elections - Apols .....

Postby AndyClaret » Wed May 15, 2019 1:46 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Same one you are in


Name them.
This user liked this post: RingoMcCartney


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