How can we improve the defence next year?

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Quickenthetempo
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How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 14, 2019 2:23 pm

There's no doubt the lads at the back work their socks off, but we have conceded 68 goals this year and had a few goal line clearances to save us. Both keepers have made lots of saves and defenders get in the way of lots of shots.

Quite clearly we have a problem letting the opposition in on our goal.

Dyche prefers 442 which has seen us score more goals this season but it doesn't let us keep much of the ball.
Three of the midfield that have started recently can only be described as defensive based so we have 8 players working to protect our goal over attack.

So why are we so easy to score against?

Maybe go 451 and upgrade the central midfield significantly to be able to keep the ball better?

Upgrade the centre forward(s) to one who holds the ball up a lot more, despite goals scored being good enough?

Coach the CHs to have one man marking the CF tightly and the other covering? Too many goals scored where the CF has peeled off too easily.

Claret
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Claret » Tue May 14, 2019 2:26 pm

Personally, I'd let the manager do it
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FactualFrank
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by FactualFrank » Tue May 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Improving the defence could be done by improving the midfield.
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randomclaret2
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:31 pm

We invite pressure by not being able to keep the ball for long enough when we do have possession.
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Quickenthetempo
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 14, 2019 2:33 pm

Claret wrote:Personally, I'd let the manager do it
and there's me thinking we could do it after a vote on here.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by ClaretTony » Tue May 14, 2019 2:36 pm

We were best defensively last season playing with Defour and Hendrick in that advanced midfield role. This season we went back to 4-4-2 and scored more goals. You take your pick I suppose but the defence isn’t getting the protection it’s had in previous seasons.
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claretonthecoast1882
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue May 14, 2019 2:42 pm

Only 1 team from 10th down conceded less than 50, it is hardly like we are conceding loads and everyone else doesn't.

Bottom half teams will always concede in this division with the strength of the top sides.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Down_Rover » Tue May 14, 2019 2:54 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Improving the defence could be done by improving the midfield.
Agreed. We were so stingy in defence last year because Cork and Defour were in top form.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Herts Clarets » Tue May 14, 2019 2:55 pm

As already mentioned, we need an upgrade in midfield. Going forwards we are far too pedestrian in shifting the ball around and thus allow the opposition to get back into position. Defensively, we lack the physicality and pace to break up play and protect the defence.

We have been in desperate need of upgrading and given that we are unlikely to see much of Defour for yet another season, this need is become more pressing for me.
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Right_winger » Tue May 14, 2019 3:01 pm

We need better quality players and a more expansive system where we actually hold onto the ball .

Under Dyche the emphasis is all about getting back into and holding shape, which naturally draws teams onto our 18 yard box without challenges. We need that battle 20 yards further up the pitch but as we don’t have the quality and athletic capabilities we need to be facing the ball.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Caballo » Tue May 14, 2019 3:25 pm

Don't play Hart for any of the games.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm

the only area we need to address is the midfield unless we lose Tarks

theroyaldyche
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by theroyaldyche » Tue May 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Dont play hart for 10+ games

Jakubs Tash
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Jakubs Tash » Tue May 14, 2019 3:54 pm

As already mentioned by some above, getting better players both up front and in midfield will help to retain the ball much better and mean the defence isn't under pressure quite as much.

But we need to be realistic and accept that we will still be blocking plenty of shots/crosses against the top 6 teams regardless of who we bring in, such is the gulf....

Blackrod
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Blackrod » Tue May 14, 2019 4:10 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:We invite pressure by not being able to keep the ball for long enough when we do have possession.
This is it. The defence is very good and we don’t need to improve it ( well maybe RB). Midfield is where we have to improve and with real quality in my opinion.

tim_noone
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by tim_noone » Tue May 14, 2019 4:40 pm

Get Hart back in the Nets... Getting fed up of Toms posturing now and Poor communication with the defence..7 goals conceded in the last 3 games very poor to say the Least.

Tricky Trevor
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Tue May 14, 2019 4:52 pm

Claret wrote:Personally, I'd let the manager do it
And close down a football forum for asking a football related question.

Spijed
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Spijed » Tue May 14, 2019 4:55 pm

As has been said, it's clear that there was a problem with Joe Hart in goal. If Heaton had played from the start of the season we would have let in far fewer goals and gained more points in the process. There isn't too much wrong with the way we defend when the defenders are confident with the goalkeeper behind them.

It's as simple as that.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by tim_noone » Tue May 14, 2019 5:00 pm

I think playing Heaton from the start of the season with a Broken collar Bone would have led us to concede Far more goals....tbh
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FactualFrank
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by FactualFrank » Tue May 14, 2019 5:01 pm

tim_noone wrote:I think playing Heaton from the start of the season with a Broken collar Bone would have led us to concede Far more goals....tbh
Your first attempt failed. Trying again 3 posts later isn't advisable.
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by tim_noone » Tue May 14, 2019 5:03 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Your first attempt failed. Trying again 3 posts later isn't advisable.
:lol:

Quickenthetempo
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 14, 2019 5:05 pm

Spijed wrote:As has been said, it's clear that there was a problem with Joe Hart in goal. If Heaton had played from the start of the season we would have let in far fewer goals and gained more points in the process. There isn't too much wrong with the way we defend when the defenders are confident with the goalkeeper behind them.

It's as simple as that.
Tom has played alright but he hasn't reached the heights Pope did last year for us.
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beddie
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by beddie » Tue May 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Two pacey, strong, athletic midfielders would do the trick, the question is can we find them and more importantly can we afford them?
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue May 14, 2019 5:21 pm

I'd still prefer Pope in goal, hes much better at commanding his box, that takes a lot of pressure off the defence.
The midfield needs more bite, as stated .
I also think we need to play a lot more pro actively. We conceded a lot of goals early doors, similar to Arsenals first, playing the ball around the half way line and giving it away. If we are going to give it away, then let's lose it around their penalty area, at least it gives you time to reorganise. We could even take a tip fro Citeh, and foul when we lose the ball. It gives even more time to reorganise.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by jrgbfc » Tue May 14, 2019 5:24 pm

Give Ben Gibson a go instead of Ben Mee. From what I've seen of him he is a far better player, but pigs will fly before Dyche drops Ben Mee.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by AlargeClaret » Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm

Midfield the issue surely , though a quality right back wouldn’t go amiss . We desperately need a creative midfielder ( like Defour when fit)

boatshed bill
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 14, 2019 6:04 pm

5 in midfield would help. the main issue in my opinion is ball retention, we bring a lot of pressure on ourselves.

ksrclaret
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by ksrclaret » Tue May 14, 2019 6:28 pm

Agree that 5 across midfield would help us keep possession better, but also then improve us defensively, as a result.

We'd need much more effective midfielders to make it work, though. We'd need midfielders who can carry the ball, because we'd end up with a slow tempo passing game followed by a direct ball to the one forward.

Which ever way you look at us for next season, it always points back to the midfield. Hope Dyche sees it that way too.

Bop
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Bop » Tue May 14, 2019 7:06 pm

Concede less goals and create more assists.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by dougcollins » Tue May 14, 2019 7:29 pm

We're an established PL club, there will be players who want to come here, some of whom will be the ones we need.

Simple.

COBBLE
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by COBBLE » Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 pm

Was going to suggest Barnfield build a wall but it might be too late by the time its finished.
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by wilks_bfc » Tue May 14, 2019 8:18 pm

41 of those 68 were conceded in the first 19 games
27 in the last 19 games

I think we sorted the issue after game 19

Quickenthetempo
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue May 14, 2019 8:25 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:41 of those 68 were conceded in the first 19 games
27 in the last 19 games

I think we sorted the issue after game 19
Even 1.5 goals per game for the last 19 games is too many for a defensive based side.

Exciting, attack based sides conceded less.
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SalisburyClaret
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by SalisburyClaret » Tue May 14, 2019 8:38 pm

I’d like to see us with Mee, Tarky and Gibson at the back supported by 2 wingbacks - which would mean we’d need 2 Wingbacks...

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Wed May 15, 2019 7:13 am

whoever said improving the midfield is bang on the money.

Can’t keep possession means the defence is overworked all game pretty much. The lads are bound to get tired, hence conceding goals late on in games

Chester Perry
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 15, 2019 7:51 am

The game is evolving and as usual money has a lot to do with the sheer skill, pace, intelligence and physical prowess of teams - it is getting much harder - https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... nd-possess" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by houseboy » Wed May 15, 2019 3:56 pm

Spijed wrote:As has been said, it's clear that there was a problem with Joe Hart in goal. If Heaton had played from the start of the season we would have let in far fewer goals and gained more points in the process. There isn't too much wrong with the way we defend when the defenders are confident with the goalkeeper behind them.

It's as simple as that.
I think the problem with Hart in goal wasn't with him at all. We have a decent defence, we all know that. We also know that, for those who are unbiased, Hart played very well in a lot of his games. I still believe that the defensive problems (which were overwhelmingly in the first half of the season and the reason why we conceded so many overall) were political. After the early games (when he was absolutely needed due to injuries to Heaton and Pope) he was allowed to continue even though fans (and, more importantly, possibly players) thought Heaton should be back in the team. I said at the time that I wondered if Heaton was causing problems himself and that players were, conciously or otherwise, listening to him.

Of course this is all conjecture but I still find it odd that the team suddenly clicked like switching a light on when it's normal first choice goalie came back. Let's get this in perspective, regardless of what the anti-Hart group on here believe, Hart was and to a certain extent still is a top class goalkeeper, but the difference in the team when Heaton came back was as though I had been in goal for the previous games (and I am am definitely NOT a goalkeeper). I believe strongly that there were several problems in the first half of the season (not least players being 'dropped' for the Euros) and that Hart was used as some kind of scapegoat for it all.

I believe genuinely that, as of today, Heaton is better than Hart and I'm glad he's back in the team, but Hart has come in for so much criticism and much of it is/was from those who thought he was a bad signing in the first place and couldn't get it through their heads that we desperately needed him at the time we signed him. They are the ones who just want to be heard shouting from the rooftops 'I TOLD YOU SO WHEN WE SIGNED HIM'.

He did a decent job at a time when we needed someone. Maybe he has no future at the club now. Maybe he is past his best. It would be just nice if the fans said to him when he goes 'thanks Joe, all the best and thanks for stepping in'.
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Chester Perry
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Chester Perry » Wed May 15, 2019 4:01 pm

Houseboy - what do you make of this - for the record I am not being judgemental either way

https://statsbomb.com/2019/02/the-great ... er-switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Rowls » Wed May 15, 2019 4:05 pm

Start with Heaton in goal.

As others have said - improve the midfield.

We still top the charts for blocks etc.

Claret
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Claret » Wed May 15, 2019 9:51 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:And close down a football forum for asking a football related question.
Trev, it was just a joke, mate.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Wed May 15, 2019 10:15 pm

Claret wrote:Trev, it was just a joke, mate.
Fair enough. I must have been tired and it went over me head.
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Spike
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Spike » Wed May 15, 2019 10:34 pm

The main thing that would help the defence is the rest of the team holding onto the ball more and therefore not letting the opposition have it

Our widemen need to stop being injured and play their part

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Thu May 16, 2019 7:48 am

31 of the 68 were conceded against the big6, 12 matches. therefore we only conceded 37 in the other 26. Not a bad return.
All the answers have already been given and I’d be sure have been identified by the staff concerned.

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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by ZizkovClaret » Thu May 16, 2019 8:00 am

I kind of like the idea of this:

----------Heaton----------

---Cahill--Tarks--Mee---

-------Westwood---------

Lowton-------------Taylor

houseboy
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by houseboy » Thu May 16, 2019 9:34 am

Chester Perry wrote:Houseboy - what do you make of this - for the record I am not being judgemental either way

https://statsbomb.com/2019/02/the-great ... er-switch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry bud, I'm not into stats as proof of anything as they can be made to prove almost anything if they are presented in the right way. However I followed your link (something I rarely do but in this case I was interested) but I'm afraid I got bored 2 pages in (that's not your fault - I find reading stats as interesting as watching paint dry - I used to work with them and still do to an extent and it bores the pants off me). Maybe when I've got more time I'll have another look. It does, to a degree, hold up what I was saying, at least in the intro, because it admits that it is difficult to judge the interaction between defenders and goalkeepers. In the end though I have never said Hart was as good as Heaton, in fact in my post I did say the exact opposite, that I much prefer Heaton to Hart. My point has always been not that Hart is better, he isn't, but that he doesn't deserve most of the awful criticism he gets on here, especially when he was brought in as an emergency.

Appreciate your efforts though bud.

1968claret
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by 1968claret » Thu May 16, 2019 7:22 pm

Get trump to build a wall across the 6 yard box?

IanMcL
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by IanMcL » Thu May 16, 2019 8:48 pm

Override the goal line technology and VAR lines!

superdimitri
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by superdimitri » Fri May 17, 2019 7:22 am

We have no pace which means we have no room for errors. As a result we sit back too much.

When we had Keane it wasn't so bad as there was always someone to chase back.

Gibson is slow like Tarkowski and Mee. Long is probably our fastest centre back and may even be our fastest defender. Top that off by having no players who excel with pace in any position and we will never move on from the low block.

SGr
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Re: How can we improve the defence next year?

Post by SGr » Fri May 17, 2019 10:35 am

Replacing Jack Cork.

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