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Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:35 am
by Test User
I'm often criticised for being argumentative so i decided to post this topic where i'm sure we'll all agree. :lol:

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
The opinion that a rape victim should be forced to carry and give birth to her rapists baby is an extremist opinion.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:44 am
by JarrowClaret
Wow what a statement, look as a parent and one that has gone through the pain and agony of a miscarriage (well the Male side at least) I am fundamentally against the idea and practice of abortion. Even me though has to stick my hand up and say there are extreme circumstances that may require an abortion to happen this is one such occasion. Extremist or not I don’t care I think it is just a plain wrong statement.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:50 am
by thatdberight
Test User wrote:I'm often criticised for being argumentative so i decided to post this topic where i'm sure we'll all agree. :lol:

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
The opinion that a rape victim should be forced to carry and give birth to her rapists baby is an extremist opinion.
I agree with you that it's an extreme opinion both in the literal and pejorative use of the term.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:51 am
by Lancasterclaret
I have my own personal view on abortion but what I would never do is use my personal view on it to legislate or force someone else to make a different choice.

Alabama have gone full DUP here, and its not good.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:59 am
by Test User
Lancasterclaret wrote:I have my own personal view on abortion but what I would never do is use my personal view on it to legislate or force someone else to make a different choice.

Alabama have gone full DUP here, and its not good.
The intent of these laws that these Republican states are churning out isn't to have them enacted immediately, because they know the Roe v Wade ruling means these extreme abortion restrictions are unconstitutional. The goal is to have them sued to prevent these laws from being enacted, and once it's in the court system it will inevitably end up at the Supreme Court, where they will have another chance at overturning Roe v Wade. And this is why conservatives over there were so adamant that Kavanaugh, despite his lies to them and his history of disrespect for women, must be seated to the court. Because they believe he's an ally in this fight.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:02 am
by Damo
Can see this thread lasting

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:15 am
by claptrappers_union
JarrowClaret wrote:Wow what a statement, look as a parent and one that has gone through the pain and agony of a miscarriage (well the Male side at least) I am fundamentally against the idea and practice of abortion. Even me though has to stick my hand up and say there are extreme circumstances that may require an abortion to happen this is one such occasion. Extremist or not I don’t care I think it is just a plain wrong statement.
Gone through similar to you, however I believe individuals know they're own limitations, feelings and bodies. If someone feel they can't bring in a new life responsibly or it could cause emotional pain - they have every right to choose. Personally, I'd rather see women have abortions legally, safely with professional aftercare rather than using coat-hangers or chucking themselves down stairs.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:18 am
by Dyched
A woman as the inalienable right to do whatever she likes with her body.

Everybody else can go suck on a grenade

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:20 am
by aggi
This was always the end-game for a lot of people in getting Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

You do have to look at the people making the decisions and think that maybe this isn't the group that is going to be impacted most by these new laws.
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Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 11:32 am
by Lancasterclaret
Hasn't got my favourite Alabama politician on it sadly.

This utter numpty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFYRkzznsc0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:47 pm
by claret59
Dyched states: 'A woman as the inalienable right to do whatever she likes with her body.'

The problem here are that there are two bodies involved and two innocent victims.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:07 pm
by NottsClaret
A man's responsible for every unwanted pregnancy in the world. Can't wait for an entirely female political body to start passing legislation on what men are allowed to do with their bodies, with 99 year jail terms to enforce their decisions.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:37 pm
by Squarepusher
If blokes could get pregnant, you'd be able to get an abortion at Tesco.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:50 pm
by Lord Beamish
If a pregnancy is God’s Will, then so is impotence. Ban Viagra!

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:19 pm
by houseboy
Why would anyone, male or female, tell someone else, male or female, what they can and cannot do with their own bodies? Abusing oneself with alchohol or cigarettes is legal. Eating unhealthily and becoming morbidly obese is not against the law. The argument against abortion is largely a religious thing, as is the idea of banning birth control, done to make sure there are plenty of births in that particular religion. Anti-abortion laws (and anti-birth control) pre-date anything to do with actually caring about life (which is a relatively modern idea), so we need to stop fooling ourselves that it is about the unborn child.

As far as the original question is concerned it can only be disgusting in the extreme to force a woman to give birth as a result of rape. The woman didn't ask to be raped and didn't plan the pregnancy and should have the right to an abortion with no questions asked. In the first few weeks of pregnancy there is no 'child' anyway, only the basic concept of a child, in that time period there isn't even a body to speak of. Why is this even being discussed at any time or in any place? Only religious lunatics would pass a law banning abortion after rape (or even at any time to be honest).

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:30 pm
by South West Claret.
Of course not, that's the type of bone headed narrow minded nonsense that only the Yanks could think of.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:55 pm
by Test User
South West Claret. wrote:Of course not, that's the type of bone headed narrow minded nonsense that only the Yanks could think of.
Well, not just the yanks, but i get your point. There the only ones i know of who are regressing this far.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:08 pm
by Corky
claret59 wrote:Dyched states: 'A woman as the inalienable right to do whatever she likes with her body.'

The problem here are that there are two bodies involved and two innocent victims.
And that my friend is where the whole sorry debate begins. Who takes precedence?

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 pm
by South West Claret.
Corky wrote:And that my friend is where the whole sorry debate begins. Who takes precedence?
The women as she is usually in the right and can make decisions, the baby can't make decisions for obvious reasons and rapist who is the violator will be punished and probably jailed... next question? ;)

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:22 pm
by AlargeClaret
Anyone denying a woman an abortion after rape truly deserves to burn in hell for all eternity .

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:24 pm
by AlargeClaret
Squarepusher wrote:If blokes could get pregnant, you'd be able to get an abortion at Tesco.
I think you’ll find Tesco pharmacies happily and legally dispensing the morning after pill which aborts the foetus ( well let’s be honest more like a “ jizz flush “ but ...

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:32 pm
by Test User
AlargeClaret wrote:I think you’ll find Tesco pharmacies happily and legally dispensing the morning after pill which aborts the foetus ( well let’s be honest more like a “ jizz flush “ but ...
I believe it prevents fertilisation of the egg, so there's no foetus. But you can bet those who think women should be forced to bear a child after they've been forced to have sex also oppose contraceptives like the morning after pill.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:40 pm
by ClaretAndJew
Me and an ex made the decision to abort in 2011. We were in our early 20s and she was in university.

She told me about the pregnancy and how it wasn't the ideal time. I respected her decision and was with her at the hospital during the procedure and the subsequent abortion as it happened.

We donated the fetus for research purposes so hopefully did our bit to help science or someone.

Abortions should be no questions asked in my opinion.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:02 pm
by FCBurnley
Abortion is a subject that will always cause controversy. I do not believe in abortion on demand, neither do I agree with no abortion at all. There appears to be 3 groups of pregnancies that may or may not require abortions. 1/Pregnancies where the woman is pregnant against her will. Eg Rape or Incest. In this case I believe the woman should have the right to abort if that is her choice. 2/ Pregnancies where life threatening situations to the Mother or Baby occur. I believe these should be decided by Doctor and Mother/Father to be with abortion allowed if necessary. 3/ Regular healthy pregnancies. I believe no abortion should be allowed in this case. This law should be supported by Government provided free contraception. When I was of baby making age the only contraceptives were condoms the thickness of inner tubes !! Today the woman has many contraceptive options. Sure accidents will happen but to be honest there is no need in todays world for unwanted pregnancies.No doubt these comments will not please the pro or anti lobbies but they are my best shot at fairness to all.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:21 pm
by Test User
FCBurnley wrote:Abortion is a subject that will always cause controversy. I do not believe in abortion on demand, neither do I agree with no abortion at all. There appears to be 3 groups of pregnancies that may or may not require abortions. 1/Pregnancies where the woman is pregnant against her will. Eg Rape or Incest. In this case I believe the woman should have the right to abort if that is her choice. 2/ Pregnancies where life threatening situations to the Mother or Baby occur. I believe these should be decided by Doctor and Mother/Father to be with abortion allowed if necessary. 3/ Regular healthy pregnancies. I believe no abortion should be allowed in this case. This law should be supported by Government provided free contraception. When I was of baby making age the only contraceptives were condoms the thickness of inner tubes !! Today the woman has many contraceptive options. Sure accidents will happen but to be honest there is no need in todays world for unwanted pregnancies.No doubt these comments will not please the pro or anti lobbies but they are my best shot at fairness to all.
I agree with everything aside from no optional abortion. Contraceptives should be provided freely to reduce the need for abortions but i see no reason to deny an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy to a woman who doesn't or no longer wants the child. I think the standard is 20 weeks of pregnancy and that's a perfectly reasonable amount of time to let someone decide.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:52 pm
by FCBurnley
Test User wrote:I agree with everything aside from no optional abortion. Contraceptives should be provided freely to reduce the need for abortions but i see no reason to deny an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy to a woman who doesn't or no longer wants the child. I think the standard is 20 weeks of pregnancy and that's a perfectly reasonable amount of time to let someone decide.
I think it is time people stopped using abortion as a contraceptive. With all the contraceptive options available, unwanted pregnancies should be a thing of the past. People need to be responsible for their own actions

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 pm
by Test User
FCBurnley wrote:I think it is time people stopped using abortion as a contraceptive. With all the contraceptive options available, unwanted pregnancies should be a thing of the past. People need to be responsible for their own actions
OK. I don't think many people are using abortion as a contraceptive. I'm not sure why exactly you think a significant number of people are. The morning after pill is used quite widely, but then that's not an abortion, despite what some would have you believe.

There are plenty of good reasons why a woman might change her mind about a pregnancy that aren't treating it as a contraception, and i would rather be sure that those women have access to save abortion procedures rather than force them to carry a baby they either don't want or can't afford for reasons that have emerged after falling pregnant just because i don't want someone else using it as a contraceptive.

Sure, this way means that some people misuse it, but that's just something we have to deal. Like all rights, some people will abuse them.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 pm
by dsr
My own view is that the law should allow abortion in case of rape. My personal view is that in theory a woman should carry the baby to term, but in practice I doubt I would be able to do that myself if I was a woman, and I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticiise a woman who didn't.

But in the wider issue, there are as ever two/three camps who will never agree because there is no possible compromise.

1. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is not carrying a human being.
2. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a living human being, but that human being's life is disposable in a given set of circumstances.
3. Anti-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a human being whose life is worth saving (except perhaps in exceptional circumstances. Like rape.)

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:39 am
by Test User
dsr wrote:My own view is that the law should allow abortion in case of rape. My personal view is that in theory a woman should carry the baby to term, but in practice I doubt I would be able to do that myself if I was a woman, and I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticiise a woman who didn't.

But in the wider issue, there are as ever two/three camps who will never agree because there is no possible compromise.

1. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is not carrying a human being.
2. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a living human being, but that human being's life is disposable in a given set of circumstances.
3. Anti-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a human being whose life is worth saving (except perhaps in exceptional circumstances. Like rape.)

If you think those are the only three camps then Alabama would like to have a word.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:57 am
by exilecanada
If Kentucky, Tennessee and others in the deep south bible belt follow Alabama’s lead, look for the ‘Useless State of Merica’ population to triple in the next few generations.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:50 am
by Greenmile
dsr wrote:My own view is that the law should allow abortion in case of rape. My personal view is that in theory a woman should carry the baby to term, but in practice I doubt I would be able to do that myself if I was a woman, and I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticiise a woman who didn't.

But in the wider issue, there are as ever two/three camps who will never agree because there is no possible compromise.

1. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is not carrying a human being.
2. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a living human being, but that human being's life is disposable in a given set of circumstances.
3. Anti-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a human being whose life is worth saving (except perhaps in exceptional circumstances. Like rape.)
Nobody is “pro-abortion”. Some folk just believe that women should have autonomy over their own bodies (along with any foetus - not human being - that may be contained therein).

I’m sure I’ve told you this before, but true to form, you keep peddling the same lies.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:03 pm
by Test User
Greenmile wrote:Nobody is “pro-abortion”. Some folk just believe that women should have autonomy over their own bodies (along with any foetus - not human being - that may be contained therein).

I’m sure I’ve told you this before, but true to form, you keep peddling the same lies.
Some people don't understand that it's possible to oppose abortion while also believing it should be legal.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 2:09 pm
by BurningBeard
dsr wrote:My own view is that the law should allow abortion in case of rape. My personal view is that in theory a woman should carry the baby to term, but in practice I doubt I would be able to do that myself if I was a woman, and I certainly wouldn't condemn or criticiise a woman who didn't.

But in the wider issue, there are as ever two/three camps who will never agree because there is no possible compromise.

1. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is not carrying a human being.
2. Pro-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a living human being, but that human being's life is disposable in a given set of circumstances.
3. Anti-abortion: those who believe that the mother is carrying a human being whose life is worth saving (except perhaps in exceptional circumstances. Like rape.)
No value judgements here at all.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:07 pm
by Falcon
As with Northern Irish women going to England to get their abortions, people will simply travel to get the procedure done.

I feel for the young girls who have no means of transport, and are too ashamed to speak to their family about it.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:11 pm
by ZizkovClaret
aggi wrote:This was always the end-game for a lot of people in getting Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

You do have to look at the people making the decisions and think that maybe this isn't the group that is going to be impacted most by these new laws.
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Until one of them inevitably chucks one up a female employee then has some miraculous road to Damascus moment....

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:12 pm
by ZizkovClaret
claret59 wrote:Dyched states: 'A woman as the inalienable right to do whatever she likes with her body.'

The problem here are that there are two bodies involved and two innocent victims.
The victims being who?

Hypothetically, a 6 week old bunch of cells and a rapist?

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:16 pm
by ZizkovClaret
Falcon wrote:As with Northern Irish women going to England to get their abortions, people will simply travel to get the procedure done.

I feel for the young girls who have no means of transport, and are too ashamed to speak to their family about it.
Or where a member of their family is the cause of the thing....

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:19 pm
by Test User
Falcon wrote:As with Northern Irish women going to England to get their abortions, people will simply travel to get the procedure done.

I feel for the young girls who have no means of transport, and are too ashamed to speak to their family about it.
Yep. And those who want to but don't will tend to be the poorest. Which means laws like these increase children in poverty. The same people forcing these laws on women are the same people who think welfare should be cut and that Americas poor people are enjoying an easy ride.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:39 pm
by ElectroClaret
This law is only partly to do with abortion.
It is all part of a far wider agenda by the fundamentalist right wing nutjobs in the US, particularly in the southern States, to hijack all aspects of law making, both at state and federal levels.
This attempt to replace existing abortion laws is a "canary in the mine" probe to see how far they can push things. So if this gets enacted, get ready for things like anti gay and transgender legislation, in fact against all minorities that don't conform to their twisted "morality".

Ably assisted by the f***wit in the White House.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 4:56 pm
by Greenmile
Test User wrote:Some people don't understand that it's possible to oppose abortion while also believing it should be legal.

..and some people do, but pretend not to so they can make an entirely disingenous argument.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 5:19 pm
by Test User
ElectroClaret wrote:This law is only partly to do with abortion.
It is all part of a far wider agenda by the fundamentalist right wing nutjobs in the US, particularly in the southern States, to hijack all aspects of law making, both at state and federal levels.
This attempt to replace existing abortion laws is a "canary in the mine" probe to see how far they can push things. So if this gets enacted, get ready for things like anti gay and transgender legislation, in fact against all minorities that don't conform to their twisted "morality".

Ably assisted by the f***wit in the White House.
It's a stated aim that these laws are intended to be challenged in court in order to overturn Roe v Wade.

It's how they managed to absolutely gut the Voting Rights Act which has allowed some of the most blatant targeted voter disenfranchisement practices you'll see outside of tinpot dictatorships.
This is how you attack a democracy. You don't do it with bombs, you do it by undermining it from the inside.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:15 pm
by claret59
There was a time when abortion was illegal in recognition of the child in the womb having no voice or 'choice.' If there was such a choice would it choose for its own death? Six weeks is NOT a bunch of cells it is a formed baby with all of the characteristics it would have if it went to full term. All it does after six weeks is grow and develop the body it already has.
Abortion , in some circumstances , in this country can be carried out up to the point of being born. (I think it was President Clinton who passed partial birth abortion into law, the wilful and lawful killing of a child in the very act of being born!) but thankfully this was rescinded by a later President,) , this is not six weeks but nine months, and the manner of killing is grotesque.
The more we sanitise abortion by removing the humanity of the unborn the easier it is to carry out its death.
All of us posting on here were once six weeks old in the womb but thankfully our parents/ mothers did not have us aborted.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 8:51 pm
by Greenmile
claret59 wrote:... Six weeks is NOT a bunch of cells it is a formed baby with all of the characteristics it would have if it went to full term...
Do characteristics such as arms, legs, ears, eyes, a brain or a head not count then?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy ... -pregnant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An embryo (not even a foetus yet) at 6 weeks does not yet have “humanity”, no matter what they might try to tell you in church, or on Fox News. It does have a tail, though, which is pretty cool.

For balance, at 9 months, the embryo / foetus has very much grown into a human, but I’m fairly sure (though I’m willing to be corrected by someone better informed than you obviously are) that abortions are only available after about 20 weeks in the UK if there is a serious risk to the life of the mother. The phrase “partial birth abortion” relates to the specific procedure carried out - it doesn’t mean abortions carried out during the birthing process (ie at 9 months).

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:28 pm
by Test User
Greenmile wrote:Do characteristics such as arms, legs, ears, eyes, a brain or a head not count then?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy ... -pregnant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An embryo (not even a foetus yet) at 6 weeks does not yet have “humanity”, no matter what they might try to tell you in church, or on Fox News. It does have a tail, though, which is pretty cool.

For balance, at 9 months, the embryo / foetus has very much grown into a human, but I’m fairly sure (though I’m willing to be corrected by someone better informed than you obviously are) that abortions are only available after about 20 weeks in the UK if there is a serious risk to the life of the mother. The phrase “partial birth abortion” relates to the specific procedure carried out - it doesn’t mean abortions carried out during the birthing process (ie at 9 months).
There are people (*****, i call them) who like to spread the lie that partial birth abortions are carried out at the whims of the doctor and patient, and that anyone who supports a women's right to choose are fully supporting of partial birth abortions to everyone for every reason. We just love murdering babies, they believe.

Not that partial birth abortions are in any way murder, of course. Its' not even a medically accepted term, but it is used to describe a procedure that women choose to go through when they're experiencing a miscarriage but want the fetus to remain intact, or to protect themselves from injury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_di ... extraction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But facts dont' matter do many in this debate.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:51 pm
by dsr
Greenmile wrote:Nobody is “pro-abortion”. Some folk just believe that women should have autonomy over their own bodies (along with any foetus - not human being - that may be contained therein).

I’m sure I’ve told you this before, but true to form, you keep peddling the same lies.
Of course people who want abortion to be legal are pro-abortion. They are in favour of abortion. Saying they aren't is as nonsensical as saying that people who in favour of the death penalty don't want to hang anyone,.

As for the idea that a foetus isn't a human being- that's an opinion. I'm not aware of you ever telling me why a foetus is not human, though I do remember imploding turtle telling me that science has conclusively proved that it isn't human at 6 weeks, it is human at birth, and at some point (he doesn't know when) something happens (he doesn't know what) that turns it from non-human to human. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

But what you certainly have in common with imploding turtle is belief in your own omniscience. He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is a liar.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 11:59 pm
by Test User
dsr wrote:Of course people who want abortion to be legal are pro-abortion. They are in favour of abortion. Saying they aren't is as nonsensical as saying that people who in favour of the death penalty don't want to hang anyone,.

Interesting, because there's a lot of pro-life and pro death penalty overlap among their supporters.

I'm in favour of abortion being legal, safe and rare. I oppose abortion though, generally speaking. These aren't contradictory beliefs. There are a lot of things that i personally oppose but believe that they should also be legal. Religion being one example i'm sure you can relate with. I oppose your religion. I think it's stupid beyond belief, as i think other religions are stupid beyond belief. But i'm fully supportive of your right to practice it.

So yes, it's perfectly possible to support a woman's right to choose while also opposing the choice they sometimes make.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:48 am
by Greenmile
dsr wrote:Of course people who want abortion to be legal are pro-abortion. They are in favour of abortion. Saying they aren't is as nonsensical as saying that people who in favour of the death penalty don't want to hang anyone,.

As for the idea that a foetus isn't a human being- that's an opinion. I'm not aware of you ever telling me why a foetus is not human, though I do remember imploding turtle telling me that science has conclusively proved that it isn't human at 6 weeks, it is human at birth, and at some point (he doesn't know when) something happens (he doesn't know what) that turns it from non-human to human. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

But what you certainly have in common with imploding turtle is belief in your own omniscience. He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is a liar.
Do you think supporting Blackburn Rovers should be made illegal? If not, by your reasoning, that makes you “pro-Blackburn Rovers”. You’re basically coming out to everyone as a horse-botherer.

Edit - and I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is a liar. I just think you are a liar. The most dishonest person I’ve ever interacted with, in fact.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:42 am
by Lord Beamish
Greenmile wrote:Do you think supporting Blackburn Rovers should be made illegal? If not, by your reasoning, that makes you “pro-Blackburn Rovers”. You’re basically coming out to everyone as a horse-botherer.

Edit - and I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is a liar. I just think you are a liar. The most dishonest person I’ve ever interacted with, in fact.
The religious tend to be practiced sophists on debates like these.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:14 pm
by AndrewJB
dsr wrote:Of course people who want abortion to be legal are pro-abortion. They are in favour of abortion. Saying they aren't is as nonsensical as saying that people who in favour of the death penalty don't want to hang anyone,.

As for the idea that a foetus isn't a human being- that's an opinion. I'm not aware of you ever telling me why a foetus is not human, though I do remember imploding turtle telling me that science has conclusively proved that it isn't human at 6 weeks, it is human at birth, and at some point (he doesn't know when) something happens (he doesn't know what) that turns it from non-human to human. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

But what you certainly have in common with imploding turtle is belief in your own omniscience. He also thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is a liar.
I don't know anyone who would describe themselves as 'pro abortion', but instead 'pro choice' in the matter.

Re: Extremist Abortion Laws

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:44 pm
by Uwe Noble
aggi wrote:This was always the end-game for a lot of people in getting Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court.

You do have to look at the people making the decisions and think that maybe this isn't the group that is going to be impacted most by these new laws.
Capture.JPG
What a wuss you are. Playing the feminist game. Please grow a pair. By the way it was a female governor who signed this law off. Men have rights here as well as women and of course above all the unborn child.