Average Player Ratings 2018/19

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ClaretTony
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Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby ClaretTony » Fri May 17, 2019 12:15 am

6.92: Tom Heaton
6.85: James Tarkowski
6.80: Joe Hart
6.78: Dwight McNeil
6.74: Phil Bardsley
6.64: Charlie Taylor & Ashley Westwood
6.63: Ben Mee
6.45: Kevin Long
6.36: Ashley Barnes
6.35: Jeff Hendrick
6.17: Jack Cork
5.94: Jόhann Berg Guðmundsson & Matt Lowton
5.76: Chris Wood
5.71: Sam Vokes
5.64: Steven Defour, Aaron Lennon & Matěj Vydra
5.56: Robbie Brady
5.54: Stephen Ward

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Tricky Trevor » Fri May 17, 2019 8:55 am

Interesting that the only regulars below 6 are Lowton & Wood and Lowton was a long way from his best pre-Xmas.
All the remainder were bit part players, for whatever reason.
To improve we need a couple of 7s and more 6.5+s

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Goobs » Fri May 17, 2019 9:25 am

Strange that Hart is vilified by some and Dwight is generally put on a pedestal and yet Hart was rated higher on scores alone.

Also strange some of the comments on Tarks having had a bad season yet still averaging almost a 7 and being our second highest rated player.

Whilst we didn't have our greatest ever season post xmas we have been superb (generally) and the scores on the whole seem a little on the low side IMO.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby SalisburyClaret » Fri May 17, 2019 9:25 am

Interesting that Hart does so well. Also that Tarka is our best outfield player especially when many have said his standards have dropped slightly this season.
McNeil is our second best outfield player which shows that the injury to Lennon was probably the pivotal point of the season

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby ClaretTony » Fri May 17, 2019 9:38 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Interesting that the only regulars below 6 are Lowton & Wood and Lowton was a long way from his best pre-Xmas.
All the remainder were bit part players, for whatever reason.
To improve we need a couple of 7s and more 6.5+s


Was just looking at last season's and there were no players below 6 while Defour, Mee, Tarkowski, Heaton, Lowton, Cork, Pope & Brady all scored above 7.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby bfccrazy » Fri May 17, 2019 9:39 am

Joe Hart - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 77 saves
Tom Heaton - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 63 saves

Isn’t that shocking that they got decent scores.

I think most of our team were below par of their usual standards til Christmas which made Hart the scapegoat. I prefer Heatons commanding of his area etc .... but the stats are very similar numbers wise and both had balls cleared off the line etc ...
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Falcon » Fri May 17, 2019 9:41 am

The difference between Barnes and Wood's scores just goes to show the effect being a 'fan favourite' can have. Both scored 12 goals.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby ClaretTony » Fri May 17, 2019 9:43 am

bfccrazy wrote:Joe Hart - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 77 saves
Tom Heaton - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 63 saves

Isn’t that shocking that they got decent scores.

I think most of our team were below par of their usual standards til Christmas which made Hart the scapegoat. I prefer Heatons commanding of his area etc .... but the stats are very similar numbers wise and both had balls cleared off the line etc ...


One huge difference between them is that Tom didn't have as much to do in the second half of the season when the performances were, generally, so much better.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby randomclaret2 » Fri May 17, 2019 9:46 am

I thought Hart was by and large outstanding and the flak he takes has really surprised me
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Colburn_Claret » Fri May 17, 2019 9:50 am

Falcon wrote:The difference between Barnes and Wood's scores just goes to show the effect being a 'fan favourite' can have. Both scored 12 goals.

More the fact that Barnes contributes a lot more off the ball than Wood does. He's always working his markers and causing problems.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby bfccrazy » Fri May 17, 2019 9:53 am

ClaretTony wrote:One huge difference between them is that Tom didn't have as much to do in the second half of the season when the performances were, generally, so much better.


Which is why I said the performances from the team were below par until Christmas and Hart got the flak......

Performances picked up from the whole team and Heaton performed the same - maybe Heaton has more trust from our players and it gives them a psychological edge but Hart was/is a great keeper and performed well in a team that wasn’t firing on all cylinders.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby AlargeClaret » Fri May 17, 2019 9:53 am

Spot on really and very much reflects our season .
Most telling point being the Hart haters who totally got him wrong . He played well for us and was as good as error free ( as any keeper could be ) Though TH is better JH was just the victim of a much needed shake up.

I know for a fact that the training sessions these 2 plus Pope and Linders )have had this season have been unbelievable in their intensity
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Devils_Advocate » Fri May 17, 2019 9:55 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:More the fact that Barnes contributes a lot more off the ball than Wood does. He's always working his markers and causing problems.

Wood running the channels and giving us options off the ball is equally as valuable as what Barnes does. I completely agree with Falcon as Wood has to do a lot more good stuff than Barnes to get an equally high score and Barnes has to do a lot more bad stuff then Wood to get an equally low mark.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby ClaretLoup » Fri May 17, 2019 9:56 am

Interesting that the team scored eight more goals than last season but let in twenty nine more but the forwards were all much further down the ratings.

What does that say about the way we assess the players?

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby CrosspoolClarets » Fri May 17, 2019 9:57 am

I maintain my view that Hart is our best keeper due to his ability to pull off a world class save, which he did several times in that first half of the season. Cardiff away was obviously pivotal and Hart got us through that game in a way Tom and Nick may not have, but to be fair to Tom he did pull of a couple of worldies in his first few games back, but they then tended to disappear in latter games.

Tom’s strength is his consistency and organisation, Nick’s is his high claims. All are good keepers and the marks over the season appear fair.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KRBFC » Fri May 17, 2019 10:36 am

I thought Hart was top drawer for us, a shame the rest of the squad seemed to go on strike until they got their wish of Heaton back in goal, toys out of the pram.

Unfortunately for Hart, his inclusion in England teams (when he wasn't here) over our other goalkeepers meant a vocal minority of our supporters didn't like him before he signed and never gave him a fair crack at it once he joined. You only have to look at some of the nonsense spouted by IanMcl while Hart was making wonder saves to see what I mean, every goal he conceded ''Heaton would have saved that'' yet non of the Hart haters mentioned we were conceding 30+ shots away at Wolves/Fulham. Based on his form, he shouldn't struggle to find a PL move, looked superb for us.

I actually think on ability he's our best goalkeeper, I'd just love to know why the players gave up and stomped their feet.
Last edited by KRBFC on Fri May 17, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby ClaretTony » Fri May 17, 2019 10:37 am

AlargeClaret wrote:Most telling point being the Hart haters who totally got him wrong


Haters? - I think the point people have made is how much improvement there has been in the second half of the season when Heaton coming in for Hart was one of the changes made. I can't recall one single post on this board that has suggested hate.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KRBFC » Fri May 17, 2019 10:38 am

ClaretTony wrote:Haters? - I think the point people have made is how much improvement there has been in the second half of the season when Heaton coming in for Hart was one of the changes made. I can't recall one single post on this board that has suggested hate.

Go look at nonsense posted by posters like IanMcl about Hart to see what he means, he slagged Hart to death regardless of how well he played.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby SGr » Fri May 17, 2019 10:43 am

Makes you think really. Hart was our best performing player for a good few months along with Gudmundsson. Now I'm not refuting that Heaton made *a difference*, but Hart was labelled as the main issue when players like Cork and Mee were playing so poorly, for example.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 am

bfccrazy wrote:Joe Hart - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 77 saves
Tom Heaton - 19 games .. 4 clean sheets .. 63 saves

Isn’t that shocking that they got decent scores.

I think most of our team were below par of their usual standards til Christmas which made Hart the scapegoat. I prefer Heatons commanding of his area etc .... but the stats are very similar numbers wise and both had balls cleared off the line etc ...

Dont post facts
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby aggi » Fri May 17, 2019 10:54 am

Do you have the spreadsheet behind these numbers? I'd be interested to see how they changed as the season progressed.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Fri May 17, 2019 10:55 am

ClaretTony wrote:One huge difference between them is that Tom didn't have as much to do in the second half of the season when the performances were, generally, so much better.

But still only kept the same clean sheets

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KRBFC » Fri May 17, 2019 11:01 am

SGr wrote:Makes you think really. Hart was our best performing player for a good few months along with Gudmundsson. Now I'm not refuting that Heaton made *a difference*, but Hart was labelled as the main issue when players like Cork and Mee were playing so poorly, for example.

Numerous article at the time were wrote by different newspapers claiming the players essentially threw their toys out of the pram because they felt Heaton was treated poorly, I wonder how true those reports were....

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby aggi » Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:But still only kept the same clean sheets


That's a pointless measure though. It's the equivalent of only giving a striker one goal, even if they score a hat-trick.

Hart conceded 41 against Heaton's 27 in the same number of games (it was helpful of Dyche to switch them exactly halfway through the season).
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby AlargeClaret » Fri May 17, 2019 11:02 am

ClaretTony wrote:Haters? - I think the point people have made is how much improvement there has been in the second half of the season when Heaton coming in for Hart was one of the changes made. I can't recall one single post on this board that has suggested hate.


I use the term”haters” very loosely but the negativity towards Hart on this board for instance when he was dropped prior to the WC was numerous and vociferous ,as it also was when we signed him . When he actually played for us many were very complimentary

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Fri May 17, 2019 11:08 am

aggi wrote:That's a pointless measure though. It's the equivalent of only giving a striker one goal, even if they score a hat-trick.

Hart conceded 41 against Heaton's 27 in the same number of games (it was helpful of Dyche to switch them exactly halfway through the season).

But he faced more shots. And made more saves. And still kept the same clean sheets

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby aggi » Fri May 17, 2019 11:58 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:But he faced more shots. And made more saves. And still kept the same clean sheets


But clean sheets is still a pointless measure.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Dyched » Fri May 17, 2019 12:11 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:But he faced more shots. And made more saves. And still kept the same clean sheets


So the extra 14 goals conceded don’t matter?

To be honest. If I was manager I’d pick my back 4 and ask them to choose the goalkeeper. They’ll know far better who they trust. It was pretty obvious in the second half of the season they trusted Heaton far more than they did Hart.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby cricketfieldclarets » Fri May 17, 2019 12:21 pm

Dyched wrote:So the extra 14 goals conceded don’t matter?

To be honest. If I was manager I’d pick my back 4 and ask them to choose the goalkeeper. They’ll know far better who they trust. It was pretty obvious in the second half of the season they trusted Heaton far more than they did Hart.

As manager you would ask your players to pick the team?

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Dyched » Fri May 17, 2019 12:33 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:As manager you would ask your players to pick the team?


I’d ask my defence who they feel comfortable and trusting in goal. I’d pick the one who they say. It was evidently clear the defence trusted Heaton and not Hart.
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Jakubs Tash » Fri May 17, 2019 12:44 pm

Even though the average ratings aren't that high it's good to see Tarkowski second on the list. An excellent defender who 'has it all' but for some reason gets a lot of unnecessary and unwarranted stick from some supporters.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Shore claret » Fri May 17, 2019 2:17 pm

we all know that being a good goalkeeper is more than just stopping shots, the defence is much better stood infront of Heaton than Hart.
Hart is good Goalkeeper but he doesn't fit the team like Heaton and Pope do.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Dublin7Claret » Fri May 17, 2019 2:47 pm

One thing that the list shows is our most creative players (wonderkid McNeill excluded) are all near the bottom - Brady, Defour, Gudmondsson, Vydra, Lennon. Admittedly they've had limited playing time, but if there is an area for improvement it is getting the more creative players more involved (and that could be an upgrade in these areas, either in quality or signing someone who has less injury problems).

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby the_fat_shearer » Fri May 17, 2019 4:03 pm

5.76: Chris Wood


10 league goals but only 5.76! Wow, can't wait for next season, just think how many he will get if he averages only 6.5!!!
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KlyBfc » Fri May 17, 2019 6:49 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Wood running the channels and giving us options off the ball is equally as valuable as what Barnes does. I completely agree with Falcon as Wood has to do a lot more good stuff than Barnes to get an equally high score and Barnes has to do a lot more bad stuff then Wood to get an equally low mark.


Absolutely nailed on.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Nonayforever » Fri May 17, 2019 8:32 pm

the_fat_shearer wrote:5.76: Chris Wood


10 league goals but only 5.76! Wow, can't wait for next season, just think how many he will get if he averages only 6.5!!!


I think Wood, had he stayed onside a lot more, would have received far higher scores for the same work rate and goals scored.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Burnley1989 » Fri May 17, 2019 9:55 pm

Dyched wrote:I’d ask my defence who they feel comfortable and trusting in goal. I’d pick the one who they say. It was evidently clear the defence trusted Heaton and not Hart.


Surely fishing.....

Dont bite James
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby South West Claret. » Fri May 17, 2019 9:57 pm

Joe Hart 3rd? Some mistake surely.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby Burnley1989 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:11 am

If the ratings were based on how the players in front of you played he’d probably have scored 3 & 4’s but as it’s based on his own performance I can see why he’s rated highly as 9 times out of 10 he was our best player.

I wonder if when Bristol City (I think it was) got relegated and Heaton was their player of the year... surely it’s his fault the defensive played so badly
;)
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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby MDWat » Sat May 18, 2019 9:12 am

No surprise to see Tarkowski at the top, for me. My player of the season and by a distance.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby WestMidsClaret » Sat May 18, 2019 9:20 am

If I had to choose one between Wood and Barnes I'd choose Barnes every day of the week over Wood. And probably every day of the next week too.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KlyBfc » Sat May 18, 2019 10:24 am

WestMidsClaret wrote:If I had to choose one between Wood and Barnes I'd choose Barnes every day of the week over Wood. And probably every day of the next week too.


Yet last season when we had Barnes and no wood we didn’t win for around 15 games until Wood returned. Similar this season in that it was his return to form and pairing with barnes that saw us start to win again.

I’d hazard a guess that in Woods time at Burnley our win percentage with wood in the team is better than without and is better than Barnes’s.m

Doesn’t have to be a competition really as they are both good players and together they are our best partnership, however the point made above is correct in how some people view / judge /rate the twos performances.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby NL Claret » Sat May 18, 2019 10:37 am

KlyBfc wrote:Yet last season when we had Barnes and no wood we didn’t win for around 15 games until Wood returned. Similar this season in that it was his return to form and pairing with barnes that saw us start to win again.

I’d hazard a guess that in Woods time at Burnley our win percentage with wood in the team is better than without and is better than Barnes’s.m

Doesn’t have to be a competition really as they are both good players and together they are our best partnership, however the point made above is correct in how some people view / judge /rate the twos performances.


Didn't win for around 15 games? Which season are you referring to?

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby KlyBfc » Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 am

NL Claret wrote:Didn't win for around 15 games? Which season are you referring to?

I said ‘around’ might have been ten might have been 12 wood played in a couple of those as well and I don’t have the fixture list with me but we went from Brighton away until Everton at home without a win, and wood got injured very early on v spurs at home early in that winless run

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby NL Claret » Sat May 18, 2019 11:39 am

Sorry I was thinking you meant last season as in 18/19. I'd forget about that winless run in 17/18, hard to believe we went over 2 months without a win and still finished 7th.

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Re: Average Player Ratings 2018/19

Postby tarkys_ears » Sat May 18, 2019 12:00 pm

Joe Hart has failed at every single club he's been at since he was kicked out of city.

Nothing to do with our supporters.


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