The next Tory Leader..

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Colburn_Claret
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat May 25, 2019 1:10 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:You see- this is the bit that I and many others simply don't get.
Why would you put brexit ahead of your own well-being and that of your family?
It's domestic policies that ultimately determine how happy you will be, and it seems remarkable that so many people are saying, I don't care about my living standards, quality of life etc., so long as we get our "brexit". It really has become a religion with a cult following.
It may be - though personally I cant' see it, that brexit wouldn't make the poor worse off, but even allowing that brexit turned out ok, do you actually believe that the likes of Johnson, Farage, Redwood, Rees Mogg etc. would pursue policies that would be good for Burnley and working class people in general?
Do you ever consider what policies they have for the NHS, (e.g. Farage - privatise), education, services, regional development, jobs etc.?
People are currently so obsessed with brexit and division that many are losing sight of the bigger picture.
The point you're missing is Brexit will alter this countries destiny for the next 50 years plus......the next Tory leader will determine the destiny of this country for the next 2 at most. Two completely separate issues, and you shouldnt be basing your opinion for one on the outcome of the other.
Westminster this last 3 years, but even before that, has been going downhill fast. Professional politicians putting their parties before the country. But the only reason to vote to remain is because you believe in the EU, and it's closer and closer ties, not because you think it's a better alternative to the present incumbents of Parliament. This last year has opened the eyes of many people to the failings of Westminster. A sea change is coming in British politics, whether that's a new party, or a new direction, or new personnel, but theres nothing to say that the next lot will not be far better. We could have a great future if only we can get the right people in the right roles.
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taio
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by taio » Sat May 25, 2019 1:12 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Yes. This is the same JRM who wants tax cuts for higher earners, and described £4 billion worth of cuts as not going anywhere near far enough.
Something doesn't add up. Maybe you choose to disregard his voting records:
How Jacob Rees-Mogg voted on Welfare and Benefits
Consistently voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax") Show votes
17 votes for, 0 votes against, 1 absence, between 2012–2018
Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices Show votes
0 votes for, 5 votes against, in 2013
Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability Show votes
0 votes for, 14 votes against, 1 absence, between 2011–2016
Consistently voted for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support Show votes
4 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2012
Consistently voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits Show votes
52 votes for, 0 votes against, 2 absences, between 2012–2016
etc. etc.
That has nothing to do with the point I was making.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Spijed » Sat May 25, 2019 1:15 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:We could have a great future if only we can get the right people in the right roles.
Great future in what way?

Unlimited wealth for all?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat May 25, 2019 1:22 pm

taio wrote:That has nothing to do with the point I was making.
With respect it has.
Do you think a leopard will suddenly change its spots? Just look at his past voting record.
He wants a much smaller welfare state and more tax cuts. He might want to direct more money into one area, but that would inevitably lead to greater cuts in others.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat May 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Spijed wrote:Great future in what way?

Unlimited wealth for all?
I live in the real world, not somewhere over the rainbow.

The only true great future is one where EVERYBODY has the opportunity to make the most of their lives. Where you can count on a good education, a good health service, job security, and walk the streets in safety.
You create that climate and what you make of it is up to you.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by taio » Sat May 25, 2019 1:27 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:With respect it has.
Do you think a leopard will suddenly change its spots? Just look at his past voting record.
He wants a much smaller welfare state and more tax cuts. He might want to direct more money into one area, but that would inevitably lead to greater cuts in others.
Of course balancing the books and prioritisation of how public money is spent is important - otherwise we have a situation where either public spending rises to unsustainable levels or we see a load of empty and undeliverable spending commitments.

He may have signalled more money in one area but I would continue to argue that social care is one of the most important domestic policy issues of our time.

Do you think what Rees-Mogg said about social care relates to domestic policy?

Is social care a key domestic policy issue that needs to be addressed?

Would you support extending the welfare state with social care being funded through general taxation and largely free at the point of use better aligned to the NHS?

Do you think such a policy would benefit the residents of Burnley?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat May 25, 2019 1:30 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:T This last year has opened the eyes of many people to the failings of Westminster. .
So here's a great idea. Let's just give all our power to the Westminster government and lose all money that's been coming to the regions via the EU.
Let's set ourselves up as a Tax Haven, let's reduce the budget for services, pay for our own private medical insurance, and cut ourselves off from our biggest market.
You're right in a sense that the next PM might only last 2 years, but it's the decisions that he / she might make that will potentially still be felt in 50 years time.
The first and most important task of the next PM should be to try to bring the country together for the benefit and prosperity of all.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat May 25, 2019 1:33 pm

taio wrote:Of course balancing the books and prioritisation of how public money is spent is important - otherwise we have a situation where either public spending rises to unsustainable levels or we see a load of empty and undeliverable spending commitments.

He may have signalled more money in one area but I would continue to argue that social care is one of the most important domestic policy issues of our time.

Do you think what Rees-Mogg said about social care relates to domestic policy?

Is social care a key domestic policy issue that needs to be addressed?

Would you support extending the welfare state with social care being funded through general taxation and largely free at the point of use better aligned to the NHS?

Do you think such a policy would benefit the residents of Burnley?
The answer to all those questions is yes, but I don't think you really grasp my point, so at risk of being libellous. I don't believe JRM's recent statement based on his history in this area and his voting record. If you do - then fair enough.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by taio » Sat May 25, 2019 1:33 pm

What is his voting history on matters specific to social care?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat May 25, 2019 1:49 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:So here's a great idea. Let's just give all our power to the Westminster government and lose all money that's been coming to the regions via the EU.
Let's set ourselves up as a Tax Haven, let's reduce the budget for services, pay for our own private medical insurance, and cut ourselves off from our biggest market.
You're right in a sense that the next PM might only last 2 years, but it's the decisions that he / she might make that will potentially still be felt in 50 years time.
The first and most important task of the next PM should be to try to bring the country together for the benefit and prosperity of all.
Do you not realise that the money the EU gives to the regions in reality comes from Britain. IF we get the right people in the right roles, there's nothing to stop Westminster giving money to the regions . We just cut out the middle man. I'm not saying that will happen, that's up to whichever government is in charge. The point is if they dont do or deliver, what you want, you always have the power to change it.
We aren't cutting ourselves off from any market, just changing the parameter in which we trade, whilst opening up opportunities to expand in the rest of the world. Of course those changes will have some losers, but it will also have winners. The rhetoric that it's the end of the world is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Pstotto » Sat May 25, 2019 1:54 pm

Sounds like nil_desperandum is too busy fattening up the desperandum clan, to see that it will be roast dinner 10 years further down the line.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by tim_noone » Sat May 25, 2019 2:31 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I live in the real world, not somewhere over the rainbow.

The only true great future is one where EVERYBODY has the opportunity to make the most of their lives. Where you can count on a good education, a good health service, job security, and walk the streets in safety.
You create that climate and what you make of it is up to you.
:D
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by claret_in_exile » Sat May 25, 2019 2:59 pm

mdd2 wrote:Corbyn will become PM by default as when the next GE comes after the Blonde idiot tries to take us out of Europe with NO DEAL
This is what I fear will happen. BoJo is stupid enough to want the job now and there's zero chance he'll get anything passed through Parliament, hence a hard Brexit. In the aftermath, the Tories become unelectable for a generation and Corbyn gets a sizable majority in the next GE.

God help us all.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat May 25, 2019 3:12 pm

claret_in_exile wrote:This is what I fear will happen. BoJo is stupid enough to want the job now and there's zero chance he'll get anything passed through Parliament, hence a hard Brexit. In the aftermath, the Tories become unelectable for a generation and Corbyn gets a sizable majority in the next GE.

God help us all.
A very realistic scenario.
His best chance, should he win, is deliver the Brexit, then call a GE immediately. Once Brexit is delivered people can start concentrating on what each party offers as a vision of the future, rather than their stance on the EU.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Taffy on the wing » Sat May 25, 2019 6:10 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I live in the real world, not somewhere over the rainbow.

The only true great future is one where EVERYBODY has the opportunity to make the most of their lives. Where you can count on a good education, a good health service, job security, and walk the streets in safety.
You create that climate and what you make of it is up to you.
And, you certainly won't get that under a Conservative Government!
Oh.....Jeremy Corbyn...........Oh Jeremy Corbyn.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Top Claret » Sat May 25, 2019 6:16 pm

Taffy on the wing wrote:And, you certainly won't get that under a Conservative Government!
Oh.....Jeremy Corbyn...........Oh Jeremy Corbyn.

The only thing Labour and Corbyn will give this country is teenage pregnancy's, welfare benefits for the feckless, and future austerity when they once again bankrupt the country

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat May 25, 2019 6:48 pm

Top Claret wrote:The only thing Labour and Corbyn will give this country is teenage pregnancy's, .....
?????? :roll: :roll:
Even by Daily Express standards that's a pretty absurd claim.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by mkmel » Sat May 25, 2019 7:30 pm

More akin to the Daily Mail's front page

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by dsr » Sat May 25, 2019 11:57 pm

Spijed wrote:The only thing you can say with 100% certainty about Boris Johnson is that he's a racist.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 29376.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You mean because he wrote an article about what black women wear? Racist and sexist too, presumably. If you think that Boris was racist in that article, then God forbid you should ever go to Denmark - clearly they are Ku Klux Klan in comparison. And that's the government that went far beyond talking aobut letter boxes; they banned the whole outfit.

And as for the one about being racist because he suggested a man with Kenyan origins may have a certain prejudice about colonialism and the British Empire - well, many people on here have suggested that black people's attitudes are affected by their ancestry as slaves. What a bunch of racists? Of course not.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 26, 2019 12:00 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:A very realistic scenario.
His best chance, should he win, is deliver the Brexit, then call a GE immediately. Once Brexit is delivered people can start concentrating on what each party offers as a vision of the future, rather than their stance on the EU.
I want the brexit question sorted as much as the next man or woman to be PC,however even if BoJo gets the top job,how does he get a deal through parliament,listening to Radio 5 earlier and many Conservative MP'S are threatening to bring the government down if a no deal brexit is on the table,whether they would carry out this threat is impossible to say,but it would be a helluva risk for any PM to gamble on.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by dsr » Sun May 26, 2019 12:08 am

tiger76 wrote:I want the brexit question sorted as much as the next man or woman to be PC,however even if BoJo gets the top job,how does he get a deal through parliament,listening to Radio 5 earlier and many Conservative MP'S are threatening to bring the government down if a no deal brexit is on the table,whether they would carry out this threat is impossible to say,but it would be a helluva risk for any PM to gamble on.
On the other hand, it's just as big a gamble to disregard the referendum result and risk getting a general election result similar to the EU election result. If the three=quarters of the votes that have disappeared to the Brexit party are treated as not worth bothering about, then they won't come back.

It's a risk in all directions, but Remain is a bigger risk than Leave. Unless, as May appeared to, the new leader believes that it's more important to follow his vision for Brexit than it is to keep the Conservative party in existence.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by CardyTheClaret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:13 am

FactualFrank wrote:Which of these would anybody want? :o
next-leader.png
Esther Mckvey, any day of the week.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 26, 2019 12:52 am

CardyTheClaret wrote:Esther Mckvey, any day of the week.
Mcvey would be a gift horse to Corbyn,all the general public remember her for is her time at the DWP,and they don't remember it fondly,just glancing at her career and i notice she opposed same-sex marriage,hardly someone who is going to appeal to a more socially liberal society.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun May 26, 2019 1:30 am

we are a country of dimwits, boris will win because we call him by his first name.
in actual fact this old etonian dogturd is a deceiptful cheat and liar, but hey, forget that, his reputation as a dick will ensure he rules over us, simply because we are all insane
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun May 26, 2019 3:54 am

dsr wrote:You mean because he wrote an article about what black women wear? Racist and sexist too, presumably. If you think that Boris was racist in that article, then God forbid you should ever go to Denmark - clearly they are Ku Klux Klan in comparison. And that's the government that went far beyond talking aobut letter boxes; they banned the whole outfit.

And as for the one about being racist because he suggested a man with Kenyan origins may have a certain prejudice about colonialism and the British Empire - well, many people on here have suggested that black people's attitudes are affected by their ancestry as slaves. What a bunch of racists? Of course not.
Just in case you are still confused as to why Spijed might have thought Johnson was more than a bit racist, here's a bit of supporting evidence:

In his 2002 column in the Spectator, Boris penned an article titled: “Africa is a mess, but we can’t blame colonialism”.
In the piece, Boris described the continent as a “blot” and suggested that it would be better off if it was colonised again, writing: “The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more…the best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.”

In 2002, in a column in the Telegraph, he described black people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.

In his column in the Telegraph in 2006. described Papua New Guineans as prone to “cannibalism” and “chief-killing”

In 2008, under his editorship at the Spectator, he allowed a piece to be printed that claimed black people have lower IQs, . “Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores,” the piece read. “Blacks are at the other pole.”

In 2013, Boris suggested that the increase in Malaysian women going to university was down to the fact that they have “got to find men to marry”. Groans were reportedly heard from Malaysian women in the audience.

In a Tory party conference speech in 2016, Boris claimed that “the values of global Britain are needed more than ever” and that British “beliefs” are necessary to “lift the world out of poverty”.


After Barack Obama suggested that the UK should remain in the EU, Johnson said that the then-president should stay out of the conversation as he was “part-Kenyan” and had an “ancestral dislike” for the UK.

Last summer, Boris wrote in his column in the Telegraph that the burqa was “oppressive and ridiculous”, comparing Muslim women to “bank-robbers” and “letterboxes”.

And just to show that it's not just people of other races, faiths and cultures he disrespects, here are a few more comments that rather suggest he might not be quite the right sort of guy to lead a once proud nation such as ours, that was once respected and admired by the rest of the world, (or at least most of it):
In 2004, Boris was asked to apologise to Liverpudleans after writing in the Spectator that they were “wallowing” in “victim status” after the Hillsborough disaster. Boris said those who lived in the city needed to acknowledge the role played “by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground”.
In the 2005 leadership contest, bumbling BoJo said “voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3”. (Obviously a joke, but entirely inappropriate)
In his Spectator column in 2007 he blamed rising house prices on women graduates .
In the same article, he managed to wrap classism into sexism, writing: “The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, NEETS, and mug you on the street corner.”
Boris was asked to apologise after referring to Emily Thornberry using her husband’s name to ridicule her in the commons in early 2018.
Also in 2007, he described Hillary Clinton as looking like a “sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”. (Again clearly a joke, but this was about someone who might quite easily have been meeting as US President in hs time as Foreign Sec)

Of course, most of the above might well be regarded as a bit of harmless fun - assuming, that is, that you're either living in the 1970s / 80s, or a racist yourself.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun May 26, 2019 7:35 am

Was going to say couldn’t really see Rees -Mogg as a champion of social care! For me it’s Liz Truss someone needs to finally sort out the disgrace of cheese imports another important issue that has been lost in Brexit.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun May 26, 2019 7:37 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Just in case you are still confused as to why Spijed might have thought Johnson was more than a bit racist, here's a bit of supporting evidence:

In his 2002 column in the Spectator, Boris penned an article titled: “Africa is a mess, but we can’t blame colonialism”.
In the piece, Boris described the continent as a “blot” and suggested that it would be better off if it was colonised again, writing: “The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more…the best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.”

In 2002, in a column in the Telegraph, he described black people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.

In his column in the Telegraph in 2006. described Papua New Guineans as prone to “cannibalism” and “chief-killing”

In 2008, under his editorship at the Spectator, he allowed a piece to be printed that claimed black people have lower IQs, . “Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores,” the piece read. “Blacks are at the other pole.”

In 2013, Boris suggested that the increase in Malaysian women going to university was down to the fact that they have “got to find men to marry”. Groans were reportedly heard from Malaysian women in the audience.

In a Tory party conference speech in 2016, Boris claimed that “the values of global Britain are needed more than ever” and that British “beliefs” are necessary to “lift the world out of poverty”.


After Barack Obama suggested that the UK should remain in the EU, Johnson said that the then-president should stay out of the conversation as he was “part-Kenyan” and had an “ancestral dislike” for the UK.

Last summer, Boris wrote in his column in the Telegraph that the burqa was “oppressive and ridiculous”, comparing Muslim women to “bank-robbers” and “letterboxes”.

And just to show that it's not just people of other races, faiths and cultures he disrespects, here are a few more comments that rather suggest he might not be quite the right sort of guy to lead a once proud nation such as ours, that was once respected and admired by the rest of the world, (or at least most of it):
In 2004, Boris was asked to apologise to Liverpudleans after writing in the Spectator that they were “wallowing” in “victim status” after the Hillsborough disaster. Boris said those who lived in the city needed to acknowledge the role played “by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground”.
In the 2005 leadership contest, bumbling BoJo said “voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3”. (Obviously a joke, but entirely inappropriate)
In his Spectator column in 2007 he blamed rising house prices on women graduates .
In the same article, he managed to wrap classism into sexism, writing: “The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, NEETS, and mug you on the street corner.”
Boris was asked to apologise after referring to Emily Thornberry using her husband’s name to ridicule her in the commons in early 2018.
Also in 2007, he described Hillary Clinton as looking like a “sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”. (Again clearly a joke, but this was about someone who might quite easily have been meeting as US President in hs time as Foreign Sec)

Of course, most of the above might well be regarded as a bit of harmless fun - assuming, that is, that you're either living in the 1970s / 80s, or a racist yourself.
Boris is so funny and silly!
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by taio » Sun May 26, 2019 7:37 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Was going to say couldn’t really see Rees -Mogg as a champion of social care! For me it’s Liz Truss someone needs to finally sort out the disgrace of cheese imports another important issue that has been lost in Brexit.
No-one said he was a champion. Just that he was recently saying that social care should be funded through general taxation. I think that's a good and fair idea.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun May 26, 2019 9:29 am

taio wrote:No-one said he was a champion. Just that he was recently saying that social care should be funded through general taxation. I think that's a good and fair idea.
I hope that most people totally agree with you, but I can think of some on here who won't, (sadly).
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 26, 2019 9:41 am

Nope, its a good idea.

Course, the people who can afford to do this now are the ones who are currently at that age already, and react very badly when asked to pay for more. and the majority of them are Conservative voters, and a disproportionate amount of them are Conservative Party members.

But it effectively means tax rises, which JRM is on record saying that we should not do so I'm dubious about how he is going to fund it.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Greenmile » Sun May 26, 2019 9:48 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Just in case you are still confused as to why Spijed might have thought Johnson was more than a bit racist, here's a bit of supporting evidence:

In his 2002 column in the Spectator, Boris penned an article titled: “Africa is a mess, but we can’t blame colonialism”.
In the piece, Boris described the continent as a “blot” and suggested that it would be better off if it was colonised again, writing: “The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more…the best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.”

In 2002, in a column in the Telegraph, he described black people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.

In his column in the Telegraph in 2006. described Papua New Guineans as prone to “cannibalism” and “chief-killing”

In 2008, under his editorship at the Spectator, he allowed a piece to be printed that claimed black people have lower IQs, . “Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores,” the piece read. “Blacks are at the other pole.”

In 2013, Boris suggested that the increase in Malaysian women going to university was down to the fact that they have “got to find men to marry”. Groans were reportedly heard from Malaysian women in the audience.

In a Tory party conference speech in 2016, Boris claimed that “the values of global Britain are needed more than ever” and that British “beliefs” are necessary to “lift the world out of poverty”.


After Barack Obama suggested that the UK should remain in the EU, Johnson said that the then-president should stay out of the conversation as he was “part-Kenyan” and had an “ancestral dislike” for the UK.

Last summer, Boris wrote in his column in the Telegraph that the burqa was “oppressive and ridiculous”, comparing Muslim women to “bank-robbers” and “letterboxes”...
And yet I’ve never heard a word of criticism of Johnson from that tireless anti-racism campaigner, Rowls.

Funny that.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 26, 2019 9:51 am

He'll be on in a minute saying that this thread is about the "next Tory leader" and if you want him to comment on Boris Johnson being a racist, then it need to be a thread called "Boris Johnson is a racist" and thats where he mysteriously loses his log in details.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by taio » Sun May 26, 2019 10:13 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Nope, its a good idea.

Course, the people who can afford to do this now are the ones who are currently at that age already, and react very badly when asked to pay for more. and the majority of them are Conservative voters, and a disproportionate amount of them are Conservative Party members.

But it effectively means tax rises, which JRM is on record saying that we should not do so I'm dubious about how he is going to fund it.
People with capital in excess of £23,250 applies to so many other people - it's a widespread issue. Where do you get the idea that the majority are Conservative voters or members? There is plenty of research out there to show funding reform of social care would save the NHS vast sums of money.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by tiger76 » Sun May 26, 2019 11:22 am

Social care and climate change should be major issues in the next GE campaign,the problem is that confronting these issues might well mean difficult choices have to be made,successive governments of all hues have kicked this into the long grass for far too long,and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Blackrod » Sun May 26, 2019 11:26 am

Spijed wrote:Great future in what way?

Unlimited wealth for all?
Great grasp of economics.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Juxtaposition » Sun May 26, 2019 11:57 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Just in case you are still confused as to why Spijed might have thought Johnson was more than a bit racist, here's a bit of supporting evidence:

In his 2002 column in the Spectator, Boris penned an article titled: “Africa is a mess, but we can’t blame colonialism”.
In the piece, Boris described the continent as a “blot” and suggested that it would be better off if it was colonised again, writing: “The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more…the best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.”

In 2002, in a column in the Telegraph, he described black people as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”.

In his column in the Telegraph in 2006. described Papua New Guineans as prone to “cannibalism” and “chief-killing”

In 2008, under his editorship at the Spectator, he allowed a piece to be printed that claimed black people have lower IQs, . “Orientals…have larger brains and higher IQ scores,” the piece read. “Blacks are at the other pole.”

In 2013, Boris suggested that the increase in Malaysian women going to university was down to the fact that they have “got to find men to marry”. Groans were reportedly heard from Malaysian women in the audience.

In a Tory party conference speech in 2016, Boris claimed that “the values of global Britain are needed more than ever” and that British “beliefs” are necessary to “lift the world out of poverty”.


After Barack Obama suggested that the UK should remain in the EU, Johnson said that the then-president should stay out of the conversation as he was “part-Kenyan” and had an “ancestral dislike” for the UK.

Last summer, Boris wrote in his column in the Telegraph that the burqa was “oppressive and ridiculous”, comparing Muslim women to “bank-robbers” and “letterboxes”.

And just to show that it's not just people of other races, faiths and cultures he disrespects, here are a few more comments that rather suggest he might not be quite the right sort of guy to lead a once proud nation such as ours, that was once respected and admired by the rest of the world, (or at least most of it):
In 2004, Boris was asked to apologise to Liverpudleans after writing in the Spectator that they were “wallowing” in “victim status” after the Hillsborough disaster. Boris said those who lived in the city needed to acknowledge the role played “by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground”.
In the 2005 leadership contest, bumbling BoJo said “voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3”. (Obviously a joke, but entirely inappropriate)
In his Spectator column in 2007 he blamed rising house prices on women graduates .
In the same article, he managed to wrap classism into sexism, writing: “The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole – in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, NEETS, and mug you on the street corner.”
Boris was asked to apologise after referring to Emily Thornberry using her husband’s name to ridicule her in the commons in early 2018.
Also in 2007, he described Hillary Clinton as looking like a “sadistic nurse in a mental hospital”. (Again clearly a joke, but this was about someone who might quite easily have been meeting as US President in hs time as Foreign Sec)

Of course, most of the above might well be regarded as a bit of harmless fun - assuming, that is, that you're either living in the 1970s / 80s, or a racist yourself.

Yeah, but aside from all that what evidence is there that he's racist?
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun May 26, 2019 12:28 pm

Is Boris not allowed an opinion on anything?

Even if he his wrong?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:38 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I live in the real world, not somewhere over the rainbow.

The only true great future is one where EVERYBODY has the opportunity to make the most of their lives. Where you can count on a good education, a good health service, job security, and walk the streets in safety.
You create that climate and what you make of it is up to you.
Brexit won't solve any of that.

But you know that, and we know you know that, so why you keep saying it is more than a bit weird.
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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Greenmile » Sun May 26, 2019 12:43 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is Boris not allowed an opinion on anything?

Even if he his wrong?
Yes, he’s allowed his racist opinions. Are we allowed to have an opinion on Boris?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun May 26, 2019 12:45 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is Boris not allowed an opinion on anything?

Even if he his wrong?
He's allowed an opinion on everything, but as a potential PM you would hope that any opinion he expresses is considered, has at least some basis in fact, and is not inflammatory, racist, sexist or misogynist.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Brexit won't solve any of that.

But you know that, and we know you know that, so why you keep saying it is more than a bit weird.
Where did I claim Brexit would solve it.

It's up to us, in or out of the EU, to create that. We do that by the people we send to Westminster, and they have to be better than the present incumbents.

So you statement makes no sense, but then that's nothing new.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Vino blanco » Sun May 26, 2019 12:49 pm

It could well be Johnson v Corbyn at the next GE. And I thought Trump v Clinton was an abominable choice! Politics eh?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:50 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Where did I claim Brexit would solve it.

It's up to us, in or out of the EU, to create that. We do that by the people we send to Westminster, and they have to be better than the present incumbents.

So you statement makes no sense, but then that's nothing new.
First line assumes none of us have ever read your posts before

Second line completely agree with

Third line is you to a tee sadly.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:57 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:First line assumes none of us have ever read your posts before

Second line completely agree with

Third line is you to a tee sadly.
I have never claimed that leaving the EU makes Britain a better place, only that we are better off out of it.
Then it's up to us. If we keep selecting arseholes as MPs they could make a mess of the country, Jeremy Corbyn frightens me, but that doesn't make leaving the EU wrong.
I said in an earlier post leaving the EU, and making this country better, are two different issues. But I dont believe you can have the second without the first.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun May 26, 2019 12:58 pm

Why?

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun May 26, 2019 12:59 pm

Greenmile wrote:Yes, he’s allowed his racist opinions. Are we allowed to have an opinion on Boris?
Of course you are, and just like Boris you might be wrong too.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Greenmile » Sun May 26, 2019 1:05 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Of course you are, and just like Boris you might be wrong too.
If you don’t think he’s a racist then just say so, and explain why you think that in the face of the evidence of all the racist things he’s said.

Why bang on about whether or not he’s allowed an opinion like he’s being denied the right to express all the opinions quoted by nil d above? (many of which come from national publications) It just makes you look like a snowflake without an actual argument beyond “Waaaah. The nasty left wingers are calling Boris names. It’s not fair”

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Juxtaposition » Sun May 26, 2019 1:17 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Is Boris not allowed an opinion on anything?

Even if he his wrong?

Why the **** do you people seem to think that if you're criticised for saying something it means you're not allowed to say it? It honestly makes you look like ******* babies crying because someone criticised you. Grow the **** up and stop coming out with this dumb horseshit.
Or sod off to your safe space where criticism isn't allowed.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Damo » Sun May 26, 2019 1:28 pm

With what has gone on lately, I think Boris is the only man who could unite the country again.

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Re: The next Tory Leader..

Post by Damo » Sun May 26, 2019 1:29 pm

Juxtaposition wrote:Why the **** do you people seem to think that if you're criticised for saying something it means you're not allowed to say it? It honestly makes you look like ******* babies crying because someone criticised you. Grow the **** up and stop coming out with this dumb horseshit.
Or sod off to your safe space where criticism isn't allowed.
Calm down Charlie. You are not the only person on this message board with an opinion

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