Another Offshore/Onshore Tax Scrounging Employer at it?

[South West Claret.]

Panorama at 8.30 tonight may shed more light on the subject.

ED: Link to this mornings news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48481320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Paul Waine]

Panorama at 8.30 tonight may shed more light on the subject.

ED: Link to this mornings news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48481320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Romanian business man, according to what I've read on BBC.

Is he resident in UK for tax purposes?

[Lancasterclaret]

Romanian business man, somehow being the only person to take advantage of UK tax law?

Come off it Paul, you are better than that.

[mdd2]

Well at least he paid 20% VaT on his eating out unless the toad was able to claim that back as a visitor to the UK.

[mdd2]

Well at least he paid 20% VaT on his eating out unless the toad was able to claim that back as a visitor to the UK.

[Suratclaret]

Well at least he paid 20% VaT on his eating out unless the toad was able to claim that back as a visitor to the UK.

Usually when attempting to claim VAT back when leaving the UK as a visitor, you are normally expected to show any purchases. Not sure if the the HMRC official would take kindly to someone vomiting on his desk!

[Dy1geo]

What this highlights is the complexity of U.K. Tax Law.

On a moral point of view I cannot condone him and put him in the same bracket as Jimmy Carr, Chris Moyles and Gary Barlow who have all used “loopholes” to lower their tax bills.

If he has done anything illegal he should be punished but if he has acted within the law he shouldn’t. He has taken the advice of his advisers who ultimately will be held to account for their advice.

When people say “we should tax the rich more” they should remember that the more they want to raise the more the “rich” will use legal loopholes within the law to lower their tax bills.

[Paul Waine]

Romanian business man, somehow being the only person to take advantage of UK tax law?

Come off it Paul, you are better than that.

Hi Lancs, are we going off track a little here?

The guy is Romanian. I don't see where the BBC establish that he has earned any money that is taxable in the UK. Isn't that a key part of any Panorama revelation that a "foreign born person evades UK tax" programme.

I'm 100% for everyone paying the taxes due. I'm also 100% for all loop holes being closed.

And, I'm 100% for media reporting accurately on tax laws and people complying with these tax laws.

It's got to be good for everyone, including our politicians, to understand our tax laws.

I thought you know an accountant. Surely you didn't miss the point I was making?

[claret2018]

Similarly I managed to avoid taxes to the point where I paid £0 in Romania last year

[aggi]

The suggestions do seem to be that he is resident here.

The "this was a loan, not a distribution/salary, etc" technique is tried and tested (and very often fails nowadays). HMRC are going after umbrella companies that do the same in a big way at the moment https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... ance-bills" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously if it turned out that he forged a signature that will be looked on rather dimly, the Swiss aren't keen on anything that damages their financial reputation.

[Steddyman]

And this is why all the rich conservatives are voting for Brexit and at the same time trying to con the working class into believing they are taking back control. The EU are trying to close these tax loopholes and the rich don't like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HDFegpX5gI&t=1s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thatdberight]

We would have to see how this panned out over multiple years. On the face of it, clearly disguised remuneration. Clearly should fall foul of the GAAR (introduced by the coalition government).

But, if the loan was a loan and is repaid and interest is paid and tax is paid on the distributions - there's much less to see here.

As the guy from the Tax Justice Network rightly says, "It all points to this being a manoeuvre to cheat the tax man...there seems to be prima facie evidence that this is tax fraud and it should be investigated." Investigation. That's what it needs.

Forgery - that's a different matter and quite probably criminal law would be involved.

[Imploding Turtle]

What this highlights is the complexity of U.K. Tax Law.

On a moral point of view I cannot condone him and put him in the same bracket as Jimmy Carr, Chris Moyles and Gary Barlow who have all used “loopholes” to lower their tax bills.

If he has done anything illegal he should be punished but if he has acted within the law he shouldn’t. He has taken the advice of his advisers who ultimately will be held to account for their advice.

When people say “we should tax the rich more” they should remember that the more they want to raise the more the “rich” will use legal loopholes within the law to lower their tax bills.

Then get rid of the ******* loopholes.

[aggi]

Then get rid of the ******* loopholes.

Easy to say, not so easy to do.

The "loopholes" tend to be there for a reason and their use is generally OK. Someone will then exploit them in an unexpected way and you have to try and close the loophole whilst still keeping the benefit for those who are using it correctly.

They've attempted it with the General Anti Avoidance Rules which looks more at the substance and intention of a transaction but it still isn't easy.

[AndrewJB]

Then get rid of the ******* loopholes.

No. Get rid of the super rich. Not harm them, but limit personal and family wealth to no more than the tens of millions. Then there are no loopholes for people to jump through. A ceiling puts a stop to that, and set high enough it will never be something 99% of the population will ever need to worry about.

[thatdberight]

Easy to say...

That's enough for anyone who likes proposing easy solutions.

[Imploding Turtle]

That's enough for anyone who likes proposing easy solutions.

So because i don't have a tax code ready to go for implementation i'm not allowed to say I want my government to close the loopholes that the rich are paying them to create?

I never claimed that doing it would be easy. I don't know why you people seem to think that that's a valid criticism of what I said. There are a lot fo policies that I (and i imagine a lot that you want too) that are not easy to implement. Does that mean you don't want them? No, of ******* course not.

[thatdberight]

I don't know why you people seem to think that that's a valid criticism of what I said.

Whoever "you people" are. I do like the new, whinier IT with added victim complex. It's an even funnier spin on your concocted outrage at everything.

But you're right. I feel shame that I didn't come up with a more in-depth, complete response to such a comprehensive proposal for taxation review as, "get rid of the ******* loopholes."

Don't bother. Unless it's for your own amusement. Which it probably is.

[Imploding Turtle]

Whoever "you people" are. I do like the new, whinier IT with added victim complex. It's an even funnier spin on your concocted outrage at everything.

But you're right. I feel shame that I didn't come up with a more in-depth, complete response to such a comprehensive proposal for taxation review as, "get rid of the ******* loopholes."

Don't bother. Unless it's for your own amusement. Which it probably is.

What kind of idiot thinks that "get rid of the ******* loopholes" is intended to be a comprehensive proposal for taxation review? Oh.

[Dy1geo]

Loopholes are a unintended consequence of our tax laws in that a tax law intended to collect revenue unintentionally turns into a loophole.
Tax breaks were given for people to invest in the British Film industry a worthy aim to promote British Films and the industry in the U.K. then along came the loophole allow losses etc reducing tax.
A minor one now if you call it that way is allowing 100% capital allowances for electric cars. This can allow a rich individual to buy a £100k Tesla for his business and this amount would be knocked his/her income for the year if they earned more than that amount. Hence a tax break designed to promote electric car use is benefiting the rich.

The point I am making is that it is not so simple as closing loopholes we have to have a full look at the tax handbook and you have to face up to a fact that “lowering” the tax rates and simplifying the tax system for the higher earners may lead to a higher tax take allowing for tax cuts to the lowest earners.

[Paul Waine]

Loopholes are a unintended consequence of our tax laws in that a tax law intended to collect revenue unintentionally turns into a loophole.
Tax breaks were given for people to invest in the British Film industry a worthy aim to promote British Films and the industry in the U.K. then along came the loophole allow losses etc reducing tax.
A minor one now if you call it that way is allowing 100% capital allowances for electric cars. This can allow a rich individual to buy a £100k Tesla for his business and this amount would be knocked his/her income for the year if they earned more than that amount. Hence a tax break designed to promote electric car use is benefiting the rich.

The point I am making is that it is not so simple as closing loopholes we have to have a full look at the tax handbook and you have to face up to a fact that “lowering” the tax rates and simplifying the tax system for the higher earners may lead to a higher tax take allowing for tax cuts to the lowest earners.

I put it down to poor drafting of the laws - and then slow/very slow response from HMRC when the loop hole is exploited. I'd heard about "employee benefits trusts" in the early 2000s - and "loans" rather than income. I thought they were a tax dodge then and not something I'd ever get involved with. It would have been pretty easy to re-draft the tax rules to get rid of them before they got to the scale they were 10 years later.

Film investment schemes were similar, could have been stopped before they really got started.

[Paul Waine]

Romanian business man, somehow being the only person to take advantage of UK tax law?

Come off it Paul, you are better than that.

Hi Lancs, I seem to need to repeat my earlier response - I can't find your response to it.

Hi Lancs, are we going off track a little here?

The guy is Romanian. I don't see where the BBC establish that he has earned any money that is taxable in the UK. Isn't that a key part of any Panorama revelation that a "foreign born person evades UK tax" programme.

I'm 100% for everyone paying the taxes due. I'm also 100% for all loop holes being closed.

And, I'm 100% for media reporting accurately on tax laws and people complying with these tax laws.

It's got to be good for everyone, including our politicians, to understand our tax laws.

I thought you know an accountant. Surely you didn't miss the point I was making?

[Pimlico_Claret]

It would suddenly become very easy to close loopholes if the 'peasants' were able to access them easily.