Unions at work

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cricketfieldclarets
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Unions at work

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:30 am

Anyone a member or been a member and have any reasons they wouldn’t join up?

Never had the opportunity (or reason) in the past. Was at the last place almost 13 years. But new place has a huge union and I haven’t yet joined. Just had the email asking me to join. Probably will be be interested to hear from others.

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:39 am

Are unions worth joining under a Tory government?

They don't give two hoots about them.

Ask colleagues how the union and your employers work together.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:45 am

They will protect your rights within the Workplace.as in Disputes you may encounter with an Employer.....or employee..or to working condition. IMO Join.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:50 am

I was a union member when I worked in Manufacturing... it is a low cost insurance and helps job security and as Tim says your rights within the workplace....
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Colburn_Claret » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:59 am

Always join a union if possible.
The legal advice alone is worthwhile.
It's amazing what representation offers you, most employers HR departments and managements are pretty lax when it comes to the law. They could think they have you bang to rights but a good shop steward/area manager will just make them look stupid.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by buzzclarets79 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:10 pm

Don’t see why you wouldn’t join a union if you can.
Being a member of the RMT myself I can safely say my terms and conditions at work are down to the union.
A decent hard working union is a powerful tool.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Hipper » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:13 pm

I worked on the railways in the 1970s, clerical work, and union membership was not compulsory at that time. I think also at that time you could opt out of the automatic deduction that was given to the Labour Party.

I had a choice between the TSSA and NUR. I chose the TSSA. Whilst I had no call to use them and although there were rail strikes when I was there, the TSSA was a moderate union and we weren't called out, so I went in to work.

Reading the union literature was quite enlightening as of course they are not all about strikes and negotiating wages. Some had there own private hospitals; there was legal assistance as has been mentioned.

I suggest you check out the union and speak to your union rep to see what he or she is like. Most of them are good hearted people.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Pearcey » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:14 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Are unions worth joining under a Tory government?

They don't give two hoots about them.

Ask colleagues how the union and your employers work together.
Only a problem if you work for the government. I’m in Unite and work in the Railway industry. Our union is strong but not militant. We get excellent pay rises and numerous jobs have been saved. You can’t let the big corporations have their way all the time.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by basil6345789 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:24 pm

Better being in than out. I was a Student Union Rep then a member of 2 unions over the years. It gives something g of a voice even if the union is not strong.
The EU has done nothing on rights - on it's watch we've had Lowest Common Denominator wages and pay structures wrecked. More unions would have provided some resistance to this.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:25 pm

tim_noone wrote:They will protect your rights within the Workplace.as in Disputes you may encounter with an Employer.....or employee..or to working condition. IMO Join.
not my experience - went from working a night shift (8pm - 4 am) with 1 weekend off in 3 - to working a pattern of hours that changed every day ranging from 1pm starts through to 8 am finishes and 1 weekend off in 8) and a massive change in job description forced through - Union did nothing and I mean nothing except argue the benefit (what benefit?) - even when it turned out the local rep had receievd a promotion to get it through.

turned my back on them ever since and never had cause to regret - my dad was a rep and my uncle a regional dispute specialist (different unions).

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Herts Clarets » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:35 pm

Prior to me joining my present company, a large proportion of the workforce were royally shafted by the union - I think it is Unison. They signed away a number of benefits, including premiums for overtime hours, sickness benefits and a few other bits in favour of a one off cash payment. That payment is long gone, however the loss of benefits is permanent. There is lot of ill feeling towards the union from the workforce and very, very few are still members - I think from a group of 70 you can count them on one hand and still have fingers to spare......

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:44 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:Prior to me joining my present company, a large proportion of the workforce were royally shafted by the union - I think it is Unison. They signed away a number of benefits, including premiums for overtime hours, sickness benefits and a few other bits in favour of a one off cash payment. That payment is long gone, however the loss of benefits is permanent. There is lot of ill feeling towards the union from the workforce and very, very few are still members - I think from a group of 70 you can count them on one hand and still have fingers to spare......
same ones that did for me and my colleagues

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:Prior to me joining my present company, a large proportion of the workforce were royally shafted by the union - I think it is Unison. They signed away a number of benefits, including premiums for overtime hours, sickness benefits and a few other bits in favour of a one off cash payment. That payment is long gone, however the loss of benefits is permanent. There is lot of ill feeling towards the union from the workforce and very, very few are still members - I think from a group of 70 you can count them on one hand and still have fingers to spare......
When you say "they" you mean the union and it's Members? So they signed a way a number of Benefits....for a cash payment ? I'm sure a ballot would have been held on the outcome.. I'm assuming they had the option.they chose the latter.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:51 pm

Chester Perry wrote:not my experience - went from working a night shift (8pm - 4 am) with 1 weekend off in 3 - to working a pattern of hours that changed every day ranging from 1pm starts through to 8 am finishes and 1 weekend off in 8) and a massive change in job description forced through - Union did nothing and I mean nothing except argue the benefit (what benefit?) - even when it turned out the local rep had receievd a promotion to get it through.

turned my back on them ever since and never had cause to regret - my dad was a rep and my uncle a regional dispute specialist (different unions).
Grim reading CP.but surely a ballot by Union members must have voted in favour for a change in working conditions?

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Herts Clarets » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:59 pm

From experience, they are not very good. Certainly the local reps.

I am in the process of trying to renegotiate contracts regarding their working hours. It will benefit both the business and the employees.

Business will be more efficient, as it will allow better use of assets - vehicles, employees and will allow us to expand our service offering

It will allow me to better align resources with demand - longer working days when we are busiest, shorter days or time off during quiet periods. As we deal with mainly schools, colleges and local authority businesses, there is a significant fluctuation in demand across the year.

Employees who's main gripe is that they are underpaid, will see a pay increase of approaching 20% and bring their earnings very much in line with the industry average in this regions. The reason they are not well paid is that they work relatively short hours and as a result of the former union shafting, refuse to work non contractual additional hours. In addition to this, when we start to offer a confidential waste collection service to customers, we are in a position to regrade the roles, which will add another 5% onto their pay.

It has taken some months to even get to the point where the union will agree to us consulting with the workforce regarding these changes, never mind actually starting the consultation and making any changes.

As someone who has spent all their working life in the private sector, the bureaucracy and timescales of local government takes some getting used to.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Herts Clarets » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:01 pm

tim_noone wrote:When you say "they" you mean the union and it's Members? So they signed a way a number of Benefits....for a cash payment ? I'm sure a ballot would have been held on the outcome.. I'm assuming they had the option.they chose the latter.
As I said it was quite some time before I joined the company, but I believe they did have a choice. They were advised not to accept the union proposal by the head of service back then, but chose to ignore this and follow the union. As I said, the short term payment is long gone and anyone who started after this date has both the reduced terms and missed the cash payment.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:05 pm

tim_noone wrote:Grim reading CP.but surely a ballot by Union members must have voted in favour for a change in working conditions?
That was the procedure we expected but we were told it was not going to happen and we had no choice - we were told that changes in job descriptions did not require agreeing to either, they were just being enforced as part of our original contracts - this was from the regional rep not the local one that had been promoted. Oh and it was in the NHS so you know a well established union prescence and history etc.

Needless to say I left and have never looked back but others couldn't and are still there

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Siddo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:07 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Always join a union if possible.
The legal advice alone is worthwhile.
It's amazing what representation offers you, most employers HR departments and managements are pretty lax when it comes to the law. They could think they have you bang to rights but a good shop steward/area manager will just make them look stupid.
Have to disagree with your comment on HR managers being lax on employment law. In my varied HR career I have dealt with many union reps over redundancies, factory closures, TUPE transfers and on the plus side, large recruitment campaigns. I had sole control and full responsibility for a fair, legal outcome, and trying to achieve consensus iin difficult situations where closure was a real possibility if talks weren't successful.
A lot of the union reps and district officials were really good to work with. Realistic, knowledgeable, pragmatic and knew the law , which made win/win situations a likely outcome. Some of the shop stewards were belligerent and didn't really know what they were doing and that didn't help their members situation at all.
I think the decision to join or not depends on how good your employer is.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Blackrod » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:08 pm

I once could have joined one when starting out in work. I didn’t bother and never would. I’m not a big fan. Historically if I didn’t like a job and the terms or if they terms changed I left. I could see the benefits if working in a Victorian mill or something but not nowadays. If you don’t like a job have some gumption and do something about it yourself instead of crying to someone else. This is only my opinion of course and doubt if it is a popular one on here.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by NL Claret » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:22 pm

Was in Unison when I worked for British Gas and the local rep did get me a few quid after a bonus dispute but when the rationalisation/ job cuts started they disappeared and were no use.

Was in UCU when I worked in education. Again, when it came to redundancy they excelled at uselessness. Was advised not to take out an unfair dismissal claim , that was the last advice I got from them and sorted it out myself. Personally think they are a waste of money.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:24 pm

Blackrod wrote:I once could have joined one when starting out in work. I didn’t bother and never would. I’m not a big fan. Historically if I didn’t like a job and the terms or if they terms changed I left. I could see the benefits if working in a Victorian mill or something but not nowadays. If you don’t like a job have some gumption and do something about it yourself instead of crying to someone else. This is only my opinion of course and doubt if it is a popular one on here.
I don't think having someone to represent you relates to crying or Lack of gumption IMO it's an insurance policy to your rights.new car..new house..new job.protect yourself.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by bfcmik » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:13 pm

I was a member of a union for all my working life. Sometimes working in places where the Union was recognised other times where it wasn't.

They were like car insurance - something that was there to provide help and support when things went wrong. I see other comments that spoke about the Union not doing anything. Sadly, sometimes the choices available are stark, you can choose between bad, worse or awful, no matter how vocal or powerful the Union may be. They have to follow the Law of the land and that has changed to be much less favourable to employees and, therefore, their Unions.

Shop Stewards are chosen by the workers not the Union and, often, it is the loudmouth blaggers who get selected rather than the decent, thoughtful and pragmatic candidate.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by bfcmik » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:16 pm

Now I have retired I get free life membership of the GMB which entitles me to legal help, a stay at a holiday village to recuperate from an illness, cheap life and funeral insurances as well as other services provided by the Union to members
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Local cricketer » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:56 pm

Do you want Len Mcluskys number?

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Re: Unions at work

Post by dougcollins » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Just bear in mind the all the 'workers' rights' you currently enjoy were fought for by Unions.

I work with people who think employment laws were historical gifts from beneficent employers.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by fatboy47 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:15 pm

Not for me.....outlived their usefulness....the reps locally are useless freeloaders...barely employable berks and simpletons...

I can get far more employment law info out of Google than I've ever got from these vacant stiffs.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:23 pm

tim_noone wrote:They will protect your rights within the Workplace.as in Disputes you may encounter with an Employer.....or employee..or to working condition. IMO Join.
Correct, but many people make the mistake of believing they will also protect you if you are crap at your job and they won't. They'll quite rightly work with the employer to get you out.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:31 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Correct, but many people make the mistake of believing they will also protect you if you are crap at your job and they won't. They'll quite rightly work with the employer to get you out.
People being crap at their jobs is pretty widespread in this country be it workers or management from what I've seen.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by AndyClaret » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:40 pm

I'm a union member, do I always agree with our unions policies, no. But the work place representation plus legal help is worth it.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:48 pm

AndyClaret wrote:I'm a union member, do I always agree with our unions policies, no. But the work place representation plus legal help is worth it.
The ayes have it..... :D

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Re: Unions at work

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 pm

Never been in one and nor have many people in my family from what I can recall.

It's never really appealed to me and as suggested by someone else, if I don't like a job I'll leave and if I don't like the look of what's on offer I don't take the job in the first place.

I know people who've had family relationships break down over strikes etc, where they wouldn't go on strike and ended up being labelled a scab.

Each to their own ultimately, if you feel it gives you added security then go for it.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by atlantalad » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:38 am

Early teen years, pre working life, were extremely formative in making me detest unions. My father operated a small plant hire company, a couple of JCB's and a wagon with drivers, him being one. Anyway he had a couple of his machines on hire at a building site in 1972 at the time of the UCATT building workers strike. The union set up pickets around building sites. He, nor his two employees, were in any union so worked on the site, along with many "lumpers." Next day he returned to the machines to find all the windows put through. Bastered pickets and union members. My father still had to pay his men, pay for the repair of the windows, lost few days hire because of down time and support his 5 kids.

F..k unions. Worked all my life without them. Negotiated my own terms and, like was mentioned above if I did not think I was getting a good deal I found a better deal at another company. Now retired....and still detest unions, there for themselves not the honest working man.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:01 am

I have always been a member of a union and would strongly recommended anyone to be a member. There are statistics to show that being in a union gives you better and safer working conditions than not joining. Free trade unions are a basic human right.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by LeadBelly » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:23 am

I'm a union supporter. I joined one at my first temporary job, when I was in a poor negotiating position/naive, and received good support from that union to get better pay & conditions.
Subsequently became a member of various unions for most of my working life although I was increasingly in a position to negotiate/fend for myself as my career progressed. I became a lifelong member of the union I was in (GMB) when I retired.
I don't like the politics/politicking of some of the big unions but generally they do help people who are less able to fend for themselves in the workplace. As mentioned in some other posts, sometimes there are also decent perks re insurance deals/legal cover etc.

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Re: Unions at work

Post by IanMcL » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:24 am

Join.

Strength in unity.
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Re: Unions at work

Post by Croydon Claret » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:26 pm

Our union called a strike once and the only person who defied it and went into work was the union rep :D

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Re: Unions at work

Post by tim_noone » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:Our union called a strike once and the only person who defied it and went into work was the union rep :D
:lol:

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Re: Unions at work

Post by Bosscat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:20 pm

Croydon Claret wrote:Our union called a strike once and the only person who defied it and went into work was the union rep :D
Theres always one :lol:

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