England

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: England

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:17 pm

:lol:
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Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:18 pm

Come on!!! Still 3 mins left here. If we take a few more unnecessary risks with no potential reward for 3 more minutes there’s more goals in this...

Rick_Muller
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Re: England

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:19 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol:
P!ss off Turtle, this means something to someone...

:D
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SalisburyClaret
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Re: England

Post by SalisburyClaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:19 pm

Playing out from the back - risky with no benefits whatsoever

Hoofing it upfield - the most successful method of defending ever invented
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Vino blanco
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Re: England

Post by Vino blanco » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:19 pm

That's it Gareth, tell them to keep f.cking about with the ball in our own box, it's the future I tell you. Gary Neville says we have to continue playing this way, I'm sure that's what he tolld the Spanish side he managed so disasterously for half a season. Ferkin joke the lot of 'em.

Imploding Turtle
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Re: England

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:21 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:Playing out from the back - risky with no benefits whatsoever

Hoofing it upfield - the most successful method of defending ever invented

I'm not a football coach but i'd like to think that if I was, and my team was a goal down, i'd want to look more towards using the most successful methods of attacking rather than defending. It's not often that i'd want to defend my opponents' 2-1 lead.

Murger
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Re: England

Post by Murger » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:22 pm

Absolutely dire. For all the good work Southgate has done, he has no plan B.

theroyaldyche
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Re: England

Post by theroyaldyche » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:22 pm

Thats Porto getting smashed to pieces tonight

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:22 pm

Playing out from the back is fine. I’ve absolutely no problem with it and the best sides do it very well. Our disallowed goal came from Walker playing with some composure.

Our centre backs on the other hand aren’t very good with the ball at their feet. So fine, still play from the back but don’t take unnecessary risks. If no one is showing for the ball play it more direct.

Pickford’s had a decent game because he’s been handed some absolutely horrible back passes today and generally dealt with them well.

bumba
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Re: England

Post by bumba » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:23 pm

FactualFrank wrote:CL final + Liverpool players no doubt still pi$$ed. We were never going to start with our best side.
U mean like Wijnaldum an Van Dijk who have lasted 120 minutes?
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Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:24 pm

I wonder if John Stones drives home from work on the wrong side of the road in the hope that he gets home 30 seconds earlier.

Woodleyclaret
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Re: England

Post by Woodleyclaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:26 pm

Playing 20yrds forward and 50 back.Henderson not fit and poor on the ball.Rice and Stones awful
Why did Walker and Childwell not bomb down the wing and why was Sterling not played out on the flanks were he could do damage.
Southgates tactics very questionable and as someone else said Martin Tylers summarising is shite

Spijed
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Re: England

Post by Spijed » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:28 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I wonder if John Stones drives home from work on the wrong side of the road in the hope that he gets home 30 seconds earlier.
As the point's been made, he is no longer a youngster yet he makes mistakes almost every game. Even Tarkowski & Mee are no that error prone.

bobinho
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Re: England

Post by bobinho » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:28 pm

I’ll be honest, I didn’t see a Dutch victory here...

dougcollins
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Re: England

Post by dougcollins » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:29 pm

The whole back four looked dreadful. Never rated that lump Maguire, Chilwell ffs.

bobinho
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Re: England

Post by bobinho » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:29 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:Thats Porto getting smashed to pieces tonight
Absolutely. No Russians there so the England “lads” will be out in style. :roll:
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SalisburyClaret
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Re: England

Post by SalisburyClaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:29 pm

Southgate - just do the basics - don’t play out from the back with donkeys, play midfielders in midfield and stop trying to play like Spain in 2010

Imploding Turtle
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Re: England

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:29 pm

bobinho wrote:Absolutely. No Russians there so the England “lads” will be out in style. :roll:

They'll do the country proud, as they always do.
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Murger
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Re: England

Post by Murger » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:31 pm

Spijed wrote:As the point's been made, he is no longer a youngster yet he makes mistakes almost every game. Even Tarkowski & Mee are no that error prone.
Wrong. Tarks always makes mistakes. He thinks he's Cruyff when he's not.

BurnleyFC
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Re: England

Post by BurnleyFC » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:33 pm

Considering Garuff wasn’t a centre half who played it out from the back, why the **** does he insist on his centre halves doing so?

Steve1956
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Re: England

Post by Steve1956 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:36 pm

After that abysmal performance I'd sack Southgate and bring Fat Sam back,it's the way forward.
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Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Not sure why Southgate is getting the stick. The players on the pitch made the totally unnecessary mistakes tonight. Unforced errors duly punished.

MDWat
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Re: England

Post by MDWat » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:41 pm

Murger wrote:Wrong. Tarks always makes mistakes. He thinks he's Cruyff when he's not.
He doesn’t always make mistakes. He’s been caught doing the stupid pirouette Stones got done with once, away at West Ham.

Madness how many are critical of our best defender and our most prized asset.

boatshed bill
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Re: England

Post by boatshed bill » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:43 pm

Not much a manager can do about unforced errors once the players are on the pitch. Could have second thoughts about the underperforming players for the next competition though.

Wokingclaret
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Re: England

Post by Wokingclaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:43 pm

Keane should have been in tonight against his ex manager who we've made look good

Murger
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Re: England

Post by Murger » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:44 pm

MDWat wrote:He doesn’t always make mistakes. He’s been caught doing the stupid pirouette Stones got done with once, away at West Ham.

Madness how many are critical of our best defender and our most prized asset.
He's certainly done it in home games.

MDWat
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Re: England

Post by MDWat » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:46 pm

We haven’t conceded from any mistake he’s made like that home. Mee has been a bigger culprit at home.

Socrates
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Re: England

Post by Socrates » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:46 pm

Great breakdown from Neville, Redknapp and Carragher post match.

The second goal wasn’t about playing out from the back. It was about Stones making an idiotic mistake.

Stones had turned away from the man and was facing his keeper. He could have popped it back, gone wide for the return and we could have kept on playing football. Instead he turned back into his man in an effort to take him on despite being the last man.

That’s just stupid.

Even the third goal - Barkley obviously drops a rick but what is Stones doing giving him the ball there? Who can Barkley give the ball too, and he’s clearly got a man on him.

This isn’t a playing out thing. These are poor, poor individual errors.

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:47 pm

Murger wrote:He's certainly done it in home games.
Tarkowski has made mistakes, without a doubt. Although I can’t recall any mistakes he’s made on the ball leading directly to a goal - I’m sure there must be one though.

He mixes it up and probably thinks he’s a better ball player than he is, but he’s nowhere near as error prone as John Stones.

Socrates
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Re: England

Post by Socrates » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:49 pm

John Stones is 25 now.

Barkley is 26 this year.

They’ve played over 400 games between them.

They aren’t the players we thought they were going to be. They still play like they’re teenagers.
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SGr
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Re: England

Post by SGr » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:50 pm

If England use this as a lesson then we can benefit in the long run. Things like this are simple really: James Maddison is better at football than Ross Barkley, so should therefore be playing instead of him; clearing the ball is better than trying to dribble pass 3 players, so therefore the ball should be cleared.

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:51 pm

Socrates wrote:Great breakdown from Neville, Redknapp and Carragher post match.

The second goal wasn’t about playing out from the back. It was about Stones making an idiotic mistake.

Stones had turned away from the man and was facing his keeper. He could have popped it back, gone wide for the return and we could have kept on playing football. Instead he turned back into his man in an effort to take him on despite being the last man.

That’s just stupid.

Even the third goal - Barkley obviously drops a rick but what is Stones doing giving him the ball there? Who can Barkley give the ball too, and he’s clearly got a man on him.

This isn’t a playing out thing. These are poor, poor individual errors.
Couldn’t agree more. The concept of playing the ball out and using the keeper as an extra outfield player is perfectly sound - as proven by this season’s Premier League winners. Taking high risk low (if any) reward decisions for 120 minutes is going to lead to trouble. If the better option is to play the ball back to the keeper or hit the ball long then do it.

Vegas Claret
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Re: England

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:51 pm

and Foden

FCBurnley
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Re: England

Post by FCBurnley » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:51 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:P!ss off Turtle, this means something to someone...

:D
He is a Jock. This is his big moment

Socrates
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Re: England

Post by Socrates » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:51 pm

SGr wrote:If England use this as a lesson then we can benefit in the long run. Things like this are simple really: James Maddison is better at football than Ross Barkley, so should therefore be playing instead of him; clearing the ball is better than trying to dribble pass 3 players, so therefore the ball should be cleared.
It’s not about clearing it.

He can drop it back to Pickford, go wide for the return, we recycle the ball and keep playing football.

It’s about our inability to recycle positions, move into space and to give the man on the ball options. That, and Stones being a bloody idiot.

bumba
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Re: England

Post by bumba » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:52 pm

Stones at fault for all 3 goals.

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable watching him playing for us he's terrible, prime example of a player rating himself higher than he is.

FCBurnley
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Re: England

Post by FCBurnley » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:52 pm

We should have brought Kane on

Socrates
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Re: England

Post by Socrates » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:52 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Couldn’t agree more. The concept of playing the ball out and using the keeper as an extra outfield player is perfectly sound - as proven by this season’s Premier League winners. Taking high risk low (if any) reward decisions for 120 minutes is going to lead to trouble. If the better option is to play the ball back to the keeper or hit the ball long then do it.
Exactly.

Pickford is in the side because he’s great with his feet. Apparently.

So give him the ball there.

It was a shocking decision from Stones. It’s not a playing out thing.

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

bumba wrote:Stones at fault for all 3 goals.

I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable watching him playing for us he's terrible, prime example of a player rating himself higher than he is.
I think the bigger problem is that he is expected to be better by now. 4 years ago we could excuse the mistakes because he was young and was going to develop. He hasn’t. The even bigger problem is that England don’t really have much better in that position.

Bordeauxclaret
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Re: England

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:55 pm

Poor from Stones for all three.

Spijed
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Re: England

Post by Spijed » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:58 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Tarkowski has made mistakes, without a doubt. Although I can’t recall any mistakes he’s made on the ball leading directly to a goal - I’m sure there must be one though.
.
West Ham away last season is the only one I can think of.

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:59 pm

Socrates wrote:Exactly.

Pickford is in the side because he’s great with his feet. Apparently.

So give him the ball there.

It was a shocking decision from Stones. It’s not a playing out thing.
There’s not much between Pickford and Heaton generally. I’d say that Heaton is a slightly better goalkeeper in the traditional sense of the word - but Pickford is definitely more comfortable with the ball at either feet and dealing with poor back passes - which he had plenty to deal with tonight. He’s also probably not as good with his feet as he thinks but if he makes a poor pass the ball goes out for a throw in at the halfway line - not really an issue.

There’s a strong argument to make that at England’s level the keeper’s ability to act as the additional outfield player is worth more than a marginal gain in shot stopping.

bumba
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Re: England

Post by bumba » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I think the bigger problem is that he is expected to be better by now. 4 years ago we could excuse the mistakes because he was young and was going to develop. He hasn’t. The even bigger problem is that England don’t really have much better in that position.
We've seen what a run of games at Burnley and at Everton did for Michael Keane, maybe bias but I honestly don't believe Holland score those 3 we Keane in there.
But to be fair I don't see Holland scoring those 3 we Steve Mcnulty in there either

Rileybobs
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Re: England

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:01 pm

Spijed wrote:West Ham away last season is the only one I can think of.
Good shout!! He got into a silly personal duel with Arnautovic and ended up on the losing side!

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Re: England

Post by elwaclaret » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:04 pm

Rovers mate just said “You lot have two better centre halves and two better keepers...
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Re: England

Post by wembley94 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:07 pm

John Stones just been named Hollands man of the match
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Dyched
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Re: England

Post by Dyched » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:13 pm

Bit of over reacting on this thread
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Vino blanco
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Re: England

Post by Vino blanco » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

I'd love to see Sean Dyche as a pundit on this game, talking about England's defensive cock ups.

Tricky Trevor
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Re: England

Post by Tricky Trevor » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:47 pm

AndyClaret wrote:So talk me through this playing out from the back nonsense ?
So Pickford rolls it out to Stones or Maguire. They look around for a team mate but they’ve all gone into hiding. They then have a major decision, launch it or pass back to Pickford. They have been ordered not to launch it but they don’t want to give it back to Pickford. Under this extreme pressure they decide to carry the ball forward. High pressing sides are immediately all over them and, as has been seen tonight, this leads to goals. The pros love it, the public hate it but what do we know. Viva espana.

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Re: England

Post by THEWELLERNUT70 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:00 am

As poor of a display as you will ever see from a centre half at this level. Stones was at fault for all three goals and could have cost England a further two. He was never close to his man for any corner throughout the duration of the game, he's poor in the air and lacks any aggression and nouse for a centre half. His distribution was at best woeful tonight as was his decision making. He's not a third as good as he thinks he is.and hes simply not a very good centre half

You can get away with it at City when you're coasting 5-0 against Burnley, but you will constantly get murdered at this level. The thing is as well he'll never ever learn

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