Boris the Bullet Dodger

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elwaclaret
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by elwaclaret » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:57 pm

I do question the motivation behind the case... it is an oft used route to fame and fortune. I’m not convinced he’s not just a chancer.

Hopefully it will make parliament sit up a be a bit more sparing us some of the outright bull they feed us, none the less.

... anyone who can’t see Robinson is a chancer clearly hasn’t delved too deeply. He’s a back alley con artist, only with the help of modern tech.
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by beddie » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:01 pm

This guy who brought the action against Boris was given very bad advice, there wasn't a cat in hells chance that he would succeed. In legal terms " there was no prospect of success ".

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Damo » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:02 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I said you are ****. "Poo" would be the unfiltered version of what i said. That's not name calling. If i said you were bad at something would that be name-calling?





Finally an answer, and as expected it is indeed a false equivalence.

Robinson scams his donors by requesting money for his cause and then buying himself nice things with it. How else could he afford his nice big, expensive house?

In what way has Stuchbury similarly scammed his donors?

In what way is this guy prosecuting Johnson similarly scamming his donors?

The truth? As far as you are aware, they aren't. And you know that. There's a reason you didn't set your equivalence test at how the money was being spent and instead set it as the fact that the money was being raised at all. Which means you're saying that ANY person or organisation who crowdfunds is equal to Tommy Robinson. I'll remember that when Poppy Day comes along because apparently, according to you, the Royal British Legion and Tommy Robinson are the same.
This comment doesn't counter 90% of my really short answer. As per usual.
And your comparison with a charity is absolutely tragic.
Still, I got the reply I wanted and we have another thread in which you have proved yourself to be a massive hypocrite.
Have a good weekend Charlie

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:04 pm

Damo wrote:This comment doesn't counter 90% of my really short answer. As per usual.
And your comparison with a charity is absolutely tragic.
Still, I got the reply I wanted and we have another thread in which you have proved yourself to be a massive hypocrite.
Have a good weekend Charlie

Utterly divorced from reality, aren't you? Get help.

And it's not my comparison, it's your comparison.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:07 pm

beddie wrote:This guy who brought the action against Boris was given very bad advice, there wasn't a cat in hells chance that he would succeed. In legal terms " there was no prospect of success ".
Got his 5mins of fame though and some paid for extras, so he will consider it a win of sorts.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Got his 5mins of fame though and some paid for extras, so he will consider it a win of sorts.
I wonder how many death threats he gets too.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I wonder how many death threats he gets too.
Goes with the territory nowadays, you'd think he would know about that.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:25 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Goes with the territory nowadays, you'd think he would know about that.
And you don't see any kind of civic honour in doing something you believe in, for the benefit of all of us, in the face of threats to your life? Instead all you chose to focus on is his 15 minutes of fame as if he was definitely only seeking attention?

Believe it or not, sidney, but not everyone wants fame. Some people actually do things because they think it's the right thing to do despite the dubious fame and attention it brings them. Not always, mind. But sometimes.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Rowls » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:26 pm

The only thing that has dodged a bullet is our democracy.

Rightly thrown out of court.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:32 pm

The right to lie is indeed an important one in a democracy. But lying in public office should be illegal. And if a court decides you win an election based on a lie, a bald-faced, provable lie, then the election should be voided and re-run.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And you don't see any kind of civic honour in doing something you believe in, for the benefit of all of us, in the face of threats to your life? Instead all you chose to focus on is his 15 minutes of fame as if he was definitely only seeking attention?

Believe it or not, sidney, but not everyone wants fame. Some people actually do things because they think it's the right thing to do despite the dubious fame and attention it brings them. Not always, mind. But sometimes.
He was given poor advice, it was thrown right out of court and there are suggestions he's misused some of the money that was handed over for the prosecution.

Yeah I do happen to think that 5 mins of fame was rattling around in the back of his head when he started it, I don't believe it was all about doing what you're saying is the right thing.
The right thing is defined differently for different people in regards to many things, so narrowing down this attempt at prosecution as being the right thing is difficult.
I personally don't think trying to drag Johnson into court was the right thing.

Will he get death threats?
Probably.

Does he deserve them?
Not at all.

Like I said, it goes with the territory, but that's because of how we as a country deal with that sort of behaviour online.

As for the whole civic honour in the face of death threats etc, I've been in circumstances where I've faced a serious threat to my life when doing the right thing, so online threats wouldn't overly bother me if I was doing something I believed in, especially as there are plenty of keyboard warriors out there.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The right to lie is indeed an important one in a democracy. But lying in public office should be illegal. And if a court decides you win an election based on a lie, a bald-faced, provable lie, then the election should be voided and re-run.
Ace, so when are we dragging Blair to court, along with his mate, over the Iraq war?
Apparently we can't drag Osbourne into court from a comment I read on here the other day which is a shame.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:59 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Ace, so when are we dragging Blair to court, along with his mate, over the Iraq war?
Apparently we can't drag Osbourne into court from a comment I read on here the other day which is a shame.

Are you under what would have to be a spectacularly dumb illusion that I would oppose seeing Blair on trial for the Iraq war?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:09 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Are you under what would have to be a spectacularly dumb illusion that I would oppose seeing Blair on trial for the Iraq war?
Nope, I just asked when is it happening if we are going to punish politicians for lying on the job, or those in a public office.

We might as well start with the biggest fibbers.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by LongsideFacingUp » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:This is why people like you are ****. You'll throw out accusations and innuendo about people, and then when someone asks you to explain your reasoning you can't, so you deflect. Or sometimes you just flat out ignore the question.
Projecting much? :lol:
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by bfcmik » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:02 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Nothing, if the same standard was held against people like Corbyn when he promised to wipe off student debts 2 months before an election then immediately retracted after the result, or if it was Osborne for his "emergency budget" etc etc. I'd be all for it.
But Corbyn didn't win the election nor get to be part of the government. Therefore it would have made no difference if he had promised to give every person in the land a million pounds. He would have still been unable to get any bill through Parliament. Now what did the Tories promise us at that election? How many of those things have they delivered? Would you even know if they had with the media's attention being 100% on Brexit or the lack of it!

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by bobinho » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:All for that.

Now what do we do if a referendum result was based on lies?

I mean, surely we'd have to re-run it or cancel it altogether surely?
FFS, can you just bore off?

Seriously, you must even be getting on your OWN tits?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:31 pm

bobinho wrote:FFS, can you just bore off?

Seriously, you must even be getting on your OWN tits?
Seriously, why are you reading a thread if its going to annoy you?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:36 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Seriously, why are you reading a thread if its going to annoy you?

So that he can whine like a bitchy snowflake getting offended by everything.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by bobinho » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:47 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Seriously, why are you reading a thread if its going to annoy you?
You are right Lancaster.... I'm off to read a football thread. I like football threads better. They are populated by people who like football (Burnley in particular) so I should really just stick to them. I think i'll do that. :roll:

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:49 pm

bobinho wrote:You are right Lancaster.... I'm off to read a football thread. I like football threads better. They are populated by people who like football (Burnley in particular) so I should really just stick to them. I think i'll do that. :roll:
Narrator: "And no one believed he would stick to football threads."

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Damo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Seriously, why are you reading a thread if its going to annoy you?
To be fair. The amount of political threads started lately is beyond a joke.
There are about 6 knocking about discussing trump. A good few regarding Brexit.
You could have 1 trump thread and 1 Brexit thread.
The OP for most of them seems determined to have political threads banned from here, along with his multiple accounts

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:22 pm

When buffoon politicians become 'popular', it is time to shoot them or the masses.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:25 pm

Damo wrote:To be fair. The amount of political threads started lately is beyond a joke.
There are about 6 knocking about discussing trump. A good few regarding Brexit.
You could have 1 trump thread and 1 Brexit thread.
The OP for most of them seems determined to have political threads banned from here, along with his multiple accounts

Oh good. It's a time of the calendar where there are no Burnley games, so it's time for another round of Let's ******* Fail To Understand Why The Ratio Of Football Treads To Politics Threads Is Higher Than Usual. And our first contestant is Damo from Burnley, probably.

Tell us about more about yourself, Damo from Burnley, probably.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by taio » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:29 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Oh good. It's a time of the calendar where there are no Burnley games, so it's time for another round of Let's ******* Fail To Understand Why The Ratio Of Football Treads To Politics Threads Is Higher Than Usual. And our first contestant is Damo from Burnley, probably.

Tell us about more about yourself, Damo from Burnley, probably.
The above is completely irrelevant as far as you're concerned. It doesn't matter what day, week, or month it is. Self awareness...zero.
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Damo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:32 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Oh good. It's a time of the calendar where there are no Burnley games, so it's time for another round of Let's ******* Fail To Understand Why The Ratio Of Football Treads To Politics Threads Is Higher Than Usual. And our first contestant is Damo from Burnley, probably.

Tell us about more about yourself, Damo from Burnley, probably.
I'm not from Burnley probably.
The rest of your post was just triggered nonsense

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:39 pm

taio wrote:The above is completely irrelevant as far as you're concerned. It doesn't matter what day, week, or month it is. Self awareness...zero.
Where did I suggest that i gave a **** about what time of the calendar it was? It's the morons who don't seem to understand that when Burnley aren't playing that there are fewer football threads being created, therefore the non-football threads have a greater instance.

Your post is literally irrelevant, yet you're accusing me of making an irrelevant point. Tell me more about self-awareness.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:40 pm

Damo wrote:I'm not from Burnley probably.
The rest of your post was just triggered nonsense
If that's the case then you are evidently triggered by people talking about subjects you don't want to talk about. You remind me of a child crying because the other kids don't want to play a game that you want to play.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by taio » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Where did I suggest that i gave a **** about what time of the calendar it was? It's the morons who don't seem to understand that when Burnley aren't playing that there are fewer football threads being created, therefore the non-football threads have a greater instance.

Your post is literally irrelevant, yet you're accusing me of making an irrelevant point. Tell me more about self-awareness.
Shut it.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:45 pm

taio wrote:Shut it.

:lol:

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The right to lie is indeed an important one in a democracy. But lying in public office should be illegal. And if a court decides you win an election based on a lie, a bald-faced, provable lie, then the election should be voided and re-run.
Just for clarity, would the court have to prove that more than one and a quarter million votes were given to Brexit solely because of that one specific lie, or is it the much lower threshhold that if anyone on the Brexit side can be proven to have told any lie the whole thing would be re-run?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:24 pm

Can any of you who oppose prosecuting politicians for lying please present your counter argument to the argument in favour of prosecuting them that Marcus Ball makes here.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/stat ... 9751227393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Damo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:35 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Can any of you who oppose prosecuting politicians for lying please present your counter argument to the argument in favour of prosecuting them that Marcus Ball makes here.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/stat ... 9751227393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Would you be happy for Nick Boles to be prosecuted for this massive porky?
IMG_20190608_213141.jpg
IMG_20190608_213141.jpg (234.85 KiB) Viewed 1359 times
Theres a link attached to that post that states that the "most people who voted Brexit" is actually a large percentage of about 300 people

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:39 pm

Damo wrote:Would you be happy for Nick Boles to be prosecuted for this massive porky?
IMG_20190608_213141.jpg
Theres a link attached to that post that states that the "most people who voted Brexit" is actually a large percentage of about 300 people
Well, since he can show where he's getting his information from it's probably pretty fair to say that he can reasonably defend himself with "i wasn't lying, i was just wrong". But if after being corrected, and it's provable that he knew he was wrong, and he then repeated his false statement THEN yes, prosecute the lying ****.

Why do you people seem to think the rest of us are hypocritical or would hold a double standard when you present a non-defence in this manner? We are not like you. Stop assuming that just because you're a hypocritical ****** that the rest of us would be hypocritical wankers.

My opinion that MPs should be prosecuted for lying is not partisan. Your opposition to it might be, but my support isn't.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Damo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:48 pm

Why do you have to be so aggressive?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:08 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Can any of you who oppose prosecuting politicians for lying please present your counter argument to the argument in favour of prosecuting them that Marcus Ball makes here.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/stat ... 9751227393" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A policeman fabricated evidence that caused a man he was directly protecting to lose his job and his reputation. You think that's a fair comparison with Boris?

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by elwaclaret » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:13 pm

The bus was idiotic... too idiotic to have been taken seriously by anybody not an idiot.

How were Bill and Ben in a position to even suggest it would change? Neither were in the elected positions to be taken seriously... it was a farce that did both of them personally more harm than good not to mention Brexit, even as it pulled up on the tarmac I cringed as a Brexit supporter.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:20 pm

bobinho wrote:You are right Lancaster.... I'm off to read a football thread. I like football threads better. They are populated by people who like football (Burnley in particular) so I should really just stick to them. I think i'll do that. :roll:
Fine

Good luck finding one that isn't dull as dishwater as its the post-season and we are still in the prem, so no one has got anything to complain about!

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:39 pm

dsr wrote:A policeman fabricated evidence that caused a man he was directly protecting to lose his job and his reputation. You think that's a fair comparison with Boris?
Lying is comparable to other examples of lying. Yes. An MP lying to the public is comparable to a police officer lying to a court, or a CEO lying to share holders.

Explain to me why it should be OK to lie to gain political power, but not OK to lie to gain economic power? And when you're explaining that consider what that fact implies about the priorities of the capitalist state when it comes to what is more important: democracy or money.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Greenmile » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 pm

elwaclaret wrote:The bus was idiotic... too idiotic to have been taken seriously by anybody not an idiot.
There’s lots of idiots about though, sadly.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:58 pm

Greenmile wrote:There’s lots of idiots about though, sadly.

They don't like name calling and would prefer it if you called them Leave voters.
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by android » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:13 pm

But only Remain voters were bothered by the bus.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:48 pm

android wrote:But only Remain voters were bothered by the bus.
So you're saying that leave voters were fine with the lie. Whether they knew it was a lie or not.

Now you're just making our argument for us.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by LongsideFacingUp » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:02 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Why do you people seem to think the rest of us are hypocritical or would hold a double standard when you present a non-defence in this manner? We are not like you. Stop assuming that just because you're a hypocritical ****** that the rest of us would be hypocritical wankers.
Projecting again.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:45 am

So leave voters are idiots for allegedly believing the bus, but remain voters aren't idiots for believing the guff from Osborne and co?

Ok...
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by android » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:So you're saying that leave voters were fine with the lie. Whether they knew it was a lie or not.

Now you're just making our argument for us.
Ok I will play and give you a long answer.

I'm not even sure, what exactly the lie is supposed to be. I have seen it claimed that the "lets fund the NHS instead" part is a lie or a broken promise. To think that you have to confuse the leave campaign with the government. "We will seize control of the government on 24 June 2016 and stop paying money to the EU immediately and give it all to the NHS" would have been a lie. You don't need to be anywhere near as clever as you to think that so I assume you are not in that camp.

I assume it's the £350m figure before the rebate that bothers you. Was it right to quote the gross figure rather than one of the 2 net figures (after the rebate or after money we get back from the EU). No (although the rebate is subject to separate provisions and there has and would be pressure to eliminate it so it's a stretch to call it a "lie") - it was a bit of naughty politics and the Remain campaign fell into the trap. Quoting the gross figure got the Remain campaign talking a lot about the amount of money we pay to the EU. All the various figures were bandied about but, as others have pointed out, you also don't need to be very clever to realise that there is not likely to be a single person in the country who thought "I'm totally fine with us paying £190m (whatever figure you are happy with) but if it gets above say £275m that worries me and if it was as high as £350m that's it I'm voting Leave."

I would compare it to the Balls Miliband claim before the 2015 election about a "tax cut for millionaires" in reference to the govt reversing part of Labour's "temporary" increase in the highest income tax rate from 50% to 45%. There are a lot of earners over £150k who are not millionaires and there are a lot of millionaires who do not earn over £150k. A more accurate statement would have been "an increase in the long term highest rate of tax from 40% (before the temporary increase) to 45%, which affects all earners over £150k and some of them are millionaires." No doubt you would call the Balls Miliband clam a lie. I would just call it a bit of mischief that people saw through.
These 3 users liked this post: Bosscat RingoMcCartney AndyClaret

RingoMcCartney
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:32 am

Imploding Turtle reminds me of a bloke they interviewed on the radio this week.

He was a spokesman for the "Stop Trump" campaign. He was speaking at the demo in trafalgar square, at the very time that President Trump was actually meeting the Queen, Charles, Camellia and the rest of the dignitaries, officials and politicians.

It appeared to be lost on the poor fella that his futile campaign to stop the President had totally failed, and that ship had already sailed.

Likewise, Turtle. The lonely bore in pub whining on about an offside decision that went against his team, weeks after the ref blew the final whistle!
This user liked this post: AndyClaret

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:47 am

Self awareness. Love it.

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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:19 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:The lonely bore in pub whining on about an offside decision that went against his team, weeks after the ref blew the final whistle!
Remind you of anybody else, Ringo?

Imploding Turtle
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Re: Boris the Bullet Dodger

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:31 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:So leave voters are idiots for allegedly believing the bus, but remain voters aren't idiots for believing the guff from Osborne and co?

Ok...
What guff? Be specific.

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