New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
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New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
As of the 1st June, new rules have been brought in.
Crucially, the big change is that a handball does not have to be seen as deliberate and a handball will be awarded if the arm is moved to make the body bigger or is seen as an ‘unnatural position.
Deliberate handball remains an offenceThe following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
The ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm.
A player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
.The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger.
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm).
Now, we can successfully, soak a lot of pressure up , just look at the possession figures of certain games we've actually won. However, with the new rules coming in from August I'm worried that attack minded teams, will benefit, disproportionately, from situations arising that were previously seen as "No intention" or "accidental" so went unpunished with no penalty awarded.
I'm concerned that when, previously, we've had a brilliant seige mentality, and it's been like the Alamo. We will be punished by unscrupulous forwards , who will engineer a handball to secure a penalty.
Crucially, the big change is that a handball does not have to be seen as deliberate and a handball will be awarded if the arm is moved to make the body bigger or is seen as an ‘unnatural position.
Deliberate handball remains an offenceThe following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
The ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm.
A player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
.The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger.
The ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm).
Now, we can successfully, soak a lot of pressure up , just look at the possession figures of certain games we've actually won. However, with the new rules coming in from August I'm worried that attack minded teams, will benefit, disproportionately, from situations arising that were previously seen as "No intention" or "accidental" so went unpunished with no penalty awarded.
I'm concerned that when, previously, we've had a brilliant seige mentality, and it's been like the Alamo. We will be punished by unscrupulous forwards , who will engineer a handball to secure a penalty.
Last edited by RingoMcCartney on Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be for Burnley?
It is always going to benefit those teams that consistently get the ball into the opposition penalty area.
In other words Not Burnley.
In other words Not Burnley.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be for Burnley?
I’d agree, I think the new rules will affect us far more than most as we spend long periods defending and blocking so the chance of one of these ridiculous new handballs being given will be much higher.
The way to avoid this is to keep the ball more or attack more - that’s not really our style so I think we will suffer
The way to avoid this is to keep the ball more or attack more - that’s not really our style so I think we will suffer
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Just get your hands tucked away. Trippier has been doing it a long time. It’s just a new technique for them to brain train themselves to do. FBs have got away with blocking crosses for far too long and they know exactly what they are doing.
I don’t remember that many incidents that caused us palpitations last year. Mee’s against Cardiff was the most worrying and that was a different situation. Having headed(nosed) it onto his own arm.
I don’t remember that many incidents that caused us palpitations last year. Mee’s against Cardiff was the most worrying and that was a different situation. Having headed(nosed) it onto his own arm.
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Dyche was asked during the CL Final on 5 Live about this. He said the defence has worked on body shape for blocking for a very long time now.
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
To be fair do you not think that all teams will be looking at this closely for next season?
I also think that these new rules will benefit Burnley and harm teams - like Palace - who rely heavily on penalties for their goals. Wasn't it something like 25% of their goals penalties?
With VAR you are going to see ALL teams getting a lot more penalties and this should even up the score on that front. Palace stayed up last year because they got pens. That advantage will disappear next season.
Furthermore, we get the ball in the box a lot from deep - probably more chance of the arm being in an unnatural position and of defenders fouling to limit our aerial threat.
I also think that these new rules will benefit Burnley and harm teams - like Palace - who rely heavily on penalties for their goals. Wasn't it something like 25% of their goals penalties?
With VAR you are going to see ALL teams getting a lot more penalties and this should even up the score on that front. Palace stayed up last year because they got pens. That advantage will disappear next season.
Furthermore, we get the ball in the box a lot from deep - probably more chance of the arm being in an unnatural position and of defenders fouling to limit our aerial threat.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Are we sure yet that the FIFA interpretation used in the European Cups and the Womens World Cup will be enforced as rigorously in the Prem though?
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
You are spot on with Palace, 10 pens scored and they scored a total of 41 goals.Foulthrow wrote:I also think that these new rules will benefit Burnley and harm teams - like Palace - who rely heavily on penalties for their goals. Wasn't it something like 25% of their goals penalties?
I don't have a list of penalties that weren't scored (missed or saved) but the final totals of goals scored from penalties in the Premier League by club were:
10: Crystal Palace
9: Manchester United
7: Bournemouth, Liverpool
5: Brighton, Chelsea, Leicester, West Ham
4: Arsenal, Southampton, Tottenham, Wolves
3: Cardiff, Manchester City
2: Burnley, Everton. Fulham
1: Huddersfield, Newcastle, Watford
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
You're right, all teams will be looking at it and once players have adjusted to it following a bedding in period there may be a level playing field, for want of a better phrase.Foulthrow wrote:To be fair do you not think that all teams will be looking at this closely for next season?
I also think that these new rules will benefit Burnley and harm teams - like Palace - who rely heavily on penalties for their goals. Wasn't it something like 25% of their goals penalties?
With VAR you are going to see ALL teams getting a lot more penalties and this should even up the score on that front. Palace stayed up last year because they got pens. That advantage will disappear next season.
Furthermore, we get the ball in the box a lot from deep - probably more chance of the arm being in an unnatural position and of defenders fouling to limit our aerial threat.
You could look at Palace and say, if they got a lot of penalties under the old rules, in the new environment, i suppose, they could be awarded even more!
I like your positivity though. Fair play.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
It won't help as much as it might. VAR will (unless the officials change their attitude) give even more penalties to teams who dive, because the slightest of contact is routinely given as a foul to players who dive; but that same contact or worse will not be given (or even looked at) for a player who doesn't dive.Foulthrow wrote:To be fair do you not think that all teams will be looking at this closely for next season?
I also think that these new rules will benefit Burnley and harm teams - like Palace - who rely heavily on penalties for their goals. Wasn't it something like 25% of their goals penalties?
With VAR you are going to see ALL teams getting a lot more penalties and this should even up the score on that front. Palace stayed up last year because they got pens. That advantage will disappear next season.
Furthermore, we get the ball in the box a lot from deep - probably more chance of the arm being in an unnatural position and of defenders fouling to limit our aerial threat.
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Really interesting stat that. People who claim it's our style of play that limits pens yet City only got one more. But the amount that Palace get is ridiculous.ClaretTony wrote:You are spot on with Palace, 10 pens scored and they scored a total of 41 goals.
I don't have a list of penalties that weren't scored (missed or saved) but the final totals of goals scored from penalties in the Premier League by club were:
10: Crystal Palace
9: Manchester United
7: Bournemouth, Liverpool
5: Brighton, Chelsea, Leicester, West Ham
4: Arsenal, Southampton, Tottenham, Wolves
3: Cardiff, Manchester City
2: Burnley, Everton. Fulham
1: Huddersfield, Newcastle, Watford
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
out of all the things I'm concerned about this isn't one of them. We are going to sign 3 quality players this summer and get into the top 4 and comfortably finish about Man Utd and Chelsea
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
I agree but I also think we will go down (and already do) when we are fouled in the box. We never got these fouls though and I suspect (hope!) that we will with VAR! (Long at Arsenal being a case in point).dsr wrote:It won't help as much as it might. VAR will (unless the officials change their attitude) give even more penalties to teams who dive, because the slightest of contact is routinely given as a foul to players who dive; but that same contact or worse will not be given (or even looked at) for a player who doesn't dive.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Just looked at the two previous seasons in the Premier League for the scored penalties
2016/17
7: Bournemouth, Liverpool, Manchester City
6: Burnley, Tottenham
5: Sunderland
4: Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Stoke
3: Everton, Hull, Manchester United, Southampton, Swansea, West Ham
2: Chelsea, Middlesbrough, Watford
1: West Brom
2017/18:
8: Crystal Palace
6: Manchester City
5: Brighton, Everton, Leicester
4: Arsenal
3: Bournemouth, Chelsea, Southampton, Watford
2: Huddersfield, Liverpool, Tottenham, West Ham
1: Manchester United, Swansea, West Brom
0: Burnley
2016/17
7: Bournemouth, Liverpool, Manchester City
6: Burnley, Tottenham
5: Sunderland
4: Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Stoke
3: Everton, Hull, Manchester United, Southampton, Swansea, West Ham
2: Chelsea, Middlesbrough, Watford
1: West Brom
2017/18:
8: Crystal Palace
6: Manchester City
5: Brighton, Everton, Leicester
4: Arsenal
3: Bournemouth, Chelsea, Southampton, Watford
2: Huddersfield, Liverpool, Tottenham, West Ham
1: Manchester United, Swansea, West Brom
0: Burnley
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
[quote="Foulthrow] But the amount that Palace get is ridiculous.[/quote]
It helps having Zaha, who runs like Bambi on ice, and Townsend dribbling in the area.
It helps having Zaha, who runs like Bambi on ice, and Townsend dribbling in the area.
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Those stats blow a lot of my conspiracy theories out of the water. They probably also show that VAR is being brought in to solve a problem that doesn't exist!!!ClaretTony wrote:Just looked at the two previous seasons in the Premier League for the scored penalties
2016/17
7: Bournemouth, Liverpool, Manchester City
6: Burnley, Tottenham
5: Sunderland
4: Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Stoke
3: Everton, Hull, Manchester United, Southampton, Swansea, West Ham
2: Chelsea, Middlesbrough, Watford
1: West Brom
2017/18:
8: Crystal Palace
6: Manchester City
5: Brighton, Everton, Leicester
4: Arsenal
3: Bournemouth, Chelsea, Southampton, Watford
2: Huddersfield, Liverpool, Tottenham, West Ham
1: Manchester United, Swansea, West Brom
0: Burnley
Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
It helps having Zaha, who runs like Bambi on ice, and Townsend dribbling in the area.[/quote][/quote]Tricky Trevor wrote:[quote="Foulthrow] But the amount that Palace get is ridiculous.
But City have even more players like this and - at a guess - spend a lot more time in the box, yet didn't get them last year.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Palace have got a hell of a lot in the last two seasons and it is no surprise to see Bournemouth up there given their ability to go down. Dyche is still talking about the one recently in the 3-1 win, was it Josh King? Absolutely ridiculous.Foulthrow wrote:Those stats blow a lot of my conspiracy theories out of the water. They probably also show that VAR is being brought in to solve a problem that doesn't exist!!!
I don't have the missed numbers but I seem to remember Palace missing quite a few in 2017/18.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Found these stats for penalties missed
2016/17
2: Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Manchester City
1: Everton, Leicester, Stoke, Tottenham
2017/18
2: Everton
1: Brighton, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester United, Stoke, Watford, West Ham
2018/19
2: Manchester United
1: Bournemouth, Brighton, Cardiff, Crystal Palace, Everton, Manchester City, Newcastle, Southampton
2016/17
2: Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Manchester City
1: Everton, Leicester, Stoke, Tottenham
2017/18
2: Everton
1: Brighton, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester United, Stoke, Watford, West Ham
2018/19
2: Manchester United
1: Bournemouth, Brighton, Cardiff, Crystal Palace, Everton, Manchester City, Newcastle, Southampton
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
Palace have players that take you on at pace.
Whereas City try and pass it round you.
Whereas City try and pass it round you.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
City usually pass it round you into the net!Quickenthetempo wrote:Palace have players that take you on at pace.
Whereas City try and pass it round you.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
I think it benefits us.
As long as the rule had a grey area it will always be used to the advantage of the bigger teams. Now it is black and white, or should be, then Burnley are likely to get more penalties.
We dont get the benefit that often when in our own area, so although we might concede a couple more, hopefully we will be in credit come the end of the season.
As long as the rule had a grey area it will always be used to the advantage of the bigger teams. Now it is black and white, or should be, then Burnley are likely to get more penalties.
We dont get the benefit that often when in our own area, so although we might concede a couple more, hopefully we will be in credit come the end of the season.
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
The new handball rule may lead to more penalties but VAR is unlikely to
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Re: New handball rule. Could it be bad news for Burnley?
It should be bad news for Koscielny and Arsenal next time they play us, but I suppose the ref will say it wasn't deliberate next time he knocks one into our goal...
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