Another murderer released

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# 51
Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:32 am

dsr wrote:Personally, I'm not confident that he should rot in jail. On balance of probabilities, since the experts tell me so, I would say he is unlikely to deliberately murder any more children or impale them on railings. Obviously it's hard to put a figure on these probabilities - but wild guess, say 0.5% chance? One chance in 200 that he will viciously murder a child?

Those aren't odds I'm happy with. If 200 child murderers are released and just one of them kills someone, then the system has failed. Child killers, especially multiple child killers, shouldn't get a second chance.



At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, this is why you would probably be **** at a job that requires you to be impartial and not give in to your own emotions. Such as that of being someone who decides whether someone is considered reformed enough to re-enter society.

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Blackrod
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Blackrod » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:35 am

Desperate stuff bringing up Islam. It has nothing to do wit someone wanting a punishment to be a suitable punishment for a heanous crime.

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dsr
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby dsr » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:36 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, this is why you would probably be **** at a job that requires you to be impartial and not give in to your own emotions. Such as that of being someone who decides whether someone is considered reformed enough to re-enter society.

What would you consider the acceptable probability that this man will kill another child, before you release him?

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Dy1geo
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Dy1geo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:36 am

Thomas Mair was given a Whole if Life tariff which means he will as the Judge stated mean in reality he will spend the rest of his life behind bars and perhaps only be released on “humanitarian” grounds to die at home. The 2003 criminal Justice act brought in Whole of Life tariffs for Murders of a terrorist nature and multiple child killers.

Anyone who doesn’t support the death penalty for murderers who fall into this category have a right to think that way and I respect that view it’s just that I have the opposite view.

My point was about walking the streets again being free which this guy is, if as as principle you believe he shouldn’t “rot in jail” you should then on principle be against Whole of Life tariffs which the likes of the Lee Rigby killers have, Ian Huntley has and Thomas Mair has.

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 am

dsr wrote:What would you consider the acceptable probability that this man will kill another child, before you release him?



At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, I have no answer to that because that is a ridiculous question to which you know there is no possible answer.

But, at least you're learning that probabilities are important. Perhaps in future when scientists use them to express how certain they are about a global climactic phenomenon that is going to kill millions more people than this guy you'll remember how important probabilities are when it comes to a subject where they are actually measurable on an objective basis.

Or are you only interested in probabilities when you can show us all how good a person you are by wanting a child killer locked up forever based on your own emotions, at the expense of principles by which we have collectively decided are more important than any one case? Damo has a word for that. Although i don't think he'll use it on you, he only uses it on people he dislikes or disagrees with.

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Pearcey
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Pearcey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am

Jesus Christ IT!! Maybe one day you’ll make a thread not about you!
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AlargeClaret
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:49 am

But is he a remainer or leaver ?

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Pearcey
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Pearcey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:51 am

A thread about the release of a multiple child killer and you morons use it to bicker about politics. You’re a despicable bunch at times.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:53 am

Pearcey wrote:Jesus Christ IT!! Maybe one day you’ll make a thread not about you!



At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, I think next week i'm going to go with "At the risk of being accused of making this thread about me simply for the crime of expressing my opinion...".
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:56 am

Pearcey wrote:A thread about the release of a multiple child killer and you morons use it to bicker about politics. You’re a despicable bunch at times.


In fairness there’s only one poster “ moron”I can think of who can’t help himself turning seemingly any thread into his own pseudo political 6th form student level festival of self congratulatory horsesh1t . He seriously needs to come down from his bedroom imo

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:00 am

Murger wrote:Wow. You really are a tedious, repetitive bore.


At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, you might be right. But i was having a frank conversation about the subject matter with dsr and others. We don't respect each other but we were getting our points across to each other in a relatively civil manner until an absolute prick of a person decided to come in and contribute by accusing one of us of making the thread about them, and then another one came in and called them a bore.

I don't have a ******* clue why you people seem to think that someone else having a conversation with others on a message board is the equivalent of making a thread all about them. It's genuinely about as stupid as accusing someone of virtue-signalling for expressing their opinion. In fact it's even more ******* stupid because not only was it false int he first place, but it actually instigates the very ******* thing you were complaining about when that person you're accusing defends themselves. m

Now the thread is about me, because you ******* idiots decided to make it about me and not about what I was saying.

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Pearcey
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Pearcey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:00 am

AlargeClaret wrote:In fairness there’s only one poster “ moron”I can think of who can’t help himself turning seemingly any thread into his own pseudo political 6th form student level festival of self congratulatory horsesh1t . He seriously needs to come down from his bedroom imo

There’s plenty of morons on this board. I just don’t like threads like this turning into a slagging match. It’s an incredibly sad story.

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:16 am

Pearcey wrote:There’s plenty of morons on this board. I just don’t like threads like this turning into a slagging match. It’s an incredibly sad story.


At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, what the **** do you expect to happen when you come into a thread and start accusing people who hold different opinions to one another of trying to make the thread all about them?

Are you under the dumb impression that this message board is not supposed to be a place where people express differing views? Are you expecting us all to agree on everything, or something? Why is it that you singled me out for your puerile, bullshit accusation and not anyone i was having a conversation with?

When you accused me of making this thread all about me i had posted in it 4 times. dsr, for example, had posted in it 3 times (edit: dy1geo, 4 times). If dsr had posted in it one more time would he have been eligible for your stupid accusation, or is it something you only reserve for those who it's fashionable to brigade against on here? And if you don't think brigading against someone is a thing that happens on here, just look at how quickly two other pieces of **** popped up to back you up with your dumb, thread-derailing bullshit.

If you want to turn this message board into a safe space for you and your opinions, and where we all nosh each other off about how agreeable we all are then by all means, you carry the **** on, because you're going the right way about it. Me though? I like to think that we can disagree with each other, and defend our opinions. I think (or I thought until recently) that we are at least mature enough to at least disagree with one another.
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Pearcey
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Pearcey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:26 am

Hence why I said ‘there’s plenty of morons’. I know it’s not just you that likes to mock other people’s opinions as you’re on the receiving end the majority of the time. Threads like this will induce emotions in people and some will blurt out things they maybe don’t mean. You, and others are very quick to jump down their throats.

Of course I understand people will have different opinions on a messageboard. Maybe it’s how some of you put them across that makes it annoying for other users. I’ll await the next round of insults with great anticipation.

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:32 am

Pearcey wrote:Hence why I said ‘there’s plenty of morons’. I know it’s not just you that likes to mock other people’s opinions as you’re on the receiving end the majority of the time. Threads like this will induce emotions in people and some will blurt out things they maybe don’t mean. You, and others are very quick to jump down their throats.

Of course I understand people will have different opinions on a messageboard. Maybe it’s how some of you put them across that makes it annoying for other users. I’ll await the next round of insults with great anticipation.


Well. ok then. But you singled me out with a common bullshit accusation and that ****** me off. If i over-reacted a little bit then I apologise without accepting any responsibility because it's entirely your fault, and for which you deserve to be mocked. :)

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Pearcey » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:34 am

:-D. Fair one.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby AlargeClaret » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am

Pearcey wrote:There’s plenty of morons on this board. I just don’t like threads like this turning into a slagging match. It’s an incredibly sad story.


I wasn’t referring to you mate but the resident thread killer

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Spijed » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 am

Some posters on here. All very amusing! :)
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:01 am

Spijed wrote:Some posters on here. All very amusing! :)



spijed do you personally think this guy should be released ?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby willsclarets » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:23 am

dsr wrote:Personally, I'm not confident that he should rot in jail. On balance of probabilities, since the experts tell me so, I would say he is unlikely to deliberately murder any more children or impale them on railings. Obviously it's hard to put a figure on these probabilities - but wild guess, say 0.5% chance? One chance in 200 that he will viciously murder a child?

Those aren't odds I'm happy with. If 200 child murderers are released and just one of them kills someone, then the system has failed. Child killers, especially multiple child killers, shouldn't get a second chance.


You're right about one thing here, that is a wild guess.

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Spijed
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Spijed » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:26 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:spijed do you personally think this guy should be released ?


If he's done his time, not seen as a danger to the public, then yes.

Btw, what's your question got to do with the funny image above?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:28 am

Spijed wrote:If he's done his time, not seen as a danger to the public, then yes.

Btw, what's your question got to do with the funny image above?



Just wondering, it is a fair effort in wanting to find something funny about a topic like this.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Quickenthetempo » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:43 am

Would anyone on here be happy for this chap to move in next door to them?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:44 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Would anyone on here be happy for this chap to move in next door to them?



At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, I wouldn't give a ****.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby dsr » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:58 pm

Would anybody here who has a crying baby, be happy to have this chap move in next door?

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Lord Beamish
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Lord Beamish » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:04 pm

dsr wrote:Would anybody here who has a crying baby, be happy to have this chap move in next door?

I wouldn’t ask him to babysit.
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby willsclarets » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:33 pm

dsr wrote:Would anybody here who has a crying baby, be happy to have this chap move in next door?


It's not a Pavlovian response trigger, is it. No more than if someone murdered a post man for ringing the doorbell too many times. You wouldn't specifically use therapy to cure their tolerance of bell ringing. It's more than likely, as you probably already know, a mental breakdown resulting in pathological behaviour that culminated in a terrible crime. Professionals will continually assess the root causes of that behaviour which is rarely the eventual trigger.

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Blackrod
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Blackrod » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, I wouldn't give a ****.


Because you don’t have kids. 2 disturbing characters as neighbours.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:46 pm

Blackrod wrote:Because you don’t have kids. 2 disturbing characters as neighbours.


At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, i completely agree with you that I am comparable to this child murderer.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby BennyD » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 pm

Im sure the bleeding hearts will be on here when he kills again, saying how he is misunderstood, how society had failed him and why were shouldn't string the ba5tard up if we are a civilised society. However, I'm sure they would sing a different tune if it was their kids being impaled and murdered.
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Rileybobs
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Rileybobs » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:43 pm

BennyD wrote:Im sure the bleeding hearts will be on here when he kills again, saying how he is misunderstood, how society had failed him and why were shouldn't string the ba5tard up if we are a civilised society. However, I'm sure they would sing a different tune if it was their kids being impaled and murdered.


Ah, that old chestnut. A couple of months ago some scumbags broke into my mum and dads house and stole priceless jewellery and heirlooms that had been passed down from my late grandparents. Personally I’d be happy if they had been mowed down by a truck as they were running away. At the same time I can acknowledge that they don’t deserve to die for what they have done.

The victim of a crime is the last person you’d go to for rational thought about what constitutes a fair punishment.
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Imploding Turtle
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:27 pm

BennyD wrote:Im sure the bleeding hearts will be on here when he kills again, saying how he is misunderstood, how society had failed him and why were shouldn't string the ba5tard up if we are a civilised society. However, I'm sure they would sing a different tune if it was their kids being impaled and murdered.



At the risk of being accused of virtue-signalling by Damo, it was really only a matter of time before liberals were preemptively blamed for future hypothetical murders.

These people claim to be lovers of all these liberties we enjoy yet it's odd how much they hate those who believe in the political theories that brought them.

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Martinc265
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Martinc265 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:42 pm

In my own humble opinion and that is what it is, multiple murderers and all child killers should never be released, ever. They have lost all rights in my eyes for good. As for revenge I can only say this, if they had done that to my children or grandchildren and they got released, I am afraid they would leave this earth by the time they had taken 3 steps of freedom

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Greenmile » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:40 pm

Martinc265 wrote:In my own humble opinion and that is what it is, multiple murderers and all child killers should never be released, ever. They have lost all rights in my eyes for good. As for revenge I can only say this, if they had done that to my children or grandchildren and they got released, I am afraid they would leave this earth by the time they had taken 3 steps of freedom


Would you then expect to be never released, ever? Would you lose all rights in your own eyes for good?

Or are revenge killings ok?

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boatshed bill
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:54 pm

Forget revenge. But some people are not worth keeping alive.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Martinc265 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:06 pm

Greenmile wrote:Would you then expect to be never released, ever? Would you lose all rights in your own eyes for good?

Or are revenge killings ok?



Stupid reply. If anyone and I don’t care who it was, did that to any child of mine, I would be more than happy to rid a child killer off this earth to never be able to harm another child again. Can’t make it clearer.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby bfcjg » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:13 pm

If the law dealt with such evil creatures as the vast majority wanted revenge wouldn't be required.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Rileybobs » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:14 pm

bfcjg wrote:If the law dealt with such evil creatures as the vast majority wanted revenge wouldn't be required.


How do the vast majority want the law to deal with evil creatures?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby bfcjg » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:16 pm

Rileybobs wrote:How do the vast majority want the law to deal with evil creatures?

Put them in a room with a tape of Imploding Turtle droaning on, even killers would vote to bring back hanging.
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Steve1956 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:42 pm

bfcjg wrote:Put them in a room with a tape of Imploding Turtle droaning on, even killers would vote to bring back hanging.
:lol:
:lol:

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby dsr » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:39 pm

willsclarets wrote:It's not a Pavlovian response trigger, is it. No more than if someone murdered a post man for ringing the doorbell too many times. You wouldn't specifically use therapy to cure their tolerance of bell ringing. It's more than likely, as you probably already know, a mental breakdown resulting in pathological behaviour that culminated in a terrible crime. Professionals will continually assess the root causes of that behaviour which is rarely the eventual trigger.

But in this case, professionals haven't said that he is cured. They have said that it is "less likely" that he will do it again.

I believe that some crimes are so awful (and this is one of them) that he should be given no chance whatsoever of doing it again. Zero risk. I have no objection to him being found a place in a nice quiet secure asylum where he can live the rest of his life in peace and the total absence of children.

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Bfcboyo » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:44 am

AndrewJB wrote:What's the opposite of a 'do-gooder'?


A realist?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Greenmile » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:35 am

Martinc265 wrote:Stupid reply. If anyone and I don’t care who it was, did that to any child of mine, I would be more than happy to rid a child killer off this earth to never be able to harm another child again. Can’t make it clearer.


What if a child killed your child? Would you be more than happy to become a child killer to rid the world of a child killer?

Presumably you would given you’ve said you wouldn’t care who it was.

What do you think should happen to you in those circumstances (ie after you have killed a child)? Life without parole? Hanging? The parents of the child you killed murdering you? (then perhaps your parents could murder them, and so on)

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Martinc265
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Martinc265 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:24 pm

Greenmile wrote:
What if a child killed your child? Would you be more than happy to become a child killer to rid the world of a child killer?

Presumably you would given you’ve said you wouldn’t care who it was.

What do you think should happen to you in those circumstances (ie after you have killed a child)? Life without parole? Hanging? The parents of the child you killed murdering you? (then perhaps your parents could murder them, and so on)


You just get worse mate. We or the post was about a multiple child murderer. You not get that? If you want to keep up with your infantile scenarios go and play somewhere else,

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Greenmile
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Greenmile » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Martinc265 wrote:You just get worse mate. We or the post was about a multiple child murderer. You not get that? If you want to keep up with your infantile scenarios go and play somewhere else,


You could always try answering my questions. I’m just interested in following your stance to its logical conclusion.

Failing which, I’ll have to just assume you’re what some folk (naming no names) might call a “virtue signaller” - shouting about how you hate murderers so much more than the rest of us that you’re willing to commit murder just to show your credentials.

(To clarify, I hate murderers too. Not enough to become one myself, though.)

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:45 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Hang em all let God sort em out.


Which God? Buddha?

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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Greenmile » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:15 pm

dsr wrote:But in this case, professionals haven't said that he is cured. They have said that it is "less likely" that he will do it again.

I believe that some crimes are so awful (and this is one of them) that he should be given no chance whatsoever of doing it again. Zero risk. I have no objection to him being found a place in a nice quiet secure asylum where he can live the rest of his life in peace and the total absence of children.


There’s a non-zero risk of Martinc265 murdering someone (presuming we take him at his word - he’s already outlined the circumstances in which he’d murder someone). Should he be locked up for the rest of his life, or is it only people who have already committed crimes in the past who should be locked up to prevent further crimes they might commit in the future?

# 98
Martinc265
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Martinc265 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:31 pm

Greenmile wrote:You could always try answering my questions. I’m just interested in following your stance to its logical conclusion.

Failing which, I’ll have to just assume you’re what some folk (naming no names) might call a “virtue signaller” - shouting about how you hate murderers so much more than the rest of us that you’re willing to commit murder just to show your credentials.

(To clarify, I hate murderers too. Not enough to become one myself, though.)



You just don’t get it do you. Let me repeat myself so it becomes logical to your logical mind.
If and I repeat if, an adult multiple child murderer did that to any child or grandchild of mine they would not see the day out if they got released. End of. Now you can twist that to however you want with your games of words. I really don’t care if you or anyone else doesn’t like that idea, I am saying what I would do, without an ounce of regret and without any thought of the consequences. Now that is as plain as I can make it to you. Take it or leave it but do not try to involve me with your games as you are trying to do, to put it bluntly you are irrelevant to me and with that I retire from this post

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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Rileybobs wrote:How do the vast majority want the law to deal with evil creatures?


Locked up and not let out.

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Greenmile
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Re: Another murderer released

Postby Greenmile » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:49 pm

Martinc265 wrote:You just don’t get it do you. Let me repeat myself so it becomes logical to your logical mind.
If and I repeat if, an adult multiple child murderer did that to any child or grandchild of mine they would not see the day out if they got released. End of. Now you can twist that to however you want with your games of words. I really don’t care if you or anyone else doesn’t like that idea, I am saying what I would do, without an ounce of regret and without any thought of the consequences. Now that is as plain as I can make it to you. Take it or leave it but do not try to involve me with your games as you are trying to do, to put it bluntly you are irrelevant to me and with that I retire from this post


What I’m trying to ask (and you’re avoiding answering) is what you think should then happen to you? After all, the person you murdered would also be someone’s child (and grandchild). Would you expect their parents to murder you without an ounce of regret or thoughts for the consequences?

I see you’ve now changed your position from “If anyone and I don’t care who it was, did that...” to “if, an adult multiple child murderer did that...”, so I seem to have given you some food for thought, at least. Keep this up, and we may turn you into someone who isn’t a potential murderer at all.


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