Wolves in for Tarkowski

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by mdd2 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:50 am

gandhisflipflop wrote:Sorry if it's been asked before but do Brentford have a sell on clause?
Bad management if they don't have at least 20%
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by JohnMcGreal » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:15 pm

Spijed wrote:Left footed or not I think people are dismissing how good Gibson was during his time at Boro.

You don't get linked with the top clubs if you are not a good player.
Which makes you wonder just how long is a player of Gibson's ability going to be happy wasting his career on the bench?

It seems that unless Ben Mee leaves or we suddenly start playing with 3 central defenders, Gibson is about to lose another year of his career with barely any game time.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by blake's wand » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:34 pm

If we are getting £25-£30m, we should be selling. Tarks stepped in to fill Keane's boots with arguably less pedigree than Gibson has got. Those funds will help strengthen other areas.

As for the issue with two left sided CBs, that really isn't a problem. Many clubs play with two right CBs. Central positions don't have the same issue as full backs and wingers - how many people complain about what foot the CMs are?
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Socrates » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:48 pm

Can anybody a centre-back partnership where they were both left-footed?

If it’s that straightforward surely football would be littered with them. I can’t think of any.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:02 pm

Can somebody break down the news on Tarkowski?

Can't be bothered to read through 4 pages of TVC15 arguing with himself.
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:Can somebody break down the news on Tarkowski?

Can't be bothered to read through 4 pages of TVC15 arguing with himself.
There is no news pr-ick.
Now go away and try and find something else to criticise the club about.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:07 pm

Socrates wrote:Can anybody a centre-back partnership where they were both left-footed?

If it’s that straightforward surely football would be littered with them. I can’t think of any.
What about partnerships who are both right footed?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by blake's wand » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:12 pm

Why are CM pairings or CF pairings any different?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:16 pm

Socrates wrote:Can anybody a centre-back partnership where they were both left-footed?

If it’s that straightforward surely football would be littered with them. I can’t think of any.
Post #129

Football isn't "littered with them" as there are statistically more right footed footballers than left footed.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:21 pm

TVC15 wrote:There is no news pr-ick.
Now go away and try and find something else to criticise the club about.
Why are you always so angry?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:22 pm

blake's wand wrote:Why are CM pairings or CF pairings any different?
The way they receive the ball, the tacking and standing up of opposition players, number of things different really. Plus few clubs play with 2 centre forwards anymore where no club plays with only one CB.
Centre forwards should be a lot more 2 footed than CBs.

I’m not sure we necessarily need a left and tighter sided CB. I can see why it could be important but i’d rather have 2 good same sided CBs than one of each who may not be as good.

It would be really tough on Gibson if he was overlooked. I think he was a really good player at Boro. But I do think if we signed Dawson he has a lot of good experience and can also play right back...if we lose Tarks we are going to need to sign another CB anyway. But If we don’t play Gibson he will want to leave so we are back to finding a CB happy to bide his time and develop as 3rd or 4th choice.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:Why are you always so angry?
I’m not - it’s just when I read one of your posts.
What’s your excuse for always talking rubbish ?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Rick_Muller » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:25 pm

Socrates wrote:Can anybody a centre-back partnership where they were both left-footed?

If it’s that straightforward surely football would be littered with them. I can’t think of any.
Just googled, over 80% of footballers are right footed. With that in mind, it’s no surprise that it’s not common to have 2 left footed centre backs. There’s no reason for it to not work as far as I can see, in fact it may have short term advantages if the opposition don’t know how to “play” them.
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:31 pm

There's a decent argument that a left-footed centre back has an advantage facing up against a right-footed striker.

It is very rare to see two left-footed centre backs. One of my thoughts would be as left-footed players are much rarer they are put in more specialist positions, eg. full back or on the wing, at a young age. I think you probably see a higher percentage of left-footed players in attacking positions than right-footed ones.

There are nuances to consider and certainly reasons why two left-footed centre backs may not make the best partnership but there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't work.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:31 pm

With many being so worried re the potential of having two left footed centre halves, does everyone remember life before Ben Mee got in the team? I can only really remember Shackell and Winstanley as left footed centre halves in my lifetime watching Burnley (I stand to be corrected on this, however) :) But the point is, why is it such a big deal to many fans and when did this essential strategy of having a left footed and right footed centre half originate?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:35 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:With many being so worried re the potential of having two left footed centre halves, does everyone remember life before Ben Mee got in the team? I can only really remember Shackell and Winstanley as left footed centre halves in my lifetime watching Burnley (I stand to be corrected on this, however) :) But the point is, why is it such a big deal to many fans and when did this essential strategy of having a left footed and right footed centre half originate?
Having a left and right-footed centre back partnership certainly helps with playing the ball across the back line.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:39 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Having a left and right-footed centre back partnership certainly helps with playing the ball across the back line.
When they have all that time and space? I don't buy that.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:14 pm

It seems a bit futile to downmark Ben Mee as a partner for Gibson, just because he doesn't kick too well with his right foot. It's not as if his left foot is borrowed off Lionel Messi. Mee' strength is stopping, positioning, heading, clearing, blocking, and making sure the opposition doesn't score. His kicking, with either foot, is more than adequate to complement the parts of the job that he does superbly.

So having established that it doesn't matter whether Mee is technically left footed or right footed, then clearly his partner could be either footed and still be complementary.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Socrates » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:23 pm

So i’ve had a few responses now .... nobody can name a centre-back partnership with two left footers.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:32 pm

Socrates wrote:So i’ve had a few responses now .... nobody can name a centre-back partnership with two left footers.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.
Maybe re-read them?
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by ksrclaret » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:35 pm

Socrates wrote:So i’ve had a few responses now .... nobody can name a centre-back partnership with two left footers.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.
A few years ago Ipswich played successfully with Tommy Smith and Christophe Berra, who are both left footed centre halves.

It does happen from time to time, and it can work.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:43 pm

Socrates wrote:So i’ve had a few responses now .... nobody can name a centre-back partnership with two left footers.

Maybe there’s a reason for that.
More people are right footed than left footed, which makes it less likely that the best tweo centre halves are both left footed; and there is a belief approaching superstition that two left footers won't work together so it doesn't often get tried.

It's not so much a question of whether or not it is an advantage to have one left and one right footer - it most probably is. It's a question of how much of an advantage. Aaron Lennon is right footed, but I doubt there would be many on here suggest that Lennon-Mee would be a better centre half pairing than Gibson-Mee.

There are lots of little advantages to being a centre half that Mee, in particular, hasn't got. He isn't tall, by centre half standards. His ball playing isn't great, by centre half standards. He isn't particularly fast. And yet (especially when you're Burnley) you aren't going to be able to sign the best player in the world; instead we hopefully (and in Mee's case, actually) sign a player who has so much of the other defensive abilities that he overcomes the shortcomings.

Si if Tarkowski leaves, Mee-Gibson may not be the ideal pairing. But I bet it would still be a very good pairing, and most importantly, it will be a better pairing than one made up of Mee and the best right footed centre half that we could drum up at short notice.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:When they have all that time and space? I don't buy that.
It’s a lot easier to open up your body to pass the ball to your nearest full back than it is to play the ball across your body. Especially as centre backs are rarely pressed from the wide positions.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Claretmatt4 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:54 pm

Only really relevant to mention Mees height if he loses out on aerial battles. He just doesn't.

I'd let him go for £30m + add ons which is realistic. We need a young CB and can spread the rest into buying a good CAM

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:55 pm

I'm not sure about Mee and Gibson as a pair, but Gibson has bided his team and I think he deserves a chance to prove himself.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:57 pm

it's Wolves, they are owned by China, 65 million

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by taio » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:03 pm

If he goes I can't see us getting more than £35m. I'd be stunned if we got some of the amounts being referred to.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:10 pm

Am I the only one on here that's thinks we won't miss Tarkowski that much?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by MDWat » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:12 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Am I the only one on here that's thinks we won't miss Tarkowski that much?
Hope so, he's top class and our reserve for him is Kevin Long.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:14 pm

MDWat wrote:Hope so, he's top class and our reserve for him is Kevin Long.
Is Long in front of Gibson in the pecking order?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by MDWat » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:20 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Is Long in front of Gibson in the pecking order?
Dyche won't play Mee and Gibson together.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Steve1956 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:22 pm

MDWat wrote:Dyche won't play Mee and Gibson together.
Has he told you that?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:24 pm

Rileybobs wrote:It’s a lot easier to open up your body to pass the ball to your nearest full back than it is to play the ball across your body. Especially as centre backs are rarely pressed from the wide positions.
I understand what you are saying about body shape but I'm pretty confident that Ben Gibson is more than capable of using his right foot and making a pass to a full back without looking like Steve Blatherwick.
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:53 pm

Steve1956 wrote:Has he told you that?
He’s told everyone did you not get the message. His exact words were ‘As long as I’m Burnley Manager I will never play two left footed centre halves together.’
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:58 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:I understand what you are saying about body shape but I'm pretty confident that Ben Gibson is more than capable of using his right foot and making a pass to a full back without looking like Steve Blatherwick.
So is my sister, so what? :D
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by KRBFC » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Hummels going back to Dortmund for £25M, what is the price Leicester want for Maguire again? overrated English players who have achieved nothing.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:12 pm

MDWat wrote:Dyche won't play Mee and Gibson together.
So if Tarkowski and Long are both injured, it'll be Mee and - who? Bardsley? Hendrick? Barnes? Pope?
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:44 pm

I am surprised that anyone would think that a right footed and left footed centre-back partnership is the most desirable as this means that we are weakest through the centre. Whereas a partnership of 2 right footed or 2 left footed players means that we will always have one strong down the centre. Unless of course you play 1 right footed and 1 left footed on their ‘wrong sides’.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Grimsdale » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:06 am

I think the logic behind a left and right footed combination at centre half means that if you are faced with an attacker coming at you, you want to position yourself so that the attacker is forced away from goal, so a right sided defender would force the attacker out to the right where he could then make a tackle (if required) with his stronger foot and similarly for the left sided defender.

Assuming Mee stays on the left, would Gibson be able to do this on his "wrong" side and be able to tackle with his right leg?

I would think that given the plaudits Gibson has received in the past and the fact that he has been called up to the England squad would suggest he is capable of tackling with either leg so it shouldn't be an issue, although the person in the best position to see this would be Sean Dyche. I guess if we are in the market to sign someone like Craig Dawson then surely he would be coming in a straight replacement for Tarkowski, whereas someone like Dael Fry would be seen more as a backup/one to develop, leaving Gibson as Tarky's replacement.

Incidentally, Gibson's only goal so far for the Clarets was courtesy of his right foot, whereas Tarky's only goal with his foot was scored with his left, so make of that what you will.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:09 am

As someone said before, although they may be more reliable with a particular foot for a long pass or shot, it could just be that both Tarks and Gibson are ‘reasonably’ two footed.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Quicknick » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:59 am

This time next year, we will be worried about selling Gibson.
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:37 am

Imagine Mee playing on the right side of a central pairing and Long on the left - now that would work for a lot of people on here

Almost as good as David Jones playing on the right :o

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by gawthorpe_view » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:53 am

So, is he going to Wolves?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Tricky Trevor » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:09 am

Hadn’t Ben Mee signed his new contract before Gibson signed?

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by aggi » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:11 am

dsr wrote:Though as has already been pointed out, right footed players have little trouble playing on the left so we wouldn't need a left sided centre half. It's having no right footers that is the recipe for failure.
That's not quite true. Right footed players who are used to playing on the left have little trouble playing on the left.

Tarkowski for instance struggles on the left.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by nyclaret » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:31 am

KRBFC wrote:Hummels going back to Dortmund for £25M, what is the price Leicester want for Maguire again? overrated English players who have achieved nothing.
Hummels going back for that fee does put things into perspective a little. He's still only 30! They'll get another good couple of seasons out of him yet. I agree that it makes the fees for English players look ridiculous.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:12 am

KRBFC wrote:Hummels going back to Dortmund for £25M, what is the price Leicester want for Maguire again? overrated English players who have achieved nothing.
Plus they only paid £30 million for him in the first place.

German football doesn't seem to suffer with extortionate prices or wages like English football does.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:17 am

Tricky Trevor wrote:Hadn’t Ben Mee signed his new contract before Gibson signed?
No - Gibson was bought as Mee's potential replacement, after which Mee's agent got cold feet about trying to get Ben a whopping deal and settled for a more realistic figure (still prob one of the highest deals within the club)
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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Swizzlestick » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:21 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Plus they only paid £30 million for him in the first place.

German football doesn't seem to suffer with extortionate prices or wages like English football does.
He only had a year left on his contract when he originally signed for Bayern.

And Bayern pay huge wages.

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Re: Wolves in for Tarkowski

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:38 am

And he's been poor this seazon as well (hummells)

Don't see the issue with selling Tarks. That's what we do, and we then buy a player to step up.

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