C4 Conservative leader debate

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AndrewJB
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndrewJB » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:03 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Looks like Rory's had them all !
That’s a pretty quickly created attack ad on Rory.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:04 pm

tarkys_ears wrote:Wow. Fantastic debate!

What a choice between such great candidates. I thought I'd default to Bojo but I'm quite liking Gove. To be honest, I'll be happy with any of them.
...and there’s where the drugs round went...!

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by aggi » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:06 pm

I'm out of the country so following this on the guardian website. This line summed it up for me:

The questioner says none of the panel has impressed her.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve1956 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:06 pm

Stalbansclaret wrote:That was absolutely hideous.....the craven sycophancy and spurious empathy with the people asking the questions, the statement of dream goals with absolutely no substance in terms of how to achieve them, the "gizza job" failure to challenge Johnson ...just hideous.
That's politician's for ya!

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:07 pm

tarkys_ears wrote:Wow. Fantastic debate!

What a choice between such great candidates. I thought I'd default to Bojo but I'm quite liking Gove. To be honest, I'll be happy with any of them.
Not much in-between those ears!

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve1956 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:11 pm

Johnson was totally useless,he even couldn't bring himself to say the word "Abdullah" to one of the questioner's

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by bfcjg » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:13 pm

I cannot even see how a general election will help matters. I think the Tories have done their time but Corbyn is a worse option.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:14 pm

Corbyn actually has a chance against that lot, and this is from someone who thinks Corbyn couldn't find his arse with both his hands
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by fanzone » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:17 pm

I thought Boris were taking it in his stride and knows he's getting the job, the rest tried to hard and that Rory Chao looks like the Nerd at school who no one listens to.

Boris is very unpredictable and that's is something we need in a leader at this present time.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:17 pm

How are we in a position where there doesn’t seem to be one person in the whole of Parliament who seems to be a suitable leader of the country.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:20 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:How are we in a position where there doesn’t seem to be one person in the whole of Parliament who seems to be a suitable leader of the country.
Can't remember the last time we weren't in that position

Blair in 97 maybe?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:20 pm

fanzone wrote:I thought Boris were taking it in his stride and knows he's getting the job, the rest tried to hard and that Rory Chao looks like the Nerd at school who no one listens to.

Boris is very unpredictable and that's is something we need in a leader at this present time.
We need unpredictability?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by ksrclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:26 pm

Johnson is on his very best behavior at the moment and will be being guided almost word for word by a team.

Nevertheless, he was very rattled by the question about Islamophobia and later the question about Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

If/ when he becomes PM, he's going to drop his guard and land himself in it big time. He'll be out again by Christmas.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Im_not_Robbie_Blake » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:29 pm

What a mediocre lot they are.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by The Enclosure » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:31 pm

Bring back Teresa, she would wipe the floor with that lot.God help us all when one of that lot gets the top job.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by mkmel » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:37 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Can't remember the last time we weren't in that position

Blair in 97 maybe?
Just what I was thinking

The Tony Blair of 1997 and pre Iraq would have wiped the floor with any of this lot

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by ashtonlongsider » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:44 pm

That was 'car crash' tv for me. I was watching thinking that in a months time one of these guys will be leading the country. We really are in trouble.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:58 pm

BoJo is a British version of Trump, everything he says is utter crap but people lap it up because he’s just a bumbling idiot.

Puppet masters are the winners here...
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Real ale 2 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:03 pm

What a depressing hour ..couldn't believe it when they stopped taking about Brexit so soon .Only Stewart seemed to be honest not pretending he had all the answers and being a bit more realistic.Awful moderator and why was above allowed to waffle on bashing Corbyn when we wanted to hear what you would do .Tragic that most of these have been in cabinet and have presided over the mess we find ourselves in and still think they are the countries saviour .
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by nil_desperandum » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:05 pm

fanzone wrote: Boris is very unpredictable and that's is something we need in a leader at this present time.
Could you give but one reasoned answer as to how being unpredictable could possibly be a good thing at this time in our history?
Just imagine having him leading crucial negotiations on our behalf if as you say he's unpredictable. How could the other side trust him from one day to the next. Bit like Trump really, but Trump (USA) is always in a pretty strong position whilst we look incredibly weak, (especially after this evening's debate). Barnier etc. must be watching open-mouthed in disbelief.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Stockbrokerbelt » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:06 pm

That crap show just shows how far politicians & politics have fallen in the UK & Tory party, the interviewer was not strong enough not a reply about food banks etc.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:07 pm

Well, that was fun.

A rabble that Maitlis had zero control of. She was fixated by shafting Johnson, constantly throwing irrelevancies into the debate, like the silly question about loose lips. Ok fine, but we have about half a dozen questions to our next PM and surely there are more important issues.

Stewart was entertaining with his tie off and being slid half off his stool. He was so negative though, he even made the Maybot look positive.

In truth though I wouldn’t have given any of them a job on today’s performance.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by kentonclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:11 pm

Those tuning in hoping for a reincarnation of Winston Churchill were just given ample evidence why the Cowardly Lion has been keen to do a runner and avoid media scrutiny during this sorry selection process.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:13 pm

aggi wrote:I guess the 3rd runway construction for Heathrow hasn't started yet so there is still a chance that Johnson will lie down in front of the bulldozers to stop it. Given that he didn't even vote to stop it that does seem a little unlikely though.

He also did a really bad job at ending rough sleeping in London by 2012, or that time when he said he'd prove that water cannon were safe by having them blast him with them, or the one where he said he'd increase the number of police on the street and it actually fell, his promise that every underground station would have a manned ticket office (impressively he went on to close all of them), public transport fares would go down (they went up), there wouldn't be any strikes on the underground (there were), a return to bus conductors on certain routes (they didn't last long), promising not to close fire stations, that the hire bike scheme would operate at no cost to the taxpayer, ...

Apart from that though I can't recall much (but I'm sure there's more).
Ok I get that, but there is a difference between lying and changing one’s mind, or failing to deliver. I was on about lying, recently. I don’t include the bus by the way,

His approval rates were 50%-70% from the day he arrived to the day he left.

The ticket office thing most people felt was the right decision (using the funding to keep the tube open 24/7).

I don’t particularly rate him by the way, I just feel that at this moment he is the best choice out of the candidates and we should all coalesce around someone.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by If it be your will » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:17 pm

.
Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by timshorts » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:19 pm

The winner was channel 4. Their presentation was superb compared to that.

Or was it worse because raab was replaced by Johnson?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Cirrus_Minor » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:23 pm

All discussing new ideas and agenda for if they become PM. This would be a change to the manifesto that the tories were elected on. Significant changes such as massive tax cuts for the rich should be put to all in a general election. Watching this tonight was like we had awoken into some sort of one party state.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by aggi » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:25 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Ok I get that, but there is a difference between lying and changing one’s mind, or failing to deliver. I was on about lying, recently. I don’t include the bus by the way,

His approval rates were 50%-70% from the day he arrived to the day he left.

The ticket office thing most people felt was the right decision (using the funding to keep the tube open 24/7).

I don’t particularly rate him by the way, I just feel that at this moment he is the best choice out of the candidates and we should all coalesce around someone.
You didn't mention lying (and what appears to be a very narrow definition of it), you said Boris not keeping his promises which is what all of those were (I also don't necessarily disagree with some of them such as the ticket offices or bike hire but that isn't the point).

Failing to deliver when in a position of power seems very relevant to a leadership campaign.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by mdd2 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:39 pm

Why oh why did no one explain to the young Scottish lass what cutting our CO2 to zero by 2025 would wreck this country and do sweet FA to global CO2 and the climate.
On the global warming note someone was praising the Chinese on Radio 4 the other day as they have about 90% of the Worlds electric buses-wow and how are the powered?
By electricity from the glut of coal fired power stations!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by chorleyhere » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:40 pm

tarkys-ears @147

Hopefully that was an ironic statement "to be honest"?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by jurek » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:15 pm

Well, what a unbelievably poor show that was!

I'm not sure what the Tory members watching that might think but I
found it verging on unbelievable.

Apart from Stewart they were all promising some tax cuts or raising the tax threshold
or whatever else. And then a few minutes later (or was it earlier?) agreeing we'd need to
invest in our public sector - be it NHS, education, social care, police etc.

I think most of us know our public services are struggling to provide a reasonably
acceptable service and probably needs serious amounts of money and resources put into
them to even bring them back to a reasonable level.

The reality is that we may well need to raise some taxes to do this but I for one
would not object to paying some more tax if I thought our NHS was going to be properly funded
and staffed along with our schools, police, social care services and the rest.

The irony is that most of those vying to be Prime Minister were members of a government
that was responsible for the current state most of these public services find themselves in.

It's a joke really but I'm not sure I'm finding it that funny.

Last night I spent the best part of six hours in A&E with my wife who was feeling very unwell.
It's now been renamed as an Emergency Treatment Centre with a Urgent Care Centre alongside, it by the way.
It was heaving with people and even though the nurses and those on duty were obviously doing their best
and my wife got her ECG and blood test sorted within 4 hours or so we were told it would
be another two or more hours before a doctor would see her. We decided to leave as my wife
wouldn't have to able to sit there for another few hours. Folk in front of us had been there for over seven hours
in some cases.

I'm pretty sure that isn't what most people would call acceptable.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:34 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Does William Defoe look anything like the well known actor Willem Dafoe of Green Goblin fame?

If so, there does seem to be a likeness to Rory Stewart.
Wikipedia-

"William James "Willem" Dafoe[1] (born July 22, 1955) is an American actor. A highly prolific character actor, Dafoe has received multiple awards and nominations, including four Academy Award nominations."

Give 'em enough rope and the pedantry police hang themselves......

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by tarkys_ears » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:34 pm

Don't think I'll be voting for Boris now he's going to scrap the tax cut for the "rich".

They're not the rich mate, they're the ones who pay all the tax. Make the peasants pay some it.

Why should I be forking out for some tart with 4 kids to live in the social housing at the bottom of my estate worth £400k and drive a £30 grand mobility car because one of them has "difficulty walking"?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by JohnMcGreal » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:46 pm

The conservative party is not fit to govern the country and it hasn't been for years. These five no-marks are the cream of the crop. The best they have to offer. They're a bad joke.

The labour party is in a slightly better state (faint praise indeed) but there are many people who firmly believe they would be just as hopeless as this lot, if not worse.

Which, given our ridiculously unrepresentative FPTP system, leaves us in the very dangerous situation where we look like we're actually unable to govern ourselves at the moment.

That would be a real worry at the best of times, but to find ourselves in this state just as we're about to 'go it alone' in the world is unacceptable.

The number one priority for this country now is to revoke article 50 as soon as possible, so we can give ourselves the time and breathing space to try and get our **** together and become a serious country again.

This nightmare has to end. Put it back to the public and see how keen they are to let this clown car of a government take us out of the EU.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:19 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Wikipedia-

"William James "Willem" Dafoe[1] (born July 22, 1955) is an American actor. A highly prolific character actor, Dafoe has received multiple awards and nominations, including four Academy Award nominations."

Give 'em enough rope and the pedantry police hang themselves......
Yes, but who is this William Defoe you're talking about?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:The conservative party is not fit to govern the country and it hasn't been for years. These five no-marks are the cream of the crop. The best they have to offer. They're a bad joke.

The labour party is in a slightly better state (faint praise indeed) but there are many people who firmly believe they would be just as hopeless as this lot, if not worse.

Which, given our ridiculously unrepresentative FPTP system, leaves us in the very dangerous situation where we look like we're actually unable to govern ourselves at the moment.

That would be a real worry at the best of times, but to find ourselves in this state just as we're about to 'go it alone' in the world is unacceptable.

The number one priority for this country now is to revoke article 50 as soon as possible, so we can give ourselves the time and breathing space to try and get our **** together and become a serious country again.

This nightmare has to end. Put it back to the public and see how keen they are to let this clown car of a government take us out of the EU.
The reason why it's always one of labour or Tory is because they've got that core voters who're so effing blinkered they won't budge, FPTP would probably work better if people actually looked away from these two parties, but they can't/won't so we are stuck with these cretins.
There are plenty of people on here who couldn't begin to imagine voting for someone else :roll:

As for Article 50, nope, revoking it won't make a bit of difference right now, it's just another desperate suggestion to keep the country in the EU :roll:

If anything it's actually highlighted how toss the two main parties are, that neither are currently fit to run a bath let alone the country and whilst it won't happen to would be nice to watch the two main parties collapse and some others getting a chance to see if they can wreck the country like these two have.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:25 am

I'd make a joke about there never being a suicide bomber around when you need one, but i think the right-wing snowflakes who are suddenly against politically incorrect jokes would screech so loud that it'd get me banned.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Pearcey » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:12 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'd make a joke about there never being a suicide bomber around when you need one, but i think the right-wing snowflakes who are suddenly against politically incorrect jokes would screech so loud that it'd get me banned.
They might turn a blind eye if it was you wearing the jacket! :lol:
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:19 am

Steve1956 wrote:Johnson was totally useless,he even couldn't bring himself to say the word "Abdullah" to one of the questioner's
You mean Abdullah the extremist ?

https://order-order.com/2019/06/19/abdu ... sequences/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Caballo » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:19 am

aggi wrote:I'm out of the country so following this on the guardian website. This line summed it up for me:

The questioner says none of the panel has impressed her.
Sadly for the chairperson, she was the worst of the lot. Which took some doing, I might add.
Last edited by Caballo on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:40 am

AndyClaret wrote:You mean Abdullah the extremist ?

https://order-order.com/2019/06/19/abdu ... sequences/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did you read the comments on that site? I’m not standing up for Abdullah’s social media shares (if they are actually his), but a little t of those comments are well off the mark too. Sad for debate.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:52 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If anything it's actually highlighted how toss the two main parties are, that neither are currently fit to run a bath let alone the country and whilst it won't happen to would be nice to watch the two main parties collapse and some others getting a chance to see if they can wreck the country like these two have.
I cannot get my head around that last part at all. If you think a group of people are so incompetent and so inept, why would you want to heap more pressure and demands on them by forcing them to attempt something as incredibly complicated as leaving the EU?

This would be a monumental challenge for the most talented and skilled UK government in history, and even they would struggle to pull it off without causing a certain amount of havoc.

So why would you trust this lot with something so important? How do you honestly think this will go? Do you think they're suddenly going to become competent in the most inhospitable circumstances?

We need to stop the clock. Eradicate the time pressure of the article 50 process and sort our own problems out before we even attempt to do something like this again. We are in no fit state to run anything right now.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:55 am

AndyClaret wrote:You mean Abdullah the extremist ?

https://order-order.com/2019/06/19/abdu ... sequences/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Words still have meaning though, however dodgy the bloke asking the question is.

I mean, without words we wouldn't have a clue about how you stand on a lot of things, but because we do, we all know.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:12 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:I cannot get my head around that last part at all. If you think a group of people are so incompetent and so inept, why would you want to heap more pressure and demands on them by forcing them to attempt something as incredibly complicated as leaving the EU?

This would be a monumental challenge for the most talented and skilled UK government in history, and even they would struggle to pull it off without causing a certain amount of havoc.

So why would you trust this lot with something so important? How do you honestly think this will go? Do you think they're suddenly going to become competent in the most inhospitable circumstances?

We need to stop the clock. Eradicate the time pressure of the article 50 process and sort our own problems out before we even attempt to do something like this again. We are in no fit state to run anything right now.
Why is the default setting for many on here simply about stopping Brexit above anything else?

If we leave, then the government can show the public how good/bad they are and then the public can make a proper decision about chucking them out at the next GE, because they won't be able to hide behind being in the EU.

During that time Labour can faff about with Corbyn, also showing the public they're absolutely useless as a credible opposition/alternative and with a bit of luck the public will grow a set and vote for someone other than the two main parties.
They won't, but I can live in hope.

For all I know the two main parties might actually get their act together once we leave the EU and knuckle down, but I'll not be holding my breath...

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:09 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The reason why it's always one of labour or Tory is because they've got that core voters who're so effing blinkered they won't budge, FPTP would probably work better if people actually looked away from these two parties, but they can't/won't so we are stuck with these cretins.
There are plenty of people on here who couldn't begin to imagine voting for someone else :roll:
.
I think there's truth in both parts of what you say, but you've failed to identify that the real reason why we can't break the mould of 2 party politics IS the FPTP system.
The recent EU elections showed that when every vote counts people will vote positively for what they believe in and needn't vote tactically, whereas at a GE people have - almost through necessity (in many cases) - to vote to ensure that the party they least like might not be elected.
[It is true that some people have blinkered views and would never change party but the PR system at the recent EU elections showed that that hard core for Labour and Conservative is not actually so large.]
Now, let's imagine that we had an elected House of Lords, elected on the same day as the Commons but under the PR system. I'm willing to bet that the results for the 2 houses - though cast by the same people on the same day, would turn out significantly differently, with no 2 party domination in the Lords.
The current shambles we have should be reason enough to end the FPTP system for the Commons, but I can't see it happening.
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nil_desperandum
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:22 am

Anyway, back to the contest.
Another round today.
If I were a Raab supporter, I think I'd be voting for Javid today in order to try to eliminate Stewart, since he is the one diametrically opposed to their vision. They can swap to one of the others once Stewart's gone.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Blackrod » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:27 am

Wasn’t very impressed with the bits I saw. Nothing to get excited about with that lot.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:59 am

Given the set, the format, the questions , the presenters inability to keep control.

The only winners last night, were those over 75s who won't be able to afford a TV licence soon, and have to watch the same shambolic mess when the general election comes.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:56 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The reason why it's always one of labour or Tory is because they've got that core voters who're so effing blinkered they won't budge, FPTP would probably work better if people actually looked away from these two parties, but they can't/won't so we are stuck with these cretins.
There are plenty of people on here who couldn't begin to imagine voting for someone else :roll:
While that is true, I would guess that the demographic of those 'one party' voters is largely older and given time, the stranglehold of the two main parties may loosen.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:39 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Yes, but who is this William Defoe you're talking about?
Thanks Paul, it's great to have somebody monitoring my posts, to point out infallibility.

You previously posted-
Tall Paul wrote:Does William Defoe look anything like the well known actor Willem Dafoe of Green Goblin fame?
Although that one did kind of backfire, didn't it, as I pointed out that Mr Dafoe was indeed called William James "Willem" Dafoe[1] (born July 22, 1955) is an American actor. A highly prolific character actor, Dafoe has received multiple awards and nominations, including four Academy Award nominations.

So its really heart warming that you've got my back, again, by effectively becoming my own personal spell checker. You've shown some fabulous forensic work, by highlighting I inadvertently placed that all important "e" where , clearly, anybody with an ounce of sense, would instinctively know a letter "a" should be! It's almost as if I've got an admin team supporting me. So once again , thanks for all the truly dedicated work on my behalf.

I'll have a go at reposting it again, now that all the glaringly standout errors have been wheedled out thanks to your , fine toothed comb , approach to my posts.

Cheers Buddy.










I hope this'll be taken in good spirit , but the only notable thing about Rory Stewart is that he appears to have the come face of William "Willem" Dafoe.

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