C4 Conservative leader debate

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:40 pm

AndyClaret wrote:It seems Boris has "lent" some votes to Hunt, no way did he gain 18 votes and Boris only 3 !
Doesn’t sound like something honest Boris would do.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:40 pm

AndyClaret wrote:It seems Boris has "lent" some votes to Hunt, no way did he gain 18 votes and Boris only 3 !
I doubt it. I expect there's quite a lot of people who voted for Javid, Gove and Hunt because they're not Boris, which credibly explains why Boris gained so few votes from Javid's elimination. And the rest looks like they were fairly evenly split between Hunt and Gove.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by timshorts » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:43 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Take the test!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... abour-quiz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I scored 130. :)
I was scoring minus six until the last question, partly, I think, because I had no idea what question 5 was about. I don't know who two of those people were. Who do they play for again?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:45 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I doubt it. I expect there's quite a lot of people who voted for Javid, Gove and Hunt because they're not Boris, which credibly explains why Boris gained so few votes from Javid's elimination. And the rest looks like they were fairly evenly split between Hunt and Gove.
Sam Coates on sky says boris vote only went up by 3, when at least 4 Javid supporters publicly declared for Boris. Javid's vote was expected to split 50/50 between Boris and Gove.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:46 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Sam Coates on sky says boris vote only went up by 3, when at least 4 Javid supporters publicly declared for Boris. Javid's vote was expected to split 50/50 between Boris and Gove.

Hmm. Fair enough.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:54 pm

BoJo vs Rhyming slang


We’re doomed I tell thee...
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:57 pm

Poor old Jeremy Hunt has had to borrow some supporters from Boris, then one of his genuine backers (Mark Field) is tonight all over Twitter “escorting” a female Greenpeace protestor from Mansion House.

Yes the protestors were complete numpties but it seemed to be peaceful, so I suspect this one will be all over the press tomorrow.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:15 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Poor old Jeremy Hunt has had to borrow some supporters from Boris, then one of his genuine backers (Mark Field) is tonight all over Twitter “escorting” a female Greenpeace protestor from Mansion House.

Yes the protestors were complete numpties but it seemed to be peaceful, so I suspect this one will be all over the press tomorrow.

Image

What kind of prick do you have to be to grab someone around the neck like this?

So angry that his glitzy dinner was being interrupted. :lol:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1141820588090114049" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by dsr » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:51 am

Why wouldn't someone be angry that his glitzy dinner was interrupted? If you were having some sort of dinner, at home or eating out, and the whole thing was ruined by some protester who was interrupting the whole thing, you'd want to put a stop to it.

How badly was she hurt?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:57 am

dsr wrote:Why wouldn't someone be angry that his glitzy dinner was interrupted? If you were having some sort of dinner, at home or eating out, and the whole thing was ruined by some protester who was interrupting the whole thing, you'd want to put a stop to it.

How badly was she hurt?

I don't blame him for being angry. I'm glad that he's angry. But look how aggressive he is with his anger. Thank god they weren't serving milkshakes at his dinner or he might have killed her.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:02 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Image

What kind of prick do you have to be to grab someone around the neck like this?

So angry that his glitzy dinner was being interrupted. :lol:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1141820588090114049" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the off chance he didn't know who she was, her intentions, or if she was carrying a weapon he'd be a prick not to ensure he was out of the way from any potential danger to himself and escorting her out by the scruff of the neck isn't an issue unless you're using an agenda....

Oh wait.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Wile E Coyote » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:14 am

surely by now in our young or old lives, we have witnessed great and honest orators, believable, stoic, and worthy.
How on earth is a pig faced liar such as Johnson credible as a national spokesman in Great Britain ??
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:27 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:On the off chance he didn't know who she was, her intentions, or if she was carrying a weapon he'd be a prick not to ensure he was out of the way from any potential danger to himself and escorting her out by the scruff of the neck isn't an issue unless you're using an agenda....

Oh wait.

:lol:

Good luck with that defence. "Your honour, the woman was walking past me but for all i know she could have had a weapon so i assaulted her purely in self defence"
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:33 am

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol:

Good luck with that defence. "Your honour, the woman was walking past me but for all i know she could have had a weapon so i assaulted her purely in self defence"
He won't face a court for what he did though, so no need to worry about the defence for stopping an unknown potential assailant.

Worded correctly he'd easily see off any assault charges.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:30 am

He obviously thought it was either Marc Francois or Bob Stewart in drag attempting to reach for a paintball gun and acted accordingly.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:41 am

I thought women wanted equality, or is this the wrong type of equality ?
Last edited by AndyClaret on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:43 am

dsr wrote:Why wouldn't someone be angry that his glitzy dinner was interrupted? If you were having some sort of dinner, at home or eating out, and the whole thing was ruined by some protester who was interrupting the whole thing, you'd want to put a stop to it.

How badly was she hurt?
Next home game mate, I'll throw you out exactly the same way and you can let me know if it hurts.

That sound fair?

Taken this from twitter

"I was kind of hoping that opposing the assault of women would be something we could all unite on. But apparently that's a culture war too."

Sums it up perfectly
Last edited by Lancasterclaret on Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:55 am

Going back to the actual question, there is no chance of Hunt winning (Conservatives members are not going to vote for him) so he'd be better pulling out, giving the job to Johnson who then has more time to do whatever he thinks he can do to solve the Brexit question.

One thing we are short of is time, and though its not ideal, Hunts chances of winning are very similar to Lord Rothbury posting on a thread that has no mention of asians on it.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:08 am

Poor from any male to do this to a woman who is doing nothing, would have been a lot better off just ignoring her instead of now looking a bully.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Damo » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:12 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Image

What kind of prick do you have to be to grab someone around the neck like this?

So angry that his glitzy dinner was being interrupted. :lol:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1141820588090114049" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He probably thought she was going to throw milkshake or acid at someone.
Good on him

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:21 am

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol:

Good luck with that defence. "Your honour, the woman was walking past me but for all i know she could have had a weapon so i assaulted her purely in self defence"
I've just watched this and whilst he may appear to be heavy handed I personally wouldn't describe that as assault. If this is adjudged to actually be assault in the postmortem from the incident, then I fear for security guards and police all across the country who are significantly more heavy handed than he was there as I see on many "real life" TV shows.

The fact is that she should not have been there and had she not been there he would not have had to take action in the way he did, and further to that there is no way any of us can understand what he was thinking at the time - he may have genuinely considered to be threatened by her in some way whether that was because she may have had a weapon or some other reason - we just dont know.

I do think that the incident for a politician could be career limiting as it doesn't look good, and the trial by media will be damaging unless something else gets their interest in the mean time.
claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Poor from any male to do this to a woman who is doing nothing, would have been a lot better off just ignoring her instead of now looking a bully.
She wasn't doing nothing though was she...

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:24 am

Rick_Muller wrote:I've just watched this and whilst he may appear to be heavy handed I personally wouldn't describe that as assault. If this is adjudged to actually be assault in the postmortem from the incident, then I fear for security guards and police all across the country who are significantly more heavy handed than he was there as I see on many "real life" TV shows.

The fact is that she should not have been there and had she not been there he would not have had to take action in the way he did, and further to that there is no way any of us can understand what he was thinking at the time - he may have genuinely considered to be threatened by her in some way whether that was because she may have had a weapon or some other reason - we just dont know.

I do think that the incident for a politician could be career limiting as it doesn't look good, and the trial by media will be damaging unless something else gets their interest in the mean time.


She wasn't doing nothing though was she...

The clip I have seen shows her walking behind people. I admit there was no volume so if she was shouting then I didn't realise. What was she doing ?

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:42 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:The clip I have seen shows her walking behind people. I admit there was no volume so if she was shouting then I didn't realise. What was she doing ?
She was somewhere that she wasn't meant to be - as you said the clip has no sound, and there is not enough of the film to understand what preceded this either, but by being there when she should not was not doing nothing, it was doing something that was understood to be wrong.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by martin_p » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:55 am

dsr wrote:Why wouldn't someone be angry that his glitzy dinner was interrupted? If you were having some sort of dinner, at home or eating out, and the whole thing was ruined by some protester who was interrupting the whole thing, you'd want to put a stop to it.

How badly was she hurt?
I have some sympathy for the MP in this instance, but I think I’m right in saying that you, amongst others, referred to milkshake being thrown at someone as assault. When you’re setting the bar that low I’m afraid you’ve got nowhere to go on this one.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:59 am

Rick_Muller wrote:She was somewhere that she wasn't meant to be - as you said the clip has no sound, and there is not enough of the film to understand what preceded this either, but by being there when she should not was not doing nothing, it was doing something that was understood to be wrong.

Then either a hand on her arm or back guiding her out the building rather than looking like hes gripped her neck was a better option

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:08 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Then either a hand on her arm or back guiding her out the building rather than looking like hes gripped her neck was a better option
Or leave it to someone whose job it is?

Its "Extinction rebellion", not the Islamic State ffs.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:15 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Or leave it to someone whose job it is?

Its "Extinction rebellion", not the Islamic State ffs.
It only takes 1 disturbed individual to infiltrate the political movement for it to be labelled terrorism after they kill someone for their cause.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Rick_Muller » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:16 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Then either a hand on her arm or back guiding her out the building rather than looking like hes gripped her neck was a better option
I agree with you in that is how I would do it, but I was not there in that setting - he was, and he did that.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:18 am

Rick_Muller wrote:It only takes 1 disturbed individual to infiltrate the political movement for it to be labelled terrorism after they kill someone for their cause.
There isn't any sound like you say.

Do you think she was shouting "Death to the West" (or whatever the environmental protest similar shout is?)

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by martin_p » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:22 am

There’s sound on the video on the Guardian website. There’s some kind of siren or alarm going off in the background, probably set off by the protesters as their aim was to drown out Phillip Hammond’s speech. The woman in question doesn’t seem to be saying or shouting anything until she’s accosted as which point she says something about it being a peaceful protest.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by AndyClaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:26 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Then either a hand on her arm or back guiding her out the building rather than looking like hes gripped her neck was a better option
And before you know it you have a #metoo on your hands.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:29 am

AndyClaret wrote:And before you know it you have a #metoo on your hands.
Paging Dr Freud.

Jeez, you'd have a lot of work with this one. Lots of issues.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:34 am

Seen it again.

He shoves her against the pillar and grabs her neck.

No offence people, but there is a way of doing this and way of not doing this, and it looks like a ****** off bloke taking it out on a lass whose interrupted his dinner to me.

Everyone gets angry, but not everyone snaps like that. Thats the issue here.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:44 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Seen it again.

He shoves her against the pillar and grabs her neck.

No offence people, but there is a way of doing this and way of not doing this, and it looks like a ****** off bloke taking it out on a lass whose interrupted his dinner to me.

Everyone gets angry, but not everyone snaps like that. Thats the issue here.
If this a normal lad in a kebab shop doing this, then think "would you look at it the same way?"

Be honest about it.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by yosserhughes » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:44 am

She should not have been there and got forcibly removed.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:48 am

For all anyone knew, she could have been about to throw battery acid on guests.

Anyway, all the attention is on this incident instead of what Remoaner Hammond was whining on about.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Spijed » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:54 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:For all anyone knew, she could have been about to throw battery acid on guests.

Anyway, all the attention is on this incident instead of what Remoaner Hammond was whining on about.
So you think an event that has Government ministers attending wouldn't have tight security and that guests are not searched as they enter?

If that's the case then surely any wanna be terrorist knows they can walk in I checked.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Greenmile » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:56 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:For all anyone knew, she could have been about to throw battery acid on guests.
True, but the same applies to pretty much anyone at any given time. Should we just be allowed to assault whomever we want, on the basis that they might be about to throw acid (or, even worse, milkshake) at someone?
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by yosserhughes » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:11 am

She runs on to the pitch during a match at the Turf whats going to happen ?

(a) she and the stewards sit down on the center circle singing Kum Ba Yar
(b) she and the stewards skip off the pitch to a loud round of applause
(c) she forcibly removed of the pitch with the fans singing get yer t*** out for the boys

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by martin_p » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:30 am

He’s been suspended as a minister.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:13 pm

It won't be long before the people excusing this are excusing other, much more serious violence against peaceful but inconvenient protesters.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:17 pm

Greenmile wrote:True, but the same applies to pretty much anyone at any given time. Should we just be allowed to assault whomever we want, on the basis that they might be about to throw acid (or, even worse, milkshake) at someone?

To be fair it's how they allow you to kill people, especially if they're black, in America. The "i feared for my life" defence is very effective.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:22 pm

Spijed wrote:So you think an event that has Government ministers attending wouldn't have tight security and that guests are not searched as they enter?

If that's the case then surely any wanna be terrorist knows they can walk in I checked.
Well she wasn't a guest. She was a gatecrasher to a private event. She was uninvited. Some could see her as a trespasser.

Even if she had been searched, the tables had a plentiful supply of knives.

Questions should be asked about the failure of security to stop uninvited, potentially dangerous people entering a building.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by LoveCurryPies » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:23 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:It won't be long before the people excusing this are excusing other, much more serious violence against peaceful but inconvenient protesters.

Agree. Sadly what we have seen in the last 3 years is people adopting Trump's 'just treat people however you like' approach. Guy continually calls out the stabbings in London but refuses to take action on fully automatic weapons and the NRA.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Damo » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:27 pm

The worst thing about this, is if this had been a lib dem or possibly a labour MP. About 5 or 6 posters on this thread would have a totally different opinion on it.
Some of you are getting sillier by the day

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by If it be your will » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:30 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:On the off chance he didn't know who she was, her intentions, or if she was carrying a weapon he'd be a prick not to ensure he was out of the way from any potential danger to himself and escorting her out by the scruff of the neck isn't an issue unless you're using an agenda....

Oh wait.
I think we all know that if he honestly thought this lady represented a genuine threat to either himself or the other guests, he'd have bricked it and let the paid professionals deal with it.

He only did this because he knew full well she was harmless.

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:30 pm

Damo wrote:The worst thing about this, is if this had been a lib dem or possibly a labour MP. About 5 or 6 posters on this thread would have a totally different opinion on it.
Some of you are getting sillier by the day
Nope. Because at least one of the people you're talking about isn't a hypocrite. You only think they are because you are and think that everyone else is like you.
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:32 pm

Greenmile wrote:True, but the same applies to pretty much anyone at any given time. Should we just be allowed to assault whomever we want, on the basis that they might be about to throw acid (or, even worse, milkshake) at someone?
The answer is clearly 'no of course not'. However, you use the word "assault" let's see if he's judged to have made an "assault" by the relevant bodies shall we?

Given the current climate with attacks on politicians being normalised , public figures making glib remarks about using battery acid to attack people, the murder of Jo Cox. It's easy , with the benefit of hindsight, to say the MP should have reacted differently.

Spijed
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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Spijed » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:33 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Well she wasn't a guest. She was a gatecrasher to a private event. She was uninvited. Some could see her as a trespasser.

Even if she had been searched, the tables had a plentiful supply of knives.

Questions should be asked about the failure of security to stop uninvited, potentially dangerous people entering a building.
Very difficult to stop people entering as Simon Brodkin always seems to find a way. However, at events such as the Tory party conference he will have had to go through security scanners. At events such as last night there would have been bag searches, as is common practice (Even at places such as the British museum). Whilst it may be difficult to stop some people gaining entry, the chances of people being able to bring in weapons would be quite difficult I suspect.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 82741.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: C4 Conservative leader debate

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:36 pm

I love how the people invoking Jo Cox's murder are also the ones who deny that increased hateful rhetoric from the political figures they support is a contributing factor in crimes like the murder of Jo Cox.
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