C4 Conservative leader debate

[RingoMcCartney]

Very difficult to stop people entering as Simon Brodkin always seems to find a way. However, at events such as the Tory party conference he will have had to go through security scanners. At events such as last night there would have been bag searches, as is common practice (Even at places such as the British museum). Whilst it may be difficult to stop some people gaining entry, the chances of people being able to bring in weapons would be quite difficult I suspect.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 82741.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No need to bring weapons. Already there.

[Damo]

Nope. Because at least one of the people you're talking about isn't a hypocrite. You only think they are because you are and think that everyone else is like you.

This is a really confusing comment, because although you have the self awareness to know you were one of the 5 or 6, you still describe yourself as not being a hypocrite

[Imploding Turtle]

This is a really confusing comment, because although you have the self awareness to know you were one of the 5 or 6, you still describe yourself as not being a hypocrite

Yes. I'm describing myself as one of the 5 or 6 people you falsely believe to be a hypocrite. It's really not that confusing to most people.

[Damo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11682732" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unfortunately it's difficult to separate the far left nutcases are are capable of doing things like this, from the ones who just hang around football message boards, giving people the feeling they would if they preferred action over the expression of virtue

[Spijed]

No need to bring weapons. Already there.

Yes, that's true. However, it's still very difficult to stop people entering, especially if they join up to some business organisation or other long before an event like this one took place.

Sleeper cells have been used throughout the decades and are/were a way to blend into normal society, yet with the intention to cause trouble when the time is right.

There is nothing to stop someone joining a respectable organisation, only to cause problems a few years down the line.

Edit: That's what the likes of Simon Brodkin does.

[Damo]

Yes. I'm describing myself as one of the 5 or 6 people you falsely believe to be a hypocrite. It's really not that confusing to most people.

Again, when you say most people, then it shows a complete lack of self reflection

[RingoMcCartney]

Yes, that's true. However, it's still very difficult to stop people entering, especially if they join up to some business organisation or other long before an event like this one took place.

Sleeper cells have been used throughout the decades and are/were a way to blend into normal society, yet with the intention to cause trouble when the time is right.

There is nothing to stop someone joining a respectable organisation, only to cause problems a few years down the line.

Are you talking about Jeremy Corbyn now?

[Imploding Turtle]

Again, when you say most people, then it shows a complete lack of self reflection

Well, i guess. I often get criticised for thinking i'm much smarter than most people which is why i used an inclusive statement to describe the level of difficulty in understanding the point i was trying, and apparently failing, to explain in terms you'd understand.

[Rick_Muller]

It won't be long before the people excusing this are excusing other, much more serious violence against peaceful but inconvenient protesters.

Please could you explain what you mean in a bit more detail. I have offered my opinion that I didn't think it was assault, and I still dont think it was. I welcome that he has been suspended until a full and proper investigation is carried out - I dont welcome the media assassination because it's popular to sensationalise something like this.

If, following an investigation into everything, he is found to have acted inappropriately then I would welcome whatever is deemed to be appropriate punishment for him, until then I'll offer my opinion about what I can comment on.

[Imploding Turtle]

Please could you explain what you mean in a bit more detail. I have offered my opinion that I didn't think it was assault, and I still dont think it was. I welcome that he has been suspended until a full and proper investigation is carried out - I dont welcome the media assassination because it's popular to sensationalise something like this.

If, following an investigation into everything, he is found to have acted inappropriately then I would welcome whatever is deemed to be appropriate punishment for him, until then I'll offer my opinion about what I can comment on.

Sure. Have you excused his behaviour?

[Rick_Muller]

Sure. Have you excused his behaviour?

I wouldn't say "excused", but I offered my opinion that I didn't think it was assault - will that do?

[Imploding Turtle]

I wouldn't say "excused", but I offered my opinion that I didn't think it was assault - will that do?

Then I wasn't talking about you.

[Greenmile]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11682732
Unfortunately it's difficult to separate the far left nutcases are are capable of doing things like this, from the ones who just hang around football message boards, giving people the feeling they would if they preferred action over the expression of virtue

Maybe it’s difficult for you, but that would be because you’re clearly not very bright.

I note you had to go back to 2010 to find your example of a far left nutcase attacking a politician. How long do you think I’d need to go back to find to find a far right nutcase doing the same, and how difficult do you think i would find it to separate him from the likes of you?

[AndyClaret]

I love how the people invoking Jo Cox's murder are also the ones who deny that increased hateful rhetoric from the political figures they support is a contributing factor in crimes like the murder of Jo Cox.

Jo Cox virtue signal alert, oh how the far left enjoy a good virtue signal.

[Imploding Turtle]

Jo Cox virtue signal alert, oh how the far left enjoy a good virtue signal.

"Jo Cox virtue signal"

"far left"

Guys and girls, from this post forth if you oppose the political rhetoric that leads to people murdering MPs then you are a far left virtue signaller.

[NottsClaret]

The fella in the video is a coward. He didn't feel threatened at all, just furious about a mouthy woman interrupting his posh dinner.

Ace how he 'acted instinctively' to quell this threat.. no way in the world is he jumping up and grabbing a man his own size round the neck like that. A bully, acting like a knobhead. That's about it.

[Imploding Turtle]

Maybe it’s difficult for you, but that would be because you’re clearly not very bright.

I note you had to go back to 2010 to find your example of a far left nutcase attacking a politician. How long do you think I’d need to go back to find to find a far right nutcase doing the same, and how difficult do you think i would find it to separate him from the likes of you?

You don't have to go very far back at all. June 2nd

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/17/euro ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Damo]

Maybe it’s difficult for you, but that would be because you’re clearly not very bright.

I note you had to go back to 2010 to find your example of a far left nutcase attacking a politician. How long do you think I’d need to go back to find to find a far right nutcase doing the same, and how difficult do you think i would find it to separate him from the likes of you?

If you reply to a comment, stating how much more intelligent you are than someone, please ensure for your own sake, that you understand the point they were making. Otherwise you just like a bit silly.
But in reply to the point you just made, would you expect me to be escorted from the premises like the woman on the video?
Would it offend you if I was, like you were when you watched the video?
I suspect the answer would be yes, then no.
Hence my original comment

[Imploding Turtle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11682732
Unfortunately it's difficult to separate the far left nutcases are are capable of doing things like this, from the ones who just hang around football message boards, giving people the feeling they would if they preferred action over the expression of virtue

I just love how you've used a Muslim woman stabbing a Labour MP as revenge for the Iraq war to smear the left. As if that is in any way a left-wing act of terrorism.

There is absolutely no left-wing motive for that stabbing, but you just decided to attach it to the left, for no reason beyond your own hatred of them.

This perfectly illustrates just how little you give a **** about actual political violence like this (where harm is actually, physically caused) and are using it simply to pretend to care so that you can attack a political group you are intellectually ill-equipped to defeat by making a better argument. I think you have a name for that.

[martin_p]

If you reply to a comment, stating how much more intelligent you are than someone, please ensure for your own sake, that you understand the point they were making. Otherwise you just like a bit silly.
But in reply to the point you just made, would you expect me to be escorted from the premises like the woman on the video?
Would it offend you if I was, like you were when you watched the video?
I suspect the answer would be yes, then no.
Hence my original comment

No ones offended, but it is assault and he is an MP so certainly worthy of comment. Don’t you expect better from our MPs?

[Greenmile]

If you reply to a comment, stating how much more intelligent you are than someone, please ensure for your own sake, that you understand the point they were making. Otherwise you just like a bit silly.
But in reply to the point you just made, would you expect me to be escorted from the premises like the woman on the video?
Would it offend you if I was, like you were when you watched the video?
I suspect the answer would be yes, then no.
Hence my original comment

Why do you think I was offended when I watched the video?

What offended me was your equating left-leaning messageboard posters to someone who stabbed an MP. No doubt you would be offended if i said it’s difficult to separate folk like you from Thomas Mair, and rightly so.

I’m struggling to answer your questions, btw, because you haven’t framed them at all. Would i expect you to be “escorted from the premises”, in what circumstances exactly?

I’m not sure it’s the escorting from the premises that has got folk (not me, though) upset - more the grabbing by the neck bit.

[ElectroClaret]

The bloke came across as a bully, as said a few posts above.

Way, way over the top.

[Imploding Turtle]

No ones offended, but it is assault and he is an MP so certainly worthy of comment. Don’t you expect better from our MPs?

This is exactly what I expect from Conservative MPs.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I think we all know that if he honestly thought this lady represented a genuine threat to either himself or the other guests, he'd have bricked it and let the paid professionals deal with it.

He only did this because he knew full well she was harmless.

That's good to know, that she was harmless

Especially after Joe Brand jokingly suggesting people use acid.

[AndyClaret]

"Jo Cox virtue signal"

"far left"

Guys and girls, from this post forth if you oppose the political rhetoric that leads to people murdering MPs then you are a far left virtue signaller.

Not quite, the far left love to invoke Jo Cox when one of their own is criticised, when a Conservative MP is attacked, it's "how dare you invoke Jo Cox".

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

On the off chance he didn't know who she was, her intentions, or if she was carrying a weapon he'd be a prick not to ensure he was out of the way from any potential danger to himself and escorting her out by the scruff of the neck isn't an issue unless you're using an agenda....

Oh wait.

Phew, that's good, no chance he'll have to issue a full and unreserved apology to her or be suspended from his position while investigated then...

Oh wait.

[aggi]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11682732
Unfortunately it's difficult to separate the far left nutcases are are capable of doing things like this, from the ones who just hang around football message boards, giving people the feeling they would if they preferred action over the expression of virtue

Out of curiosity, what makes you think she was far left (or left leaning at all)?

[Paul Waine]

Seems to be all over the news. Mark Field MP, and Government Minister, was at a dinner at Mansion House where the Chancellor was speaking.

A green, climate change protestor, rushed up towards the stage and Mr Field stopped her and led her away.

Is this the action of a hero? Or, should this guy lose his job, be prosecuted etc. etc. etc?

So, one side is saying "throw the book at him...." (possibly using different phrases), and he's been suspended as a minister.

Would it have been any different if it had been a security person who had intervened?

And, how are we to know it was intended to be a peaceful protest?

[AndyClaret]

And before you know it you have a #metoo on your hands.

I was joking, but Shelagh Forgarty claims Field touched her breast.

[Claret-On-A-T-Rex]

Is this the action of a hero? Or, should this guy lose his job, be prosecuted etc. etc. etc?

He should lose his job and be prosecuted for assault.

[Lancasterclaret]

The worst thing about this, is if this had been a lib dem or possibly a labour MP. About 5 or 6 posters on this thread would have a totally different opinion on it.
Some of you are getting sillier by the day

Nope. It's a man pushing a woman.

It's bloody worrying how many men seem to think it's okay.

[AndrewJB]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 494655.amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If only Mark Field had been present at this event, and he could have allowed his instinctive ninja skills to control the situation, and make everyone safe. Some Tory MPs suggesting now that touching the woman anywhere else would have constituted an “inappropriate touch” Just amazing that his ninja reactions are so honed he even keeps his hands only to appropriate places (though there’s no doubt that right now he’s feeling a right tit)

[Rick_Muller]

Nope. It's a man pushing a woman.

It's bloody worrying how many men seem to think it's okay.

I think its OK in the right circumstances, does that make me a monster?

The issue I have with this situation is that so many people are second guessing what actually happened here, and the clip I have seen could be rather condemning if you want it to be; or he could be a hero depending upon your perspective and the media are sensationalising what is in fact (IMO) quite a trivial incident - which unfortunately is overshadowing the real reason for the lady's protest in the first place and that is being overlooked and forgotten by the media at present.

For the record I think all forms of violence are abhorrent, and I'm not perfect as I have been involved in many altercations in my life where violence has occurred.

[Lancasterclaret]

No, because you clearly are not (as is Damo and I'm assuming the others)

You look at it in a way that I can't accept, but I can accept that others will see it differently.

To me, the rage on this face tips the balance between acceptable and unacceptable.

Good to see that he's been suspended as a minister, but he should really be thinking about what he's done and how it looks and whether he should continue as an MP< let alone as a Minister.

[Damo]

I just love how you've used a Muslim woman stabbing a Labour MP as revenge for the Iraq war to smear the left. As if that is in any way a left-wing act of terrorism.

There is absolutely no left-wing motive for that stabbing, but you just decided to attach it to the left, for no reason beyond your own hatred of them.

This perfectly illustrates just how little you give a **** about actual political violence like this (where harm is actually, physically caused) and are using it simply to pretend to care so that you can attack a political group you are intellectually ill-equipped to defeat by making a better argument. I think you have a name for that.

Well she dropped out of university because her university had given an award to the Israeli politician Shimon Peres.
Seems like the sort of thing the far left would do

[aggi]

Well she dropped out of university because her university had given an award to the Israeli politician Shimon Peres.
Seems like the sort of thing the far left would do

You don't think that may have been to do with her being a radicalised Muslim?

So I guess it's another of those things that you made up hoping not to be challenged.

[Greenmile]

Well she dropped out of university because her university had given an award to the Israeli politician Shimon Peres.
Seems like the sort of thing the far left would do

She also stabbed a politician, which is the sort of thing the far right would do.

[Damo]

No, because you clearly are not (as is Damo and I'm assuming the others)

You look at it in a way that I can't accept, but I can accept that others will see it differently.

To me, the rage on this face tips the balance between acceptable and unacceptable.

Good to see that he's been suspended as a minister, but he should really be thinking about what he's done and how it looks and whether he should continue as an MP< let alone as a Minister.

Would I find this acceptable for a man to do to a woman under normal circumstances?
Absolutely not.
Do I think it's perfectly ok in the circumstances surrounding this incident?
Probably not.
Do I understand why he did it in the circumstances surrounding this incident?
Yes I do.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned left wing nutcases earlier, because it gave the usual suspects an excuse to completely ignore my point.
Be this woman left wing, a centrist, far right or whatever. Given what has been happening of late and the atmosphere surrounding current affairs, I completely understand why a protester would be thrown out of somewhere they invaded by the scruff of their neck

[Imploding Turtle]

Well she dropped out of university because her university had given an award to the Israeli politician Shimon Peres.
Seems like the sort of thing the far left would do

[Damo]

Why do you think I was offended when I watched the video?

What offended me was your equating left-leaning messageboard posters to someone who stabbed an MP. No doubt you would be offended if i said it’s difficult to separate folk like you from Thomas Mair, and rightly so.

I’m struggling to answer your questions, btw, because you haven’t framed them at all. Would i expect you to be “escorted from the premises”, in what circumstances exactly?

I’m not sure it’s the escorting from the premises that has got folk (not me, though) upset - more the grabbing by the neck bit.

You are too intelligent to understand a question, because it wasnt framed correctly?
Ok. Makes sense

[TVC15]

The worst thing about this, is if this had been a lib dem or possibly a labour MP. About 5 or 6 posters on this thread would have a totally different opinion on it.

Do you just cut and paste this onto every thread ?

[Damo]

Do you just cut and paste this onto every thread ?

Post a link to the thread where I have previously posted it.
I'll check back later and apologise when you have posted it

[AndrewJB]

Well she dropped out of university because her university had given an award to the Israeli politician Shimon Peres.
Seems like the sort of thing the far left would do

Fundamentalist Muslim extremists are on the far right of the political spectrum. She’s a far right extremist.

[Greenmile]

You are too intelligent to understand a question, because it wasnt framed correctly?
Ok. Makes sense

I’m too intelligent to understand a question that doesn’t make any sense. You might as well have asked “what should happen to the goldfish?” Without context and framing, it’s a meaningless question.

And just for the record - I never claimed to be particularly intelligent. I just noted that you were obviously not very bright. This much is evident from how you struggle with basic English, as well as the fact you find it “difficult to separate” someone who tries to murder an MP from someone who disagrees with you on a football messageboard.

[Damo]

You don't think that may have been to do with her being a radicalised Muslim?

So I guess it's another of those things that you made up hoping not to be challenged.

If you read my original comment, I never said the woman in my link was far left.
That was just Charlie being Charlie.
Apology accepted

[martin_p]

And, how are we to know it was intended to be a peaceful protest?

Because she was saying ‘this is a peaceful protest’ as she was lead away by the neck?

[TVC15]

Post a link to the thread where I have previously posted it.
I'll check back later and apologise when you have posted it

You do that.

[Imploding Turtle]

If you read my original comment, I never said the woman in my link was far left.
That was just Charlie being Charlie.
Apology accepted

You do know we can see what you posted in the past, right?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11682732
Unfortunately it's difficult to separate the far left nutcases are are capable of doing things like this, from the ones who just hang around football message boards, giving people the feeling they would if they preferred action over the expression of virtue

[Damo]

I’m too intelligent to understand a question that doesn’t make any sense. You might as well have asked “what should happen to the goldfish?” Without context and framing, it’s a meaningless question.

And just for the record - I never claimed to be particularly intelligent. I just noted that you were obviously not very bright. This much is evident from how you struggle with basic English, as well as the fact you find it “difficult to separate” someone who tries to murder an MP from someone who disagrees with you on a football messageboard.

Ah. So you were basing your assumption on not very much at all.
Not the brightest thing to do when you are trying to insult someone is it?

[Imploding Turtle]

Because she was saying ‘this is a peaceful protest’ as she was lead away by the neck?

And also the lack of weapons or violence.