" Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:32 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Yes. moving the goalposts is indeed amusing. Which is why I find it funny that Farage and his sort who campaigned for a soft brexit in order to win the referendum are now saying that the only acceptable Brexit is a no deal brexit.
Most of them are saying No Deal should be an option if needed and they're right.

However, the vote options were remain or leave, you know that.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:46 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Most of them are saying No Deal should be an option if needed and they're right.

However, the vote options were remain or leave, you know that.
And you know that the only reason they won their razor thin majority is because they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit. Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit. If that can't be done then have another referendum, No Deal or Remain.
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:24 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:And you know that the only reason they won their razor thin majority is because they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit. Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit. If that can't be done then have another referendum, No Deal or Remain.
Nope, I don't know if that's how they won, you're making an assumption though because it probably makes you feel better believing it.

Have fun.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:47 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nope, I don't know if that's how they won, you're making an assumption though because it probably makes you feel better believing it.

Have fun.

No, i'm making the assumption because it is quite ******* clearly true.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by MG70 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:55 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No, i'm making the assumption because it is quite ******* clearly true.
You really do get your knickers in a twist over Brexit and Trump don’t you?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:09 am

MG70 wrote:You really do get your knickers in a twist over Brexit and Trump don’t you?
No more than you over me.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by JohnMcGreal » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:15 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nope, I don't know if that's how they won, you're making an assumption though because it probably makes you feel better believing it.

Have fun.

This is what willful ignorance looks like.

You know exactly how the leave campaigns sold leave to the public, and it wasn't on leaving without a deal.

What we're seeing is a classic case of bait-and-switch.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:This is what willful ignorance looks like.

You know exactly how the leave campaigns sold leave to the public, and it wasn't on leaving without a deal.

What we're seeing is a classic case of bait-and-switch.
Both sides told porkies.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by MG70 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:01 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:No more than you over me.
Haha, I ignore you as much as I can. But you’re just a broken record.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:17 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:And you know that the only reason they won their razor thin majority is because they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit. Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit. If that can't be done then have another referendum, No Deal or Remain.
Not sure how many times we have established that this is a lie, but it must be into double figures

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:32 pm

Damo wrote:Not sure how many times we have established that this is a lie, but it must be into double figures
If you think it’s a lie you must’ve been asleep for the whole campaign!

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by tarkys_ears » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:39 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No, i'm making the assumption because it is quite ******* clearly true.
Dry you're eyes, love!

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:13 pm

martin_p wrote:If you think it’s a lie you must’ve been asleep for the whole campaign!
It wouldn't matter if either of us slept all the way through it, because, fortunately for me, and you, it has all been documented. Here is a short video of all of the prominent leavers and remainers telling us what leaving meant.

https://youtu.be/9fDn0MvcHQ4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I'm fairly sure you have seen, and ignored this previously. And I'm quite sure you will again)
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:18 pm

Damo wrote:It wouldn't matter if either of us slept all the way through it, because, fortunately for me, and you, it has all been documented. Here is a short video of all of the prominent leavers and remainers telling us what leaving meant.

https://youtu.be/9fDn0MvcHQ4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I'm fairly sure you have seen, and ignored this previously. And I'm quite sure you will again)
Posted by ‘Channel Brexit’? You need to get out of your echo chamber.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:22 pm

martin_p wrote:Posted by ‘Channel Brexit’? You need to get out of your echo chamber.
Knew you would swerve that one.
I'll keep posting it though everytime this lie is repeated
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:27 pm

Damo wrote:Knew you would swerve that one.
I'll keep posting it though everytime this lie is repeated
I’m not swerving anything. Do you genuinely believe you’ll get a full picture from ‘Channel Brexit’ or might it be the video shows only the bits of the campaign to support a specific argument?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:31 pm

martin_p wrote:I’m not swerving anything. Do you genuinely believe you’ll get a full picture from ‘Channel Brexit’ or might it be the video shows only the bits of the campaign to support a specific argument?
Do you genuinely believe we'd get a full picture from a pro remain channel?


https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew- ... 91462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by dsr » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:33 pm

martin_p wrote:I’m not swerving anything. Do you genuinely believe you’ll get a full picture from ‘Channel Brexit’ or might it be the video shows only the bits of the campaign to support a specific argument?
It's to rebut a specific argument. If the specific argument is that nobody said we would have to leave the single market; it is 100% successfully reubutted by showing clips of loads of prominent politicians on both sides saying that we would leave the single market.
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:36 pm

martin_p wrote:I’m not swerving anything. Do you genuinely believe you’ll get a full picture from ‘Channel Brexit’ or might it be the video shows only the bits of the campaign to support a specific argument?
It's a video of people saying leave means leaving the single market and customs union.
It's completely irrelevant who made the video.
(I know you know that, hence the swerve)
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:38 pm

martin_p wrote:I’m not swerving anything. Do you genuinely believe you’ll get a full picture from ‘Channel Brexit’ or might it be the video shows only the bits of the campaign to support a specific argument?
Marty claims something wasn't ever said.

Marty is presented with proof it was.

Marty places head in sand.........
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by RingoMcCartney » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm

martin_p wrote:Posted by ‘Channel Brexit’? You need to get out of your echo chamber.
:lol:

Somebody needs to retract head from sand.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:59 pm

martin_p wrote:Posted by ‘Channel Brexit’? You need to get out of your echo chamber.
I think this what you call playing the man, not the ball.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by houseboy » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:06 pm

mdd2 wrote:IMO the biggest mistake of the Cameron coalition from 2010 was scrapping Labour's plans for all to have identity cards.
I think it was the best thing Cameron did (and I'm not a Tory). If you're going to make people have ID cards (which I don't agree with) at least don't make them have to PAY for them as well, the amount they were talking about it costing people made it like another form of taxation, which is why I was surprised when the Tories did scrap the idea because they love indirect taxation as it allows them to keep income tax down which keeps up the illusion of them being the party of low taxation, which of course they are not (unless you are rich).

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:07 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Do you genuinely believe we'd get a full picture from a pro remain channel?


https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew- ... 91462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No of course I don’t. You need to find someone presenting an independent view or take the views from both side to get a complete picture. But presenting a pro Brexit video as some sort of ‘proof’ that those claiming the Leave campaign was pushing a message of an ‘easy deal can be done’ is utter nonsense.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:10 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Marty claims something wasn't ever said.

Marty is presented with proof it was.

Marty places head in sand.........
I never claimed anything was never said, just about everything was by someone or other. What I am claiming is that the headline message from the Leave campaign was that we’d get a good deal fast from the EU and that anyone who pointed out that we wouldn’t get a deal was badged as a part of ‘project fear’.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:16 pm

dsr wrote:It's to rebut a specific argument. If the specific argument is that nobody said we would have to leave the single market; it is 100% successfully reubutted by showing clips of loads of prominent politicians on both sides saying that we would leave the single market.
It wasn’t to rebut that specific argument. It was to rebut the claim that Leave had campaigned specifically for a Brexit with a deal beneficial to Britain. So thanks for that intervention, it’s shown the video to be a complete red herring.
Last edited by martin_p on Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And you know that the only reason they won their razor thin majority is because they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit. Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit. If that can't be done then have another referendum, No Deal or Remain.
And for context here was the original claim Damo was trying to claim was a lie by linking a video about the single market.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by aggi » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:29 pm

Damo wrote:It wouldn't matter if either of us slept all the way through it, because, fortunately for me, and you, it has all been documented. Here is a short video of all of the prominent leavers and remainers telling us what leaving meant.

https://youtu.be/9fDn0MvcHQ4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I'm fairly sure you have seen, and ignored this previously. And I'm quite sure you will again)
Leaving the single market is a long way from a No Deal Brexit though so it isn't particularly relevant. If you have another video of multiple people saying that we will sever the ties with the EU and leave without a deal that would be relevant to what's being discussed.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:58 pm

martin_p wrote:No of course I don’t. You need to find someone presenting an independent view or take the views from both side to get a complete picture. But presenting a pro Brexit video as some sort of ‘proof’ that those claiming the Leave campaign was pushing a message of an ‘easy deal can be done’ is utter nonsense.
Why are you swerving again martin?
That video was presented in response to turtles claim that people didnt know that leave meant a hard brexit (as stated in the quoted comment)
The video proved otherwise. Not sure why you are trying to change the argument (I know why really)

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:00 pm

Damo wrote:Why are you swerving again martin?
That video was presented in response to turtles claim that people didnt know that leave meant a hard brexit (as stated in the quoted comment)
The video proved otherwise. Not sure why you are trying to change the argument (I know why really)
Well the quote was no deal Brexit, not hard Brexit.

Leaving the single market is not the definition of a hard Brexit. The Labour proposal has us part of a customs union but leaving the single market and isn’t a no deal Brexit. May’s deal had us leaving the single market but by definition isn’t a ‘no deal’ Brexit.

You scored a massive o.g I’m afraid Damo.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:06 pm

aggi wrote:Leaving the single market is a long way from a No Deal Brexit though so it isn't particularly relevant. If you have another video of multiple people saying that we will sever the ties with the EU and leave without a deal that would be relevant to what's being discussed.
I posted in response to the inference that nobody voted for a hard brexit.
As for no deal... I'm sure even the thickest of brexiteers, understands that a negotiation will result in one of two outcomes. No deal being one of them

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:08 pm

martin_p wrote:Well the quote was no deal Brexit, not hard Brexit.

Leaving the single market is not the definition of a hard Brexit. The Labour proposal has us part of a customs union but leaving the single market and isn’t a no deal Brexit. May’s deal had us leaving the single market but by definition isn’t a ‘no deal’ Brexit.

You scored a massive o.g I’m afraid Damo.
Leaving the single market and customs union is not the definition of a hard brexit?
Really?
What's your definition of a hard Brexit martin?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:12 pm

Damo wrote:Leaving the single market and customs union is not the definition of a hard brexit
Where did I say that? I said leaving the single market doesn’t constitute a hard Brexit.

Besides, as I said Turtles initial post was that people voted Leave with the expectation of a deal, nothing to do with hard Brexit.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by aggi » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Damo wrote:I posted in response to the inference that nobody voted for a hard brexit.
As for no deal... I'm sure even the thickest of brexiteers, understands that a negotiation will result in one of two outcomes. No deal being one of them
From the context ... they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit ... Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit It seems reasonably clear that your suggested Hard Brexit is being equated to a No Deal Brexit (i.e. Not Remain, Not No Deal is soft).

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:34 pm

martin_p wrote:Where did I say that? I said leaving the single market doesn’t constitute a hard Brexit.

Besides, as I said Turtles initial post was that people voted Leave with the expectation of a deal, nothing to do with hard Brexit.
I'll help you pal
Imploding Turtle wrote:And you know that the only reason they won their razor thin majority is because they convinced more than 1.7% of voters that there wouldn't be a no deal Brexit. Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit. If that can't be done then have another referendum, No Deal or Remain.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:53 pm

You can help all you want, but your video (one sided as it is) doesn’t support either of the things you want it to. Leaving the single market doesn’t equate to either a hard Brexit or a no deal Brexit.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Greenmile » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:59 pm

Damo’s been displaying his mastery of the English language again, I see.
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:05 pm

Damo wrote:I posted in response to the inference that nobody voted for a hard brexit.
As for no deal... I'm sure even the thickest of brexiteers, understands that a negotiation will result in one of two outcomes. No deal being one of them
By the way, how you read Turtles post as implying that no one voted for a hard Brexit is completely mystifying! That Mensa test can’t have included verbal reasoning.
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Damo » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:29 pm

martin_p wrote:By the way, how you read Turtles post as implying that no one voted for a hard Brexit is completely mystifying! That Mensa test can’t have included verbal reasoning.
Turtle said
"Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit."
And I posted a video of prominent remainers and leavers stating that leaving means leaving the single market and customs union.
I'm not sure why that may confuse you, given that you just admitted, leaving the single market and customs union constitutes a hard brexit.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Tall Paul » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:51 pm

Damo wrote:Turtle said
"Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit."
And I posted a video of prominent remainers and leavers stating that leaving means leaving the single market and customs union.
I'm not sure why that may confuse you, given that you just admitted, leaving the single market and customs union constitutes a hard brexit.
When in that video does anyone mention not being part of a customs union?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:11 pm

Damo wrote:Turtle said
"Deliver on what was campaigned for, and nothing else. Not Remain. Not no deal. A soft Brexit."
And I posted a video of prominent remainers and leavers stating that leaving means leaving the single market and customs union.
I'm not sure why that may confuse you, given that you just admitted, leaving the single market and customs union constitutes a hard brexit.
I haven’t made a comment on what hard Brexit is, just what it isn’t. And I suggest you actually watch the video you posted, it doesn’t mention a customs union once.

I’m still perplexed at how you think Turtle implied that no one voted for a hard Brexit.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:35 pm

martin_p wrote:I haven’t made a comment on what hard Brexit is, just what it isn’t. And I suggest you actually watch the video you posted, it doesn’t mention a customs union once.

I’m still perplexed at how you think Turtle implied that no one voted for a hard Brexit.
If Turtle states that people voted for a soft brexit then that's what he is implying isn't it?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by martin_p » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:40 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If Turtle states that people voted for a soft brexit then that's what he is implying isn't it?
Using that logic he’s also implying no one voted remain!

Besides, he didn’t say people voted for a soft Brexit.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:If Turtle states that people voted for a soft brexit then that's what he is implying isn't it?
That's what was campaigned for therefore that's what was voted for. The same way you lot have been using manifestos as evidence that people voted for referendum-honouring parties at the last election.

Why is it OK for you guys to base what was voted for on what was campaigned for, but not OK for the rest of us when we apply that exact same, reasonable, principle to the EU referendum?

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:54 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:That's what was campaigned for therefore that's what was voted for. The same way you lot have been using manifestos as evidence that people voted for referendum-honouring parties at the last election.

Why is it OK for you guys to base what was voted for on what was campaigned for, but not OK for the rest of us when we apply that exact same, reasonable, principle to the EU referendum?
You guys?
Who are you lumping me in with?
I've said it several times now, in or out, not much will change for me so it's neither here nor there tbh.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:56 pm

martin_p wrote:Using that logic he’s also implying no one voted remain!

Besides, he didn’t say people voted for a soft Brexit.
He's stated a soft brexit was campaigned for, so the next step is implying people voted for a soft brexit.

That's when he gets his knickers in a twist and starts saying we should have another referendum - no deal or remain :lol:

RingoMcCartney
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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:47 am

martin_p wrote:I never claimed anything was never said, just about everything was by someone or other. What I am claiming is that the headline message from the Leave campaign was that we’d get a good deal fast from the EU and that anyone who pointed out that we wouldn’t get a deal was badged as a part of ‘project fear’.
I've read the thread since my original post. I owe you an apology. This would be a more fair assessment of your reaction.

Marty claims something wasn't ever said.

Marty is presented with proof it was.

Marty whines about video bias, being a red herring, and out of context.

Marty gets increasingly frustrated and claims other posters had scored a massive own goal. Marty meets himself coming back

Then Marty finally places head in sand.........

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:09 am

I'm pretty sure this was the thread where people were mocking me for not wanting our government to have access to everyone's biometric data due to the chances they'll misuse it.

Well...

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by Sproggy » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:13 am

Surely these are the greatest of days for remainers? You becried Boris and his chums "running away" after the leave vote. Well now they're back...precisely what you wanted. Enjoy it.

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Re: " Vote Rigging " Sunday Times report & comments ...

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:39 am

I'm sure they will. Johnson is going to make Britain great again, don't you know.
Anf if he doesn't and we face another generation of austerity and declining standards, the people and areas who suffer most will probably deserve it.
Fingers crossed !

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