VAR

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KRBFC
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VAR

Postby KRBFC » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:05 pm

Is anyone watching the U21 game between Serbia and Austria? How on earth is that a red card? and why are they replaying a leg break on the screen?

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KRBFC
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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:07 pm

and Austria score from the resulting free kick, disgusting refereeing, well done referee, enjoy your winning bet.

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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:27 pm

For context, here is the decision.....

https://twitter.com/samstreetwrites/sta ... 2435922945

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Re: VAR

Postby MDWat » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:32 pm

That’s dreadful. It’s ruining the game.

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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:51 pm

Modern game I'm afraid. This is classed as reckless and endangering an opponent ---the ball no longer matters in football, it is being nice to your opponent that is much more important!

The game is going to the dogs and so will I with this continuing ---it will be more exciting!

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Re: VAR

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:51 pm

Referee is the problem here
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elwaclaret
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Re: VAR

Postby elwaclaret » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:54 pm

Really think next season may end up me calling it a day following pro football if it’s as bad as I’m expecting. Might as well watch American football if I want constant stoppages, or basketball if I want a no contact sport.
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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:56 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Referee is the problem here


I honestly think that the problem is way above the referees ---try UEFA in this case and FIFA in the Womens' World Cup and the directives which they are giving to the officials.
At the end of the day, they employ the officials and this means that any official that does not toe the party line will be dropped from their lists. Sad, very sad!!

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Re: VAR

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:58 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:I honestly think that the problem is way above the referees ---try UEFA in this case and FIFA in the Womens' World Cup and the directives which they are giving to the officials.
At the end of the day, they employ the officials and this means that any official that does not toe the party line will be dropped from their lists. Sad, very sad!!


I still see this one as being a mistake by the referee and not him following any directive.

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KRBFC
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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Referee is the problem here

The referee didn't even blow for a foul, he stopped the game on advice from VAR while Serbia were in behind the Austrian defence on the attack. No problem stopping the game, the guy quite clearly needed treatment asap, but he's quite clearly been heavily influenced to produce the red card by the people above him, who is really making the decision here?

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Re: VAR

Postby ClaretTony » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:The referee didn't even blow for a foul, he stopped the game on advice from VAR while Serbia were in behind the Austrian defence on the attack. No problem stopping the game, the guy quite clearly needed treatment asap, but he's quite clearly been heavily influenced to produce the red card by the people above him, who is really making the decision here?


Wasn’t aware you were privy to what others had said

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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:29 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Wasn’t aware you were privy to what others had said

I'm just going on what I saw, if the referee didn't blow for the free kick, that means he doesn't consider it a foul.

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Re: VAR

Postby MDWat » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:56 pm

elwaclaret wrote:Really think next season may end up me calling it a day following pro football if it’s as bad as I’m expecting. Might as well watch American football if I want constant stoppages, or basketball if I want a no contact sport.


Totally agree elwa. I fear it’ll be my last season too,
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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:55 pm

MDWat wrote:Totally agree elwa. I fear it’ll be my last season too,


I have already decided that, after this coming season. I am not prepared to make the 300 mile return trip to the Turf to see matches decided by people looking at a television screen.
I played and refereed at a decent level for over 50 years at senior level and, apart from goal line technology, I don't think that techology will do anything to enhance the enjoyment of the game for me, in fact, the way it is going it is like officiating by committee! Very, very sad.
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NL Claret
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Re: VAR

Postby NL Claret » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:I have already decided that, after this coming season. I am not prepared to make the 300 mile return trip to the Turf to see matches decided by people looking at a television screen.
I played and refereed at a decent level for over 50 years at senior level and, apart from goal line technology, I don't think that techology will do anything to enhance the enjoyment of the game for me, in fact, the way it is going it is like officiating by committee! Very, very sad.


Just caught the BBC news and saw the French penalty kick been awarded a retake, goalkeepers might as well not move now if that's the scrutiny under VAR. Not looking forward to next season with VAR.

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Re: VAR

Postby dsr » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:09 pm

It amazes me how VAR can judge offside to the nearest inch but doesn't have enough resolution to tell when a player is five yards inside the area at a penalty kick.

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Re: VAR

Postby rob63 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:38 pm

NL Claret wrote:Just caught the BBC news and saw the French penalty kick been awarded a retake, goalkeepers might as well not move now if that's the scrutiny under VAR. Not looking forward to next season with VAR.


When I first saw the new regs for goalkeepers at penalties that was my thought. They may as well award a goal straight away, one foot on the line etc. I know they've introduced it to stop keeper's trying to put the forward off by jumping about, but talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut! Why doesn't the ref just put the ball on the spot & the penalty taker & goalie have a certain time limit in which to take it? Anybody encroaching gets a yellow card for timewasting/ungentlemanly conduct.

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The Enclosure
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Re: VAR

Postby The Enclosure » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:17 am

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:I have already decided that, after this coming season. I am not prepared to make the 300 mile return trip to the Turf to see matches decided by people looking at a television screen.
I played and refereed at a decent level for over 50 years at senior level and, apart from goal line technology, I don't think that techology will do anything to enhance the enjoyment of the game for me, in fact, the way it is going it is like officiating by committee! Very, very sad.


I honestly think that after trialling VAR in the Premier league next season it will be scrapped.It is a total joke.

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Re: VAR

Postby ClaretTony » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:36 am

The Enclosure wrote:I honestly think that after trialling VAR in the Premier league next season it will be scrapped.It is a total joke.


I don’t think once it’s in there is any chance of it being scrapped. I’m not enthusiastic about it but am prepared to wait and see how we apply it in our league only then can it be judged.

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Re: VAR

Postby Vegas Claret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:59 am

no chance it's going to be scrapped and nor should it, it might take a season or maybe two to figure it out but it will be of benefit in the long run. They need to clarify to supporters that they already ditched the "clear and obvious" mistake rule though. At the moment they are all behaving like a bunch of YTS lads that don't have a clue how to use the tools they have been given, one gives a red card, the other doesn't, one says handball the other waves it away.

It's like they've all forgotten how to actually referee a game with common sense - as soon as they sort that out it will be ok, if they don't then like others have said above, I'll stop watching.
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Re: VAR

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:19 am

The Defenders left leg takes the back of the Attackers right leg, resulting in the break, it's a foul, quite possible that the intent to foul was there because there is no reason for the defenders leg to sweep forward like it did.
Most defenders would've normally landed with their left leg trailing behind him, anyone who's played football would do the same.

The ref didn't see it due to the speed of the incident, but on replay it's there to see and that's why the ref was told about it.

Overall it wasn't handled very well, but ultimately the decision is correct if an opposing player has potentially,or intentionally, injured/fouled someone.

If it happened in one of our games and was shown in the highlights or online after the game its an absolute fact there would be people on here spitting their dummies out, demanding the ref was fired etc for not spotting it initially, that's what VAR is all about really, to give the ref a chance to deal with something they may miss during a high speed game.

It's going to have some initial teething problems and a bedding in period, but most new things in football always do but once it's sorted then life will settle back down to disagreeing with a decision without the need to declare that someone is done with football etc etc.

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Re: VAR

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:51 am

All I'll say about it is that if the same very favourable results were been given to the host nation last summer, then everyone would be losing their **** in a big way.

Last year tournament VAR worked well, this one? Terrible

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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:02 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The Defenders left leg takes the back of the Attackers right leg, resulting in the break, it's a foul, quite possible that the intent to foul was there because there is no reason for the defenders leg to sweep forward like it did.
Most defenders would've normally landed with their left leg trailing behind him, anyone who's played football would do the same.

The ref didn't see it due to the speed of the incident, but on replay it's there to see and that's why the ref was told about it.

Overall it wasn't handled very well, but ultimately the decision is correct if an opposing player has potentially,or intentionally, injured/fouled someone.

If it happened in one of our games and was shown in the highlights or online after the game its an absolute fact there would be people on here spitting their dummies out, demanding the ref was fired etc for not spotting it initially, that's what VAR is all about really, to give the ref a chance to deal with something they may miss during a high speed game.

It's going to have some initial teething problems and a bedding in period, but most new things in football always do but once it's sorted then life will settle back down to disagreeing with a decision without the need to declare that someone is done with football etc etc.

So you think that is a red card? It's a complete accident

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Re: VAR

Postby arise_sir_charge » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:18 am

I think this thread shows why VAR is a terrible idea.

That is never a red card in a million years and yet you have some people somehow justifying why it was given as a red card.

I’ve complained about refs for years but I’d still prefer we let them get on with it than this abortion of a system.

It’s still wide open to different interpretations of the same event so what is the point?

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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:44 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:I think this thread shows why VAR is a terrible idea.

That is never a red card in a million years and yet you have some people somehow justifying why it was given as a red card.

I’ve complained about refs for years but I’d still prefer we let them get on with it than this abortion of a system.

It’s still wide open to different interpretations of the same event so what is the point?

I'm not sure why they chose to replay a severe leg break on the TV over and over again at teatime

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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:06 am

Worry not folks, they will just introduce more people into the VAR room to view the incident, perhaps also including the odd pundit, who generally struggles with the Laws anyway, and then they can make a committee decision ......meanwhile on the pitch.......

Personally, I think that the introduction of VAR will eventually result in players being afraid to tackle because they could well be penalised and this will lead to a glorified 5-a-side game with no contact allowed. It will not happen immediately but as new officials are trained and the game 'progresses' it will only be a matter of time.

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Re: VAR

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:54 pm

At least we’ll be able to deflect the blame for rank bad decisions onto VAR.

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Re: VAR

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

KRBFC wrote:So you think that is a red card? It's a complete accident


I think it was a foul, I've explained why in regards to the leg moving forward etc.

It's about opinion, the ref is the one that's made it and I'm willing to say it won't be rescinded either, but I don't agree with your opinion that he was told to issue it by someone else.

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Re: VAR

Postby GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:Worry not folks, they will just introduce more people into the VAR room to view the incident, perhaps also including the odd pundit, who generally struggles with the Laws anyway, and then they can make a committee decision ......meanwhile on the pitch.......

Personally, I think that the introduction of VAR will eventually result in players being afraid to tackle because they could well be penalised and this will lead to a glorified 5-a-side game with no contact allowed. It will not happen immediately but as new officials are trained and the game 'progresses' it will only be a matter of time.


People having been saying that players will be afraid to tackle for varying reasons for a number of years now yet it's still happening.

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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:53 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:People having been saying that players will be afraid to tackle for varying reasons for a number of years now yet it's still happening.


I didn't say anything about past years because the game has been played to Laws which onfield officials have been using for years.
VAR will make a difference, particularly, with new players and officials coming into the game and being taught that they must not be reckless, must not endanger an opponent etc., etc.
I said that it would not happen immediately, however, the number of tackles per season is declining rapidly over the last five seasons.

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Re: VAR

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:07 pm

You need to stop worrying about what might happen. It’s clearly winding you up.
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Re: VAR

Postby Darnhill Claret » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:04 pm

‘It’s a complete accident’. Think you might be mixing it up with that other offence of handball that also doesn’t exist. The offence is deliberate handball, although they are now seemingly adding some riders. All other offences do not have the prefix, deliberate. So accident or not it is an offence.

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Re: VAR

Postby Ashingtonclaret46 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:You need to stop worrying about what might happen. It’s clearly winding you up.


Quite wrong Bordeaux --I don't worry about it per se --I just let them get on with it regardless. Same goes with transfers etc. ---never worry about anything that you can't influence and that is 98% of your life and everything relating to football.

I have given up mentoring young referees because that would have been a cause for concern with the directives being given at a much higher level.
I have a good friend who has been in Switzerland giving a lecture to UEFA as to why referees drop out ---there is no easy answer to the question and he has researched the subject thoroughly and has just been promoted himself.
He worries about it ---I don't ---but I listen to him and give advice.

Ah well, enough for tonight, time for a relaxing wine while watching the exploits of our Under 21 team.

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Re: VAR

Postby aggi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:58 pm

A bizarre end to the Scotland v Argentina match.

Another penalty (awarded by VAR) that was retaken because the keeper came off the line that took nigh on ten minutes, finally scored in the 94th minutes, referee blew full time in the 95th minute and no-one realised it was full time as obviously there should have been loads more time to be played.

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Re: VAR

Postby KRBFC » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:01 pm

aggi wrote:A bizarre end to the Scotland v Argentina match.

Another penalty (awarded by VAR) that was retaken because the keeper came off the line that took nigh on ten minutes, finally scored in the 94th minutes, referee blew full time in the 95th minute and no-one realised it was full time as obviously there should have been loads more time to be played.

Scotland would have qualified with a win too, I think?

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Re: VAR

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:03 pm

What a ******* farce.

First of all the penalty is fine, and the retaking is fine. But what the **** happened to stoppage time?

Play stopped for the VAR review at 85:50 and the play resumed after the penalty was scored at 93:45 (give or take a few seconds because a replay was being shown) and the final whistle was blown at 95:08

What the ****?

Where did those missing ~7 minutes go?

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Re: VAR

Postby conyoviejo » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:06 pm

KRBFC wrote:Scotland would have qualified with a win too, I think?


The Scots have no luck . :D :D

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Re: VAR

Postby martin_p » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:10 pm

aggi wrote:A bizarre end to the Scotland v Argentina match.

Another penalty (awarded by VAR) that was retaken because the keeper came off the line that took nigh on ten minutes, finally scored in the 94th minutes, referee blew full time in the 95th minute and no-one realised it was full time as obviously there should have been loads more time to be played.


Another appalling use of VAR. A keeper being a couple of inches off their line, only visible by using a freeze frame, a clear and obvious error?

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Re: VAR

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:12 pm

martin_p wrote:Another appalling use of VAR. A keeper being a couple of inches off their line, only visible by using a freeze frame, a clear and obvious error?


I agree it wasn't clear and obvious, but it's still the keeper's fault for encroaching.

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boatshed bill
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Re: VAR

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:12 pm

martin_p wrote:Another appalling use of VAR. A keeper being a couple of inches off their line, only visible by using a freeze frame, a clear and obvious error?

If it stops most of the cheating I'm all for it. Goalkeepers have been cheating on penalties for years.

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Re: VAR

Postby martin_p » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:16 pm

boatshed bill wrote:If it stops most of the cheating I'm all for it. Goalkeepers have been cheating on penalties for years.


That’s fine when they are cheating, but when you move a millisecond early then I don’t think that can be considered intentional.

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aggi
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Re: VAR

Postby aggi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:16 pm

KRBFC wrote:Scotland would have qualified with a win too, I think?


I think either team would, they were both complaining to the referee that there should be more time.

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boatshed bill
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Re: VAR

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:18 pm

martin_p wrote:That’s fine when they are cheating, but when you move a millisecond early then I don’t think that can be considered intentional.


They are allowed to move, just keep one foot on the line. Seems fair enough to me.

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aggi
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Re: VAR

Postby aggi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:18 pm

boatshed bill wrote:If it stops most of the cheating I'm all for it. Goalkeepers have been cheating on penalties for years.


One of the commentators made a good point, this is how keepers have been training to save penalties for years. Expecting them to suddenly change is a bit tough.

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Re: VAR

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:18 pm

******* hell, it's even worse!

Here's a freeze frame from the game. This is Scotland in the middle of making a substitution and the referee has just blown the whistle for the free kick to be taken. You can see the Argentine player begin her run up in the background.

This is the free kick that leads to the penalty.

Image

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boatshed bill
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Re: VAR

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:25 pm

aggi wrote:One of the commentators made a good point, this is how keepers have been training to save penalties for years. Expecting them to suddenly change is a bit tough.

Yes, but they have been learning the best way to cheat.

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Re: VAR

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:27 pm

It's Scotland in a World Cup finals, so they're on their way home, but that was an entirely new way to be eliminated, blowing a 3-0 lead !

The Referee, from North Korea, was frankly, an absolute shocker !! Managed to book 3 Scottish players ( 2 kicking the ball away, & the keeper for moving at a penalty ), and missed or left unpunished countless elbows, violent pushes, scything tackles etc from Argentina, only booking 1 of their players. And then she blew up bang on 4 minutes stoppage time, having used at least an additional 5 minutes on VAR ... I'd have probably led the team off the pitch, if I'd have been the Scottish Manager, a disgrace ....

I'm both sober and English, in case you're wondering !

NB: I've just posted the above on another thread, and on this occasion, IT is absolutely correct !!

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Re: VAR

Postby Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:31 pm

I hope we or France offer that referee asylum because she's not going to survive back in DPRK after that embarrassment.

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Re: VAR

Postby NottsClaret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:38 pm

See how next season pans out but I’m already not that arsed about watching games with VAR.

Hopefully it settles down but just watching normal football at local non-league genuinely feels more appealing now than this pixel perfect sequence of TV clips.

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Tricky Trevor
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Re: VAR

Postby Tricky Trevor » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:45 pm

On the plus side there has been almost zero grappling in the penalty areas.


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