London again

[Wile E Coyote]

Crime, murder, and knifecrime was already on the up in the last two years Boris Johnson was mayor. The issue is clearly around austerity.

How has Khan been inept? I'm genuinely curious how you've arrived at that. He's not as big a self publicist as Livingstone or Johnson, but he's been dealing with bigger problems.

austerity !!!! you believe that , you'll believe anything.

[Lancasterclaret]

You are of course correct Andrew, there's one thing however that costs less than all of the things you listed, that is proper parenting. Personal responsibility is a learned behaviour and costs nothing to instil, manners and respect are free too.

This is true, but how many completely feckless parents are there?

Not that many

How many parents are there (single and couples) who are struggling like mad because of various policies and their kids see them struggling and look for a different way?

A hell of a lot more

[Wile E Coyote]

and if the financial and manpower resources suddenly became available, how ridiculous that the law abiding members of the communities have to sit back and watch it being squandered just to keep a ******* lid on that lot .

[boatshed bill]

Violent crime in London is nothing new, is it?
The Krays did some naughty stuff, and Jack The Ripper was handy with his knife.

[AndrewJB]

Stop and search by the police was stopped under his leadership i think.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Theresa May led the way against stop and search as Home Secretary, and Boris Johnson was the mayor.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not sure how your 2nd point is relevant to knife crime, and with regards to your first point, I feel sure that there are plenty of UK born Londoners who come into that bracket

Yeah plenty of Londoners born in the UK who're also brutal when it comes to crime, but they'll be raising their game to match tough criminal immigrants.

If you've got bored young people who won't take the lowly jobs, they'll find something else to do with their time...

[Stayingup]

What exactly should Khan be doing about this?

I see him blamed quite a bit. What should he be doing that he isn’t doing or that others have done previously?

He isnt doing anything except blaming cuts. Maybe he and maybe you should look at what other mayors (including Boris Jihnson) have done to reduce murder rates and other crime.

[aggi]

Violent crime in London is nothing new, is it?
The Krays did some naughty stuff, and Jack The Ripper was handy with his knife.

They were good British murderers though, not like those murdering foreigners.

[Stayingup]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Theresa May led the way against stop and search as Home Secretary, and Boris Johnson was the mayor.

Still at your political agenda I see. Grow up. Crime rates in London dropped under Johnson. Fact. So are you are wrong.

[bfcjg]

More police tougher laws smash the gangs make them know you commit murder you will never see the sunrise as a free person again.

[Imploding Turtle]

Ok, I’m not sure that’s in Khan’s remit to be honest.

Doesn't matter what is and isn't in his remit, certain types (racists) will blame him for it regardless.

This Tory government has slashed the police force, and somehow that's the Muslim's fault.

The murder rate isn't even that different from other years in London, but for some reason it's being focused on more, and it's presented as if the Tories are blameless.
According to the Sun(i know) up to June 16th there had been 56 murders in London. That's a lower rate than last year, and probably lower than London's average over the last 20 years or so.

[Colburn_Claret]

I've read some crap on here, I may even have written some myself on occasion, but people who blame stabbings on austerity have their heads up their arse. Being poor doesn't make people stab one another ffs.
There are far too few Police on the streets, but it doesn't make people stab each other. They do that because they are arseholes.

Knife crimes have risen because of the gang culture that prevails in modern Britain. To stop the stabbings you stop the gangs, by chucking the book at them. The lack of deterrent in our judicial system is waving a white flag at these morons. We need zero tolerance at a time when the PC brigade in this country, think anyone serving less than 6 months should be released because the prisons are too full.
Giuliani in New York, Ray Mallon in Boro, knew you dont sort these kids out with a carrot, you use a stick. Platitudes get you nowhere.

[Damo]

I wonder if Damo's been holding on to that line for a while and, when realising that no-one is suggesting not talking about it, has just decided sod it?

Are you just being silly or have I over-estimated you aggi?
I mean, obviously you are correct in the sense that nobody has actually said the exact words I posted. But to suggest that 6 or 7 contributers to the thread only care because it's a thread about other races (I know, suggesting that its "other races" who are doing all the stabbing, while calling other people racist is a bit of an oxymoron) or that anyone who criticises the mayor of London is only doing so because he's a Muslim, is doing exactly what I insinuated in my post

[Lancasterclaret]

The best way to combat all of this is to not talk about it. And to label anyone who does as racist/nazi/Hitler etc

Well, the best way to talk about it is to highlight those who are making points because they are clearly (as seen by a multitude of their posts) racists/nazis/Hitler etc and then disregard their posts AND then talk about the issues sensibly.

I mean, an actual PC in London has come on and told us all what the problems are before, but it doesn't fit in with certain peoples narratives (probably on both sides to be fair) and its been ignored.

Experts eh?

Welcome to Britain in 2019.

[Imploding Turtle]

I've read some crap on here, I may even have written some myself on occasion, but people who blame stabbings on austerity have their heads up their arse. Being poor doesn't make people stab one another ffs.
There are far too few Police on the streets, but it doesn't make people stab each other. They do that because they are arseholes.

Knife crimes have risen because of the gang culture that prevails in modern Britain. To stop the stabbings you stop the gangs, by chucking the book at them. The lack of deterrent in our judicial system is waving a white flag at these morons. We need zero tolerance at a time when the PC brigade in this country, think anyone serving less than 6 months should be released because the prisons are too full.
Giuliani in New York, Ray Mallon in Boro, knew you dont sort these kids out with a carrot, you use a stick. Platitudes get you nowhere.

How can you mock the idea that austerity leads to higher rates of crime, and at the same time think that there are too few police on the streets - a ******* consequence of austerity.

If there was more police on the streets what would their purpose be if not crime prevention? And if you accept that more police equals lower crime rates, and that fewer police is a consequence of austerity, then you must logically accept that austerity causes more crime. This isn't a difficult connect to make.

[Bordeauxclaret]

He isnt doing anything except blaming cuts. Maybe he and maybe you should look at what other mayors (including Boris Jihnson) have done to reduce murder rates and other crime.

What did they do?

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

I've read some crap on here, I may even have written some myself on occasion, but people who blame stabbings on austerity have their heads up their arse. Being poor doesn't make people stab one another ffs.
There are far too few Police on the streets, but it doesn't make people stab each other. They do that because they are arseholes.

Knife crimes have risen because of the gang culture that prevails in modern Britain. To stop the stabbings you stop the gangs, by chucking the book at them. The lack of deterrent in our judicial system is waving a white flag at these morons. We need zero tolerance at a time when the PC brigade in this country, think anyone serving less than 6 months should be released because the prisons are too full.
Giuliani in New York, Ray Mallon in Boro, knew you dont sort these kids out with a carrot, you use a stick. Platitudes get you nowhere.

Mallon introduced neighbourhood wardens who acted as intelligence gatherers. Sounds similar to jobs like community officers were doing before they lost their jobs. Austerity is just part of the mix into the rise of knife crime. Not quite sure why you blame the PC brigade for prisons being full? Also easier said than done just to arrest gang members you still have to convict them in a court of law plenty of evidence of cases collapsing due to witness and juror intimidation etc.

[AndrewJB]

Still at your political agenda I see. Grow up. Crime rates in London dropped under Johnson. Fact. So are you are wrong.

We all know Boris Johnson lies, and he's done no differently recently talking about his record as mayor. Below are some of his broken promises from his time as mayor:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... ndon-mayor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This isn't an agenda. Check the figures for yourself. Crime went down under Johnson initially, but went back up again in his last two years, when, since you don't believe in austerity related crime, I guess it must have been down to the fact he was a crap mayor?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47452799" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rather than choosing a link for you, here are a lot of different ones: https://www.google.co.uk/search?source= ... OHraAYLgig" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JohnMac]

15 year old in Luton stabbed 20 times at 2am.

Not preaching morality here but 15 year old and 2am?

It is so out of control this has become a normal story and was several articles after 'Worm with eyes in it's head and bottom discovered'.

Sad times we are in for sure.

[Murger]

What's the point in London having a mayor? If he can't be held responsible when it all goes tits up, it's an empty title.

[aggi]

Are you just being silly or have I over-estimated you aggi?
I mean, obviously you are correct in the sense that nobody has actually said the exact words I posted. But to suggest that 6 or 7 contributers to the thread only care because it's a thread about other races (I know, suggesting that its "other races" who are doing all the stabbing, while calling other people racist is a bit of an oxymoron) or that anyone who criticises the mayor of London is only doing so because he's a Muslim, is doing exactly what I insinuated in my post

Well a little silly but that's by the by.

The first person to bring up Khan's race was someone complaining that you couldn't blame him because of it (even though no-one had said that). You can see why it became an issue on the thread. The only people saying you can't criticise Khan because of his race are those who are criticising him. Maybe if there was a more constructive criticism of Khan it'd be easier to see why it's his fault.

The best way to combat this is to talk sensibly about it which plenty of posters are: the effect that things such as austerity have had (and how it can impact on some social groups more than others), ponder whether the correlation between decreasing police numbers and increasing crime rates means something, etc. Just because they may not be talking about it in the way that you want doesn't mean that it's not being talked about.

[gandhisflipflop]

Right back at you. I'm very glad that I don't have your mind set.

But you think its "superior" not to be what you are?

Jeez mate

No, I'm saying that your 'moral high ground' stance on non footballing subjects shows to be that you haven't got a clue because you are sheltered from a lot of things up in Lancaster.

[Imploding Turtle]

No, I'm saying that your 'moral high ground' stance on non footballing subjects shows to be that you haven't got a clue because you are sheltered from a lot of things up in Lancaster.

It's the ******* "liberal elites" argument. You have got **** all to argue with in terms of facts, or what you want the values of this country to be. All you have is your hatred for liberals.
You're pathetic.

Come on. Please say "ivory towers". Do that for me.

[AndyClaret]

Diversity is our strength or something.

[Imploding Turtle]

Diversity is our strength or something.

Your dog-whistle is audible to all of us.

[LS7]

Legalising drugs would be a good start. So much of the gang war is driven by Londoners' insatiable demand for Cocaine.

Also housing policy. People crammed into estates with little hope for the future.

And police numbers/ approach.

[tarkys_ears]

If anybody has time they should watch this. Akala a rapper/poet has several interviews regards this issue and offers a fantastic viewpoint on the issue. Below is one of the shorter interviews he has done on it.

Seen him on many topics and he is so eloquent and always lets others have their view. Why people like him arent running for governement are beyond me. He is one of many voices at present that really does speak sense.

Also crazy fact.....his sister is Miss Dynamite

https://youtu.be/6Huz1nx-j_Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....a human Parappa The Rapper!!!

[Colburn_Claret]

Mallon introduced neighbourhood wardens who acted as intelligence gatherers. Sounds similar to jobs like community officers were doing before they lost their jobs. Austerity is just part of the mix into the rise of knife crime. Not quite sure why you blame the PC brigade for prisons being full? Also easier said than done just to arrest gang members you still have to convict them in a court of law plenty of evidence of cases collapsing due to witness and juror intimidation etc.

I blame the PC brigade, because they have a warped idea that criminals should be understood and treated like they have an illness. They dont, they are just angry, nasty, mean, selfish bastards. The jails may be crowded, if that's true build more prisons, because it's a disease that cant be treated with soft gloves. Gangs laugh at the justice system because it is so weak and the only way to stop them is to stop them laughing. When these people start getting some real jail time, then they dont look so clever, or hard, to the sheep that follow them.
Austerity isnt something new. People of an older generation had it far worse. They grew up in a generation that had next to nowt, but their neighbours and friends had next to nowt as well. They didn't start stabbing each other. Poverty is never an excuse for violence, never. The real problem is these peoples feeling that they are entitled to an easy life. Somewhere along the way society has built these people up to expect more than they are capable of earning, and they dont like it. They get given so much for free, and all they want is more. I'm sure it's not the only reason, peer pressure, kudos, whatever the reason, there is one simple solution. Lock them up.

[Colburn_Claret]

How can you mock the idea that austerity leads to higher rates of crime, and at the same time think that there are too few police on the streets - a ******* consequence of austerity.

If there was more police on the streets what would their purpose be if not crime prevention? And if you accept that more police equals lower crime rates, and that fewer police is a consequence of austerity, then you must logically accept that austerity causes more crime. This isn't a difficult connect to make.

I do think there should be more police on the beat
It makes people feel more secure.
It gives the Bobby an opportunity to get to know his neighbourhood, young and old
As a presence it's easier for people to have a quiet word about kids getting up to no good. A quick tongue lashing at the right age can prevent greater problems along the line.

But Bobbies have been disappearing from the streets for the last 50 years. This isnt new, it isnt austerity, and it certainly isnt the reason people go round stabbing each other. You're putting 2 and 2 together and coming up 6. The people who commit these crimes are bastards, you could double the number of police, and they'd still be bastards. How does that solve the problem.

[Lancasterclaret]

No, I'm saying that your 'moral high ground' stance on non footballing subjects shows to be that you haven't got a clue because you are sheltered from a lot of things up in Lancaster.

Nope, it just means that I'm not a ****.

And its not a "moral high ground", its what normal people do.

[Imploding Turtle]

I blame the PC brigade, because they have a warped idea that criminals should be understood and treated like they have an illness.

Bullshit.

They dont, they are just angry, nasty, mean, selfish bastards. The jails may be crowded, if that's true build more prisons, because it's a disease that cant be treated with soft gloves.

Now you're calling it an illness?

Gangs laugh at the justice system because it is so weak and the only way to stop them is to stop them laughing. When these people start getting some real jail time, then they dont look so clever, or hard, to the sheep that follow them.

Longer jail sentences. lol. Sure. That'll solve it. I mean, it hasn't in the past but i'm sure this time that will be the solution.

Austerity isnt something new.

Neither are gangs or knife crime. But there's a correlation between increased poverty and increased crime, and there's a correlation between increased austerity and increased poverty.

People of an older generation had it far worse.

Ticking all the stupid boxes here, aren't we? Older generations had it worse, yes, so you lot keep saying, and there was a higher ******* crime rate then too.

They grew up in a generation that had next to nowt, but their neighbours and friends had next to nowt as well. They didn't start stabbing each other. Poverty is never an excuse for violence, never.

No one is saying it's an excuse, you simple-minded *******. No one is saying that being poor excuses you for murder. We're saying that being poor makes it more likely that you will be a criminal. We're saying let's reduce poverty to in-turn reduce crime.

The real problem is these peoples feeling that they are entitled to an easy life.

lol

Somewhere along the way society has built these people up to expect more than they are capable of earning, and they dont like it. They get given so much for free, and all they want is more. I'm sure it's not the only reason, peer pressure, kudos, whatever the reason, there is one simple solution. Lock them up.

lol. A simple solution. Lock them up. Wow. Why didn't anyone ever think of that before. It's just so simple. Lock up all murderers. Jeez. We're in the presence of a ******* visionary here, boy and girls.
I mean, we could provide our kids with adequate education and social programs that keep them away from gangs, or we could just let them fall prey to gang culture and then lock them up forever. It's so easy. So simple. Don't prevent crime, let victims die and then just imprison their killers. Why did we not think of that before?

[AndrewJB]

It’s the crime and policing version of the laffers curve. “If you really want to reduce crime what you need to do is cut policing numbers”

[fanzone]

Look at the people involved and say it how it is, third work people third world crime, our capital city is a mess.

[Rileybobs]

Are you just being silly or have I over-estimated you aggi?
I mean, obviously you are correct in the sense that nobody has actually said the exact words I posted. But to suggest that 6 or 7 contributers to the thread only care because it's a thread about other races (I know, suggesting that its "other races" who are doing all the stabbing, while calling other people racist is a bit of an oxymoron) or that anyone who criticises the mayor of London is only doing so because he's a Muslim, is doing exactly what I insinuated in my post

Ah you were making your silly point about my post. Why didn’t you quote me?

I have no problem with people talking about this or any other issues. What I find telling is that there are a number of posters (I made up 6 or 7, there’s probably more) who appear to make the majority of their contributions to this board on threads regarding race. I hardly ever see these posters appear on football related threads.

They make very thinly veiled comments with a clear racial prejudice but do it in a sneaky cowardly way so that it’s difficult for them to be called out for what they are.

But when you see these posters make these snide comments time and time again the weight of probability shifts towards them being racist which I now have no doubt that they are.

They know who they are and I think you, and the majority of other posters on this board, know who they are. But go ahead, call out the person for calling out racists. Are you a racist sympathiser?

[Taffy on the wing]

We should get Donald Trump as sheriff he’s shown over the pond how to clear up violence in big cities.

You ARE having a laugh?....Right?

[gandhisflipflop]

You're pathetic.

Oh the irony.

[Imploding Turtle]

Look at the people involved and say it how it is, third work people third world crime, our capital city is a mess.

But don't you dare call him racist, because then that word just has no meaning any more.

[Colburn_Claret]

Bullshit.



Now you're calling it an illness?



Longer jail sentences. lol. Sure. That'll solve it. I mean, it hasn't in the past but i'm sure this time that will be the solution.




Neither are gangs or knife crime. But there's a correlation between increased poverty and increased crime, and there's a correlation between increased austerity and increased poverty.


Ticking all the stupid boxes here, aren't we? Older generations had it worse, yes, so you lot keep saying, and there was a higher ******* crime rate then too.



No one is saying it's an excuse, you simple-minded *******. No one is saying that being poor excuses you for murder. We're saying that being poor makes it more likely that you will be a criminal. We're saying let's reduce poverty to in-turn reduce crime.



lol



lol. A simple solution. Lock them up. Wow. Why didn't anyone ever think of that before. It's just so simple. Lock up all murderers. Jeez. We're in the presence of a ******* visionary here, boy and girls.
I mean, we could provide our kids with adequate education and social programs that keep them away from gangs, or we could just let them fall prey to gang culture and then lock them up forever. It's so easy. So simple. Don't prevent crime, let victims die and then just imprison their killers. Why did we not think of that before?

I'd just like to say thanks for proving what a ******* idiot you are. Maybe you are so out of touch because the real world is something you avoid like the plague.
Maybe you are just so young that you've never known what it means to have to do without.
Maybe you just like spouting bullshit to try and get a rise out of people.
Either way you really don't have a clue on how to deal with the problems of knife crime in this country.

[AndyClaret]

Your dog-whistle is audible to all of us.

So it's not our strength, who knew ? you should be celebrating, this is what you want.

[evensteadiereddie]

He's right in the sense that locking these perpetrators up is not the solution to the problem.
It might be one but, as we've seen, prison sentences of whatever length are hardly the ultimate deterrent. The cycle of crime these youths become involved in has to be broken but to begin to do that in any serious manner will involve potentially unpopular - vote losing - political decisions and appropriate resources.
The government , deliberately or accidentally via public funding cuts - austerity - has made crime in London and beyond a worrying issue for many ordinary people.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Aye, try doing it sometime.

How you mean ed ? Or are you just frothing again

[claretonthecoast1882]

Had this video clip been 30-40 England fans in Portugal the other week trying to rob someone doing his job it is safe to say not 1 single person on here who rushes out to defend the criminals would be defending them or blaming the Tories or blaming no youth centre or blaming austerity, they would be labelling them **** as they often do on here.

[Rileybobs]

Had this video clip been 30-40 England fans in Portugal the other week trying to rob someone doing his job it is safe to say not 1 single person on here who rushes out to defend the criminals would be defending them or blaming the Tories or blaming no youth centre or blaming austerity, they would be labelling them **** as they often do on here.

By exactly the same measure, the racists on this thread wouldn’t be condemning the football hooligans.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Interesting comparison, those on here defending this are no better than racists or football hooligans

[Rileybobs]

Interesting comparison, those on here defending this are no better than racists or football hooligans

I didn’t say they were. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I didn’t say they were. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy.

Apologies I must have missed your other posts on here

[aggi]

In terms of the police cuts element, an article in the New York Times about it
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/01/worl ... erity.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Rileybobs]

Apologies I must have missed your other posts on here

Would you care to point out in which of my posts have defended the perpetrators of this crime? I haven't even passed comment about the video in the OP.

[Imploding Turtle]

I'd just like to say thanks for proving what a ******* idiot you are. Maybe you are so out of touch because the real world is something you avoid like the plague.
Maybe you are just so young that you've never known what it means to have to do without.
Maybe you just like spouting bullshit to try and get a rise out of people.
Either way you really don't have a clue on how to deal with the problems of knife crime in this country.

I notice you didn't bother addressing anything I actually said, after i took down your post point by point. All you did is name-call (i thought you people hated that), and then begin another round of Let's Speculate About Imploding Turtle's Personal Life, which is something you lot love to do.

[nil_desperandum]

Interesting comparison, those on here defending this are no better than racists or football hooligans

Has anyone on here actually defended the perpetrators of knife crime? I'll be very surprised if they have.