London again

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Imploding Turtle
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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:17 pm

AndyClaret wrote:So it's not our strength, who knew ? you should be celebrating, this is what you want.

Being subtly racist was never your strength. Your strength was screeching about being called a racist because of it.

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Re: London again

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:20 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Has anyone on here actually defended the perpetrators of knife crime? I'll be very surprised if they have.

When people excuse these kind of crimes by saying it is because pf police cuts, it is because of austerity, it is because of youth centres closing I would say that is defending their behaviour yes. If I had told one of my kids they couldn't go somewhere should I have been expecting them to go out and stab someone or shoot someone ?

If you asked a family member why did you stab that person and they said well I couldn't see a copper, what would your reaction be ?

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Re: London again

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:24 pm

I am so glad you posted that Charlie

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Re: London again

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:25 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:When people excuse these kind of crimes by saying it is because pf police cuts, it is because of austerity, it is because of youth centres closing I would say that is defending their behaviour yes. If I had told one of my kids they couldn't go somewhere should I have been expecting them to go out and stab someone or shoot someone ?

If you asked a family member why did you stab that person and they said well I couldn't see a copper, what would your reaction be ?
It's not an excuse, it's a possible reason why it's happening.

I've no issue with throwing the book at those who commit the crimes. However, let's not leave it at that as some such as Colburn_Claret suggest. Let's try and find the underlying reasons and fix them.

If reversing cuts in youth services or having more police on the streets then it's a win-win for everyone. Fewer people being stabbed, fewer people being sent to jail, less spent on treating those who are stabbed and investigating the crimes, etc.

No-one is saying that those committing the crimes should be excused because of cuts to youth services, police numbers or whatever.
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Imploding Turtle
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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 pm

Seriously! How ******* stupid do you have to be to see one person ask:

"Why does crime seem to be rising?"

And see a response of:

"Well, some contributing factors include cuts to crime prevention, cuts to education, cuts to youth programs that keep kids away from criminality"

and read:

"It's not the murderer's fault, it's austerity".


You have to be thick as pig **** to think anything like that is being said when we talk about what contributes towards increased crime.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I am so glad you posted that Charlie

Apparently you needed it.

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Re: London again

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:30 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Apparently you needed it.

We will see

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:40 pm

aggi wrote:It's not an excuse, it's a possible reason why it's happening.

I've no issue with throwing the book at those who commit the crimes. However, let's not leave it at that as some such as Colburn_Claret suggest. Let's try and find the underlying reasons and fix them.

If reversing cuts in youth services or having more police on the streets then it's a win-win for everyone. Fewer people being stabbed, fewer people being sent to jail, less spent on treating those who are stabbed and investigating the crimes, etc.

No-one is saying that those committing the crimes should be excused because of cuts to youth services, police numbers or whatever.
One thing that's amazing to me is that those people who are always going on about "think of the victims" when liberals talk about people having the right to a free and fair trial are suddenly completely indifferent to the victims of crime when it comes to actually trying to prevent it. They suddenly don't give a ****. All they care about is how harsh the punishment is for the perpetrator. And that's kind of a running theme with them.


Having harsher sentences doesn't prevent crime, it just keeps individual criminals off streets longer. If a gang loses a murderer to a prison sentence do we really think that gang will be like, "oh, damn. Little Tommy got banged up for 40 years so i guess we'll just have to wait till he's out"? Of ******* course not, they'll just recruit a replacement.
Those of us who are saying that social programs, education, community policing all help in reducing crime are saying that because they make it harder for gangs to recruit replacements. So when we say "austerity causes crime" that's what we're talking about.

Any one who takes in our argument and comes back with "When people excuse these kind of crimes ..." they demonstrate that they are not debating in good faith. They know we're not excusing anything, but they're too lazy or too stupid to make any kind of counterpoint and instead they just want to smear their opponents with a lie.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:41 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:We will see
I better remove the last three words. I know how offended you people get and think maybe you're glad i posted it because you wanted to report me for something.

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Re: London again

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I better remove the last three words. I know how offended you people get and think maybe you're glad i posted it because you wanted to report me for something.

I don't want to report you

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Re: London again

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:18 pm

I don't pretend to have the answer to this problem but anyone who says that it is at least in part due to a Gang/Drugs culture would in my view be wrong.

However,I recently watched a very interesting piece on BBC London News where a Youth worker who ran a Youth Club explained what he had been doing to get young children and teenagers off the streets and then get them engaged in more meaningful pursuits like sport. He also explained how he had been working with the local Police who were regular visitors to the Centre, not to lay down the law, but to get to know the local children of the area. This had a couple of obvious benefits; firstly it broke down barriers between the Police and the local Youths. Put simply they got to know each other which had a secondary benefit when the Police were looking at groups of kids on street corners the chances were that they would know at least a couple of them and would be able to engage with them on a much more friendly basis than hitherto.

Needless to say Tory austerity had meant the Centre was now closed.
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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Corky wrote:I don't pretend to have the answer to this problem but anyone who says that it is at least in part due to a Gang/Drugs culture would in my view be wrong.

However,I recently watched a very interesting piece on BBC London News where a Youth worker who ran a Youth Club explained what he had been doing to get young children and teenagers off the streets and then get them engaged in more meaningful pursuits like sport. He also explained how he had been working with the local Police who were regular visitors to the Centre, not to lay down the law, but to get to know the local children of the area. This had a couple of obvious benefits; firstly it broke down barriers between the Police and the local Youths. Put simply they got to know each other which had a secondary benefit when the Police were looking at groups of kids on street corners the chances were that they would know at least a couple of them and would be able to engage with them on a much more friendly basis than hitherto.

Needless to say Tory austerity had meant the Centre was now closed.
You might need to clean up the first sentence of your post. Taken literally it says that Gang/drug culture plays no part.

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Re: London again

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:26 pm

Thanks IT. Yes I mean the Gang/Drugs culture plays a big part in the problem.

According to my Daughter who is a Teacher in a North London Secondary School the County Lines kids could earn £500 a day, that has now gone up to £2000 a day.

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Re: London again

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:25 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Being subtly racist was never your strength. Your strength was screeching about being called a racist because of it.
Why aren't you celebrating this wonderful diversity ? it must be like a socialist utopia to you !

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:27 pm

AndyClaret wrote:Why aren't you celebrating this wonderful diversity ? it must be like a socialist utopia to you !
What makes you think I'm not celebrating diversity?

And what has socialism got to do with diversity? Are you just shouting out all the alt-right buzzwords you know?

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:30 pm

Remember, people. Austerity doesn't cause crime, diversity does. According to alt-right-Andy here.

#TotallyNotRacistThough

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I notice you didn't bother addressing anything I actually said, after i took down your post point by point. All you did is name-call (i thought you people hated that), and then begin another round of Let's Speculate About Imploding Turtle's Personal Life, which is something you lot love to do.
I'll make it simple for you
On every point you spouted utter ********. I dont feel the need to prove it, because even if I had an affidavit from Jesus Christ himself, you, being who you are, would argue the toss.

By the way I'm not one of them lot, I dont even know who them lot are. I'm me.

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Re: London again

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Remember, people. Austerity doesn't cause crime, diversity does. According to alt-right-Andy here.

#TotallyNotRacistThough
If i'm alt-right, then you are a far left, anti-semite.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:04 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I'll make it simple for you
On every point you spouted utter ********. I dont feel the need to prove it, because even if I had an affidavit from Jesus Christ himself, you, being who you are, would argue the toss.

By the way I'm not one of them lot, I dont even know who them lot are. I'm me.

I'm not asking you to prove it, i'm just asking you to defend your argument. It's clear to me that you can't, otherwise you would have already.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:07 pm

AndyClaret wrote:If i'm alt-right, then you are a far left, anti-semite.

The difference being that you won't find a single example of either me being far-left or anti-semitic. But your bad attempt at dog-whistling your racism shows you to be a racist.

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Re: London again

Post by AndyClaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:42 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:The difference being that you won't find a single example of either me being far-left or anti-semitic. But your bad attempt at dog-whistling your racism shows you to be a racist.
with you, it's not always what you say, it's what you don't say that gives it away.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:59 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm not asking you to prove it, i'm just asking you to defend your argument. It's clear to me that you can't, otherwise you would have already.
I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, and easy targets for a much bigger problem.
Society has been breaking down for generations, this is now a culture issue, and if it's taken 40 years to get here, it will probably take 40 years to get out of it.
In this sub culture there are the leaders and the sheep. The leaders like to hide behind the sheep. To deal with it you have to separate the two. Catch the leaders and put them in quarantine, by jailing the bastards for as long as it takes. There is no easy cure for the problems of knives, but it is possible to take the problem off the streets. Stop and search.........whatever it takes. If it means law abiding citizens can walk the streets in safety , without fear anything is worth it. You dont solve it with kid gloves, that's partly what got us here in the first place. Lack of parental guidance and responsibility, banning corporal punishment in schools, the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood, a judicial system so soft it's a joke. To one or more degree they've all played a part in getting us to where we are today.
Lack of Police and austerity...nah
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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:14 am

AndyClaret wrote:with you, it's not always what you say, it's what you don't say that gives it away.
:lol:

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:...
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, ...

Yes. Far too simplistic, which is why no one is saying that it is the only thing to blame. You're taking a nuanced view and turning it into an un-nuanced opinion by misinterpreting it and then you're attacking it as too simplistic. That's ******* stupid.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:55 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Yes. Far too simplistic, which is why no one is saying that it is the only thing to blame. You're taking a nuanced view and turning it into an un-nuanced opinion by misinterpreting it and then you're attacking it as too simplistic. That's ******* stupid.
If you think people haven't been blaming austerity and a lack of police you haven't been reading the thread.

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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:00 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, and easy targets for a much bigger problem.
Society has been breaking down for generations, this is now a culture issue, and if it's taken 40 years to get here, it will probably take 40 years to get out of it.
In this sub culture there are the leaders and the sheep. The leaders like to hide behind the sheep. To deal with it you have to separate the two. Catch the leaders and put them in quarantine, by jailing the bastards for as long as it takes. There is no easy cure for the problems of knives, but it is possible to take the problem off the streets. Stop and search.........whatever it takes. If it means law abiding citizens can walk the streets in safety , without fear anything is worth it. You dont solve it with kid gloves, that's partly what got us here in the first place. Lack of parental guidance and responsibility, banning corporal punishment in schools, the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood, a judicial system so soft it's a joke. To one or more degree they've all played a part in getting us to where we are today.
Lack of Police and austerity...nah
Jesus. You actually contradict yourself in your ********.

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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:02 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:If you think people haven't been blaming austerity and a lack of police you haven't been reading the thread.
Its not the first time or the last time that Colburn has read what he wants to read and reacted occasionally.

Sod rational debate on here, I'm just going to take the **** out of the blatant racists and the not very bright.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:21 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Jesus. You actually contradict yourself in your ********.
How?

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Re: London again

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:36 am

Reading this thread a new I love how a group of posters has completely chosen to ignore the only person with first hand, front line professional experience on the subject.
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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:55 am

CombatClaret wrote:Reading this thread a new I love how a group of posters has completely chosen to ignore the only person with first hand, front line professional experience on the subject.
Doesn't fit in with what they believe. If anything the last three years have taught us, belief now trumps facts.

But it is entertaining watching bright (and not so bright) posters tying themselves in knots trying to ignore facts because it clashes with what they believe.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:40 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Doesn't fit in with what they believe. If anything the last three years have taught us, belief now trumps facts.

But it is entertaining watching bright (and not so bright) posters tying themselves in knots trying to ignore facts because it clashes with what they believe.
What facts.
You say there is a lack of Police and austerity, which is a fact.
Then you say that knife crime and gang related incidents are on the rise, which is another fact.
Then you correlate and blame one on the other. That isn't a fact, that's opinion.

While we would all like to see more Police, it's not just the lack of numbers that is the problem, it's how they are used. The lack of community policing is a massive part of that, as others have said. A face on the street that is known to locals is a hundred times more effective than some faceless copper flying past at 60mph in his souped up motor.
While austerity is a problem for people, being poor has been with us for ever, it didn't put a knife in the hand of older generations, and if it was simply a case of austerity then why is it only the young that go round committing knife crimes, old and middle aged people suffer from austerity just as much, if not more.

So your facts are no more than taking someones opinion, and agreeing with it, against someones opinion you dont agree with.

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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:04 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:What facts.
You say there is a lack of Police and austerity, which is a fact.
Then you say that knife crime and gang related incidents are on the rise, which is another fact.
Then you correlate and blame one on the other. That isn't a fact, that's opinion.

While we would all like to see more Police, it's not just the lack of numbers that is the problem, it's how they are used. The lack of community policing is a massive part of that, as others have said. A face on the street that is known to locals is a hundred times more effective than some faceless copper flying past at 60mph in his souped up motor.
While austerity is a problem for people, being poor has been with us for ever, it didn't put a knife in the hand of older generations, and if it was simply a case of austerity then why is it only the young that go round committing knife crimes, old and middle aged people suffer from austerity just as much, if not more.

So your facts are no more than taking someones opinion, and agreeing with it, against someones opinion you dont agree with.
More a general point of the last three years to be fair. Plenty of facts on other subjects like Brexit that you ignore without a care in the word (but you are not alone in that)

No one is daft enough to think its just one thing (ie the Mayor of Londons fault, black people, gangs, even lack of police) but overall the lack of money into public services (which is proven to reduce crime) is having a serious effect. And it won't get better till that is sorted. I'd go as far to say that its the main reason (but I'm willing to hear from those who know a lot more about it)

And there is a reason you don't see much middle aged and old age knife crime!

I agree with you that parents can do more (but only when they have the time, the money and the skills, which is back towards cuts in social care) and that we need tougher sentences on knife crime, but (again) I'm willing to listen to those who know more about this than me.

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Re: London again

Post by Damo » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:11 am

If your opinion supports remaining in the EU, then it automatically becomes a fact.
That is something I have learned in the past 3 years
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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:16 am

Damo wrote:If your opinion supports remaining in the EU, then it automatically becomes a fact.
That is something I have learned in the past 3 years
Nope

But thats is where we are.

You (and others) don't like the EU (for whatever reason, and you are perfectly entitled to that)

I don't particularly care either way, but I do know enough of how trade/logistics/jobs/economies work, so I go with the option that doesn't threaten that.

If Brexit could be done without threatening that, I wouldn't be that bothered (but still would think it was fairly pointless)

Problem is with the red lines that we have decided to give ourselves, we can't guarantee that, so I'm against it.

I get far more annoyed at the blatant racism on here than I do about the Brexit arguments

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Re: London again

Post by aggi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:44 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, and easy targets for a much bigger problem.
Society has been breaking down for generations, this is now a culture issue, and if it's taken 40 years to get here, it will probably take 40 years to get out of it.
In this sub culture there are the leaders and the sheep. The leaders like to hide behind the sheep. To deal with it you have to separate the two. Catch the leaders and put them in quarantine, by jailing the bastards for as long as it takes. There is no easy cure for the problems of knives, but it is possible to take the problem off the streets. Stop and search.........whatever it takes. If it means law abiding citizens can walk the streets in safety , without fear anything is worth it. You dont solve it with kid gloves, that's partly what got us here in the first place. Lack of parental guidance and responsibility, banning corporal punishment in schools, the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood, a judicial system so soft it's a joke. To one or more degree they've all played a part in getting us to where we are today.
Lack of Police and austerity...nah
Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?
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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:46 pm

aggi wrote:Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?
I applaud your endeavours here Aggi, but mentioning he's contradicting himself and him asking "Why" suggests you'll get nowhere.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:02 pm

Damo wrote:If your opinion supports remaining in the EU, then it automatically becomes a fact.
That is something I have learned in the past 3 years
He says, expressing an anti-remainer opinion as if it was fact.

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Re: London again

Post by Grumps » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:43 pm

Something fishy going on, non abusive, non sarcastic, or anything else that's against forum rules posts, being deleted. All I would politely ask is for is an explanation

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Re: London again

Post by TsarBomba » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:46 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:While we would all like to see more Police, it's not just the lack of numbers that is the problem, it's how they are used.
How have you come to this conclusion? Genuinely interested.

Five years ago, I was on a well resourced Safer Neighbourhood Team. I was allocated a ward, and along with 5/6 other PC’s and PCSO’s, we would be out there, everyday, on foot, on bikes, in mini buses.

We would know the problem addresses, the local kids, the areas they would hang out. We knew where drug dealing and taking was rife, and put plain clothes officers out there at peak times.

We would close down brothels, conduct warrants, in short, we would do everything we could to deter and disrupt crime. We took great pride in our ward, and we would go to ward panel meetings and face the local residents on a monthly basis, and if there was an issue that needed tackling, we would know about it.

Fast forward 5 years, and things couldn’t be more different. Safer neighbourhood teams are a shadow of what they were. I would estimate 2/3 of officers/resources from SNT have been drafted in to support response teams, because ultimately, if we can’t fulfil our core responsibility of answering 999 calls, then we truly have utterly failed. Our answer to dealing with ASB now is to drive past on blue lights en route to another call in the hope of scaring the kids off. It’s utterly laughable.

We have cars with 150k on the clock, which continuously break down, and computer systems that are archaic and don’t work.

In my 12 years as a PC, I have never seen Policing, and the wider Public Services in such a desperate state as they are now. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING has been cut to the bone. Policing, London Ambulance Service, Probation, Prison Service, Mental Health services, and it has all contributed to the sharp rise in violent crime.

Until Central Government acknowledge this, which clearly they won’t, and reverse the cuts to Public Services, then the senseless violence will continue. Of course, there will always be violence, but not to this magnitude.

At some point, something will need to give.
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Re: London again

Post by Devils_Advocate » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 pm

Good post Tsar but your wasting your time on the idiots on this board like Quickenthetempo, Claretsonthecoast1882, Lord Rothbury, Ghandhisflipflop, Clarets4me, Stayinup, AndyClaret and ColburnClaret.

This board really is going more and more downhill by the day with the levels of bigotry and ignorance that is getting posted and regurgitated endlessly.

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Re: London again

Post by Swizzlestick » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 pm

TsarBomba’s post is all you need to read. Reality rather than ideology.
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Re: London again

Post by Lancasterclaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:43 pm

Just posting to bring the post back to the top of the board so those who have expressed opinions on this can read the facts.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:47 pm

TsarBomba wrote:How have you come to this conclusion? Genuinely interested.

Five years ago, I was on a well resourced Safer Neighbourhood Team. I was allocated a ward, and along with 5/6 other PC’s and PCSO’s, we would be out there, everyday, on foot, on bikes, in mini buses.

We would know the problem addresses, the local kids, the areas they would hang out. We knew where drug dealing and taking was rife, and put plain clothes officers out there at peak times.

We would close down brothels, conduct warrants, in short, we would do everything we could to deter and disrupt crime. We took great pride in our ward, and we would go to ward panel meetings and face the local residents on a monthly basis, and if there was an issue that needed tackling, we would know about it.

Fast forward 5 years, and things couldn’t be more different. Safer neighbourhood teams are a shadow of what they were. I would estimate 2/3 of officers/resources from SNT have been drafted in to support response teams, because ultimately, if we can’t fulfil our core responsibility of answering 999 calls, then we truly have utterly failed. Our answer to dealing with ASB now is to drive past on blue lights en route to another call in the hope of scaring the kids off. It’s utterly laughable.

We have cars with 150k on the clock, which continuously break down, and computer systems that are archaic and don’t work.

In my 12 years as a PC, I have never seen Policing, and the wider Public Services in such a desperate state as they are now. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING has been cut to the bone. Policing, London Ambulance Service, Probation, Prison Service, Mental Health services, and it has all contributed to the sharp rise in violent crime.

Until Central Government acknowledge this, which clearly they won’t, and reverse the cuts to Public Services, then the senseless violence will continue. Of course, there will always be violence, but not to this magnitude.

At some point, something will need to give.
I appreciate all you say, and all you do or try to do. We see the problem in the same way, only with your inside knowledge you blame lack of funding. I cant argue the point as I believe you're telling the truth.
Although I congratulate anyone joining the specials, especially as they are taking an active part in trying to improve their community, I think rather like teaching assistants they are just a cheap alternative to the real thing. Real Coppers, walking their community, and building bridges. I said in an earlier post that things have been going downhill for 40 years, and it could take 40 years to get it back again, and rebuild community spirit.
The way to turn your problem around is to garner public opinion and the press, and make yourselves the biggest pain in the arse to whichever government is sitting. You cant do it on your own, and even though the police are supposed to be apolitical, you have a right and a responsibility to defend the public. Even if the Government is determined to hamstring you. Lobby those MPs who are on your side, support them at the ballot box, let the public know what you are doing and why. They cant ignore you forever.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:16 pm

aggi wrote:Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?
I would have said it's not the money, but how its spent.
From over a decade in the NHS, I watched an institution that was run by a Senior Surgeon, Doctor and a Matron, get overrun with secretaries and pen pushers. Lots more money spent on the NHS, but no extra nurses, no extra beds.
I imagine the Police went through something similar in the 70s onwards. Everything written in triplicate, and Bobbies going from the beat to a desk.
There are other factors, culminating with our crap system of justice. Many years ago now I read of a young lad going before the magistrates for his 20th ASBO. Now common sense to me says that if the first 19 ASBOs didn't deter him, the 20th was a waste of time as well. Yet everytime he broke the law, some Police Officer had to attend the scene, had to type the report (in triplicate), had to attend the magistrates to give testimony, and for what. That isnt making the best use of a PO time, and the system at present does nothing to improve it. ECJ, Human Rights, our own policies and procedures, and the left wing zealots, combine to make a Coppers job far more difficult and time consuming than it need be. You add it all together and it's hardly surprising we dont see Coppers on the beat, yet that is what we need if we are to improve the crime figures. That includes the judicial system getting more repeat offenders off the street and banged up. The cost of keeping these Scallies in prison, is a pittance to what it costs to keep re arresting, re charging and then re releasing them. Add the costs of the Solicitors, Lawyers, magistrates, witnesses insurance pay outs. The human cost of the victims of these criminals hasn't come into it yet. Building more prisons is cost effective and would leave us all feeling a little bit safer. It would also free up Police officers to do what they are supposed to be doing, which is preventing crime. If that still leaves us in need of more Police Officers then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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Re: London again

Post by CombatClaret » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:33 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:Although I congratulate anyone joining the specials, especially as they are taking an active part in trying to improve their community, I think rather like teaching assistants they are just a cheap alternative to the real thing. Real Coppers, walking their community, and building bridges.
:shock: :roll:

Tsar just explained in detail exactly how he and his fellows walked their community and built bridges...

When the ambulance comes for you will you deny it because the paramedics are just a cheap alternative to REAL doctors?
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Re: London again

Post by Lord Rothbury » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:27 pm

CombatClaret wrote::shock: :roll:

Tsar just explained in detail exactly how he and his fellows walked their community and built bridges...

When the ambulance comes for you will you deny it because the paramedics are just a cheap alternative to REAL doctors?
Some on here might say they would be better off building youth clubs than bridges.

Maybe a return to using the birch may have a more positive effect.

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Re: London again

Post by Imploding Turtle » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:31 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Some on here might say they would be better off building youth clubs than bridges.

Maybe a return to using the birch may have a more positive effect.
The point is that they're not building either any more, since their funding was cut and their jobs had gone. So now they're not preventing crime, because of austerity, which means crime will rise.

This is primary school level mathematics, i'm sure you can understand it if you try really hard.

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Re: London again

Post by Quickenthetempo » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:41 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Good post Tsar but your wasting your time on the idiots on this board like Quickenthetempo, Claretsonthecoast1882, Lord Rothbury, Ghandhisflipflop, Clarets4me, Stayinup, AndyClaret and ColburnClaret.

This board really is going more and more downhill by the day with the levels of bigotry and ignorance that is getting posted and regurgitated endlessly.
Time to change your username. You're about as popular on here as the clap.

I'm sure if you read my previous posts over the years you would see plenty of anger at Theresa May for destroying the police force.

But carry on trying to get reactions if it makes you feel worthwhile.

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Re: London again

Post by Colburn_Claret » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:09 am

CombatClaret wrote::shock: :roll:

Tsar just explained in detail exactly how he and his fellows walked their community and built bridges...

When the ambulance comes for you will you deny it because the paramedics are just a cheap alternative to REAL doctors?
Paramedics are trained to first response, they do hold qualifications . The same cant be said of teaching assistants or specials. Theres no way of saying it without sounding as if I'm pulling them down, and that isnt what I'm trying to do. Anyone who puts himself out to try and help his community should be applauded, but the truth is specials dont have the training, the power or the authority that genuine Police have. They are a visible presence on the street, but everybody knows they are specials, lots of people will know them from their other lives, and maybe wrongly, treat them accordingly.
Teaching assistants arent teachers
Specials aren't Police officers
Paramedics arent doctors, but they're not supposed to be, they are trained to do a specialist job.

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Re: London again

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:24 am

Jesus the libs are rubbing each others backs with "likes" in some volume on this thread.

Guess this must be a really touchy subject for them.
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