AndyClaret wrote:So it's not our strength, who knew ? you should be celebrating, this is what you want.
Being subtly racist was never your strength. Your strength was screeching about being called a racist because of it.
AndyClaret wrote:So it's not our strength, who knew ? you should be celebrating, this is what you want.
nil_desperandum wrote:Has anyone on here actually defended the perpetrators of knife crime? I'll be very surprised if they have.
It's not an excuse, it's a possible reason why it's happening.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:When people excuse these kind of crimes by saying it is because pf police cuts, it is because of austerity, it is because of youth centres closing I would say that is defending their behaviour yes. If I had told one of my kids they couldn't go somewhere should I have been expecting them to go out and stab someone or shoot someone ?
If you asked a family member why did you stab that person and they said well I couldn't see a copper, what would your reaction be ?
claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I am so glad you posted that Charlie
Imploding Turtle wrote:Apparently you needed it.
One thing that's amazing to me is that those people who are always going on about "think of the victims" when liberals talk about people having the right to a free and fair trial are suddenly completely indifferent to the victims of crime when it comes to actually trying to prevent it. They suddenly don't give a ****. All they care about is how harsh the punishment is for the perpetrator. And that's kind of a running theme with them.aggi wrote:It's not an excuse, it's a possible reason why it's happening.
I've no issue with throwing the book at those who commit the crimes. However, let's not leave it at that as some such as Colburn_Claret suggest. Let's try and find the underlying reasons and fix them.
If reversing cuts in youth services or having more police on the streets then it's a win-win for everyone. Fewer people being stabbed, fewer people being sent to jail, less spent on treating those who are stabbed and investigating the crimes, etc.
No-one is saying that those committing the crimes should be excused because of cuts to youth services, police numbers or whatever.
I better remove the last three words. I know how offended you people get and think maybe you're glad i posted it because you wanted to report me for something.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:We will see
Imploding Turtle wrote:I better remove the last three words. I know how offended you people get and think maybe you're glad i posted it because you wanted to report me for something.
You might need to clean up the first sentence of your post. Taken literally it says that Gang/drug culture plays no part.Corky wrote:I don't pretend to have the answer to this problem but anyone who says that it is at least in part due to a Gang/Drugs culture would in my view be wrong.
However,I recently watched a very interesting piece on BBC London News where a Youth worker who ran a Youth Club explained what he had been doing to get young children and teenagers off the streets and then get them engaged in more meaningful pursuits like sport. He also explained how he had been working with the local Police who were regular visitors to the Centre, not to lay down the law, but to get to know the local children of the area. This had a couple of obvious benefits; firstly it broke down barriers between the Police and the local Youths. Put simply they got to know each other which had a secondary benefit when the Police were looking at groups of kids on street corners the chances were that they would know at least a couple of them and would be able to engage with them on a much more friendly basis than hitherto.
Needless to say Tory austerity had meant the Centre was now closed.
Why aren't you celebrating this wonderful diversity ? it must be like a socialist utopia to you !Imploding Turtle wrote:Being subtly racist was never your strength. Your strength was screeching about being called a racist because of it.
What makes you think I'm not celebrating diversity?AndyClaret wrote:Why aren't you celebrating this wonderful diversity ? it must be like a socialist utopia to you !
I'll make it simple for youImploding Turtle wrote:I notice you didn't bother addressing anything I actually said, after i took down your post point by point. All you did is name-call (i thought you people hated that), and then begin another round of Let's Speculate About Imploding Turtle's Personal Life, which is something you lot love to do.
If i'm alt-right, then you are a far left, anti-semite.Imploding Turtle wrote:Remember, people. Austerity doesn't cause crime, diversity does. According to alt-right-Andy here.
#TotallyNotRacistThough
Colburn_Claret wrote:I'll make it simple for you
On every point you spouted utter ********. I dont feel the need to prove it, because even if I had an affidavit from Jesus Christ himself, you, being who you are, would argue the toss.
By the way I'm not one of them lot, I dont even know who them lot are. I'm me.
AndyClaret wrote:If i'm alt-right, then you are a far left, anti-semite.
with you, it's not always what you say, it's what you don't say that gives it away.Imploding Turtle wrote:The difference being that you won't find a single example of either me being far-left or anti-semitic. But your bad attempt at dog-whistling your racism shows you to be a racist.
I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.Imploding Turtle wrote:I'm not asking you to prove it, i'm just asking you to defend your argument. It's clear to me that you can't, otherwise you would have already.
AndyClaret wrote:with you, it's not always what you say, it's what you don't say that gives it away.
Colburn_Claret wrote:...
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, ...
If you think people haven't been blaming austerity and a lack of police you haven't been reading the thread.Imploding Turtle wrote:Yes. Far too simplistic, which is why no one is saying that it is the only thing to blame. You're taking a nuanced view and turning it into an un-nuanced opinion by misinterpreting it and then you're attacking it as too simplistic. That's ******* stupid.
Jesus. You actually contradict yourself in your ********.Colburn_Claret wrote:I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, and easy targets for a much bigger problem.
Society has been breaking down for generations, this is now a culture issue, and if it's taken 40 years to get here, it will probably take 40 years to get out of it.
In this sub culture there are the leaders and the sheep. The leaders like to hide behind the sheep. To deal with it you have to separate the two. Catch the leaders and put them in quarantine, by jailing the bastards for as long as it takes. There is no easy cure for the problems of knives, but it is possible to take the problem off the streets. Stop and search.........whatever it takes. If it means law abiding citizens can walk the streets in safety , without fear anything is worth it. You dont solve it with kid gloves, that's partly what got us here in the first place. Lack of parental guidance and responsibility, banning corporal punishment in schools, the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood, a judicial system so soft it's a joke. To one or more degree they've all played a part in getting us to where we are today.
Lack of Police and austerity...nah
Its not the first time or the last time that Colburn has read what he wants to read and reacted occasionally.Colburn_Claret wrote:If you think people haven't been blaming austerity and a lack of police you haven't been reading the thread.
How?Lancasterclaret wrote:Jesus. You actually contradict yourself in your ********.
Doesn't fit in with what they believe. If anything the last three years have taught us, belief now trumps facts.CombatClaret wrote:Reading this thread a new I love how a group of posters has completely chosen to ignore the only person with first hand, front line professional experience on the subject.
What facts.Lancasterclaret wrote:Doesn't fit in with what they believe. If anything the last three years have taught us, belief now trumps facts.
But it is entertaining watching bright (and not so bright) posters tying themselves in knots trying to ignore facts because it clashes with what they believe.
More a general point of the last three years to be fair. Plenty of facts on other subjects like Brexit that you ignore without a care in the word (but you are not alone in that)Colburn_Claret wrote:What facts.
You say there is a lack of Police and austerity, which is a fact.
Then you say that knife crime and gang related incidents are on the rise, which is another fact.
Then you correlate and blame one on the other. That isn't a fact, that's opinion.
While we would all like to see more Police, it's not just the lack of numbers that is the problem, it's how they are used. The lack of community policing is a massive part of that, as others have said. A face on the street that is known to locals is a hundred times more effective than some faceless copper flying past at 60mph in his souped up motor.
While austerity is a problem for people, being poor has been with us for ever, it didn't put a knife in the hand of older generations, and if it was simply a case of austerity then why is it only the young that go round committing knife crimes, old and middle aged people suffer from austerity just as much, if not more.
So your facts are no more than taking someones opinion, and agreeing with it, against someones opinion you dont agree with.
NopeDamo wrote:If your opinion supports remaining in the EU, then it automatically becomes a fact.
That is something I have learned in the past 3 years
Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?Colburn_Claret wrote:I don't need to defend my argument, I just give my point of view. A view based on a lot of experience.
Blaming knife crime on lack of Police, or austerity is daft. Far too simplistic, and easy targets for a much bigger problem.
Society has been breaking down for generations, this is now a culture issue, and if it's taken 40 years to get here, it will probably take 40 years to get out of it.
In this sub culture there are the leaders and the sheep. The leaders like to hide behind the sheep. To deal with it you have to separate the two. Catch the leaders and put them in quarantine, by jailing the bastards for as long as it takes. There is no easy cure for the problems of knives, but it is possible to take the problem off the streets. Stop and search.........whatever it takes. If it means law abiding citizens can walk the streets in safety , without fear anything is worth it. You dont solve it with kid gloves, that's partly what got us here in the first place. Lack of parental guidance and responsibility, banning corporal punishment in schools, the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood, a judicial system so soft it's a joke. To one or more degree they've all played a part in getting us to where we are today.
Lack of Police and austerity...nah
I applaud your endeavours here Aggi, but mentioning he's contradicting himself and him asking "Why" suggests you'll get nowhere.aggi wrote:Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?
He says, expressing an anti-remainer opinion as if it was fact.Damo wrote:If your opinion supports remaining in the EU, then it automatically becomes a fact.
That is something I have learned in the past 3 years
How have you come to this conclusion? Genuinely interested.Colburn_Claret wrote:While we would all like to see more Police, it's not just the lack of numbers that is the problem, it's how they are used.
I appreciate all you say, and all you do or try to do. We see the problem in the same way, only with your inside knowledge you blame lack of funding. I cant argue the point as I believe you're telling the truth.TsarBomba wrote:How have you come to this conclusion? Genuinely interested.
Five years ago, I was on a well resourced Safer Neighbourhood Team. I was allocated a ward, and along with 5/6 other PC’s and PCSO’s, we would be out there, everyday, on foot, on bikes, in mini buses.
We would know the problem addresses, the local kids, the areas they would hang out. We knew where drug dealing and taking was rife, and put plain clothes officers out there at peak times.
We would close down brothels, conduct warrants, in short, we would do everything we could to deter and disrupt crime. We took great pride in our ward, and we would go to ward panel meetings and face the local residents on a monthly basis, and if there was an issue that needed tackling, we would know about it.
Fast forward 5 years, and things couldn’t be more different. Safer neighbourhood teams are a shadow of what they were. I would estimate 2/3 of officers/resources from SNT have been drafted in to support response teams, because ultimately, if we can’t fulfil our core responsibility of answering 999 calls, then we truly have utterly failed. Our answer to dealing with ASB now is to drive past on blue lights en route to another call in the hope of scaring the kids off. It’s utterly laughable.
We have cars with 150k on the clock, which continuously break down, and computer systems that are archaic and don’t work.
In my 12 years as a PC, I have never seen Policing, and the wider Public Services in such a desperate state as they are now. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING has been cut to the bone. Policing, London Ambulance Service, Probation, Prison Service, Mental Health services, and it has all contributed to the sharp rise in violent crime.
Until Central Government acknowledge this, which clearly they won’t, and reverse the cuts to Public Services, then the senseless violence will continue. Of course, there will always be violence, but not to this magnitude.
At some point, something will need to give.
I would have said it's not the money, but how its spent.aggi wrote:Out of curiosity, who will be doing the catching and stopping and searching? Why do you think there is the lack of a local bobby to engage with the neighbourhood?
Colburn_Claret wrote:Although I congratulate anyone joining the specials, especially as they are taking an active part in trying to improve their community, I think rather like teaching assistants they are just a cheap alternative to the real thing. Real Coppers, walking their community, and building bridges.
Some on here might say they would be better off building youth clubs than bridges.CombatClaret wrote:
Tsar just explained in detail exactly how he and his fellows walked their community and built bridges...
When the ambulance comes for you will you deny it because the paramedics are just a cheap alternative to REAL doctors?
The point is that they're not building either any more, since their funding was cut and their jobs had gone. So now they're not preventing crime, because of austerity, which means crime will rise.Lord Rothbury wrote:Some on here might say they would be better off building youth clubs than bridges.
Maybe a return to using the birch may have a more positive effect.
Time to change your username. You're about as popular on here as the clap.Devils_Advocate wrote:Good post Tsar but your wasting your time on the idiots on this board like Quickenthetempo, Claretsonthecoast1882, Lord Rothbury, Ghandhisflipflop, Clarets4me, Stayinup, AndyClaret and ColburnClaret.
This board really is going more and more downhill by the day with the levels of bigotry and ignorance that is getting posted and regurgitated endlessly.
Paramedics are trained to first response, they do hold qualifications . The same cant be said of teaching assistants or specials. Theres no way of saying it without sounding as if I'm pulling them down, and that isnt what I'm trying to do. Anyone who puts himself out to try and help his community should be applauded, but the truth is specials dont have the training, the power or the authority that genuine Police have. They are a visible presence on the street, but everybody knows they are specials, lots of people will know them from their other lives, and maybe wrongly, treat them accordingly.CombatClaret wrote:
Tsar just explained in detail exactly how he and his fellows walked their community and built bridges...
When the ambulance comes for you will you deny it because the paramedics are just a cheap alternative to REAL doctors?