Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
The Tories would have been better off going for a one nation centrist who isn't a total bell or a smarmy cardboard cut-out.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
The final leg of the Tory leadership race will be sponsored by Stella Artois.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Well it's clearly not sponsored by carlsberg.FactualFrank wrote:The final leg of the Tory leadership race will be sponsored by Stella Artois.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Doesn't matter
Whoever is in charge has to deal with reality.
Just like May did.
Whoever is in charge has to deal with reality.
Just like May did.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Corbyn everytimeAlargeClaret wrote:Though for one moment can people imagine having a similar choice between Corbyn and Dianne Abbot?
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Boris... cannot believe I’m saying it.
One thing that has really made me sit up is both his brother and his father staying close makes a hell of a difference. Both were remainers, and there is some serious brain power between them. They will also help retard Boris’s positivity excesses behind the showboating.
It might just work a lot better than anyone expects.
One thing that has really made me sit up is both his brother and his father staying close makes a hell of a difference. Both were remainers, and there is some serious brain power between them. They will also help retard Boris’s positivity excesses behind the showboating.
It might just work a lot better than anyone expects.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
You're not the first to suggest that Alexander de Pfeffel might be steered by his father. (I wonder if folk are parroting an editorial they'd read somewhere? Wouldn't surprise me.) I don't know if you're a leave voter but there's definitely at least one brexiteer who posts on here who has made this argument, which I find odd considering most brexiteers' reflexive distaste for *caps.lock* unelected politicians shaping politics and our laws.elwaclaret wrote:Boris... cannot believe I’m saying it.
One thing that has really made me sit up is both his brother and his father staying close makes a hell of a difference. Both were remainers, and there is some serious brain power between them. They will also help retard Boris’s positivity excesses behind the showboating.
It might just work a lot better than anyone expects.
Jeremy Hunt/his team suggested today that Boris' excesses and temperament might make him exploitable and as such represents a possible threat to security, and it's the first and only time I've ever somewhat agreed with Hunt. Not even a debate for me.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Probably me. I’m a non partisan Brexit voter. Who is more concerned with where Europe is taking us now.. federal partners, than a free market Europe. We joined the Common market, we stayed on for Europe part one. We leave with as much as part one intact as we can, is my general view.Spiral wrote:You're not the first to suggest that Alexander de Pfeffel might be steered by his father. (I wonder if folk are parroting an editorial they'd read somewhere? Wouldn't surprise me.) I don't know if you're a leave voter but there's definitely at least one brexiteer who posts on here who has made this argument, which I find odd considering most brexiteers' reflexive distaste for *caps.lock* unelected politicians shaping politics and our laws.
Jeremy Hunt/his team suggested today that Boris' excesses and temperament might make him exploitable and as such represents a possible threat to security, and it's the first and only time I've ever somewhat agreed with Hunt. Not even a debate for me.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Boris.
Because:
Boris is entertaining after 3 years of the Maybot. He is a Brexiteer so can see the big picture, as Brexiteers do. He is hated by the left, always a good sign, and hated by May’s chief lieutenants, another good sign. He has a track record of winning elections. He left London mayor with a 50% plus approval rate in a Labour City. He is well liked internationally (yes, really). He is optimistic, an essential part of being a leader.
Hunt is a suit. He voted Remain so either had a colossal error of judgement or does not truly believe in Brexit (it cannot be neither). His wealth makes Boris look poor (self made, sort of, but still the son of an Admiral). He is a cautious pragmatist like May, which means he will still face the reality Lancaster is so keen on banging on about (whereas Boris could circumvent it). His NHS career, which I know inside out, had very few bold strategic changes - no massive service redesign to fix the broken system (e.g. social care funding), firming up my belief he is a safe pair of hands not a bold leader. Too liberal, he is already going on about LGBT rights, all fine and dandy but there are bigger priorities, like ten million left behind northerners.
So as I said, has to be Boris.
Because:
Boris is entertaining after 3 years of the Maybot. He is a Brexiteer so can see the big picture, as Brexiteers do. He is hated by the left, always a good sign, and hated by May’s chief lieutenants, another good sign. He has a track record of winning elections. He left London mayor with a 50% plus approval rate in a Labour City. He is well liked internationally (yes, really). He is optimistic, an essential part of being a leader.
Hunt is a suit. He voted Remain so either had a colossal error of judgement or does not truly believe in Brexit (it cannot be neither). His wealth makes Boris look poor (self made, sort of, but still the son of an Admiral). He is a cautious pragmatist like May, which means he will still face the reality Lancaster is so keen on banging on about (whereas Boris could circumvent it). His NHS career, which I know inside out, had very few bold strategic changes - no massive service redesign to fix the broken system (e.g. social care funding), firming up my belief he is a safe pair of hands not a bold leader. Too liberal, he is already going on about LGBT rights, all fine and dandy but there are bigger priorities, like ten million left behind northerners.
So as I said, has to be Boris.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I'm sure Boris has spent many a sleepless night thinking about how to address the ten million left behind northerners.CrosspoolClarets wrote: all fine and dandy but there are bigger priorities, like ten million left behind northerners. So as I said, has to be Boris.
I wouldn't put it past him to cancel northern infrastructure projects and channel the money into Heathrow on the Thames or some other equally madcap scheme.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
As the OP
Cheers for all the input and strong points and insight / views.
What becomes clear to me is that neither is really a good option and also nobody wants Labs' JC either and everyone seems resigned to Tory rule for the foreseeable - Brexit is one huge fekup.
I think the Ireland issue is unsolveable - Europe know this and are waiting for the inevitable acceptance by the UK of a poor deal.
The Scots will then win a leave UK vote.
Cameron really has a lot to answer for starting all is. May the stool pigeon also for feking it up further.
AND the whole of our political system is at fault for this massive clusterfek that leaves us where we stand today.
The common people will suffer more and more.
Cheers for all the input and strong points and insight / views.
What becomes clear to me is that neither is really a good option and also nobody wants Labs' JC either and everyone seems resigned to Tory rule for the foreseeable - Brexit is one huge fekup.
I think the Ireland issue is unsolveable - Europe know this and are waiting for the inevitable acceptance by the UK of a poor deal.
The Scots will then win a leave UK vote.
Cameron really has a lot to answer for starting all is. May the stool pigeon also for feking it up further.
AND the whole of our political system is at fault for this massive clusterfek that leaves us where we stand today.
The common people will suffer more and more.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
edit - post above posted twice?
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Mate, the common people are the ones who created this mess. We voted brexit and we continue to elect morons who tell us what we want to hear. This mess is an indictment on the electorate. We're divided over what amount to legal technicalities, and until the demographics...ahem...'resolve', or someone comes along with sufficient charisma to successfully convince leavers that we're not leaving - and do so without causing their gammon to flare up and do something stupid like elect a fascist as PM - we're stuck in this cycle.HunterST_BFC wrote:The common people will suffer more and more.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
And when neither of the two main parties even remotely tried to inform the "common people of the truth" there lays the problem.Spiral wrote:Mate, the common people are the ones who created this mess. We voted brexit and we continue to elect morons who tell us what we want to hear. This mess is an indictment on the electorate. We're divided over what amount to legal technicalities, and until the demographics...ahem...'resolve', or someone comes along with sufficient charisma to successfully convince leavers that we're not leaving - and do so without causing their gammon to flare up and do something stupid like elect a fascist as PM - we're stuck in this cycle.
... now we end up without even a choice between two baffling idiots.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Boris, purely because he might make a big enough mess that it makes the Tories unelectable for a long time.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
It's a novel change from blaming Westminster I'll give you that Spiral.Spiral wrote:Mate, the common people are the ones who created this mess. We voted brexit and we continue to elect morons who tell us what we want to hear. This mess is an indictment on the electorate. .
But as every (open minded) politician knows - the electorate is always right...so I'm told
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Agreed. Boris just edges it on the balance of probabilities.Billy Balfour wrote:I'm sure Boris has spent many a sleepless night thinking about how to address the ten million left behind northerners.
I wouldn't put it past him to cancel northern infrastructure projects and channel the money into Heathrow on the Thames or some other equally madcap scheme.
We are talking something on the scale of HS3 to join up Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds and Hull. Free ports at both east and west, fast rail in between, improved motorway connectivity for workers - the kind of madcap blue sky vision only Boris could spend money on. Even if it doesn’t work, the North would be better for it.
But yes, there is a big chance it won’t happen, of course. This is about taking a punt and pushing him hard to deliver on it.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I have a colleague who's left wing, a very well educated and nice guy who's good to have a beer with. His view is that Hunt is a skilled negotiator who did a decent job (negotiation wise) with the NHS but is a remainer. As a left winger he views the EU with scepticism and, paradoxically, thinks Boris may well get us out more swiftly.
Interesting perspective I thought.
Interesting perspective I thought.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I appreciate they’re liberal and left leaning ( though they try hard for parity with new coverage etc) Though the Tory debate ( the one with BoJo) was quite appalling when they did the “ random” members of the public bit.And you feel they’re literally slavering “ Guardian like” at the first real awkward issue to hit Boris .But radio 4 and especially 5 live seem to have been given carte Blanche recentlybobinho wrote:You are shocked that the BBC have an agenda?
The BBC have, for quite a while, been stoking fires, although never quite as brazen as they have recently become.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
It's a bit like asking which testicle you'd like to have removed by a sheep farmer?
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I don't really understand the focus on how quickly we leave the EU. It's a decision that's going to impact the direction of the country for the next few generations, a year here or there to do it properly shouldn't be that big an issue.Guich wrote:I have a colleague who's left wing, a very well educated and nice guy who's good to have a beer with. His view is that Hunt is a skilled negotiator who did a decent job (negotiation wise) with the NHS but is a remainer. As a left winger he views the EU with scepticism and, paradoxically, thinks Boris may well get us out more swiftly.
Interesting perspective I thought.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Do you want state media or do you want journalism? because most of the complaints about the BBC fundamentally boil down to the fact that, when the BBC actually (infrequently, but we are where we are) bothers to pull its finger out, they hold the incumbent govt to account, which is important, really, when its decisions impact a population of about 60-70 million living breathing Human beings. To paraphrase a great quote I heard a while back:- "leaders don't get chances: they get tested."AlargeClaret wrote:I appreciate they’re liberal and left leaning ( though they try hard for parity with new coverage etc) Though the Tory debate ( the one with BoJo) was quite appalling when they did the “ random” members of the public bit.And you feel they’re literally slavering “ Guardian like” at the first real awkward issue to hit Boris .But radio 4 and especially 5 live seem to have been given carte Blanche recently
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Out of those 2 Boris every time. Johnson will destroy Corbyn every time where as Hunt may lose 2 or 3 times in 10.
Keeping Corbyn the biggest danger and his cronies out should be the main focus for everybody.
Keeping Corbyn the biggest danger and his cronies out should be the main focus for everybody.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
.
Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
No offence, but even Ringo would destroy Corbyn ever time.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Out of those 2 Boris every time. Johnson will destroy Corbyn every time where as Hunt may lose 2 or 3 times in 10.
Keeping Corbyn the biggest danger and his cronies out should be the main focus for everybody.
Being able to beat Corbyn at PMQs isn't a test for anyone.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Where is Ringo?Lancasterclaret wrote:No offence, but even Ringo would destroy Corbyn ever time.
Being able to beat Corbyn at PMQs isn't a test for anyone.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I think he's been busy over in Brecon protesting about yet another criminal MP who needed booting out of ParlimentHealeywoodclaret wrote:Where is Ringo?
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Lancasterclaret wrote:No offence, but even Ringo would destroy Corbyn ever time.
Being able to beat Corbyn at PMQs isn't a test for anyone.
I was thinking more in a general election
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I think my point still stands!claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I was thinking more in a general election
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Boris is going through the process of being found out. It won't surprise me at all if Hunt ends up winning this contest.
Strange that people who want to take back control of our country are terrified of Britain taking back control over our railways, postal service, and utilities. Fear at the thought of properly funded services paid for by reversing the Tory tax cuts for the rich. Anxiety at the idea of a national education service that benefits everyone. So much, "please sir, may I have more austerity?"
If either Hunt or Johnson can sell their tax cuts for the rich to the electorate in an environment of ten years of service cuts for everyone else, against Corbyn's positive and progressive agenda then we deserve what we get.
Strange that people who want to take back control of our country are terrified of Britain taking back control over our railways, postal service, and utilities. Fear at the thought of properly funded services paid for by reversing the Tory tax cuts for the rich. Anxiety at the idea of a national education service that benefits everyone. So much, "please sir, may I have more austerity?"
If either Hunt or Johnson can sell their tax cuts for the rich to the electorate in an environment of ten years of service cuts for everyone else, against Corbyn's positive and progressive agenda then we deserve what we get.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Well you should know.Lancasterclaret wrote:No offence, but even Ringo would destroy Corbyn ever time.
Being able to beat Corbyn at PMQs isn't a test for anyone.
"Even Ringo" has had the better of you on more than one occasion........
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Brexit Party chiefs announce they will legally challenge Peterborough by-election resultDevils_Advocate wrote:I think he's been busy over in Brecon protesting about yet another criminal MP who needed booting out of Parliment
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11445 ... y-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More about the legal challenge to May's extension of Article 50
https://youtu.be/5TsrcTBl8R8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I'm pleased you remember the one Ringo old chap.RingoMcCartney wrote:Well you should know.
"Even Ringo" has had the better of you on more than one occasion........
I don't keep score.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
"One".Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm pleased you remember the one Ringo old chap.
I don't keep score.
Each day.
As for keeping score. Don't blame you. No point wallowing in self pity.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
TrueRingoMcCartney wrote:"One".
Each day.
As for keeping score. Don't blame you. No point wallowing in self pity.
It would almost be as daft as blaming the EU for everything!
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Theresa May....has more brains and guts than the rest put together.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Yeah cos the current shower are doing such a great job of running the country. However bad Corbyn might be he'd have to go some to be worse than this lot.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Out of those 2 Boris every time. Johnson will destroy Corbyn every time where as Hunt may lose 2 or 3 times in 10.
Keeping Corbyn the biggest danger and his cronies out should be the main focus for everybody.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
With Abbott and Costel..... sorry, Corbyn in opposition, I don’t think that’s gonna happen anytime soon. The best chance labour are gonna get in many a year and they absolutely cannot see it and take advantage of it.jrgbfc wrote:Boris, purely because he might make a big enough mess that it makes the Tories unelectable for a long time.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Ironically Brexit aside ( a poison chalice for any party) the Tory govt have managed a strong economy , low interest rates low inflation high employment cut the deficit etc etc . Not bigging them Up or looking for argument but fiscally speaking it’s been a very steady ship tbfjrgbfc wrote:Yeah cos the current shower are doing such a great job of running the country. However bad Corbyn might be he'd have to go some to be worse than this lot.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Guts?The Enclosure wrote:Theresa May....has more brains and guts than the rest put together.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Couldn't disagree more, and those who have worked with Johnson would agree with me.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Out of those 2 Boris every time. Johnson will destroy Corbyn every time where as Hunt may lose 2 or 3 times in 10.
Keeping Corbyn the biggest danger and his cronies out should be the main focus for everybody.
Johnson is a v poor debater, hence his reluctance to engage in the leadership debates. He has no grasp or retention of detail or policy, and just tries to get through with bluster, empty latin phrases and the odd (usually ill-judged) joke.
Corbyn would be no match for Hunt (who is clever and eloquent) at all, but Johnson would constantly find himself under pressure from MPs of all political colours and would present Corbyn with so many open goals that even happless Jezza would probably hit the target from time to time.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
For someone who is running to be prime minister Boris's ducking of the media and refusing to take part in debates is absolutely pathetic. Yet the blue rinse brigade and pig ignorant Daily Mail readers who make up the Tory membership will probably still vote for him!
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I can't believe anybody is defending Hunt's role as Health Sectetary. An absolute disaster of the highest order.
Unbelievably though, BoJo would probably be an even worse PM than Hunt was Health Secretary.
So my vote goes to BoJo. Because that seems to be the thing to do at the moment. Vote for chaos. It'll at least make Wednesday afternoons on BBC Parliament more interesting. And it might actually trigger a general election, which I think is the only real way of sorting out this mess.
Unbelievably though, BoJo would probably be an even worse PM than Hunt was Health Secretary.
So my vote goes to BoJo. Because that seems to be the thing to do at the moment. Vote for chaos. It'll at least make Wednesday afternoons on BBC Parliament more interesting. And it might actually trigger a general election, which I think is the only real way of sorting out this mess.
Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
At least you get them back with Jimmy.Claret Till I Die wrote:As is currently doing the rounds on social media.
" Choosing between those two is like choosing between the McCann's and Jimmy Saville to babysit your kids"
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Don’t worry he’s done an interview with Laura Kuenssberg for tonight’s News at 10. Sure it’ll be riveting!jrgbfc wrote:For someone who is running to be prime minister Boris's ducking of the media and refusing to take part in debates is absolutely pathetic. Yet the blue rinse brigade and pig ignorant Daily Mail readers who make up the Tory membership will probably still vote for him!
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
nil_desperandum wrote:Couldn't disagree more, and those who have worked with Johnson would agree with me.
Johnson is a v poor debater, hence his reluctance to engage in the leadership debates. He has no grasp or retention of detail or policy, and just tries to get through with bluster, empty latin phrases and the odd (usually ill-judged) joke.
Corbyn would be no match for Hunt (who is clever and eloquent) at all, but Johnson would constantly find himself under pressure from MPs of all political colours and would present Corbyn with so many open goals that even happless Jezza would probably hit the target from time to time.
I would expect you to side with Corbyn
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I've not really been following this but did read a good comment this morning on fb.
'Why are the general public so interested in tv debates and canvassing of Hunt and Johnson when they have no influence over the leadership selection whatsoever'.
It's pointless!
'Why are the general public so interested in tv debates and canvassing of Hunt and Johnson when they have no influence over the leadership selection whatsoever'.
It's pointless!
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
I’m sure people would like to hear from the two men who have our countries fate in their hands. Whether they have a choice who it is or not.JohnMac wrote:I've not really been following this but did read a good comment this morning on fb.
'Why are the general public so interested in tv debates and canvassing of Hunt and Johnson when they have no influence over the leadership selection whatsoever'.
It's pointless!
Why do you watch football if you can’t influence anything that happens on the pitch?
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
Oh dear. Who in Team Boris thought it was should a good idea to 'leak' that photo to the press. It looks desperate and it's also playing the public for fools. They must have though us plebs would buy it - such arrogance.
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Re: Boris or Hunt you have to pick one
What a bizarre post.claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I would expect you to side with Corbyn
You only need to look at my posting history to see that I'm no fan of Corbyn. Even in the post that you are replying to I'm extremely uncomplimentary towards him, and I've consistently called him out for his incompetence, lack of political gravitas, his failure to process detail, and his stance on Europe.
What do you base your comment on? I'd really like to know.