NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
To open for addicts aged13-25. Is this something the NHS / taxpayer should fund ? Ultimately you have a choice whether to gamble. I had it drilled into me from a young aged that it was totally unacceptable and to run up debt in this way would not be tolerated. I expect there will be a lot of support for it on here but are there other areas of the NHS that would benefit more so from this funding ?
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
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Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
A fair point of view but not sure I support tax payer funded gastric band ops for people that eat too many pies when they have been warned to adopt a better diet.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Of course it is worthy of funding this initiative.
To say you have a choice is in the same category of treating depression or mental illness with a “why don’t you pull yourself together ?” type comment.
As a society surely it’s right that we offer support to those who have made the wrong choices in life. Gambling addiction is quite rightly recognised as an illness in the same way as other addictions.
Some people fall foul to addictions much easier then others - this can be to do with their background or environment but it can also be in relation to their mental state. It’s been evidenced for many years that some people have addictive personalities - that is an illness. Count yourself lucky if you haven’t got one.
To say you have a choice is in the same category of treating depression or mental illness with a “why don’t you pull yourself together ?” type comment.
As a society surely it’s right that we offer support to those who have made the wrong choices in life. Gambling addiction is quite rightly recognised as an illness in the same way as other addictions.
Some people fall foul to addictions much easier then others - this can be to do with their background or environment but it can also be in relation to their mental state. It’s been evidenced for many years that some people have addictive personalities - that is an illness. Count yourself lucky if you haven’t got one.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
It'd be nice if football funded some of the treatment, considering how much they push the cause.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Last week I spoke to a couple whose son had taken his own life because of his gambling addiction and then spoke to the lad who had organised the sponsored walk, a lad who had some serious problems and is now trying to work his way through them and hasn't had a bet in a year.
So yes, the NHS funding an initiative I'm in favour of.
So yes, the NHS funding an initiative I'm in favour of.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
If you're addicted to gambling you don't have a choice.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Entirely appropriate use of taxpayers money. I'd consider myself particular selfish if I didn't support it just because I don't have a gambling problem.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
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Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Blackrod's approach to subjects like these is on a par with Katie Hopkins and is about as equally well thought out
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
No it is not the same. To begin with you have a choice whether to gamble. I accept some people have more addictive personalities than others. Mental Illness is not a choice unlike making a life choice. There are many people who have had poor upbringings or been dealt a bad hand in life but they don’t decide to inject heroine for the first time or they don’t decide to gamble. Let’s encourage these people to show others not to go down these routes.TVC15 wrote:Of course it is worthy of funding this initiative.
To say you have a choice is in the same category of treating depression or mental illness with a “why don’t you pull yourself together ?” type comment.
As a society surely it’s right that we offer support to those who have made the wrong choices in life. Gambling addiction is quite rightly recognised as an illness in the same way as other addictions.
Some people fall foul to addictions much easier then others - this can be to do with their background or environment but it can also be in relation to their mental state. It’s been evidenced for many years that some people have addictive personalities - that is an illness. Count yourself lucky if you haven’t got one.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
I might be hardline on some matters but Katie Hopkins is an idiot imo.Devils_Advocate wrote:Blackrod's approach to subjects like these is on a par with Katie Hopkins and is about as equally well thought out
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Loads of conditions, injuries or illnesses that require NHS care are caused by people's own choices. It would be obscene for that to be the determining factor as to whether someone gets free health care or not.Blackrod wrote:No it is not the same. To begin with you have a choice whether to gamble. I accept some people have more addictive personalities than others. Mental Illness is not a choice unlike making a life choice. There are many people who have had poor upbringings or been dealt a bad hand in life but they don’t decide to inject heroine for the first time or they don’t decide to gamble. Let’s encourage these people to show others not to go down these routes.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Just to play devils advocate .... could it be that the taxes paid on alcohol, smoking and even food go towards the NHS .... I haven’t looked into how much tax is paid by betting firms which would be interesting.
Maybe increase the tax a bit to help fund it if need be?
Maybe increase the tax a bit to help fund it if need be?
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
I meant your approach to the issue was the same rather than the actual illness. Clearly mental illness is not the same as an addiction.Blackrod wrote:No it is not the same. To begin with you have a choice whether to gamble. I accept some people have more addictive personalities than others. Mental Illness is not a choice unlike making a life choice. There are many people who have had poor upbringings or been dealt a bad hand in life but they don’t decide to inject heroine for the first time or they don’t decide to gamble. Let’s encourage these people to show others not to go down these routes.
It’s not about upbringing or being dealt a bad hand. Sometimes this can have a big impact but that as you say does not mean that everyone goes down this road. However it’s a bit more complex than some people having more of an addictive personality than others. It’s been medically and scientifically proven that this is an illness and many people who suffer from gambling addiction also suffer from other addictions and often mental issues aswell.
You say they have a choice - many addicts would dispute that.
Putting money into education against gambling, drinking, drugs is fine - though it’s never going to be as much money as the people who are selling these products are putting into trying to get you hooked - so it’s always going to be a losing battle.
It’s hard to get me head round why anyone would think this type of funding / initiative is not a positive one.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Let them have electric shock treatment at a discount price, funded from out of The Foreign Aid Budget. No way rob cancer, heart, kidney patients.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Just when you hoped it might be a sensible debate.basil6345789 wrote:Let them have electric shock treatment at a discount price, funded from out of The Foreign Aid Budget. No way rob cancer, heart, kidney patients.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
I agree that the NHS should fund it as addictions can lead to all sorts of other medical problems which they have to sort. As mentioned earlier the incessant advertising during all sporting events is a serious contributor and a massive tax should be placed on all the betting companies to help fund such treatment.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
I’ll keep banding the drum....despite being told by people at the club that ‘There’s no harm in it,’ I have always had the opposing view. Pleasingly, this campaign seems to be building momentum! It’s cheap and tacky: our club could and should do better in this area if they want to promote themselves as a community club!
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Exactly. Advertising has been dealt with on other forms of addiction (particularly smoking) so the powers that be have finally adhered to the fact that advertising fuels the behaviour. Gambling is another addiction where the advertising standards need to catch up and it would help if football with the vast resources did something to help. However, I suspect it would be like Turkeys voting for Christmasjdrobbo wrote:I’ll keep banding the drum....despite being told by people at the club that ‘There’s no harm in it,’ I have always had the opposing view. Pleasingly, this campaign seems to be building momentum! It’s cheap and tacky: our club could and should do better in this area if they want to promote themselves as a community club!
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
There's a 15% duty levied on gambling companies' earnings.bfccrazy wrote:Just to play devils advocate .... could it be that the taxes paid on alcohol, smoking and even food go towards the NHS .... I haven’t looked into how much tax is paid by betting firms which would be interesting.
Maybe increase the tax a bit to help fund it if need be?
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Many gaming / gambling companies are based in Gibraltar, and other overseas tax havens; so I think it's very unlikely they stump up their proper share of taxes.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Tall Paul wrote:
There's a 15% duty levied on gambling companies' earnings.
AndrewJB wrote:Many gaming / gambling companies are based in Gibraltar, and other overseas tax havens; so I think it's very unlikely they stump up their proper share of taxes.
This could surely be increased to even 16/17% and it’d cover what the NHS needs to find this type of thing with the amount that gambling companies make.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
They need a UK licence to trade in the UK and are therefore subject to the 15% levy on UK earnings.AndrewJB wrote:Many gaming / gambling companies are based in Gibraltar, and other overseas tax havens; so I think it's very unlikely they stump up their proper share of taxes.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Blackrod wrote:A fair point of view but not sure I support tax payer funded gastric band ops for people that eat too many pies when they have been warned to adopt a better diet.
Are you addicted to anything? Are any of your loved ones addicted to anything? Let's try smoking. Anyone you care about a smoker? Probably. Should their "decision" to light up every day exclude them from every NHS treatment for any illnesses caused by smoking? Of course not. Now what if the NHS could fund something that would make it easier for them to stop smoking, if they want to. Should you support that? Think about it. We're talking about something that will allow them to live longer, work longer, which means they contribute tax for longer. And it reduces their burden on the NHS because it's less likely that non-smokers will get cancers and illnesses that smoking causes.
Whether you like it or not, whether you accept science or not (i know you don't, especially matters related to biology) addiction IS an illness. Just because you don't understand addiction doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And when you're addicted to something that satisfying those cravings isn't a choice.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Well said KenImploding Turtle wrote:Are you addicted to anything? Are any of your loved ones addicted to anything? Let's try smoking. Anyone you care about a smoker? Probably. Should their "decision" to light up every day exclude them from every NHS treatment for any illnesses caused by smoking? Of course not. Now what if the NHS could fund something that would make it easier for them to stop smoking, if they want to. Should you support that? Think about it. We're talking about something that will allow them to live longer, work longer, which means they contribute tax for longer. And it reduces their burden on the NHS because it's less likely that non-smokers will get cancers and illnesses that smoking causes.
Whether you like it or not, whether you accept science or not (i know you don't, especially matters related to biology) addiction IS an illness. Just because you don't understand addiction doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And when you're addicted to something that satisfying those cravings isn't a choice.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
But no VATTall Paul wrote:There's a 15% duty levied on gambling companies' earnings.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Why would they pay VAT ?claret2018 wrote:But no VAT
What are they buying or selling ?
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
That's understandable. To make gambling deliberately unprofitable for everyone, which 20% VAT would do, would mean that the non-addicted gamblers just wouldn't bother and this would mean gambling companies would be relying almost entirely on the addicts for their profit.claret2018 wrote:But no VAT
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
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Last edited by If it be your will on Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Scratch cards, lottery tickets etc. Traditional bets in a bookies would be difficult to apply VAT on, but things like this wouldn't.TVC15 wrote:Why would they pay VAT ?
What are they buying or selling ?
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
This was in the news the other day
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 2012792119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder if the two stories are linked?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 2012792119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder if the two stories are linked?
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Ok - not all things they do are VAT exempt.claret2018 wrote:Scratch cards, lottery tickets etc. Traditional bets in a bookies would be difficult to apply VAT on, but things like this wouldn't.
They also pay corporation tax on top of the 15% levy.
I do think they should pay more though - starting with banning the practice of them registering their head office in places like Gibraltar to minimise corporation tax. I understand that regulating that would be difficult but there has to be the political will to do something more. I’m not bothered which type of tax it comes from but there is no way that any betting company operating in this country should be paying less than the 15% levy and 19% corporation tax....if they register themselves overseas increase the levy to 34%.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Where do you draw the line though? Alchoholism? Gambling addiction? Obesity? Substance abuse? Smoking? Everyone deserves support in my opinion, regardless of their addiction. The only people we should be withdrawing support for, are the people claiming a benefit/medical care for injuries that don't exist - how you'd ever be able to test for that though, I don't know.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
People who seem medical care for an illness or injury that doesn't exist are suffering from another form of mental illness called Munchhausen's syndrome. And you minimise fraud by minimising cash benefits or benefits with a cash equivalent. It's pretty much the reason we get prescriptions for medicines instead of cash to go and buy our medicines.whiffa wrote:Where do you draw the line though? Alchoholism? Gambling addiction? Obesity? Substance abuse? Smoking? Everyone deserves support in my opinion, regardless of their addiction. The only people we should be withdrawing support for, are the people claiming a benefit/medical care for injuries that don't exist - how you'd ever be able to test for that though, I don't know.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Yes I was allowing for mental health issues, I was referring to those people who deliberately play the system.Imploding Turtle wrote:People who seem medical care for an illness or injury that doesn't exist are suffering from another form of mental illness called Munchhausen's syndrome. And you minimise fraud by minimising cash benefits or benefits with a cash equivalent. It's pretty much the reason we get prescriptions for medicines instead of cash to go and buy our medicines.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Ok I’ve read one of your posts for once and I’ll respond. You managed to get the insult in there I see. Yes I’ve tried lots of things including smoking. I gave up through will power. It’s hard but ultimately a choice. I did qualify my post by saying I accept it’s harder for some than others. If you are obese and at risk of a heart attack and keep eating pies cakes and other fatty foods why should society that do eat responsibly bear the cost. I think gambling is a choice to begin with that you should take responsibility for. If you have an addictive personality stay clear. Don’t expect others to agree but that’s my view. I also think the promotion of gambling doesn’t help and it would be good if football clubs banned the promotion of gambling companies but in football money is put first unfortunately.Imploding Turtle wrote:Are you addicted to anything? Are any of your loved ones addicted to anything? Let's try smoking. Anyone you care about a smoker? Probably. Should their "decision" to light up every day exclude them from every NHS treatment for any illnesses caused by smoking? Of course not. Now what if the NHS could fund something that would make it easier for them to stop smoking, if they want to. Should you support that? Think about it. We're talking about something that will allow them to live longer, work longer, which means they contribute tax for longer. And it reduces their burden on the NHS because it's less likely that non-smokers will get cancers and illnesses that smoking causes.
Whether you like it or not, whether you accept science or not (i know you don't, especially matters related to biology) addiction IS an illness. Just because you don't understand addiction doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And when you're addicted to something that satisfying those cravings isn't a choice.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Blackrod wrote:Ok I’ve read one of your posts for once and I’ll respond. You managed to get the insult in there I see. Yes I’ve tried lots of things including smoking. I gave up through will power. It’s hard but ultimately a choice. I did qualify my post by saying I accept it’s harder for some than others. If you are obese and at risk of a heart attack and keep eating pies cakes and other fatty foods why should society that do eat responsibly bear the cost. I think gambling is a choice to begin with that you should take responsibility for. If you have an addictive personality stay clear. Don’t expect others to agree but that’s my view. I also think the promotion of gambling doesn’t help and it would be good if football clubs banned the promotion of gambling companies but in football money is put first unfortunately.
Everything that's addictive and becomes an addiction is a choice to begin with. I'm pretty sure thousands of people who take up smoking for the first time each day aren't doing it with a gun to their head, but no sane person is saying we shouldn't treat people for lung cancer, or throat cancer.
And personal responsibility for an illness has never been, and should never be, a factor when it comes to whether someone deserves care from the NHS. Should skin cancer sufferers be denied life saving treatment because they enjoy going to the beach? Should people with broken legs be denied treatment because they chose to take up skateboarding and didn't know how to do that thing with the railing... i don't know the lingo but you get my point.
And your comment about why should society bear responsibility for the cost of other people's unhealthy lifestyles is ridiculously short-sighted. What's the alternative? Just let them die? How humane.
People who eat to the point of obesity clearly have an eating disorder that's not all that much different to people who eat almost nothing at all, or eat and then shove their fingers down their throat. Should we no longer fund treatment for people with eating disorders on the basis that they choose how much or how little food they eat?
And when they die, (yes, i'm taking this all the way to the looney extremes of your rather extreme idea) and their bodies are rotting in their homes because the government has decided that they caused their own deaths and so refuse to pay for corpse removal services, are the government going to foot the cost of exterminating all the vermin their rotting corpse attracts? Are they going to fund air fresheners for the neighbourhood so that neighbours don't have to smell a decomposing body for the following months? Because, "why should society that do eat responsibly bear the cost?"
And there were no insults in my other post. You're imagining things.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Where do you stand on addictions to disagreeing, arguing and internet trolling ?
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
The NHS should be treating addictions.
They should also work in conjunction with social services though for anyone under 18 if its a gambling/drinking/drug addiction though because clearly the parents are failing to take care of their kids.
They should also work in conjunction with social services though for anyone under 18 if its a gambling/drinking/drug addiction though because clearly the parents are failing to take care of their kids.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
If you want people to take your opinions seriously, even when they think your opinion is ridiculous, then come up with a better reply than this when they take the time to explain to you their opinion. If this was an argument then you lost when you posted this reply.Blackrod wrote:Where do you stand on addictions to disagreeing, arguing and internet trolling ?
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
VAT is a tax on the customer, so all applying VAT would do is increase the cost of scratchcards and lottery tickets without a corresponding increase in prize money.claret2018 wrote:Scratch cards, lottery tickets etc. Traditional bets in a bookies would be difficult to apply VAT on, but things like this wouldn't.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
This is nail on the head. The stuff with the ladbrokes stand sponsorship last year and the social media stuff that came out after the Leeds cup game was a farce. The money should be a drop in the ocean and the club should have drawn a line in the sand about how they were portrayed in the media. Think the club excels in a lot of ways on and off the pitch but the use of gambling companies as shirt sponsors is poor,I understand the argument of obtaining the most money available but where does that stop? I’d far rather support the club with a direct message on this type of thing, strong community projects in place as well as progressive and inclusive policies for families etc, rather than a compete at all costs approach - I’m probably in the minority on that though. The club was formed as a sports club first for the local community at what point do we all become obsessed with the idea of the club running as a business above anything else?jdrobbo wrote:I’ll keep banding the drum....despite being told by people at the club that ‘There’s no harm in it,’ I have always had the opposing view. Pleasingly, this campaign seems to be building momentum! It’s cheap and tacky: our club could and should do better in this area if they want to promote themselves as a community club!
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Any addiction impacts on your health. Therefore people who are struggling are best off being treated sooner rather than later. This can include gambling,smoking,drinking. Its part of the reason why we are taxed so heavily in this country.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Nice idea, but we have a national crisis in young people's mental health services caused by underfunding by this government. This is no more than someone's pet project.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
If they arent paying taxes in this country they shouldn't be operating in this country. I would have presumed they have to be licenced, so surely that comes with a clause to pay our taxes.AndrewJB wrote:Many gaming / gambling companies are based in Gibraltar, and other overseas tax havens; so I think it's very unlikely they stump up their proper share of taxes.
I hardly dare open my mouth on this as I obviously live on another planet. I dont think the NHS should be paying for this. IF they need help, it should be entirely funded by Gambling Cos.
What checks are in place if 13 year olds have on line accounts. Why should the buck stop with the tax payer.
Similar to all the arguments re crime and austerity, it's a Social problem, that needs sorting by Society, not just governments.
I have a cousin at the moment who is suffering alcoholism. My first reaction was pull yourself together to which my wife and daughter slaughtered me for. They've worked so hard seeing he gets the right professional help. Sorting out all his debts that have accumulated because of the drink. It's been going on for 16 months now and there have been steps forward, but they always are followed by steps backward. He has his good days, but lots of bad days. My daughter has all but given up, and it breaks her heart, but as I keep telling her at least you tried, which is more than I did, but unless he admits to himself that he has a problem she's wasting her time. No matter what they do, or what other departments do for him, if he isnt willing to help himself it's a waste of time.
Going back to the NHS and gambling, the homeless, gang culture crime. Nothing can be done to help these people if they dont come forward and admit they have a problem.
Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Not your finest hour to be honest.Blackrod wrote:Ok I’ve read one of your posts for once and I’ll respond. You managed to get the insult in there I see. Yes I’ve tried lots of things including smoking. I gave up through will power. It’s hard but ultimately a choice. I did qualify my post by saying I accept it’s harder for some than others. If you are obese and at risk of a heart attack and keep eating pies cakes and other fatty foods why should society that do eat responsibly bear the cost. I think gambling is a choice to begin with that you should take responsibility for. If you have an addictive personality stay clear. Don’t expect others to agree but that’s my view. I also think the promotion of gambling doesn’t help and it would be good if football clubs banned the promotion of gambling companies but in football money is put first unfortunately.
And I can’t see anything in ITs post that resembles an insult either.
Do agree with the last bit of your post though.
My guess is that you or close family / friends have not come across real addiction in your life - and for that i’d be very grateful. You are a long way off the mark in a lot of what you have said - and saying “it’s just your view” doesn’t really justify what your saying
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Colburn_Claret wrote:If they arent paying taxes in this country they shouldn't be operating in this country.
they it 15% tax directly, and it is set to increase in future years.
I hardly dare open my mouth on this as I obviously live on another planet. I dont think the NHS should be paying for this. IF they need help, it should be entirely funded by Gambling Cos.
What checks are in place if 13 year olds have on line accounts. Why should the buck stop with the tax payer.
Every account is both age and KYC verified to prove customers are over age. Risks are still there for stolen identity of parents / parents cards, but that would be a tough on to level at gambling companies responsibility.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
There are some that will decry everything IT says just because it's him, but I've nothing to add to what he's said - it's all bang on.
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Re: NHS Gambling Addict Clinics
Recent news is that the Gambling industry big 5 (GVC, Flitter, Stars Group, Bet365 and Hills) have committed 1% of revenue to gambling related harm support groups, to the tune of £100m annually.
For those interested, the gambling commission produce an audit on gambling in the country each year, highlighting the % of people at risk of gambling addiction.
For those interested, the gambling commission produce an audit on gambling in the country each year, highlighting the % of people at risk of gambling addiction.