Brighton showing us the way again by early business

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Darnhill Claret
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Darnhill Claret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:48 am

Well, if we spent less than Brighton and also finished above them, I would say that that was a win/win result or BOOM-BOOM.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by elwaclaret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:52 am

I’d be concerned if I was a Brighton fan. Are they at the behest of Potter or is he just a more suitable yes man for the Chairman?

I’d be very worried if we started bringing in players I’d never heard of from minor leagues at £18m a pop.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Darnhill Claret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:57 am

I think that right now we are in a better position than both Brighton and Newcastle, although there are no guarantees that will stay the same. I have a lot of respect for Brighton’s new manager and I’m impressed with his managerial record to date. Just hoping that things behind the scenes are difficult to manage as well.
However other teams do, I think we will be much stronger this season. I’m expecting a top 12 finish and hoping for a top half finish.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:59 am

Whilst I admit I know nothing about these new Brighton signings, I have to agree that getting business done a bit earlier is a good idea.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by bobinho » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:19 am

See post #23.

Nail, head.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Belgianclaret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:15 pm

15M for a talent like Trossard is peanuts. Will take some time to adapt but he is a tremendous prospect.

Ah well, our European scout will sort someone out soon ;) :shock:

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Belgianclaret wrote:15M for a talent like Trossard is peanuts. Will take some time to adapt but he is a tremendous prospect.

Ah well, our European scout will sort someone out soon ;) :shock:

Hard to believe this huge talent available for peanuts was only known to Brighton

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:18 pm

Trossard is a good player, but big difference between Juniper League and Prem league.

But yeah, getting players in early is always preferable.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by AlargeClaret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:21 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Will you cry into your pillow?
Brighton fans have been biting pillows for years
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by rob63 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:13 pm

TVC15 wrote:Not sure many people were saying Wolves would struggle. They walked the Championship with a team full of internationals and players who had played in the top leagues in Europe....and they even had a year to bed themselves into English football. That said they had probably assembled the most expensive team in the history of the Championship and there are few teams that could have done it in the way they did.
Wolves had to get promotion otherwise they'd really have fallen foul of the FFP regulations with the players fees & wages.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:17 pm

rob63 wrote:Wolves had to get promotion otherwise they'd really have fallen foul of the FFP regulations with the players fees & wages.
There were serious concerns over the way Wolves were doing things but I’m not aware they were breaking FFP rules.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by CnBtruntru » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:21 pm

rob63 wrote:Wolves had to get promotion otherwise they'd really have fallen foul of the FFP regulations with the players fees & wages.
They were all rent boys, oops loanees they had about 12 from Portugal at one stage.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:29 pm

CnBtruntru wrote:They were all rent boys, oops loanees they had about 12 from Portugal at one stage.
Think they made a couple of them permanent last January and have done the same with Jiminez this summer

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by rob63 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:30 pm

CnBtruntru wrote:They were all rent boys, oops loanees they had about 12 from Portugal at one stage.
Who you have to pay wages to & a fee to the loaning club, plus there was a commitment to buy at the end of the loan period. Loan doesn't mean free!

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:25 pm

ClaretTony wrote:There were serious concerns over the way Wolves were doing things but I’m not aware they were breaking FFP rules.
no idea what rules they broke but João Moutinho for 5 million quid must have broken a whole bunch

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:51 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:no idea what rules they broke but João Moutinho for 5 million quid must have broken a whole bunch
It was all to do with the agent - there was an investigation by the league during their promotion season

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:22 am

ClaretTony wrote:It was all to do with the agent - there was an investigation by the league during their promotion season
yeah I know, Mendez, and I don't believe anyone on planet earth can honestly think Mouthino for 5 million is legit !!

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by bfc-sparta » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:39 am

We could of at least got jay rod signed by now. We don't want that dragging out till deadline day. Its 5million ffs either we want him or we don't.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:58 am

bfc-sparta wrote:We could of at least got jay rod signed by now. We don't want that dragging out till deadline day. Its 5million ffs either we want him or we don't.
Perhaps he’s keeping his own options open?

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by MDWat » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:07 am

claretspice wrote:I don't think anyone is saying that signing players early automatically results in success, but equally Dyche himself would readily admit that he'd prefer to have players in before pre-season kicks off. We're still a good fortnight away from that milestone, so this is clearly all a bit premature, but I don't think the OP's frustration that other clubs appear to manage to achieve that objective more successfully than we do is wholly misplaced.

Brighton's business last summer was not very successful, but neither was ours.
The only sense in a mound of shite. The fierce defence of the club is not always necessary - it's fine to provide constructive criticism from time to time. The fierce bashing of the club isn't always necessary either, as we know the markets we're dealing in.

If Jay Rod is a target, and he definitely has a clause that expires in mid-July, you'd question why we haven't got that deal done yet. Then again, he might just not be a target, or keeping his options open.

I agree with spice - it doesn't automatically lead to success getting them in, but nor is it too negative to suggest that clubs do a better job at getting players in than we do, early in pre season. It's just a fact.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Falcon » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:09 am

Is this is **** take? Does buying a load of players ridiculously early make them better?

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Grimsdale » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:16 am

Falcon wrote:Is this is **** take? Does buying a load of players ridiculously early make them better?
No, just more expensive.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Belgianclaret » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:00 am

Of course buying young prospects like Trossard won't pay dividends straight away, but I think Brighton have got themselves a terrific prospect.

For that price you certainly won't get a better English player than him.

Although I respect and understand the club's stance on signing European players, I still don't agree with it. We don't need a whole influx of foreign players, but there are still so many good prospects to be found with the right approach and contacts.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by SGr » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:10 am

All for being proven wrong but this Trossard they’ve signed for £18m doesn’t look anything special. Echoes of Jahanbakhsh.

Bloom seems to trust his mates with laptops more than real scouts and the management, has resulted in them signing a good number of average players for large fees. If we’re one end of a spectrum, they’re right at the other. Balance is needed.

Bissouma is the only recent signing they’ve made that I’ve genuinely been impressed by.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Pstotto » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:16 am

There's always one, isn't there? You're sitting in the exam room and one starts writing furiously ream after ream after ream. You write two pages. They fail and you pass. :-)
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:44 pm

MDWat wrote:The only sense in a mound of shite. The fierce defence of the club is not always necessary - it's fine to provide constructive criticism from time to time. The fierce bashing of the club isn't always necessary either, as we know the markets we're dealing in.

If Jay Rod is a target, and he definitely has a clause that expires in mid-July, you'd question why we haven't got that deal done yet. Then again, he might just not be a target, or keeping his options open.

I agree with spice - it doesn't automatically lead to success getting them in, but nor is it too negative to suggest that clubs do a better job at getting players in than we do, early in pre season. It's just a fact.

Well with money as tight as some on here would have you believe, maybe we take our time so as to avoid paying a players wages for a few weeks :roll:

There is a different dynamic this year in that for the first time, the window closes prior to the start of the season. Surely that means that we should be expecting business earlier than we have seen it in the past?

Problem with these arguments on this forum is that there is no middle ground in some people's eyes. If you want players to be signed you are accused of wanting to bankrupt the club!
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by thomaspaine » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:00 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Whilst I admit I know nothing about these new Brighton signings, I have to agree that getting business done a bit earlier is a good idea.
Depends on what the business is.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by thomaspaine » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:02 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Whilst I admit I know nothing about these new Brighton signings, I have to agree that getting business done a bit earlier is a good idea.
Depends on what the business is.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by TVC15 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s hardly worthy of debate to be honest.
The earlier you get the players you want in the better.
This is particularly relevant for us given the number of players who we sign and are then told they are carrying a knock, not had a pre-season etc.
It’s not even the case of getting Dyche fit - a lot of our signings are just not fit when we sign them. Vydra, Wells, Brady, Defour, etc.
Getting players integrated, settled into a new home, going on pre season tour with the rest of the team, etc etc has got to be a big thing.
We have signed players early in transfer windows before so i’m sure we could do it. Plus we all know that negotiations with other clubs, agents etc happen outside of transfer windows so you can get a lot of the stuff out of the way in anticipation of a new window.
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:17 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:Well with money as tight as some on here would have you believe, maybe we take our time so as to avoid paying a players wages for a few weeks :roll:

There is a different dynamic this year in that for the first time, the window closes prior to the start of the season. Surely that means that we should be expecting business earlier than we have seen it in the past?
It's not the first time, that was also the case last season.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:31 pm

It's obvious why we don't get players in early. Both clubs and agents see Burnley as a club that won't pay top dollar, and so they wait for a better offer to come along. All we have to do to lose this reputation is to start paying top dollar. If we pay enough so that other clubs and players realise that they won't get a better offer than Burnley, so snap our hands off before they find a different target, then the sooner we will get players in.

Of course, we will have to pay a lot more in transfer fees, and wages across the squad will rise significantly. But it's only money. Isn't it?

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:34 pm

Tall Paul wrote:It's not the first time, that was also the case last season.
Ah yes, sorry we used Europe and the World Cup as last years excuses. I must have got lost in all that.

Point still stands, the earlier the transfer windows close, the sooner it makes sense to get your business done.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by arise_sir_charge » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:37 pm

dsr wrote:It's obvious why we don't get players in early. Both clubs and agents see Burnley as a club that won't pay top dollar, and so they wait for a better offer to come along. All we have to do to lose this reputation is to start paying top dollar. If we pay enough so that other clubs and players realise that they won't get a better offer than Burnley, so snap our hands off before they find a different target, then the sooner we will get players in.

Of course, we will have to pay a lot more in transfer fees, and wages across the squad will rise significantly. But it's only money. Isn't it?
I don't think that is strictly true. I don't see lots of players that we get cheap or alternatively lots of players that we are in for but then go somewhere else later in a window for mega bucks.

We just seem to have a small pool of targets and we take our time to get them in. It's worked for us so far despite what the rest of us make of it.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:43 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:I don't think that is strictly true. I don't see lots of players that we get cheap or alternatively lots of players that we are in for but then go somewhere else later in a window for mega bucks.

We just seem to have a small pool of targets and we take our time to get them in. It's worked for us so far despite what the rest of us make of it.
Yes, I agree. But a lot of the reason our targets don't eventually go for megabucks is because it's not only Burnley; no-one else will pay as much as the selling club or agent were hoping for. If we paid the most that selling club and agent could expect, we would get our men. (Though next year, we might find out the price had gone up again. And we might find it harder to persuade our existing players to sign new contracts.)

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by edison » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:00 pm

It is clear there are some fans who would rather we waste money now on garbage than sign no one - same every window.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by TVC15 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:05 pm

dsr wrote:It's obvious why we don't get players in early. Both clubs and agents see Burnley as a club that won't pay top dollar, and so they wait for a better offer to come along. All we have to do to lose this reputation is to start paying top dollar. If we pay enough so that other clubs and players realise that they won't get a better offer than Burnley, so snap our hands off before they find a different target, then the sooner we will get players in.

Of course, we will have to pay a lot more in transfer fees, and wages across the squad will rise significantly. But it's only money. Isn't it?
I don’t think it is that obvious to be fair.
If you are a selling club it’s a risky game to be waiting around for better bids as you may end up with nothing and an unhappy player - and you often see their value reduce as a result.
Of course every deal differs and we are just guessing as to why so many fall through and similarly the amounts in relation to bids and what the club are looking for are mostly pure fabrication.
Personally I don’t believe any of the stuff that often comes out from our fans when they criticise our board for losing a deal for only a million or two. That defies common sense and logic as to why we would do that and for me the deals that don’t materialise will be for much bigger numbers or contractual demands that don’t meet our criteria - eg bonuses or relegation clauses etc.

We got the Michael Keane deal done early and have done it on other transfers too so it is possible - although clearly it’s not easy.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:48 pm

Pstotto wrote:There's always one, isn't there? You're sitting in the exam room and one starts writing furiously ream after ream after ream. You write two pages. They fail and you pass. :-)
great analogy

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by aggi » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:28 pm

SGr wrote:All for being proven wrong but this Trossard they’ve signed for £18m doesn’t look anything special. Echoes of Jahanbakhsh.

Bloom seems to trust his mates with laptops more than real scouts and the management, has resulted in them signing a good number of average players for large fees. If we’re one end of a spectrum, they’re right at the other. Balance is needed.

Bissouma is the only recent signing they’ve made that I’ve genuinely been impressed by.
It's a policy that has worked out pretty well for Liverpool.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by claretspice » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:24 pm

edison wrote:It is clear there are some fans who would rather we waste money now on garbage than sign no one - same every window.
That may be true, but we're talking some fans, most definitely not the majority of fans who have commented on this thread, and it's not really relevant to the point the OP makes. It's a bit of a straw man argument really.

Most people want us to sign good players that strengthen the squad. They would ideally like us to at least start doing so as early as our competitors appear to start landing their targets. But - although as I said, I think it's a bit premature, and I'm constantly one of those who advocates realism in terms of who we might sign, how many we'll sign and indeed when we'll do the majority of our business - I'm really not sure there's much sense in painting that to be necessarily some form of extreme or irrational position.

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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by Goobs » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:25 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:Problem with these arguments on this forum is that there is no middle ground in some people's eyes. If you want players to be signed you are accused of wanting to bankrupt the club!
Conversely if you are happy to wait and see and accept that sometimes deals can't be / don't get done, you have no ambition and would be happy to see the club relegated because you are a "happy clapper". :roll:
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Re: Brighton showing us the way again by early business

Post by SGr » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:28 pm

aggi wrote:It's a policy that has worked out pretty well for Liverpool.
They have a committee at Liverpool, that doesn’t just focus on statistics, and it includes the manager with every big signing made.

Also, Liverpool’s big money signings come from England and the top European leagues. It’s just really comparable to what Brighton are doing. There are some good players in the Belgian and Dutch leagues, but you need to use your eyes to determine which ones will suit the Premier League and it’s style specifically.

Not saying Trossard will flop for definite - he might be a revelation - but from what I’ve seen of him, his G+A stats flatter to deceive. Got to remember, Genk are a top club in their own league, it’s worlds away from Brighton.

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