Milnrow resign from the Lancashire League

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:46 pm

It was rumoured on here that they were going to, and now they have - as from the end of this season. The first club to drop out of the Lancashire League since Bury in 1894.

Anyone know if there's any club waiting in the wings?

http://www.lancashireleague.com/Articles/16/16104.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CBT · Post by **CBT** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:23 am

Wow didn't think it was that bad down there
I'm sure the league will get a replacement but hopefully the incoming club will be able to sustain their place

Local cricketer · Post by **Local cricketer** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:49 am

dsr wrote:It was rumoured on here that they were going to, and now they have - as from the end of this season. The first club to drop out of the Lancashire League since Bury in 1894.

Anyone know if there's any club waiting in the wings?

http://www.lancashireleague.com/Articles/16/16104.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lowerhouse 2nds joining the senior league

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:35 am

Poor all round.

No mention of this at Wednesday’s league meeting and then the rest of the clubs find out via the league website.

Too late, in all probability, for a replacement next season as that club would have to resign from their own league by 30th June, which appears very unlikely to me.

Wish Milnrow well but they should never have made the cut to start with.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:38 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:Poor all round.

No mention of this at Wednesday’s league meeting and then the rest of the clubs find out via the league website.

Too late, in all probability, for a replacement next season as that club would have to resign from their own league by 30th June, which appears very unlikely to me.

Wish Milnrow well but they should never have made the cut to start with.

I spotted this last night but it is shockingly poor if the other clubs in the league find out in the same way as I do.

Are they the first club to depart the league since Bury in the late 19th century?

Such a shame when a cricket club has got to the point when it can’t raise a team for a game. Could well be now that this could happen a few more times this season.

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:01 am

Its not fair on the teams that train during the week and give up their Friday, Saturday or Sunday to find out the other team cant field a side.
This isn't Sunday league Football up Prairie, you feel for the fans and hard working volunteers but its obviously being run very badly.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:13 am

It could happen to any club at the moment, in any league.
Leagues may have to get more flexible with allowing clubs the ability to move the odd game to help clubs out.
A few local clubs have tried to get fixtures postponed on the weekend of Beat herder for instance in the last couple of years.
Availability when England play in tournaments or when football clubs have important games can be shockingly low.
In the past, leagues have been strong enough to resist helping clubs but something may have to change.

Euxton are leaving the Ribb league next season to play in the Palace shield so the league is likely to go back to one division.

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:20 am

Not heard anything about this and really shocked, I used to live right next door to the ground and played for the club in the youth set up.
Loads of kids played for the youth set up , but moving up to the main teams was always tricky as the club was very clicky.
I know the clubhouse does well as its pretty much the only drinking establishment that side of Milnrow.
Has the team folded completely or have they moved to another league?

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:25 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:It could happen to any club at the moment, in any league.
Leagues may have to get more flexible with allowing clubs the ability to move the odd game to help clubs out.
A few local clubs have tried to get fixtures postponed on the weekend of Beat herder for instance in the last couple of years.
Availability when England play in tournaments or when football clubs have important games can be shockingly low.
In the past, leagues have been strong enough to resist helping clubs but something may have to change.

Euxton are leaving the Ribb league next season to play in the Palace shield so the league is likely to go back to one division.

Tricky one really as you know how difficult it can be to get the full fixtures in with our Northern climate, if everyone is moving games the season would never finish. You should maybe get 1 each a year, but even at that its a lot of rearranged games. Maybe dock a club 2 points as well

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:45 am

Sad news, Milnrow was a well run club in my youth.
1st casualty of the newly structured Lancashire League, long travel times don't help, Heywood were sensible in not signing up.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 am

CleggHall wrote:1st casualty of the newly structured Lancashire League, long travel times don't help, Heywood were sensible in not signing up.

I don't think it has anything to do with that

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:48 am

To be fair to Milnrow, they had only missed two fixtures, one, the first game of the season, Easter Sunday, their seconds didn't play and then last Friday at Rawtenstall.

The seconds one, I half understand as they are likely a young side and many of the players would be away with parents etc with it being Easter.

Last Friday is a poor show though. Surely among a club that runs a 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI you could find 11 lads to take the field?

I suspect now they have confirmed they are leaving they will fail to play more games, especially with the holiday season approaching.

I am all for flexibility with fixtures but hings like Beat Herder etc, not a chance. I missed lots of similar things as a youngster as I was playing cricket. It was my choice of course but as part of a team, I wouldn't dream of letting my team mates down to go on the lash watching a band. I bet they often wish I had! Admittedly I missed for holidays but I see that as a fair excuse with people restricted to school holidays etc.

I know of another LL club that have asked to move a 1st XI game, that has been moved to a reserve date, as they have 6 lads of on a stag do. They are saying they booked the stag do on the basis they had no fixture but the reserve dates are released at the same time as the fixtures so that doesn't wash for me. They can raise a team, just not their strongest team.

I'm all for flexibility but when weather can effect things like it does over here, we have to try and stick as close as we can to the planned schedule, to ensure nobody gets an unfair advantage.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:50 am

CleggHall wrote:Sad news, Milnrow was a well run club in my youth.
1st casualty of the newly structured Lancashire League, long travel times don't help, Heywood were sensible in not signing up.

Don't think travel has anything to so with it and last I heard, Heywood wanted to come in ASAP.

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:16 am

Maybe they're all watching women's football now ?

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:22 am

Problem with last Friday was how late it was before informing the league they wouldn’t have a team.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:42 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:To be fair to Milnrow, they had only missed two fixtures, one, the first game of the season, Easter Sunday, their seconds didn't play and then last Friday at Rawtenstall.

The seconds one, I half understand as they are likely a young side and many of the players would be away with parents etc with it being Easter.

Last Friday is a poor show though. Surely among a club that runs a 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI you could find 11 lads to take the field?

I suspect now they have confirmed they are leaving they will fail to play more games, especially with the holiday season approaching.

I am all for flexibility with fixtures but hings like Beat Herder etc, not a chance. I missed lots of similar things as a youngster as I was playing cricket. It was my choice of course but as part of a team, I wouldn't dream of letting my team mates down to go on the lash watching a band. I bet they often wish I had! Admittedly I missed for holidays but I see that as a fair excuse with people restricted to school holidays etc.

I know of another LL club that have asked to move a 1st XI game, that has been moved to a reserve date, as they have 6 lads of on a stag do. They are saying they booked the stag do on the basis they had no fixture but the reserve dates are released at the same time as the fixtures so that doesn't wash for me. They can raise a team, just not their strongest team.

I'm all for flexibility but when weather can effect things like it does over here, we have to try and stick as close as we can to the planned schedule, to ensure nobody gets an unfair advantage.

I used to be the same, not missed many games. Always started holidays on weekdays to reduce games missed etc.

But even I can't defend missing Scunthorpe away and Glenn Little's thunderbolt to secure promotion to score 15 n.o in a dead rubber cricket match.
My kids look at me strange when I explain why I missed certain Burnley FC moments.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:56 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Problem with last Friday was how late it was before informing the league they wouldn’t have a team.

They will have tried for as long as possible to raise a team.
Hopefully you sold the pies and beer ordered over the rest of the weekend.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:10 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:I used to be the same, not missed many games. Always started holidays on weekdays to reduce games missed etc.

But even I can't defend missing Scunthorpe away and Glenn Little's thunderbolt to secure promotion to score 15 n.o in a dead rubber cricket match.
My kids look at me strange when I explain why I missed certain Burnley FC moments.

I was scoring a very scratchy 30 or so against Nelson that day when Little scored.

Shot off to many a gig in Manchester after games had finished!

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:37 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:To be fair to Milnrow, they had only missed two fixtures, one, the first game of the season, Easter Sunday, their seconds didn't play and then last Friday at Rawtenstall.

The seconds one, I half understand as they are likely a young side and many of the players would be away with parents etc with it being Easter.

Last Friday is a poor show though. Surely among a club that runs a 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI you could find 11 lads to take the field?

I suspect now they have confirmed they are leaving they will fail to play more games, especially with the holiday season approaching.

I am all for flexibility with fixtures but hings like Beat Herder etc, not a chance. I missed lots of similar things as a youngster as I was playing cricket. It was my choice of course but as part of a team, I wouldn't dream of letting my team mates down to go on the lash watching a band. I bet they often wish I had! Admittedly I missed for holidays but I see that as a fair excuse with people restricted to school holidays etc.

I know of another LL club that have asked to move a 1st XI game, that has been moved to a reserve date, as they have 6 lads of on a stag do. They are saying they booked the stag do on the basis they had no fixture but the reserve dates are released at the same time as the fixtures so that doesn't wash for me. They can raise a team, just not their strongest team.

I'm all for flexibility but when weather can effect things like it does over here, we have to try and stick as close as we can to the planned schedule, to ensure nobody gets an unfair advantage.

Which club is that then?

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:38 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:I used to be the same, not missed many games. Always started holidays on weekdays to reduce games missed etc.

But even I can't defend missing Scunthorpe away and Glenn Little's thunderbolt to secure promotion to score 15 n.o in a dead rubber cricket match.
My kids look at me strange when I explain why I missed certain Burnley FC moments.

Red ink though!!! Well worth it for the average.

Hopey · Post by **Hopey** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:32 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:I was scoring a very scratchy 30 or so against Nelson that day when Little scored.

Shot off to many a gig in Manchester after games had finished!

That's got to have been your highest score ASC?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:34 pm

Hopey wrote:
That's got to have been your highest score ASC?

That's why it lives long in the memory......Little's goal nothing but a side show.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:33 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:To be fair to Milnrow, they had only missed two fixtures, one, the first game of the season, Easter Sunday, their seconds didn't play and then last Friday at Rawtenstall.

The seconds one, I half understand as they are likely a young side and many of the players would be away with parents etc with it being Easter.

Last Friday is a poor show though. Surely among a club that runs a 1st, 2nd and 3rd XI you could find 11 lads to take the field?

I suspect now they have confirmed they are leaving they will fail to play more games, especially with the holiday season approaching.

I am all for flexibility with fixtures but hings like Beat Herder etc, not a chance. I missed lots of similar things as a youngster as I was playing cricket. It was my choice of course but as part of a team, I wouldn't dream of letting my team mates down to go on the lash watching a band. I bet they often wish I had! Admittedly I missed for holidays but I see that as a fair excuse with people restricted to school holidays etc.

I know of another LL club that have asked to move a 1st XI game, that has been moved to a reserve date, as they have 6 lads of on a stag do. They are saying they booked the stag do on the basis they had no fixture but the reserve dates are released at the same time as the fixtures so that doesn't wash for me. They can raise a team, just not their strongest team.

I'm all for flexibility but when weather can effect things like it does over here, we have to try and stick as close as we can to the planned schedule, to ensure nobody gets an unfair advantage.

Some laudable sentiments, but I'm not sure they entirely match up the realities clubs are up against week on week - across the country, not just in the Lancashire League. I'm not suggesting this is true of the poster, but I do wonder whether this is the sort of sentiment that is found across league committees who have generally retired from playing the game - there's definitely a lack of appreciation of the problems too many clubs are grappling with. The world ha changed and league cricket hasn't yet changed - or at least not in the right way.

These days, there are so many demands on people's time, and people's lives are so fragmented, that availability simply isn't what it was 25-30 years ago. To stand a solid chance of getting two competitive saturday teams out every week of the season you need a pool of at least 30 proper players (and even that might not be enough at the school holiday peak). But this all comes at a time when the pool of available players is actually decreasing - simply fewer players can make themselves available for the full 7 hour window you've got to assume for a senior Saturday League match (plus transport) and there are fewer kids playing the game. The fact that leagues are covering increasing distances so travel times are increasing is only exacerbating the situation.

So you've got a need for more and more players to cover absences, combined with fewer active players. Something is going to have to give - realistically, certainly at second team level, games are going to have to be compressed into a maximum 5 hour window to avoid clashes with evening events and family commitments on a Saturday morning. And there's probably going to need to be fewer scheduled fixtures, to allow more flexibility in the fixture list and perhaps include some free weekends during the most difficult periods - for some leagues to start on Easter Saturday was utter madness, and simply reflected that there's a lack of grasp of reality amongst some leagues.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:06 pm

As ever a lot of realism there Spice, it must be a nightmare trying to run a club like Milnrow and get teams out every weekend. The world has moved on but have the league management?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:11 pm

CleggHall wrote:As ever a lot of realism there Spice, it must be a nightmare trying to run a club like Milnrow and get teams out every weekend. The world has moved on but have the league management?

There are 24 teams in the Lancashire League and as far as I’m aware there are 23 of them able to get teams out every weekend. The problem here is clearly Milnrow’s.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:12 pm

claretspice wrote:Some laudable sentiments, but I'm not sure they entirely match up the realities clubs are up against week on week - across the country, not just in the Lancashire League. I'm not suggesting this is true of the poster, but I do wonder whether this is the sort of sentiment that is found across league committees who have generally retired from playing the game - there's definitely a lack of appreciation of the problems too many clubs are grappling with. The world ha changed and league cricket hasn't yet changed - or at least not in the right way.

These days, there are so many demands on people's time, and people's lives are so fragmented, that availability simply isn't what it was 25-30 years ago. To stand a solid chance of getting two competitive saturday teams out every week of the season you need a pool of at least 30 proper players (and even that might not be enough at the school holiday peak). But this all comes at a time when the pool of available players is actually decreasing - simply fewer players can make themselves available for the full 7 hour window you've got to assume for a senior Saturday League match (plus transport) and there are fewer kids playing the game. The fact that leagues are covering increasing distances so travel times are increasing is only exacerbating the situation.

So you've got a need for more and more players to cover absences, combined with fewer active players. Something is going to have to give - realistically, certainly at second team level, games are going to have to be compressed into a maximum 5 hour window to avoid clashes with evening events and family commitments on a Saturday morning. And there's probably going to need to be fewer scheduled fixtures, to allow more flexibility in the fixture list and perhaps include some free weekends during the most difficult periods - for some leagues to start on Easter Saturday was utter madness, and simply reflected that there's a lack of grasp of reality amongst some leagues.

Spice, I am well aware of the difficulties for clubs and leagues but there has to be some balance. You can't organise a set of fixtures that cater for in excess of 500 junior and adult players per match day, around an handful of lads wanting to go to a music festival in the middle of the season, not when you also have to take into account things like cross over with football season etc. Where does it stop?

All the distractions available to youngsters these days were available when I was younger, music, football, girls, drinking with mates, stag do's etc.......that aside from the stuff that involves sitting on your backside at home such as wall to wall sport coverage, social media, net flix etc.

In the LL they have reduced game times for 2nd XI's and Third XI's and I was at a meeting where a stat was given that in reality only 20 odd % of games go the full distance in any event so the vast majority of games are finishing earlier already. Plus, you can drink until 8am Sunday morning now if you want to where has we had a smaller post game window in which to do other things.

Also I despair when junior participation is brought into these arguments. Junior sport, football and cricket is better organised now than ever before. Junior football when I was a lad consisted of some reasonable set ups club wise and a couple of dads running teams for their lads and his mates. Now there a multiple teams per age group at clubs and more qualified coaches than ever before. The same applies to cricket so whilst there might not be quite as many playing, the quality of what they get is way above what went before and the district and county path way stuff is also streets ahead of what it was when schools ran it. Also, I would argue that the route into senior cricket is much better than it ever was.

I actually don't think the issue is necessarily junior and teenage players, I see lots of teams that are heavy with juniors/teenagers, the issue is more that the older end don't play on as long and family life, ie taking your kids around all the activities they are signed up for takes over.

So in summary, whilst I would fully accept there are challenges, there has to be some balance or it makes a mockery of adult sport.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:21 pm

On the subject of junior players, I do think it is detrimental that cricket is no longer considered by so many schools. When I was there it was the summer sport, we had school cricket teams in every age group and we had teachers who played in the Lancs League and one who played for Lancs. Our headmaster was captain at the time of Burnley 2nd eleven. We even played cricket at primary school.

That’s a minus for me because there are not enough young kids being exposed to the game early enough.

But I definitely take the point made by a_s_c about it being better outside of school. I’ve not seen it first hand but you’d have to be blind living in this area and not to be aware of the coaching done at Lowerhouse, particularly by Stan Heaton. I’m sure there are others at other clubs too but what is going on at Lowerhouse is fantastic in giving young cricketers some good coaching but, more so, giving them a real interest in the game.

WadingInDeeper · Post by **WadingInDeeper** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:21 pm

claretspice wrote: and there are fewer kids playing the game.

This is something they are going to have to find a way of resolving.

At Colne there is a good, committed, little group of youngsters who will probably be together for the next 8 to 10 years. They seldom miss a practice, haven't missed a match, spend time together when games are on, and will probably be at school together over that time. But, even though we are now at the end of June, there are some on the periphery of that group who miss games due to football.

The big challenge comes in 10yrs, when some (or all) start going to university.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:30 pm

claretspice wrote:Some laudable sentiments, but I'm not sure they entirely match up the realities clubs are up against week on week - across the country, not just in the Lancashire League. I'm not suggesting this is true of the poster, but I do wonder whether this is the sort of sentiment that is found across league committees who have generally retired from playing the game - there's definitely a lack of appreciation of the problems too many clubs are grappling with. The world ha changed and league cricket hasn't yet changed - or at least not in the right way.

These days, there are so many demands on people's time, and people's lives are so fragmented, that availability simply isn't what it was 25-30 years ago. To stand a solid chance of getting two competitive saturday teams out every week of the season you need a pool of at least 30 proper players (and even that might not be enough at the school holiday peak). But this all comes at a time when the pool of available players is actually decreasing - simply fewer players can make themselves available for the full 7 hour window you've got to assume for a senior Saturday League match (plus transport) and there are fewer kids playing the game. The fact that leagues are covering increasing distances so travel times are increasing is only exacerbating the situation.

So you've got a need for more and more players to cover absences, combined with fewer active players. Something is going to have to give - realistically, certainly at second team level, games are going to have to be compressed into a maximum 5 hour window to avoid clashes with evening events and family commitments on a Saturday morning. And there's probably going to need to be fewer scheduled fixtures, to allow more flexibility in the fixture list and perhaps include some free weekends during the most difficult periods - for some leagues to start on Easter Saturday was utter madness, and simply reflected that there's a lack of grasp of reality amongst some leagues.

Absolutely bob on. This is pretty much it in a nutshell.

One of the key problems, as well, is retaining younger players once they get to 16. You'll see that many clubs have thriving junior sections until U18 but very few seem to stay on as they get to the later teenage years and early 20s. I don't know what the solution is.

I like your idea of reducing the time the game lasts but you may well get the unintended consequence of some not bothering because they think the game is too short(!) - i.e. I'm not bothering if I can only bowl 5 overs or never get a proper bat sort of argument.

You could also reduce the number of games in a season but I reckon that most clubs want a game scheduled at home - whether 1sts, 2nds or 3rds - pretty much every Sat and Sun simply because it gets some money over the bar during the day.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:33 pm

ClaretTony wrote:On the subject of junior players, I do think it is detrimental that cricket is no longer considered by so many schools. When I was there it was the summer sport, we had school cricket teams in every age group and we had teachers who played in the Lancs League and one who played for Lancs. Our headmaster was captain at the time of Burnley 2nd eleven. We even played cricket at primary school.

That’s a minus for me because there are not enough young kids being exposed to the game early enough.

But I definitely take the point made by a_s_c about it being better outside of school. I’ve not seen it first hand but you’d have to be blind living in this area and not to be aware of the coaching done at Lowerhouse, particularly by Stan Heaton. I’m sure there are others at other clubs too but what is going on at Lowerhouse is fantastic in giving young cricketers some good coaching but, more so, giving them a real interest in the game.

Schools cricket - even in the independent sector - is dying. Read the schools section in Wisden. There's so many exams going on now across so many age groups that schools and parents are very reluctant to give time to a sport that can be all day of a job.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:38 pm

WadingInDeeper wrote:This is something they are going to have to find a way of resolving.

At Colne there is a good, committed, little group of youngsters who will probably be together for the next 8 to 10 years. They seldom miss a practice, haven't missed a match, spend time together when games are on, and will probably be at school together over that time. But, even though we are now at the end of June, there are some on the periphery of that group who miss games due to football.

The big challenge comes in 10yrs, when some (or all) start going to university.

Football - as much as this is a football message board!!! - is a problem. Other sports don't even get oxygen due to the 24/7, 12 months a year that football is now. There doesn't seem to be an end to the football season - it just goes on. Even the women's World Cup (and I'm not saying this is a bad thing!!!) seems to have had more coverage than the cricket World Cup (and yes, we can blame the ECB for taking Sky's money plus the reluctance of free-to-air broadcasters to show cricket).

Case in point, tomorrow afternoon. Going to be glorious. I'm taking my lad to a footy tournament. He had one last week. And another a couple of weeks previously.

When I was young they used to take the nets down at the local park so you couldn't play football!!!

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:45 pm

Last few weeks because of trying to get a rearranged Worsley Cup game played Colne have had games scheduled on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It's pretty hard for a lad with a young family to justify disappearing from early Friday evening to Sunday night! Not to mention weddings, stag do's, holidays etc.
Times have changed as well, years ago if men wanted to spend all their weekend playing golf or cricket or whatever then their wife/partner just had to like it or lump it basically. We live in a much more equal society these days!

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:11 pm

One of the reasons why a lot of juniors drop out at 16 onwards is due to the fact that many part time jobs that attract workers from that age group are ones where you have to work at weekends, the hours are variable etc
The days of the mass 9-5 Mon-Fri jobs have gone and unfortunately cricket participation has suffered.
It is not just cricket, local Saturday football has died as well.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote:On the subject of junior players, I do think it is detrimental that cricket is no longer considered by so many schools. When I was there it was the summer sport, we had school cricket teams in every age group and we had teachers who played in the Lancs League and one who played for Lancs. Our headmaster was captain at the time of Burnley 2nd eleven. We even played cricket at primary school.

That’s a minus for me because there are not enough young kids being exposed to the game early enough.

But I definitely take the point made by a_s_c about it being better outside of school. I’ve not seen it first hand but you’d have to be blind living in this area and not to be aware of the coaching done at Lowerhouse, particularly by Stan Heaton. I’m sure there are others at other clubs too but what is going on at Lowerhouse is fantastic in giving young cricketers some good coaching but, more so, giving them a real interest in the game.

Add to that the criminal decision by the ECB to sell off the broadcasting rights for cricket to Sky. Really hurt participation levels

Mondsley · Post by **Mondsley** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:53 pm

I have read this thread with interest and a heavy heart. As a player at Littleborough in junior and senior teams from the Sixties through to the Nineties Milnrow were fierce rivals but the craic on and off the field was first class. As for the reasons for their resignation, I accept things have changed since "my day" and agree with many of the points made. Especially the problem with retaining interest at the ages of 17/18.

But I still think that there is a lack of commitment nowadays where players want to pick and choose their games. I missed the Sherpa Van final and the Orient game because I was playing cricket. "More fool you" you might say but as Captain I felt my responsibility was to my teammates and I didn't t want to let them down.

Apparently Milnrow has joined the GMCL from next season so hopefully they can rebuild. However, I fear they may not be the last to resign their League membership. I hope I'm wrong!

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:01 pm

Mondsley wrote:I have read this thread with interest and a heavy heart. As a player at Littleborough in junior and senior teams from the Sixties through to the Nineties Milnrow were fierce rivals but the craic on and off the field was first class. As for the reasons for their resignation, I accept things have changed since "my day" and agree with many of the points made. Especially the problem with retaining interest at the ages of 17/18.

But I still think that there is a lack of commitment nowadays where players want to pick and choose their games. I missed the Sherpa Van final and the Orient game because I was playing cricket. "More fool you" you might say but as Captain I felt my responsibility was to my teammates and I didn't t want to let them down.

Apparently Milnrow has joined the GMCL from next season so hopefully they can rebuild. However, I fear they may not be the last to resign their League membership. I hope I'm wrong!

The rivalry is still there, living in Littleborough I think the kids set up is pushed. not lived in Milnrow for a few years but every time I go for do's you never see kids games or any kids playing cricket on the pitch

Mondsley · Post by **Mondsley** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:08 pm

Shore claret wrote: The rivalry is still there, living in Littleborough I think the kids set up is pushed. not lived in Milnrow for a few years but every time I go for do's you never see kids games or any kids playing cricket on the pitch

I am sure it is. I dont get to Littleborough as often as I would like but I know there is a thriving junior section. As I alluded to above getting kids to play isn't the problem. It is keeping them interested when they reach their teenage years.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:08 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote: All the distractions available to youngsters these days were available when I was younger, music, football, girls, drinking with mates, stag do's etc.......that aside from the stuff that involves sitting on your backside at home such as wall to wall sport coverage, social media, net flix etc.

You see, I'm really not sure that this is valid. It ignores the fact that we're not just talking about youngsters here, we're talking about all players, and it ignores the fact that those "distractions" are a bit more than distractions. Some of them are obligations. The balance of family life has changed, and so have people circles. The example you cite about 6 of one team going on a stag is the exception these days because it reflects all those people being part of the same social circle. The idea that your life focused around the cricket club in summer because that's where your summer social scene revolves was true when I first got into cricket. It isn't now.

arise_sir_charge wrote:In the LL they have reduced game times for 2nd XI's and Third XI's and I was at a meeting where a stat was given that in reality only 20 odd % of games go the full distance in any event so the vast majority of games are finishing earlier already. Plus, you can drink until 8am Sunday morning now if you want to where has we had a smaller post game window in which to do other things.

Can't speak about the LL per se because it's not a league I've played in. But in the leagues I do know of, attempts to make games shorter have involved cosmetic changes (rather than reducing overs etc.) and haven't worked. As for your point about finishing earlier - that's again to miss the point. The threat of a game going on until 8pm is enough to rule probably 2-3 people out a week over the summer, because they're not getting home until 8.30/9pm - if they've got a wedding reception, or something else that they or the partner consider immovable, etc. they can't be getting of the cricket pitch at gone 8pm.

It's nothing to do with drinking time, necessarily. That's just one part of it for one part of the equation for one group of people - but those people are often the ones that the future of the game depends upon (i.e. the young), and so I'm not sure "well go out drinking later" is a helpful response - cricket doesn't have a god given right to survive so it has to find away of making itself compatible with how people want to live their lives, not how cricket clubs traditionally expected them to.

arise_sir_charge wrote: I actually don't think the issue is necessarily junior and teenage players, I see lots of teams that are heavy with juniors/teenagers, the issue is more that the older end don't play on as long and family life, ie taking your kids around all the activities they are signed up for takes over.

Not sure I'd agree with that either. Lots of teams have decent 15/16 year olds, but I don't see too many second teams dominated by 18/19 year olds as they might have been a few years ago. The drop off rate between 16 and 18 is frightening - again, it's way higher than it was 25-30 years ago. That's no reflection on club coaching, which I agree is often very good.

As to your wider point about the danger of making a mockery of adult sport - I think we agree that there's no easy answer. But as a player over the last 5 years I've been really alarmed at the way in which the standard has begun to decline perceptibly, and 10 aside second team cricket has at times become the norm. If this trend lasts another 10-15 years, the problem will go away because there'll be very little adult cricket left to be made a mockery of.

Interesting debate though - one for all fans of cricket.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:18 pm

Mondsley wrote:Apparently Milnrow has joined the GMCL from next season so hopefully they can rebuild. However, I fear they may not be the last to resign their League membership. I hope I'm wrong!

So do I have this right? They are resigning from the Lancashire League because they can't guarantee to be able to field a team each week BUT they will be joining another League where they will have to be able to field a team each week? Hmmm

Nothing to do with being not good enough to challenge for trophies in the LL, of course

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:22 pm

To be honest Spice I think despite what you say we largely agree. I'm not sure what league you are from but my comments are based on my experience in the Lancashire League.

A number of change sin the LL in recent years have been to try and tackle these issues (no replay dates in the league, reduced overs in 2nd and 3rd XI, reduced bowler allocations so more players bowl, earlier start times, time limits for overs bowled etc etc).

The reality is that you can't please everybody and make a sport like cricket fit everybody's lifestyles and individual needs. You have to try and strike some sort of balance and cater for the majority which I am sure leagues are trying to do. I know the LL are.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:24 pm

bfcmik wrote:So do I have this right? They are resigning from the Lancashire League because they can't guarantee to be able to field a team each week BUT they will be joining another League where they will have to be able to field a team each week? Hmmm

Nothing to do with being not good enough to challenge for trophies in the LL, of course

You are partly right.

They have said in their resignation letter that they do not feel they can compete.

One of the LL rules is you must have a 1st XI and a 2nd XI............Not sure the GMCL requires that also, I think you can choose which cups you enter where as in the LL, if you're in, you're in.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:27 pm

bfcmik wrote:So do I have this right? They are resigning from the Lancashire League because they can't guarantee to be able to field a team each week BUT they will be joining another League where they will have to be able to field a team each week? Hmmm

Nothing to do with being not good enough to challenge for trophies in the LL, of course

No, you haven't. In the Lancashire League you need to raise a 1st XI and a 2nd XI each week. In the new league, they will have only one side.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:35 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:To be honest Spice I think despite what you say we largely agree. I'm not sure what league you are from but my comments are based on my experience in the Lancashire League.

A number of change sin the LL in recent years have been to try and tackle these issues (no replay dates in the league, reduced overs in 2nd and 3rd XI, reduced bowler allocations so more players bowl, earlier start times, time limits for overs bowled etc etc).

The reality is that you can't please everybody and make a sport like cricket fit everybody's lifestyles and individual needs. You have to try and strike some sort of balance and cater for the majority which I am sure leagues are trying to do. I know the LL are.

Fair play - evidently the LL has been more proactive than many at second team level then. Suspect though that ultimately, every league will have to keep being more radical and go further to help the game survive and prosper - which is what we all want to see.

Mondsley · Post by **Mondsley** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:36 pm

dsr wrote: No, you haven't. In the Lancashire League you need to raise a 1st XI and a 2nd XI each week. In the new league, they will have only one side.

dsr beat me to it. Using the not good enough to challenge for titles reason may mean ending up with a very small league!

Longsidelenny · Post by **Longsidelenny** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:03 pm

The lancs league have a lot to answer for they have got there super league which they set out to get the league won’t worry who they loose along the way other clubs will give it a go to try and get where the big clubs are just look at the standard of players in div 1 very good for amatures div 2 is a million miles away if you don’t sort it now you will be back to one league which you started with and very quickly at that

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:18 pm

Mondsley - is that you Raymond?

Mondsley · Post by **Mondsley** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:21 pm

CleggHall wrote:Mondsley - is that you Raymond?

Depends who's asking

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:05 pm

ClaretTony wrote:There are 24 teams in the Lancashire League and as far as I’m aware there are 23 of them able to get teams out every weekend. The problem here is clearly Milnrow’s.

If you played cricket, and there was a game on the first day of the football season, which would you choose?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:10 pm

Grumps wrote:If you played cricket, and there was a game on the first day of the football season, which would you choose?

Only ever happened to me the once. That was in 1980 and we were playing Newport on the Turf. I missed the football.

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:51 am

ClaretTony wrote:Only ever happened to me the once. That was in 1980 and we were playing Newport on the Turf. I missed the football.

Fair enough, credit to you, but many nowadays take the other option, especially if they've saved hard for a season ticket, the way the seasons run, playing cricket could mean missing 3 or 4 home games off that season ticket.
The other big factor why players miss games in my experience is childcare. When I was playing very few woman worked, and if they did it tended to be 9 to 5 Monday to Friday, so they were there to look after the children on a Saturday or Sunday, Nowadays most women work, and more people now work weekends or shifts, meaning many men become the parent responsible for childcare at the weekend.
Clubs and the league have to be more understanding of the issues why players miss games or it will get even more difficult to attract young players into the game