Steven Defour back in training

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
Funkydrummer
Posts: 8310
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:50 pm
Been Liked: 2949 times
Has Liked: 2063 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Funkydrummer » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:06 pm

Darnhill Claret wrote:Without question I would state that Defour is a million times better than either Dodson or Stevens. They couldn’t hold a candle.
That's pure unadulterated sh!te and, as has been intimated earlier, is no doubt the ramblings of someone
who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Herts Clarets
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:18 pm
Been Liked: 1754 times
Has Liked: 469 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Herts Clarets » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:12 pm

A better player than Martin Dobson or Trevor Steven? Roll me a fat one of what it is you have been smoking.

lakedistrictclaret
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:30 am
Been Liked: 517 times
Has Liked: 183 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by lakedistrictclaret » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:A better player than Martin Dobson or Trevor Steven? Roll me a fat one of what it is you have been smoking.
I think you may have been whooshed, Herts!
This user liked this post: Darnhill Claret

Bosscat
Posts: 25364
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:51 am
Been Liked: 8429 times
Has Liked: 18098 times

Re: New signing

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:What better than Dodson,James,Lochhead,Payton,Little,Stevens and many more.He has a few tattoos doesn’t,t make him a great player
Ooooh you know something we don't about new signings...

What position do Dodson and Stevens play???
Where we getting them from???

I've tried googling them and nobody has heard of them

:lol: :lol: :lol:
If you're going to Troll learn to spell ffs

Defour is streets ahead of Dodson and Stevens (whoever they are :lol: )
Last edited by Bosscat on Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This user liked this post: Darnhill Claret

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Spijed » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:A better player than Martin Dobson or Trevor Steven? Roll me a fat one of what it is you have been smoking.
Defour has played over 50 times for Belgium.

Lord Rothbury
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:44 am
Been Liked: 133 times
Has Liked: 68 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Lord Rothbury » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:18 pm

I could play 50 times for Belgium.
This user liked this post: Funkydrummer

Nonayforever
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:15 pm
Been Liked: 690 times
Has Liked: 172 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:28 pm

It's possible with a fit Defour in the squad that Dyche could put out a 3 5 2 with a pre season under their belts

Burnley1989
Posts: 7346
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 am
Been Liked: 2275 times
Has Liked: 2154 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Burnley1989 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:31 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:I could play 50 times for Belgium.
:lol: yeah to be fair they’re not even world number 1 anymore

Lord Rothbury
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:44 am
Been Liked: 133 times
Has Liked: 68 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Lord Rothbury » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:36 pm

Spijed wrote:Defour has played over 50 times for Belgium.
How many of those 50 did he complete the full 90 mins.

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Spijed » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

At his very best there is no doubt that Defour would be a far better player than both Martin Dobson or Trevor Steven. He was regarded as one of the best young players in Europe before his bad injury.

Herts Clarets
Posts: 3937
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:18 pm
Been Liked: 1754 times
Has Liked: 469 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Herts Clarets » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:38 pm

Spijed wrote:Defour has played over 50 times for Belgium.
Steven won 9 league titles in England, France and Scotland, FA Cup, ECWC, played in 2 World Cups and was at one point,I believe, the highest paid player in Europe. That's some what ahead of what Defour has achieved.

Bosscat
Posts: 25364
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:51 am
Been Liked: 8429 times
Has Liked: 18098 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Bosscat » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:54 pm

Herts Clarets wrote:Steven won 9 league titles in England, France and Scotland, FA Cup, ECWC, played in 2 World Cups and was at one point,I believe, the highest paid player in Europe. That's some what ahead of what Defour has achieved.
Yes but how many caps have Dodson and Stevens got huh ;)
These 2 users liked this post: bobinho Darnhill Claret

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by aggi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:59 pm

TVC15 wrote:You mean Trevor Steven without an S and Martin Dobson not Dodson.
I’m guessing since you don’t know either of their names you don’t know much about their careers or ability either.
I think Defour is an excellent player but he achieved in the game a fraction of what either Steven or Dobson achieved.
Defour was captain of a title winning Belgian team (and got the Golden Shoe for best player in the league at 19). He's won another three titles and a variety of cups as well plus 50 international caps.

I'm not sure if I'd describe that as a fraction of what Dobson has achieved.

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by TVC15 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:07 pm

aggi wrote:Defour was captain of a title winning Belgian team (and got the Golden Shoe for best player in the league at 19). He's won another three titles and a variety of cups as well plus 50 international caps.

I'm not sure if I'd describe that as a fraction of what Dobson has achieved.
Depends if the fraction is 9/10ths

In all seriousness the Belgian league - really ?
My Uncle lives in Brussels and he won the Golden Shoe one year...and he’s never played football - he was just walking past the ground
These 4 users liked this post: Dark Cloud Darnhill Claret fatboy47 Claret-On-A-T-Rex

Dark Cloud
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:03 am
Been Liked: 1981 times
Has Liked: 3299 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Dark Cloud » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 pm

TVC15 wrote:Depends if the fraction is 9/10ths

In all seriousness the Belgian league - really ?
My Uncle lives in Brussels and he won the Golden Shoe one year...and he’s never played football - he was just walking past the ground
Belgium is the sort of place where "men of a certain age" probably WEAR golden shoes!

Spijed
Posts: 17112
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:33 pm
Been Liked: 2892 times
Has Liked: 1294 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Spijed » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:11 pm

TVC15 wrote:Depends if the fraction is 9/10ths

In all seriousness the Belgian league - really ?
My Uncle lives in Brussels and he won the Golden Shoe one year...and he’s never played football - he was just walking past the ground
Then again, winning league titles in Belgium carries far greater weight than those in Scotland (which was used in the comparison with Trevor Steven).
This user liked this post: Bosscat

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by TVC15 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:13 pm

Spijed wrote:Then again, winning league titles in Belgium carries far greater weight than those in Scotland (which was used in the comparison with Trevor Steven).
But he won it in France and England too.
Plus when he was in Scotland Celtic and Rangers were both very decent teams who would have walked the Belgian league and competed in England.
Just look at the players who played in that Rangers team with Trevor Steven

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:21 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:I could play 50 times for Belgium.
is that you, Vincent? ;)
These 2 users liked this post: IanMcL Darnhill Claret

Paul Waine
Posts: 9845
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:28 pm
Been Liked: 2344 times
Has Liked: 3164 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Paul Waine » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:30 pm

Seriously, guys. We all know that if Steven Defour had not got a bad injury in his "locker" that he wouldn't be playing at t'Turf, certainly not in a Claret and Blue strip. In today's market, but for his injury he'd probably be a £50 million player and £100k per week. For the games we have seen him play he's been great value. If he manages to play a quarter of this season then he will have earned his £2 million in wages (or whatever it is). If he plays more than that then it's all up side. And, if an injury strikes again, then no worries....

UTC
This user liked this post: Bosscat

Morrisminor
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:25 pm
Been Liked: 17 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Morrisminor » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:35 pm

Whats with all those TATS FFS Wish the stupid trend of celebs with tats will soon be seen as stupid

Longside4evr
Posts: 2502
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:34 am
Been Liked: 519 times
Has Liked: 266 times
Location: Malaga Spain

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Longside4evr » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:58 pm

Martin Dobson was absolute class and Trevor Steven even better
What them players did for Burnley in one season alone knocks spots off what Defour as done in three with us
Not saying Defour hasn't got the skill level to be as good if not better than them to it's just he can't sustain continuity and brakes down with injury to get a true reflection of him
Any one can be a world beater in bit parts
What's required is a lengthy run to gauge just how good he can be for us there's no doubt we've seen glimpses of it but we need more than that from him
Hope he can keep fit and show us the real Defour we has a club have been very patient so hope he can give us something back this coming one

Spike
Posts: 2682
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm
Been Liked: 594 times
Has Liked: 1225 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Spike » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:40 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Ha ha.The guy has scored one good goal at Old Trafford and some think he is as good as Pele.He is at best an average Prem midfielder.Spent more time on the treatment table than on the pitch.
Both Steven and Dobson were magical players on a very consistent basis. Defour has yet to produce over a handful of magic moments never min£ games.


Having said that I really hope he is fit and has an amazing season

Harrythomsonscap
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:49 pm
Been Liked: 21 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Harrythomsonscap » Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:55 pm

Is he Auditioning for the Brittania Coconutters :lol:

superdimitri
Posts: 4936
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:04 pm
Been Liked: 1005 times
Has Liked: 725 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by superdimitri » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:58 am

We're in limbo with him, he's capable enough for it to make sense building a team round him yet at the same time if we do it could turn out to be very costly when he gets injured.

I believe that's one of the reasons we tried to play 1 up top only for the system to fail without him.

If we are to expand on the industrial 442, play better football and take games to teams we need someone who is good backup for him when we play that system.

If we're naive and trust in him not getting injured then it'll cost us.

WestMidsClaret
Posts: 1468
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:55 pm
Been Liked: 534 times
Has Liked: 506 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by WestMidsClaret » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:25 am

There's some weird "fans" on this board.

claretonthecoast1882
Posts: 10088
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:59 pm
Been Liked: 4161 times
Has Liked: 57 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:29 am

WestMidsClaret wrote:There's some weird "fans" on this board.

Those who want him out or those who think he wants to be injured ? :D

I like the idea that even though he is under contract just get rid, kick him out the club. These are the same people who if a player they like doesn't sign a new deal he is a traitor but would happily remove players they don't like while under contract.

Think they were once described as those who know everything by playing championship manager in cheat mode.
This user liked this post: WestMidsClaret

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: New signing

Post by claretspice » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:36 am

ksrclaret wrote:I disagree there. Being in the PL is so important to our income, we must take a risk-based approach to this problem. That means we need to be looking to sign another central midfielder, even if Defour stays, for two very good, risk-based reasons.

Firstly, it's obvious that the odds on Defour remaining fit for a long enough period are stacked against him. His fitness record for us is very poor. We need to take the view that we've got 3 central midfielders, and whenever Defour is fit we've got a bonus midfielder. It's an expensive idea, but then again it's our own fault for signing such an injury prone player on such a large contract.

Secondly, let's not start the season assuming we'll play 4-4-2 in every game. We must factor in the possibility that we'll play 5 across the middle at some point, which means that carrying 5 CMs is not unreasonable.
Not sure anyone would argue with the logic of any of that. I think the ideal state of affairs would be to move Defour on and bring in a replacement in the centre of midfield. But if that's not possible, we have a quandary. You either write Defour off and leave him to rot in the reserves, which is both expensive and potentially disruptive to squad harmony, or you treat him as one of your first four midfielders. I don't think you can write him off on the one hand, replace him and then treat him as a "bonus" when he's fit - because if he's fit quite a lot, his or someone else's nose gets put out of joint quite a lot. There is a credible school of thought that we saw the problems having too many first choice goalkeepers can create last season, and it is precisely the same principle.

Secondly, I agree that regardless of whether keep Defour or not, it would be helpful to have a 5th central midfield option. But don't forget we already have Brady who has played as the "top" of a central midfield triangle for Ireland, and McNeil. So perhaps we already have that in the squad, and we'd be better off looking to supplement our options up front to free up that flexibility.

Blackrod
Posts: 5114
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:41 pm
Been Liked: 1348 times
Has Liked: 608 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Blackrod » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:20 am

For me we need another central midfielder to challenge at least. If Defour is injured and Cork has another poor season we look very one dimensional again. This is the most important position to strengthen in my opinion.
This user liked this post: summitclaret

IanMcL
Posts: 30126
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:27 pm
Been Liked: 6340 times
Has Liked: 8654 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by IanMcL » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 am

I am pleased Defour is back. Considering how the fans readily sang, 'We've got Defour', I suspect, either an outbreak of dementia or Burnleyitus, considering how easily his impact has been forgotten.

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretspice » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:36 am

Blackrod wrote:For me we need another central midfielder to challenge at least. If Defour is injured and Cork has another poor season we look very one dimensional again. This is the most important position to strengthen in my opinion.
It's become fashionable to knock him, but Cork can't have been that bad after Christmas, he played virtually every minute as we performed better than just about every team outside the top 6. I don't disagree that it would be good to have more cover for him - as noted earlier, Cork's the one who dovetails with either Westwood or Defour - but he's a good player who has played a lot of top flight football. We simply can't afford - either financially or for squad harmony - to simply buy players "just in case" one of those we've previously signed and who has done OK for us loses form.
These 2 users liked this post: Stalbansclaret Hibsclaret

Fretters
Posts: 2533
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:56 am
Been Liked: 1035 times
Has Liked: 544 times

Re: New signing

Post by Fretters » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:43 am

Royboyclaret wrote:We need to avoid this obsession on here regarding formations and the limitations within them.

Why can't Defour perform in a team containing two strikers?.....Of course he can, Defour is our best player by a million miles and, if fit, should be an automatic pick no matter what formation we employ. It's like refusing to play Jimmy Mac in a team with Pointer and Robson as two strikers, it would never happen.

In fact Defour is our best player since Jimmy Mac and Dyche needs to utilise him wherever and whenever so long as he remains fit.
Sorry, I shouldn't have said 'we can't' play him in a 442, I just don't expect Dyche to do so.

Colburn_Claret
Posts: 8069
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:30 pm
Been Liked: 3060 times
Has Liked: 5023 times
Location: Catterick N.Yorks

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:46 am

claretspice wrote:It's become fashionable to knock him, but Cork can't have been that bad after Christmas, he played virtually every minute as we performed better than just about every team outside the top 6. I don't disagree that it would be good to have more cover for him - as noted earlier, Cork's the one who dovetails with either Westwood or Defour - but he's a good player who has played a lot of top flight football. We simply can't afford - either financially or for squad harmony - to simply buy players "just in case" one of those we've previously signed and who has done OK for us loses form.
Sadly Cork was that bad last season. Its his weakness in the tackle that is so poor. Even midgets knock him over, and Westwood made far more telling passes going forward. I like Jack, he was a great signing, but he either needs to up it this season, or make way for someone better. At his age I just dont see him getting better.

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:00 am

claretspice wrote:It's become fashionable to knock him, but Cork can't have been that bad after Christmas, he played virtually every minute as we performed better than just about every team outside the top 6. I don't disagree that it would be good to have more cover for him - as noted earlier, Cork's the one who dovetails with either Westwood or Defour - but he's a good player who has played a lot of top flight football. We simply can't afford - either financially or for squad harmony - to simply buy players "just in case" one of those we've previously signed and who has done OK for us loses form.
Firstly we can afford it.
But more importantly the scenario you are describing is the first half of the season. Cork had been great in the previous season but he completely lost his form and confidence before Christmas and whilst he was better after Christmas overall, by his standards he had a poor season. He kept his place before Christmas because Defour wasn’t fit....and he has rarely played Hendrick in that role. We were crying out to replace Cork as his form and confidence was getting worse and worse over a period of 2 or 3 months from September.
In my view we need to be bringing in a central midfielder to compete with Westwood and Cork in terms of loss of form, injuries, suspensions etc.
This user liked this post: FactualFrank

4:20
Posts: 2166
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:23 am
Been Liked: 1061 times
Has Liked: 1177 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by 4:20 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:16 am

PicsArt_07-02-11.12.05.jpg
PicsArt_07-02-11.12.05.jpg (237.88 KiB) Viewed 2256 times
This user liked this post: Paul Waine

tiger76
Posts: 25697
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
Been Liked: 4644 times
Has Liked: 9849 times
Location: Glasgow

Re: New signing

Post by tiger76 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:25 am

summitclaret wrote:Totally agree, but if we don't bring in someone else capable of starting in cm as well then we deserve everything we get if things go wrong.
We're taking a hell of a risk in banking on Defour playing a reasonable number of games next season,either way we have to strengthen our CM area,it cost us big time in 2015 when Marney was crocked,and we ideally need a ball winning player who can keep it simple.

We got away with it last term due to Westwood's outstanding run of form,but Jack Cork was badly off the pace and Hendrick was inconsistent.

We can't expect Ashley to carry our midfield single-handedly week in week out.
These 2 users liked this post: FactualFrank jojomk1

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretspice » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:34 am

TVC15 wrote:Firstly we can afford it.
But more importantly the scenario you are describing is the first half of the season. Cork had been great in the previous season but he completely lost his form and confidence before Christmas and whilst he was better after Christmas overall, by his standards he had a poor season. He kept his place before Christmas because Defour wasn’t fit....and he has rarely played Hendrick in that role. We were crying out to replace Cork as his form and confidence was getting worse and worse over a period of 2 or 3 months from September.
In my view we need to be bringing in a central midfielder to compete with Westwood and Cork in terms of loss of form, injuries, suspensions etc.
Buy as you correctly say, we had Hendrick. Partly, the truth is that Cork is rated more highly by Dyche than by many of us. Cork had a much better second half of the season (not perfect, but that's why he plays for Burnley) and the idea that we were completely carried by Westwood in that period is utterly implausible (as much as I'm a big fan of Westwood).

I suspect that if Defour is fully fit and the physios don't see a particular cause for concern, a central midfielder is a lower priority for Dyche than for many of us - including me.

summitclaret
Posts: 3891
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:39 pm
Been Liked: 826 times
Has Liked: 1307 times
Location: burnley

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by summitclaret » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:39 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:Sadly Cork was that bad last season. Its his weakness in the tackle that is so poor. Even midgets knock him over, and Westwood made far more telling passes going forward. I like Jack, he was a great signing, but he either needs to up it this season, or make way for someone better. At his age I just dont see him getting better.
This is the reality that some can't or don't want to see. Stand still and we will fail imo. Get Mooy in to start amd Jack will have to up his game. Get nobody and Jack has no incentive to.

The idea that we can't afford a 5th cm when Defour has only 1 year left is weird. As os the idea that we have to choose between a cm and a striker. If we don't get both and a left back, we deserve to be in trouble imo.
Last edited by summitclaret on Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

LawsCanalJump
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:59 pm
Been Liked: 119 times
Has Liked: 62 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by LawsCanalJump » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:39 am

A match fit defour has to be in the starting 11
He has had a lot of time to sort this injury out and a proper pre season behind him and we could see a different player
IMO 60 minutes a game would suit him to avoid any issues

2 Bee Holed
Posts: 1856
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:37 am
Been Liked: 548 times
Has Liked: 31 times
Location: South Manchester

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by 2 Bee Holed » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:44 am

Defour hasn't just scored 1 wonder goal for us.
Off the top of my head I can think of Hull City, an FA cup goal (lob) and the Old Trafford one.

Now IMO I have seen glimpses from Defour of him being a world class player.
Something which I am struggling to remember even from the team of the 70's.

I admit, he has been injury prone and when he does play his world class play isn't evident for 90mins.
However, I am willing him on to get fit and give us 60mins per match of pure skill and entertainment.
Which until McNeil started playing last season, we had been sadly lacking.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by aggi » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:59 am

claretspice wrote:It's become fashionable to knock him, but Cork can't have been that bad after Christmas, he played virtually every minute as we performed better than just about every team outside the top 6. I don't disagree that it would be good to have more cover for him - as noted earlier, Cork's the one who dovetails with either Westwood or Defour - but he's a good player who has played a lot of top flight football. We simply can't afford - either financially or for squad harmony - to simply buy players "just in case" one of those we've previously signed and who has done OK for us loses form.
I'd say the opposite. We can't afford to keep expecting that players will be able to perform at 100% week in, week out, season in, season out.

There's no pressure on Cork, if he plays badly we can't drop him, there isn't another player in the squad who does what we need him to do. You're right that Cork was OK after Christmas, but you can't just ignore the first half of the season (even though some posters seem to believe you can).

Personally I'd like to see us spend £20m on a central midfielder who would improve our midfield. I'd say it's probably the most important position to improve on in this transfer window.
These 4 users liked this post: FactualFrank tiger76 Whitgord rob63

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:26 am

claretspice wrote:Buy as you correctly say, we had Hendrick. Partly, the truth is that Cork is rated more highly by Dyche than by many of us. Cork had a much better second half of the season (not perfect, but that's why he plays for Burnley) and the idea that we were completely carried by Westwood in that period is utterly implausible (as much as I'm a big fan of Westwood).

I suspect that if Defour is fully fit and the physios don't see a particular cause for concern, a central midfielder is a lower priority for Dyche than for many of us - including me.
But as I also said Dyche does not fancy Hendrick in that position seemingly - if Hendrick can’t replace Cork in the poor form he was in last year he never will.
To be honest when I saw how Cork was playing in games like Wolves away I thought he was playing with an injury - but as he carried on with his poor form it seemed to be fatigue but mainly a loss of confidence. I don’t think his form after Christmas was that special either - certainly nowhere near the form of the previous season. And whilst it was not myself who said that Westwood carried the whole midfield he was our best player last year and with the form of McNeil these were the 2 main midfield players that caused the upturn in our form.
As for Defour being fully fit - IF he is then I agree it may not be an immediate or our number one priority to sign a CM but I can’t believe for one second that Defour is “fully” fit and given the number of times he broke down last year trying to regain fitness it’s probably more likely that we may never see him play for Burnley again.

So that possibly leaves us with Westwood who had a great season but might struggle to hit those levels again, Cork who had a poor season and Hendrick who has rarely played as a CM in the last 2 years. To me that means that CM is actually the number one priority alongside another striker.
I’d be happy if we spent £15m to £20m each on a striker and a CM and then bring in a young up and coming left back for a couple of million to cover Taylor.
These 2 users liked this post: summitclaret FactualFrank

Hibsclaret
Posts: 3940
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:00 pm
Been Liked: 1233 times
Has Liked: 490 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Hibsclaret » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:56 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:Sadly Cork was that bad last season. Its his weakness in the tackle that is so poor. Even midgets knock him over, and Westwood made far more telling passes going forward. I like Jack, he was a great signing, but he either needs to up it this season, or make way for someone better. At his age I just dont see him getting better.
Cork was that bad that we could and should have had 8 premier league wins in a row after Christmas. You really don’t get that form by carrying passengers in the prem. Ashley’s goal at OT was created by Cork for a start. He was very good in the 2nd half of the season like the rest of the team. Pretty much the whole team were poor up to and including Boxing Day (certainly not just Cork).

People really need to understand the impact of an unusual pre season for Cork and a number of our other players last season...
These 2 users liked this post: claretspice evensteadiereddie

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretspice » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:12 pm

aggi wrote:I'd say the opposite. We can't afford to keep expecting that players will be able to perform at 100% week in, week out, season in, season out.

There's no pressure on Cork, if he plays badly we can't drop him, there isn't another player in the squad who does what we need him to do. You're right that Cork was OK after Christmas, but you can't just ignore the first half of the season (even though some posters seem to believe you can).

Personally I'd like to see us spend £20m on a central midfielder who would improve our midfield. I'd say it's probably the most important position to improve on in this transfer window.
Like I said, be delighted to see us spend £20 million on a midfielder compatible with both Westwood and Cork this summer. Just not sure it's realistic whilst we've got a highly paid former Belgium international in the squad - I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about him moving on, and it makes me think he won't, and if he doesn't I'm not convinced we'll prioritise a central midfielder.

Not the case to say we've no-one else who can play Cork's role, by the way. Hendrick's done it. And whilst I agree with the general sentiment that Cork was below his best before Christmas last season, I suspect the reason we've seen less of Hendrick in the middle is less because Dyche doesn't rate Hendrick (he clearly does), and more because Dyche does rate Cork.

For what it's worth, my biggest priorities this summer - apart from a first choice midfielder if Defour does leave - would be an injection of pace in the shape of soemone capable of operating either out wide or up front, and a link up striker to provide a cuter option than either Barnes or Wood, plus another full back option. And if one of those players can also operate in midfield to add depth, so much the better.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex
Been Liked: 1 time
Has Liked: 826 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Claret-On-A-T-Rex » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:22 pm

TVC15 wrote:Depends if the fraction is 9/10ths

In all seriousness the Belgian league - really ?
My Uncle lives in Brussels and he won the Golden Shoe one year...and he’s never played football - he was just walking past the ground
Isn't there a Bond baddie from Belgium called Goldshoe?

TVC15
Posts: 8211
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 pm
Been Liked: 3321 times
Has Liked: 601 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:28 pm

claretspice wrote:Like I said, be delighted to see us spend £20 million on a midfielder compatible with both Westwood and Cork this summer. Just not sure it's realistic whilst we've got a highly paid former Belgium international in the squad - I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about him moving on, and it makes me think he won't, and if he doesn't I'm not convinced we'll prioritise a central midfielder.

Not the case to say we've no-one else who can play Cork's role, by the way. Hendrick's done it. And whilst I agree with the general sentiment that Cork was below his best before Christmas last season, I suspect the reason we've seen less of Hendrick in the middle is less because Dyche doesn't rate Hendrick (he clearly does), and more because Dyche does rate Cork.

For what it's worth, my biggest priorities this summer - apart from a first choice midfielder if Defour does leave - would be an injection of pace in the shape of soemone capable of operating either out wide or up front, and a link up striker to provide a cuter option than either Barnes or Wood, plus another full back option. And if one of those players can also operate in midfield to add depth, so much the better.
Why would Defour leave ?
If he’s not fit he stays and picks up a wage better than any other club could offer him on the slightest chance he could pass a medical
If he’s fit he stays and tries to get in the team and possibly put himself in the shop window for next year.

Stay at Burnley and he will have access to a great medical / physio team which could mean he gives himself a year of treatment and get ready for someone to give him one final contract as he will be available on a free.

Not blaming Defour whatever he does - he has a very difficult choice to make and it has got to be frustrating for him being as talented as he is and breaking down so often.

aggi
Posts: 8762
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:31 am
Been Liked: 2109 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:15 am

claretspice wrote:Like I said, be delighted to see us spend £20 million on a midfielder compatible with both Westwood and Cork this summer. Just not sure it's realistic whilst we've got a highly paid former Belgium international in the squad - I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about him moving on, and it makes me think he won't, and if he doesn't I'm not convinced we'll prioritise a central midfielder.

Not the case to say we've no-one else who can play Cork's role, by the way. Hendrick's done it. And whilst I agree with the general sentiment that Cork was below his best before Christmas last season, I suspect the reason we've seen less of Hendrick in the middle is less because Dyche doesn't rate Hendrick (he clearly does), and more because Dyche does rate Cork.

For what it's worth, my biggest priorities this summer - apart from a first choice midfielder if Defour does leave - would be an injection of pace in the shape of soemone capable of operating either out wide or up front, and a link up striker to provide a cuter option than either Barnes or Wood, plus another full back option. And if one of those players can also operate in midfield to add depth, so much the better.
I don't think Hendrick can do the role that Cork does. He's decent with the ball but Cork's main role is breaking up play and that isn't Hendrick's strength. He's mobile enough but isn't great in the tackle or with positioning to intercept the ball.

Quicknick
Posts: 5581
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:25 pm
Been Liked: 1208 times
Has Liked: 7098 times
Location: Chiang Rai, Thailand.

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Quicknick » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:03 am

Dodson and Stevens?

Claretmatt4
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:31 am
Been Liked: 1049 times
Has Liked: 723 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by Claretmatt4 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:03 am

I don't care if he's better than those two, I'm just glad he's back in training.

Let's have it Steven!

claretblue
Posts: 6410
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:36 pm
Been Liked: 1831 times
Has Liked: 961 times
Location: cloud 9 since Dyche appointed

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretblue » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:24 am

TVC15 wrote:Stay at Burnley and he will have access to a great medical / physio team
don't think he uses our medical/physio team...prefers to return to Belgium for treatment
This user liked this post: Tall Paul

claretspice
Posts: 5660
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:13 am
Been Liked: 2801 times
Has Liked: 138 times

Re: Steven Defour back in training

Post by claretspice » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:41 am

aggi wrote:I don't think Hendrick can do the role that Cork does. He's decent with the ball but Cork's main role is breaking up play and that isn't Hendrick's strength. He's mobile enough but isn't great in the tackle or with positioning to intercept the ball.
Fair enough. Don't especially agree - I think if you're pairing Hendrick and Westwood, say, Westy plays a bit deeper and does more of that stuff - of course Hendrick played 31 games in the middle of the park when we (comfortably) stayed up in our first year back (and when he partnered Westwood, they've looked a balanced combination to me). It's just that Cork is, I agree, a better player (and I think the assumption we can easily improve upon him for even 15-20 million is open to doubt).

Post Reply