"Never again"

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ClaretAndJew
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Re: "Never again"

Post by ClaretAndJew » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:22 pm

Elbarad wrote:The US government offers free airplane rides back to their country of origin if anyone decides they don't like the detention facility. Not many Jews got that offer from Germany.

If they don't want to end up in a camp, they should stay home or apply for legal entry. I know their countries might not be as nice as the US, but frankly, that's just too bad. The US doesn't owe the whole world the right to move here. It was their choice to break the law coming to the US, and it's their choice to stay when they could be let out and sent home at any time.
Are you saying that it's their fault they are in these camps?

Was it the fault of the Jews too?

GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:23 pm

evensteadiereddie wrote:I think you've caught the lot, IT.
We will do it all again when he next creates a brand new thread on the same/similar subject because that's what we all like to do.

I'm still waiting to find out if the US should allow everyone to move there whenever they feel like it

Leisure
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Leisure » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:23 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Some are fleeing, some clearly aren't and they're taking advantage of a situation for their own needs.
Correct and why don't the people who legitimately are fleeing for their lives stay in the first safe country that they get to? Instead of traversing the length of Europe to get to the UK!
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:24 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Are you saying that it's their fault they are in these camps?

Was it the fault of the Jews too?
Genocide is different to stopping mass immigration.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:26 pm

Leisure wrote:Correct and why don't the people who legitimately are fleeing for their lives stay in the first safe country that they get to? Instead of traversing the length of Europe to get to the UK!
Honestly I've no idea, because I'd rather live somewhere in Europe at times.

We can toss out the usual answers in regards to free housing/benefits etc but I'm not always convinced that's why.
Maybe it's the language because plenty of them seem to have a grasp of English, but equally a large number stay on the European mainland.

JohnMcGreal
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Re: "Never again"

Post by JohnMcGreal » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:26 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Australia limits the number of refugees it accepts each year and has a different number of migrants.

It also had that place in a different country to process refugees when they stopped their boats if I remember rightly and they were castigated for that plenty of people.

Yet for some reason Australia doing those things doesn't appear to be as much of an issue on here as the USA trying to stop refugees pouring over their border.
Australia is one of the most racist countries in the world, so I'm not sure that's the best example to use when trying to defend Trump's USA.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:29 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Australia is one of the most racist countries in the world, so I'm not sure that's the best example to use when trying to defend Trump's USA.
I'm not defending the USA, just asking why it's fine on here for one country to restrict immigration, drop them off outside of at an island elsewhere for 'processing' etc yet it doesn't really get a mention on here but the USA is battered for it almost daily by IT and others....?
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evensteadiereddie
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Re: "Never again"

Post by evensteadiereddie » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:29 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:We will do it all again when he next creates a brand new thread on the same/similar subject because that's what we all like to do.

I'm still waiting to find out if the US should allow everyone to move there whenever they feel like it
I'm sure you will.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:30 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nah I'm good cheers.

You'll argue with yourself if it made you feel better, I just made an assumption based on what I've read.

Now we've cleared that up, how many people should the US allow to cross their border illegally?
Still waiting for that to be answered but none of you seem bothered enough..

No one should be allowed to cross the border illegally. That's a retarded question.

And i've already told you why so many people are crossing illegally, and why the US government is responsible for it. Have you forgotten? I'll briefly explain again.

The US are illegally holding people in Mexico to prevent them stepping on US soil where they can then claim asylum and exercise their rights under US law (because they'll be in the US). This means illegal crossings will skyrocket because any idiot will tell you that if you make something impossible to do legally then people will do it illegally. This means more people will die crossing the border too. And this is the point of the policy.

1. Make if impossible to do something legally.
2. People do it illegally in far greater numbers
3. Fascist politicians say 'look, they're flooding across illegally. It's an invasion. We've got to lock them all up'
4. Tens of thousands of people then get locked up in privately-run concentration camps at $750/day (because this is all insanely profitable for the private prison industry, which has to make you wonder).
5. Deny everything. Your supporters will defend you regardless, and people who don't hate you but dislike even more those who are accusing you will act as an apologist ( <-- you are here, btw).

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/am ... 1/2018/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Imploding Turtle
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:33 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm not defending the USA, just asking why it's fine on here for one country to restrict immigration, drop them off outside of at an island elsewhere for 'processing' etc yet it doesn't really get a mention on here but the USA is battered for it almost daily by IT and others....?
Are you ******* kidding me? You think what we're doing in Calais is the same? You haven't got a ******* clue, have you? How many people are in Calais, and why are they there? Come on. I've answered your question so i expect you to answer mine.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:39 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No one should be allowed to cross the border illegally. That's a retarded question.

And i've already told you why so many people are crossing illegally, and why the US government is responsible for it. Have you forgotten? I'll briefly explain again.

The US are illegally holding people in Mexico to prevent them stepping on US soil where they can then claim asylum and exercise their rights under US law (because they'll be in the US). This means illegal crossings will skyrocket because any idiot will tell you that if you make something impossible to do legally then people will do it illegally. This means more people will die crossing the border too. And this is the point of the policy.

1. Make if impossible to do something legally.
2. People do it illegally in far greater numbers
3. Fascist politicians say 'look, they're flooding across illegally. It's an invasion. We've got to lock them all up'
4. Tens of thousands of people then get locked up in privately-run concentration camps at $750/day (because this is all insanely profitable for the private prison industry, which has to make you wonder).
5. Deny everything. Your supporters will defend you regardless, and people who don't hate you but dislike even more those who are accusing you will act as an apologist ( <-- you are here, btw).

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/am ... 1/2018/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1- how many people should the US allow over the border to live there?
2- shouldn't countries like Mexico be doing more to stop mass migration through their country to the US?
(I think they've considered their own wall on the south border.)
3- what's the issue with stopping them before they reach the US?
That's the whole point of stopping illegal immigrants isn't it?
They used to station border agency officials a reasonable distance inside the US border to collar people, but I'm thinking you don't mind that?

4- in regards to locking people up, what's YOUR solution to the issue?
Where would you put people, what process would you put in place to deal with what appears to be a growing problem, what limit would you put on numbers?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:39 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Are you ******* kidding me? You think what we're doing in Calais is the same? You haven't got a ******* clue, have you? How many people are in Calais, and why are they there? Come on. I've answered your question so i expect you to answer mine.
I haven't mentioned Calais, I've clearly stated Australia, try rereading what I've put and calm down.
I won't answer because Calais isn't relevant.
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Imploding Turtle
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:44 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:1- how many people should the US allow over the border to live there?
2- shouldn't countries like Mexico be doing more to stop mass migration through their country to the US?
(I think they've considered their own wall on the south border.)
3- what's the issue with stopping them before they reach the US?
That's the whole point of stopping illegal immigrants isn't it?
They used to station border agency officials a reasonable distance inside the US border to collar people, but I'm thinking you don't mind that?

4- in regards to locking people up, what's YOUR solution to the issue?
Where would you put people, what process would you put in place to deal with what appears to be a growing problem, what limit would you put on numbers?
:lol:

You get no more answers until you explain to me what the similarities are between what we're doing in Calais and what Trump is doing to migrants.

You asked your question, complained that people weren't answering it, and i answered it. If you expect me to discuss this with you then you have to show that you're willing to explain your own point of view too.


Edit: Just to add, with regards to that last question. If this was the 1930s and i was arguing against concentration camps for Jews and liberals, would you have still asked the question "in regards to locking people up, what's YOUR solution to the issue?"

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote::lol:

You get no more answers until you explain to me what the similarities are between what we're doing in Calais and what Trump is doing to migrants.

You asked your question, complained that people weren't answering it, and i answered it. If you expect me to discuss this with you then you have to show that you're willing to explain your own point of view too.
You started using abuse language towards me over Calais, yet I've never mentioned it, I asked why you don't get upset over Australia when they've been putting people in a camp and restricting migrants for years.

I honestly couldn't give a toss about Calais, we didn't set it up, we haven't put people in there, unless we've retuned some but I don't think we have.

So back to my original point, Australia...

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:50 pm

In regards to what Hitler did, the world was much more naive about that sort of thing, surprisingly because they weren't the first concentration camps ever used, it was the genocide carried out by the Germans that people buried their head in the sand about.

Let us know if the US starts murdering people.
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Elbarad » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:51 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Are you saying that it's their fault they are in these camps?

Was it the fault of the Jews too?
You don't read posts before you reply to them do you? These people can leave anytime they want if they're willing to return home. The Jews and others in German camps could not leave. That's a pretty basic difference, but perhaps too difficult for you to understand.
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:53 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:1- how many people should the US allow over the border to live there?
2- shouldn't countries like Mexico be doing more to stop mass migration through their country to the US?
(I think they've considered their own wall on the south border.)
3- what's the issue with stopping them before they reach the US?
That's the whole point of stopping illegal immigrants isn't it?
They used to station border agency officials a reasonable distance inside the US border to collar people, but I'm thinking you don't mind that?

4- in regards to locking people up, what's YOUR solution to the issue?
Where would you put people, what process would you put in place to deal with what appears to be a growing problem, what limit would you put on numbers?

In fact it's going to bug me if i don't point out how ******* moronic some of these questions are.

1. There shouldn't be a limit on the number of people who enter legally.

2. Yes. No one is saying otherwise.

3. This is the most stupid question of the lot, because it shows that you have completely failed in understanding what's going on even when i've explained it to you in the most simple of terms. What's the issue with the US stopping them before they reach the US? Well, it means they can't ******* enter legally doesn't it? If they arrive at a port of entry then they're trying to enter legally, and the US illegally holds them on Mexican soil then then the US is making it impossible for asylum seekers and refugees to enter illegally.

They're not stopping illegal immigrants. They're stopping legal ones.

4. Roll back everything Trump has done. These concentration camps didn't exist before his presidency because there wasn't a crisis until he created one.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:56 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:In regards to what Hitler did, the world was much more naive about that sort of thing, surprisingly because they weren't the first concentration camps ever used, it was the genocide carried out by the Germans that people buried their head in the sand about.

Let us know if the US starts murdering people.
I think there's plenty of evidence that shows that the world is exactly as naive now as it was back then.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:In fact it's going to bug me if i don't point out how ******* moronic some of these questions are.

1. There shouldn't be a limit on the number of people who enter legally.

2. Yes. No one is saying otherwise.

3. This is the most stupid question of the lot, because it shows that you have completely failed in understanding what's going on even when i've explained it to you in the most simple of terms. What's the issue with the US stopping them before they reach the US? Well, it means they can't ******* enter legally doesn't it? If they arrive at a port of entry then they're trying to enter legally, and the US illegally holds them on Mexican soil then then the US is making it impossible for asylum seekers and refugees to enter illegally.

They're not stopping illegal immigrants. They're stopping legal ones.

4. Roll back everything Trump has done. These concentration camps didn't exist before his presidency because there wasn't a crisis until he created one.
How do you know they're stopping legal immigrants?
If they're legal they'll have all the correct paperwork and be allowed through.
If they don't have it, then they're turned back.
Or is one of us missing something?

You're targeting the US alone when Mexico and others aren't doing enough, but you don't mention them.

Why shouldn't there be a limit on legal migration?
Why are you objecting so much to them stopping illegal migration?

As for the crisis not happening until Trump took office, is that because no previous president decided to take a handle on the situation to stop it, or is it because things in South America have gotten worse?
If things have gotten worse in S.America are you blaming Trump for that?
If he's the only president to try and stem the flow is that his fault or the fault of others, because illegal migration into the US via the southern border has always been an issue.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I think there's plenty of evidence that shows that the world is exactly as naive now as it was back then.
Depends on the agenda you're pushing I suppose.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:09 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:How do you know they're stopping legal immigrants?
If they're legal they'll have all the correct paperwork and be allowed through.
If they don't have it, then they're turned back.
Or is one of us missing something?

...
This is my last attempt before i decide you're being deliberately obtuse.

They. Are. Attempting. To. Enter. Via. A. Port. Of. Entry.
By definition they are attempting to enter legally. There's no ******* Ports of Entry set up for illegal entry. Jesus ******* Christ.

But they're not being allowed to enter legally because the US doesn't want any of them claiming asylum or refugee status. This, by the US, is illegal. And it forces these people to cross illegally (because, presumably if they're risking their lives to even reach the US it's because their lives are in much more danger back home)

Why are you only concerned by the illegality of the entry of migrants and not the illegality of the conduct that means the only way for people to reach the US in order to claim asylum is by crossing illegally?

I'm done trying to educate you on this. I've linked this to you three times now and after the previous two, I have yet to see any evidence in your posts and questions that you have even bothered attempting to read it. If you had then you wouldn't be asking some of these questions.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/am ... 1/2018/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:12 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Depends on the agenda you're pushing I suppose.
No. It doesn't. These are literally concentration camps. Experts on concentration camps agree. Jews who lived in concentration camps agree. Japanese Americans who lived in concentration camps agree. The ******* dictionary agrees. But we still have people in denial about what they really are because they think that surely it can't be happening again in a western country.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:This is my last attempt before i decide you're being deliberately obtuse.

They. Are. Attempting. To. Enter. Via. A. Port. Of. Entry.
By definition they are attempting to enter legally. There's no ******* Ports of Entry set up for illegal entry. Jesus ******* Christ.

But they're not being allowed to enter legally because the US doesn't want any of them claiming asylum or refugee status. This, by the US, is illegal. And it forces these people to cross illegally (because, presumably if they're risking their lives to even reach the US it's because their lives are in much more danger back home)

Why are you only concerned by the illegality of the entry of migrants and not the illegality of the conduct that means the only way for people to reach the US in order to claim asylum is by crossing illegally?

I'm done trying to educate you on this. I've linked this to you three times now and after the previous two, I have yet to see any evidence in your posts and questions that you have even bothered attempting to read it. If you had then you wouldn't be asking some of these questions.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/am ... 1/2018/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll get back to you next week when I can be arsed reading all 74 pages of that link
If you've read all that I'm impressed.

So about Australia doing similar, why isn't that making you upset?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:14 pm

And by the way Sidney, even if this is entirely the fault of the migrants and has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's policies, it still doesn't excuse the concentration camps.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:15 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No. It doesn't. These are literally concentration camps. Experts on concentration camps agree. Jews who lived in concentration camps agree. Japanese Americans who lived in concentration camps agree. The ******* dictionary agrees. But we still have people in denial about what they really are because they think that surely it can't be happening again in a western country.
They are what they are, I've not been to one, so I'll trust what others say.

However the Americans can stop this whenever they choose too, as can the rest of the world.
If we choose not too then we are all equally to blame, including you.

When's your flight?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:16 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And by the way Sidney, even if this is entirely the fault of the migrants and has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's policies, it still doesn't excuse the concentration camps.
It's the fault of both, plus other factors, I've not said it's specifically one side.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:20 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'll get back to you next week when I can be arsed reading all 74 pages of that link
If you've read all that I'm impressed.

So about Australia doing similar, why isn't that making you upset?
Notice how you're always the one asking questions? Never really engaging in the subject? Never showing that you actually understand anything the other is saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding Australia, because I was naive. You know, the thing you think we can't possibly be anymore because of Hitler.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:22 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:They are what they are, I've not been to one, so I'll trust what others say.

However the Americans can stop this whenever they choose too, as can the rest of the world.
If we choose not too then we are all equally to blame, including you.

When's your flight?

Is this a joke?

Or are you serious, like when you blamed people who voted for gun control for the lack of gun control? Everyone's to blame for inaction, even those trying to take action.


"They are what they are, I've not been to one, so I'll trust what others say."

You're not trusting what others say though, are you? You're not trusting me, and then you're not trusting Amnesty International. You're not trusting concentration camp experts. You're not listening to anyone. You're denying. That's all you're doing. Either maliciously or naively, it doesn't really matter. Either way you're contributing to the problem.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:31 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Notice how you're always the one asking questions? Never really engaging in the subject? Never showing that you actually understand anything the other is saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmVkJvieaOA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regarding Australia, because I was naive. You know, the thing you think we can't possibly be anymore because of Hitler.
The amount of time you spend researching stuff online, I'm not having it that you were naive about Australia.
I'm going with it didn't suit your agenda.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Is this a joke?

Or are you serious, like when you blamed people who voted for gun control for the lack of gun control? Everyone's to blame for inaction, even those trying to take action.


"They are what they are, I've not been to one, so I'll trust what others say."

You're not trusting what others say though, are you? You're not trusting me, and then you're not trusting Amnesty International. You're not trusting concentration camp experts. You're not listening to anyone. You're denying. That's all you're doing. Either maliciously or naively, it doesn't really matter. Either way you're contributing to the problem.
I'll read the 74 page PDF when I've more time.
I've seen what people called a concentration camp, I haven't seen the ones in the US.

As for gun control, they don't do enough in the US, those who do and don't vote for/against it.
That's why I'm blasé about more shootings in the US whilst you appear to treat each mass shooting like it's a brand new occurrence.

I'll be the same about stabbings in the UK eventually.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by bfcjg » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:And by the way Sidney, even if this is entirely the fault of the migrants and has absolutely nothing to do with Trump's policies, it still doesn't excuse the concentration camps.
What do they expect ? Butlins ?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:36 pm

bfcjg wrote:What do they expect ? Butlins ?
I'm not sure, probably to be allowed unrestricted access to the US, it's hard to know.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:43 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The amount of time you spend researching stuff online, I'm not having it that you were naive about Australia.
I'm going with it didn't suit your agenda.
You mean the answer i gave you didn't suit your agenda, so you're rejecting it so that you can accuse me of making arguments against concentration camps based purely on agenda?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:45 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm not sure, probably to be allowed unrestricted access to the US, it's hard to know.
I think maybe soap and toothpaste isn't too much to ask for since the people holding them are being paid $750/day/prisoner for doing so. As has been pointed out, even the Taliban gave their prisoners soap and toothpaste.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Leisure » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You mean the answer i gave you didn't suit your agenda, so you're rejecting it so that you can accuse me of making arguments against concentration camps based purely on agenda?
Common, don't tell us that you weren't aware about the policy in Australia! Thought you knew everything!

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Re: "Never again"

Post by bfcjg » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:51 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote: even the Taliban gave their prisoners soap and toothpaste.
They do like a clean corpse though.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:57 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You mean the answer i gave you didn't suit your agenda, so you're rejecting it so that you can accuse me of making arguments against concentration camps based purely on agenda?
There was worldwide condemnation of what Australia was doing, for a while until we moved onto the next outrage, but considering how passionate you usually are about the rights of migrants, illegal or otherwise, I fully expected you to be aware of what went on.

If you weren't, them I'm shocked for once because you're normally all over these things like a tramp on chips

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:02 pm

Leisure wrote:Common, don't tell us that you weren't aware about the policy in Australia! Thought you knew everything!
I was aware, and critical. But also naive. I've also in the past criticised concentration camps in China and Georgia and yet on neither of those occasions did any of you get this defensive about the term being used. Why?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Leisure » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:17 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I was aware, and critical. But also naive. I've also in the past criticised concentration camps in China and Georgia and yet on neither of those occasions did any of you get this defensive about the term being used. Why?
Critical but naive. In what way naive?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:39 am

For those of you who think it's funny, imagine your only crime being that you crossed a border illegally because you weren't being allowed the chance to cross legally, and find yourself locked up in rooms and pens like this for weeks at a time without basic hygiene facilities like a shower, and the only way you can clean yourself is with wet wipes.

There's going to be a prisoner revolt at one of these facilities sooner or later and people are going to be killed. What do you think is going to happen then? Do you think Trump's going to back down on this cruelty, or is he going to use such a revolt as an excuse for even more brutal prisons? Convince me that's not something he wants, because he seems to be going for maximum outrage. Why do I think that? How else to explain his most recent idea of ending deportation protections for the spouses of active duty military personnel? This is all intentional.

These images are from the second report from the Homland Security Department in about 5 weeks on this issue, this one is at a different facility to the first one which was in El Paso, Texas. Link to both at the bottom.

Image
Image
Image

Management Alert - DHS Needs to Address Dangerous Overcrowding Among Single Adults at El Paso Del Norte Processing Center
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f ... -May19.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Management Alert – DHS Needs to Address Dangerous Overcrowding and Prolonged Detention of Children and Adults in the Rio Grande Valley
https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/f ... -jul19.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Never again"

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:28 am

The usual crew of terrified, right wing nut-jobs on here now know better than the management of the American DHS, do they ?
Fabulous.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Erasmus » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:16 am

At the forefront of this debate should be the constant realisation that the overwhelming majority of these migrants are decent, honest people desperately trying to make something approaching a decent life for themselves. I can say this from personal experience having lived in California and played in a team made up entirely of Latin American migrants.

The global problem of migration is one that defies easy solutions of any kind, but the least we can do is show compassion for the suffering of migrants. Unlimited migration is unfeasible but we could at least have some sympathy for their plight and not treat them in such a cruel manner; we often speak of 'our civilised values' and this situation is one in which we need to display those values.
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Re: "Never again"

Post by LoveCurryPies » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:58 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:The usual crew of terrified, right wing nut-jobs on here now know better than the management of the American DHS, do they ?
Fabulous.
Does it look like its working properly to you?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:55 am

I spent a fair bit of time travelling through Mexico, Guatemala, and other Central American countries around the time the civil wars were concluding (Guatemala and El Salvador). Their problems are bigger than they are as countries. As conduits for illegal drugs into the United States, the smaller countries are dwarfed by it, and unable to cope. Even countries like Belize and Costa Rica that have developed tourist industries, are major transit routes, with Costa Rica seeing a lot more violence as a result. Nicaragua and Belize have largely escaped the increase in violence because smugglers use the more sparsely populated east coast for Nicaragua, and central areas of Belize - but the huge amount of money up for grabs suggests it's only a matter of time before these routes also become battlegrounds. Drug profits are recycled through local economies as bribes, and kickbacks - corrupting law enforcement and government officials. It's a losing battle while such a huge market as the United States has exists in the black market.

The US has intervened in many of these countries quite extensively to protect their own commercial interests. They've sponsored military strongmen like Somoza in Nicaragua, an oligarchy in El Salvador, and worked to keep the indigenous as serfs in Guatemala - the CIA organising a coup against their democratically elected leader in the 40s because he began some limited land reforms. You can see from a government point of view the people in these countries have stood little chance.

So I don't begrudge people from Honduras or El Salvador, or Guatemala for seeking a better life elsewhere, because for most ordinary people there is nothing they can do to improve things at home. And whereas I won't say everything is the fault of the US, they still bear a great deal of responsibility, directly and indirectly, for the state of the area now. When the Nicaraguan people overthrew the Somoza regime, it took only two years before the US was actively working against the new Sandinista government (a project which thankfully failed). If the US put the same resources into building these countries up as they have breaking them down, then there wouldn't be so many wanting to escape.

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:19 am

Tell me, deniers, are we not believing doctors now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... en/593224/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:06 am

Image

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Re: "Never again"

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:12 am

It was at that point turtle realised trump had taken over his life

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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:16 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:It was at that point turtle realised trump had taken over his life
I think you guys need to get a new criticism, because this one isn't preventing me from talking. Try something else.

I suggest trying to actually debate the points I present. Maybe you'll get somewhere that way. Or maybe you don't think you can, is that why you don't? I think that's it, isn't it?

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Re: "Never again"

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:36 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I think you guys need to get a new criticism, because this one isn't preventing me from talking. Try something else.

I suggest trying to actually debate the points I present. Maybe you'll get somewhere that way. Or maybe you don't think you can, is that why you don't? I think that's it, isn't it?

Nope you are wrong you little obsessive. I am quite happy when you post all through the earlier hours instead of sleeping just so you can talk about trump. Let’s be honest nothing will stop you hammering your keyboard even when banned you feel the need to have go to accounts so you can continue with your obsession. The reason why I don’t debate the points is I couldn’t really care what he says or does not do I scour the news for the latest story on him or follow his twitter account. I am just not arsed waiting on his every word. I would just rather get on with my own life and enjoy it.

I just don’t get what it is you hope to achieve by talking about someone 24 hours a day you have no influence over anything he does nor do I get what your actual aim is on an English football clubs forum what will happen to trump if you talk about him and virtually nothing else
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Re: "Never again"

Post by Imploding Turtle » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:00 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Nope you are wrong you little obsessive. I am quite happy when you post all through the earlier hours instead of sleeping just so you can talk about trump. Let’s be honest nothing will stop you hammering your keyboard even when banned you feel the need to have go to accounts so you can continue with your obsession. The reason why I don’t debate the points is I couldn’t really care what he says or does not do I scour the news for the latest story on him or follow his twitter account. I am just not arsed waiting on his every word. I would just rather get on with my own life and enjoy it.

I just don’t get what it is you hope to achieve by talking about someone 24 hours a day you have no influence over anything he does nor do I get what your actual aim is on an English football clubs forum what will happen to trump if you talk about him and virtually nothing else
Translation: "I'm obsessed with mocking you over your obsession"
:lol:

I imagine you'd be the exact same in the 1930s, telling people they shouldn't talk about the threat posed by certain foreign leaders.
Why do you feel the need to be so obsessed with telling other people what they should and shouldn't talk about anyway? That's a bit weird. Although it's pretty typical of conservatives to be telling others what to do. It's like you just can't help yourself. You seem to feel this deep need to tell other people that they shouldn't care about certain things. And it's quite telling that it always seems to be that we shouldn't care about things that people on the "right" are doing. You're essentially providing covering fire for the Nazis when you tell their enemies that we shouldn't be talking about them, which in turn makes the enemies of Nazis think that you're with them, and not us.
You understand that, right?
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