Tour de France 2019

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:52 pm

With the news out today that Cav has been dropped by team DD, thought I'd start the 2019 Tour thread. With the Froome out and Thomas recovring from a crash (and announced as joint leader of Ineos), we could be relying on the new blood coming through (Yates) for Brit success.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:58 pm

Even without Froome, and coming back from a crash, I still expect Ineos to boss things and protect GT. They have 2 GC options, and I can't for a minute see anything other than both riders in the top 3 with a week to go unless race conditons go against them.

burnley007 · Post by **burnley007** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:04 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:Even without Froome, and coming back from a crash, I still expect Ineos to boss things and protect GT. They have 2 GC options, and I can't for a minute see anything other than both riders in the top 3 with a week to go unless race conditons go against them.

I can see there being a few crashes in the 1st week, then we'll see who's still in with a shot.
I fancy the Yates boys to look after each other and do pretty well, hopefully!

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:37 pm

Certainly an opportunity to have two Brits on the podium again - but I don't think we are quite ready for a 4th British champion in 9 years (just what has the rest of the world been up to) - There is a good chance of a first Columbian champion ever though and his name is not Nairo Quintana, especially with all those high mountains and only one solo TT stuck in the 2nd week, Expect Astana to be strong too

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:12 pm

burnley007 wrote:I can see there being a few crashes in the 1st week, then we'll see who's still in with a shot.
I fancy the Yates boys to look after each other and do pretty well, hopefully!

Full British podium??

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:30 pm

Mitchelton Scott never fully commit to the GC and chase stage wins which will always work against Yates. They look to have picked a team with that intention again this year.

Although Ineos’ team doesn’t look a patch on the years they had Thomas, Landa, Nieve and Pouels supporting Froome in the mountains.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:34 pm

The Yates brothers have never really pushed on since the first year - and there interviews are still littered with about 30 "yeah's" a minute

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:45 pm

I do find Australian accents on two lads from Bury very annoying.

Danieljwaterhouse · Post by **Danieljwaterhouse** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:28 pm

So I’m going Bernal, Yates, Pinot for my top three....

Alaphilipe for Polka
Bernal for Young
Sagan for Green

Stage one: Growengan
Stage two: Dennis

And we will go from there

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:13 pm

Can’t wait. Still think ‘G’ will do strong. Big Tour for Yates.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:07 am

Sagan has had a poor year - big ask to do it all again for 7th time (I think)

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:21 am

I reckon it’s the most open tour for a while with no Froome and doubts over Thomas.

Bernal is a class act and future tour winner. Fulgsang will do well in a strong Astana team. Bardet didn’t have a great Dauphine and his TT will always cost him time. Can’t find the Jumbo team so not sure if Roglic is riding but it will be interesting to see how he does after cracking at the Giro. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Landa finish above Quintana.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:49 pm

So Bernal would be the favourite for me.

I'm also wondering if Alaphilippe is worth an outside chance after his efforts last year in KotM. Cheeky chance at the GC if it falls his way?

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:02 pm

Alaphillipe has said himself that he isn’t ready to ride for GC yet and will be chasing stage wins and the KOM.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:39 am

I don't think we can really believe everything that comes out of a sportmans mouth. He's going to be shutdown on every breakaway that he attempts to join in this years tour, so a GC push might actually be an easier prospect.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:42 pm

Fair point about playing a game of bluff but his racing this season doesn’t suggest he’s preparing for GC in a grand tour.

If he can’t get in the breaks, he may switch his focus to GC but couldn’t see him targeting anything better than top 10.

Overall though I think it’s going to be a good race this year.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:44 pm

Nibali has said the same, but I can’t see he and his team turning down the chance to go for a Yellow given that it’s so open now

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:11 pm

Chester Perry wrote:The Yates brothers have never really pushed on since the first year - and there interviews are still littered with about 30 "yeah's" a minute

You mean other than one of them being close to winning the Giro last year?

Chester Perry wrote:Sagan has had a poor year - big ask to do it all again for 7th time (I think)

Basically let his brother win the nationals which, to me at least, says he fancies himself to win the world's in Yorkshire so I'd say he'll be in better form than the season to date for the Tour.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:29 pm

deanothedino wrote:You mean other than one of them being close to winning the Giro last year?

was he really, put on a good show, but one good day from Froome, who started the Giro not racing fit, blew him out of the water, Grand Tours are 3 weeks and neither of the brothers have shown they can be competitive enough everyday over that time to win a Grand Tour. That maybe a team support problem but still stands,

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:31 pm

deanothedino wrote:Basically let his brother win the nationals which, to me at least, says he fancies himself to win the world's in Yorkshire so I'd say he'll be in better form than the season to date for the Tour.

fair enough - suspect the World's is the bigger target in his eyes though - and Yorkshire is certainly a terrain he can use to his advantage - so may not push as hard in the Tour

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:34 pm

Chester Perry wrote:was he really, put on a good show, but one good day from Froome, who started the Giro not racing fit, blew him out of the water, Grand Tours are 3 weeks and neither of the brothers have shown they can be competitive enough everyday over that time to win a Grand Tour. That maybe a team support problem but still stands,

He was competitive for 18 stages but it's clearly he was still tactically naive. Froome developed through the race as Sky hoped, he's always going to be a better rider tactically than someone much younger and much less experienced. His win on stage 19 is probably one of the greatest team rides of all time.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:36 pm

Chester Perry wrote:fair enough - suspect the World's is the bigger target in his eyes though - and Yorkshire is certainly a terrain he can use to his advantage - so may not push as hard in the Tour

It absolutely is. I think he only won his nationals last year instead of his brother because he knew last year's World's course wasn't for him and he wanted a jersey.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:58 pm

Chester Perry wrote:was he really, put on a good show, but one good day from Froome, who started the Giro not racing fit, blew him out of the water, Grand Tours are 3 weeks and neither of the brothers have shown they can be competitive enough everyday over that time to win a Grand Tour. That maybe a team support problem but still stands,

Simon Yates won the Vuelta last year.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:00 pm

TheFamilyCat wrote:Simon Yates won the Vuelta last year.

point well made and taken, but like Nibali's tour win "against who", Yates brothers looked like being the best of the best when they broke through, not now though they are 2nd tier much like Nibali himself (who has all three tours in his palmaries) when the big boys are racing in form and are serious they cannot compete

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:32 pm

Chester Perry wrote:was he really, put on a good show, but one good day from Froome, who started the Giro not racing fit, blew him out of the water, Grand Tours are 3 weeks and neither of the brothers have shown they can be competitive enough everyday over that time to win a Grand Tour. That maybe a team support problem but still stands,

That was down to Sky's genius. They burnt all the other teams off early doors leaving 4 GC contenders and when Froome went none of them were willing to chase him down and blow themselves up. As pink jersey wearer the onus was on Yates but making decisions like that on the bike is difficult at any time. No blame attached for me and he was very impressive before that day. Not done enough for me this year though.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:37 pm

Cant see the Yates doing well, Thomas is our best hope by a long shot, depends which of his team member gets the shout if he doesn't, he should be pretty fresh though, he hasn't done a lot of racing this year so hopefully he will be team leader.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:43 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:That was down to Sky's genius. They burnt all the other teams off early doors leaving 4 GC contenders and when Froome went none of them were willing to chase him down and blow themselves up. As pink jersey wearer the onus was on Yates but making decisions like that on the bike is difficult at any time. No blame attached for me and he was very impressive before that day. Not done enough for me this year though.

Yates started to struggle before that stage and hiS lead was being reduced.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:56 am

I'll throw the route on here for reference.

https://www.letour.fr/en/overall-route" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Chester Perry wrote:point well made and taken, but like Nibali's tour win "against who", Yates brothers looked like being the best of the best when they broke through, not now though they are 2nd tier much like Nibali himself (who has all three tours in his palmaries) when the big boys are racing in form and are serious they cannot compete

Nibali 2nd tier?! One of seven to win all three GTs and winner of three monuments

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:01 pm

read the last 14 words

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:32 pm

Chester Perry wrote:read the last 14 words

I agree with most you write on cycling so i hope you are refering to Nibali now?
He has been a class act at his best and certainly not second tier then.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:57 pm

I am not denying Nibali is very good - his record is as has been pointed out is also very good - but for me the top tier is a level above- they control the peloton for years in the Grand tours just by their presence, everyone is watching and fearing what they might do. Even when not on top form they find something special to reinforce that on occasion (Froome at the Giro, Hinault with LeMond on Alp d'heuz in 86). These are few: Anquetil, Mercx, Hinault, Indurain and possibly Froome (Armstrong had the same power though we all know why his record has been expunged). Nibali is with Fignon, Contador and LeMond who with a couple of others are above the rest including Wiggins and Simon Yates

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:48 pm

Chester Perry wrote:I am not denying Nibali is very good - his record is as has been pointed out is also very good - but for me the top tier is a level above- they control the peloton for years in the Grand tours just by their presence, everyone is watching and fearing what they might do. Even when not on top form they find something special to reinforce that on occasion (Froome at the Giro, Hinault with LeMond on Alp d'heuz in 86). These are few: Anquetil, Mercx, Hinault, Indurain and possibly Froome (Armstrong had the same power though we all know why his record has been expunged). Nibali is with Fignon, Contador and LeMond who with a couple of others are above the rest including Wiggins and Simon Yates

I’d agree he’s not at the level of the GOAT contenders, with multiple grand tours, that you list but he has never had a great team around him to control the race either.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:01 am

And we’re off!

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:15 am

Sort of

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:40 pm

Chester Perry wrote:I am not denying Nibali is very good - his record is as has been pointed out is also very good - but for me the top tier is a level above- they control the peloton for years in the Grand tours just by their presence, everyone is watching and fearing what they might do. Even when not on top form they find something special to reinforce that on occasion (Froome at the Giro, Hinault with LeMond on Alp d'heuz in 86). These are few: Anquetil, Mercx, Hinault, Indurain and possibly Froome (Armstrong had the same power though we all know why his record has been expunged). Nibali is with Fignon, Contador and LeMond who with a couple of others are above the rest including Wiggins and Simon Yates

Contador in the 2nd tier? Not for me, Contador is a far better GC rider than Froome who wouldn't have achieved half of what he has with any other team.

Also, you can't list half of those names and then say Armstrong doesn't count. Most of them were doped to the gills.

Sagan looks like proving the doubters wrong based on today.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:26 pm

It is all subjective. The ones I named including Armstrong were at the top for more than 5 years, Contador wasn't the same after his ban so I haven't but him at the top table - which by it's very nature is a small group.

Froome is not at the top table yet, and his current injuries may mean he never is, but he has held the peloton in fear since the Vuelta 2011, he was the strongest rider in the Tour of 2012, but the politics meant that Wiggins had to be the first British winner not Froome. He could still get that if Parliament get their way over the Jiffy bag.

As for teams, all the greats of recent times have ensured that they have the strongest teams, that is what gives them the platform, It is arguable that is an inherent weakness in the nearly men the best find a way to make those teams happen. Sky/Ineos have just used that to their advantage and still may not be as strong to the rest of the peloton relatively speaking as US Postal was

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:01 am

Chester Perry wrote:Froome is not at the top table yet, and his current injuries may mean he never is, but he has held the peloton in fear since the Vuelta 2011, he was the strongest rider in the Tour of 2012, but the politics meant that Wiggins had to be the first British winner not Froome.

Of course he is. 4 TdF, 1 Vuelta, 1 Giro and as you so rightly say he would have had another TdF and Vuelta if not for Sky's Wiggo love in. Great climber, TT rider and tactician.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:24 pm

Ineos success today. Geraint in pole position now.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:42 pm

Alaphilippe going for it off the top of the last climb today. Could be a good finish with 15Km racing to go.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:10 pm

Alaphilippe is frigging awesome. It was never in doubt once he went. Best rider in the world for me at the moment.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:47 pm

Yellow Jersey lead out today.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:01 pm

What a great finish that was. Well done Thomas, showed a few of the doubters what’s what.

moaninclaret · Post by **moaninclaret** » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:53 pm

Thomas laid down a statement today, what a gruelling finish to a stage, i think that would have taken more out of Alaphillipe than Thomas, make no mistake this lad wont give up his number one jersey and i hope to see him on the top step in Paris, i just hope all his team are strong enough to help him. Good luck Geraint.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:14 pm

What a race that was today. de Gent showing what a great rider he is. Alaphilippe, GC? He’s back in yellow. G escapes after a nasty looking crash.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:03 pm

claret wizard wrote:What a race that was today. de Gent showing what a great rider he is. Alaphilippe, GC? He’s back in yellow. G escapes after a nasty looking crash.

Nasty crash, with the bike split in two but I don’t think G. hit the deck. The Alps and Pyrennees will sort out the two Frenchmen.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:00 pm

I’ve been disappointed in the Tour, this year, but what a stage today. No spoilers and they are still racing but worth the watch tonight.

edison · Post by **edison** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:06 pm

There have been some excellent stages, and a few `meh' ones. I've, overall enjoyed the first week

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:56 pm

I think it’s been a brilliant first week.

Allaphillipes and De Gendts wins being the highlights but Stage Six up La Planche des Belle Filles was great too (as was today’s)

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:09 pm

Been some great stages this week. I think the De Gendts win being the best. Not even got to the mountains yet!!

I did go and watch a stage a few years ago. Well, watched the riders zoom by in the South of France on a hill just outside Castellane. Anyone else done a stage (not in the UK).