England v USA

[South West Claret.]

England second best all over the pitch with the yanks letting us off the hook, I thought 2-0 at the start so at least we did score one goal.

[Tall Paul]

The rules changed a year ago. Not a red card anymore.

Only if the defender makes an attempt to play the ball. I'm not sure she did in this case.

[bobinho]

The rules changed a year ago. Not a red card anymore.

You mean I’ve been screaming my napper off at refs all this time, and I was wrong?

Not done that before...

[MACCA]

In my opinion, the better ( looking) team won

[Wile E Coyote]

england were naive and not sharp enough when it mattered, at least the usa team had the right idea of sticking it in the corners to run the clock down.
Good effort overall though to reach semi final, so well done to them.

[timshorts]

Ga nederland.

Ga van der donk.

Yes, OK, she plays for arsenal, but she's got better ball control than anyone on that pitch today.

[dsr]

Only if the defender makes an attempt to play the ball. I'm not sure she did in this case.

The defender wasn't making an attempt to do anything except get to the ball. The two players touched feet, both players were tripped by the collision. and it was deemed that the collision was accidental and was the defender's fault.

The red card is for when the defender is fouling with the intention of fouling; yellow is for when the foul would have been a red card offence if it hadn't been for the two facts: that it resulted in a penalty, and that the defender wasn't intending to foul.

[Middle-agedClaret]

Clear and helpful from dsr there.
Personally, in real time, I thought it was definitely not a penalty.
I also thought that Jonathan Pearce was beyond crap. What’s that saying about an empty vessel making most noise?
The better team won - IMHO.

[Tall Paul]

The defender wasn't making an attempt to do anything except get to the ball. The two players touched feet, both players were tripped by the collision. and it was deemed that the collision was accidental and was the defender's fault.

The red card is for when the defender is fouling with the intention of fouling; yellow is for when the foul would have been a red card offence if it hadn't been for the two facts: that it resulted in a penalty, and that the defender wasn't intending to foul.

Nope.

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-gov ... misconduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ashingtonclaret46]

A USA team managed by an English lady and whose Sports Scientist also is English and both think that, because of the prevalent attitude to Womens' football in the UK, they would have been nowhere near the position that they are now in.

For all those whinging about the commentary and the comments ---did you not know that there is a volume control on all TVs and monitors and it is a really simple procedure to use it, in fact, they have a 'Mute' button which makes it even easier to watch in comfort.

[CoolClaret]

Don't shoot the messenger...

[dsr]

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-gov ... misconduct

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

All the examples given before "etc." are for deliberate actions by the player. In cases like this one, where there is no malicious intent, the ref will usually if not always put the offence in the category of "attempt to play the ball" rather than "deliberate foul" because the law isn't clear.

Actually, I don't see why it should be a foul by the defender anyway. Both players tried to put their feet in the same place, and both players fell over.
Who decides who has priority over that bit of grass?

[IanMcL]

Soon be proper football....the Championship kick off

[FCBurnley]

Dreadful decision by somebody ( Neville ?) to give the penalty taking responsibility to our center half ( who looked utterly terrified ). Why oh why would one of the best finishers in Womans football be stood watching ? Bit like Spurs not using Kane !!! If England score the pen they win.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

All the examples given before "etc." are for deliberate actions by the player. In cases like this one, where there is no malicious intent, the ref will usually if not always put the offence in the category of "attempt to play the ball" rather than "deliberate foul" because the law isn't clear.

Actually, I don't see why it should be a foul by the defender anyway. Both players tried to put their feet in the same place, and both players fell over.
Who decides who has priority over that bit of grass?

dsr --VAR decides --rubbish isn't it. Unfortunately, that is the way that the game is going and every contact will be a foul one way or another.
I honestly think that the officials would not have given anything in this case and I also believe that the England goal would have stood.
I really don't think that VAR is doing anything to help the onfield officials, in fact, I think that is is undermining their authority.

[Claretmatt4]

All the examples given before "etc." are for deliberate actions by the player. In cases like this one, where there is no malicious intent, the ref will usually if not always put the offence in the category of "attempt to play the ball" rather than "deliberate foul" because the law isn't clear.

Actually, I don't see why it should be a foul by the defender anyway. Both players tried to put their feet in the same place, and both players fell over.
Who decides who has priority over that bit of grass?

Attacker was in front of goal, defender was behind attacker. Attacker shoots and defender accidentally collides with shooting leg, meaning she fails to strike the ball.

Weather she meant it or not and it was an attempt to play the ball she stopped England having a clear shot on goal. Can't understand how anyone can think it was a penalty. Just like if you trip someone in the middle of the pitch, doesn't matter if you mean to do it.

The comment about the red card was tongue in cheek by the way...

[dsr]

dsr --VAR decides --rubbish isn't it. Unfortunately, that is the way that the game is going and every contact will be a foul one way or another.
I honestly think that the officials would not have given anything in this case and I also believe that the England goal would have stood.
I really don't think that VAR is doing anything to help the onfield officials, in fact, I think that is is undermining their authority.

There's certainly no doubt that before VAR, that goal would have stood because the players were level, and all the pundits would have said the goal should stand because the players were level. They changed the rule years back to make "level" count as onside; before that "level" was offside. Now, if they want to specify in the laws that there is no longer any such thing as "level" for VAR, and that the laws for VAR games are different from ordinary games, then they should do so. But if they don't want to do so, then the players were still level under the existing law and the goal should have stood.

Ironically, the reason for the change re. "level" was to give forwards a better chance and th encourage goals. It seems that now they have VAR, they are going to use it to gleefully go back to the old rules and give the forwards less chance and to disallow more goals. Though presumably they will use the contact rule to give a lot more penalties to make up for it.

And as for a five minute delay to establish a "clear and obvious error" !!! There are some idiots running the game. They should have looked at both incidents twice, said "looks OK to me", and got on with it.

I don't know how long the offside took, but there was 4 minutes 56 seconds between the foul and the penalty. 7 minutes total injury time - she wasn't adding much on for subs or injuries.

[dsr]

Attacker was in front of goal, defender was behind attacker. Attacker shoots and defender accidentally collides with shooting leg, meaning she fails to strike the ball.

Weather she meant it or not and it was an attempt to play the ball she stopped England having a clear shot on goal. Can't understand how anyone can think it was a penalty. Just like if you trip someone in the middle of the pitch, doesn't matter if you mean to do it.

The comment about the red card was tongue in cheek by the way...

Attacker shoots and defender accidentally collides with shooting leg. Or alternatively, defender runs towards the ball and attacker accidentally collides with standing leg. Why is the accidental clash of legs deemed to be the fault of the defender? There's too much of this "two players touched, one fell over, it's a foul by the other". If A touching B is a foul, then B touching A is a foul.

(I think you have missed out a "not" a penalty.)

[Ashingtonclaret46]

dsr --I agree wholeheartedly with what you say, however, those running the game and the modern fan want everything to be 100% ---why? --I don't know.
All I will say is that, in their quest for perfection ---or is it political correctness? ---- they are ruining what was once a beautiful game, however, they and the media will be more than happy.

[tiger76]

A lot of work to do on passing and movement but an entertaining and pretty successful campaign. They'll win the Euros.

Euro's are a great opportunity to finally lift silverware,Dutch,Germans and the French will be England's biggest threat,but home advantage is huge.

What's annoying is i didn't think the Yanks were that special tonight(particularly 2nd half) and had England been more clinical with their finishing a final beckoned.

Baffled by a centre-back taking the penalty,if Ellen White didn't want the responsibility,Lucy Bronze is arguably England's best striker of a ball.

That miss and the marginal VAR call was all that separated the sides,another one that got away.

[Sausage]

Lot of respect from me for dsr on this thread. Absolutely nailed it. If an error is clear and obvious then it should take less than 30 seconds to establish. Five mins is a joke.

[TheFamilyCat]

I think the pundits really let themselves down after the game. The game is fighting to gain respect and for the players to be respected as equals and professionals but when one misses a penalty they started with the “she was so brave to step up”.

It really came across as defending her because she’s just a poor, poor woman trying so hard.

[Falcon]

I have to say I don't agree with that.

There's been tons of times where a male footballer has had the same said about him.

[Steve1956]

Dreadful decision by somebody ( Neville ?) to give the penalty taking responsibility to our center half ( who looked utterly terrified ). Why oh why would one of the best finishers in Womans football be stood watching ? Bit like Spurs not using Kane !!! If England score the pen they win.

Neville was being advised how to manage an England side by Roy Hodgson,didn't he have Harry Kane taking corners at one tournament .....soon as we got the penalty(dodgy) we were going to miss it,it's the English way.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Men against boys

[DustyBawls]

Lot of respect from me for dsr on this thread.

Were you a bit pished last night or was something in the sausages?

[aggi]

I think the pundits really let themselves down after the game. The game is fighting to gain respect and for the players to be respected as equals and professionals but when one misses a penalty they started with the “she was so brave to step up”.

It really came across as defending her because she’s just a poor, poor woman trying so hard.

That's pretty much the default from ex-pros, whether they are talking about men or women.

[Spijed]

Baffled by a centre-back taking the penalty

Defenders often make good penalty takers.

Graham Alexander!

[TheFamilyCat]

That's pretty much the default from ex-pros, whether they are talking about men or women.

Maybe in a shoot-out that has gone to sudden death and somebody has had to step up but I don’t agree when it is a penalty in normal time.

[tiger76]

Defenders often make good penalty takers.

Graham Alexander!

True but they are regular penalty takers,just found it strange with the amount of experience and technical skill England had available,that the CB stepped up,i know she's the skipper,but that penalty completely lacked conviction.

[wilks_bfc]

True but they are regular penalty takers,just found it strange with the amount of experience and technical skill England had available,that the CB stepped up,i know she's the skipper,but that penalty completely lacked conviction.

Can't remember who it was now, but I recall a forward player commenting that the reason some strikers don't take penalties is because they aren't use to shooting with a "dead ball"

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Can't remember who it was now, but I recall a forward player commenting that the reason some strikers don't take penalties is because they aren't use to shooting with a "dead ball"

Could well be true.
It had obviously been discussed after Nikita Parris had missed two penalties in thre preceding rounds. They had obviously decided that Steph Houghton would step up and do the job, unfortunately, she scuffed it and the rest is history.

[dsr]

Can't remember who it was now, but I recall a forward player commenting that the reason some strikers don't take penalties is because they aren't use to shooting with a "dead ball"

Which is why goalkeepers (if they can keep the ball down) should be very good at them. They're used to kicking a dead ball very hard. (Burnley keepers especially! )

[Dyched]

Can't remember who it was now, but I recall a forward player commenting that the reason some strikers don't take penalties is because they aren't use to shooting with a "dead ball"

Defenders aren’t use to shooting at all

[Imploding Turtle]

Apparently English football fans, snowflakes that they are, got upset over a USA player celebration.

[Tribesmen]

Apparently English football fans, snowflakes that they are, got upset over a USA player celebration.

Hummmm bunch of pussies those Lionesses

[Darnhill Claret]

The girl obviously knocks them in for fun in training. Don’t suppose ‘nerves’ had anything to do with scuffing the shot. Only seen the slowmo once, in a pub, but it seemed to bounce at least once taking all the speed off it.

[tiger76]

Apparently English football fans, snowflakes that they are, got upset over a USA player celebration.

I found it amusing and an original celebration,about time some humour was introduced into the game.

And we English are famed tea drinkers after all.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I’ve heard England had a Concentration Camp celebration lined up in retaliation had we equalised.

[AlargeClaret]

It must be remembered though that most Americans still think “ f*** your queen” is some sort of knife through the heart insult . They still see the brits as red buses/red phone box/black cab tea drinkers who speak either the queens English or mockney cockney.