Villa in early again

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:35 pm

It will all be Wan-Bissaka or Maguire's fault this summer for distorting the market.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:00 pm

The sad thing is, you get the impression that some on here would like the players at clubs such as Villa to do well.

As a supporter of BFC I want nothing but failure for any player of a rival club!

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:What have they been doing? I would imagine they’ve scouted a lot of players, formulated plans as to who we would want to bring in. But the chairman has said it and the manager has said it, this window will be as difficult as previous windows and it is going to be later rather than sooner. That’s how we do things and nothing will change generally.

"As difficult as previous windows" - at what date did they actually get this excuse in this year

'We formulated plans as to whom we wanted to bring in" - the season finished in May so we were looking at players from Jan (or maybe before) till the end of the season but still can't get any deal over the line

"That's how we do things" - which means we end up with the likes of Wells, Vydra, Walters and Crouch

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:54 pm

jojomk1 wrote:"As difficult as previous windows" - at what date did they actually get this excuse in this year

'We formulated plans as to whom we wanted to bring in" - the season finished in May so we were looking at players from Jan (or maybe before) till the end of the season but still can't get any deal over the line

"That's how we do things" - which means we end up with the likes of Wells, Vydra, Walters and Crouch

That is clearly an attempt, and a poor one, to criticise the club for any excuse whatsoever. Why didn't you say "we end up with the likes of Heaton, Pope, Mee, Tarkowski, Taylor, Westwood, Barnes, Wood, Gudmondsson ..." - because it doesn't suit your agenda. Those are signings which have gone well, and you don't want to accept that things have gone well - you want to do the club down for any reason at all.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:56 pm

I've just started supporting Burnley FC in the last 24 hours.

I think that I'll go on Up The Clarets and post my know nothing nonsense.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Maybe not Sheff U given all the problems there but that will change one way or the other soon.

So it's time we accepted some outside investment - but the offers keep getting knocked back --- why ??????

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:02 pm

jojomk1 wrote:"That's how we do things" - which means we end up with the likes of Wells, Vydra, Walters and Crouch

So how did we end up with players like JBG, Pope & Taylor?

Name a club that hasn't wasted a few quid on players? You can't.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:03 pm

dsr wrote:That is clearly an attempt, and a poor one, to criticise the club for any excuse whatsoever. Why didn't you say "we end up with the likes of Heaton, Pope, Mee, Tarkowski, Taylor, Westwood, Barnes, Wood, Gudmondsson ..." - because it doesn't suit your agenda. Those are signings which have gone well, and you don't want to accept that things have gone well - you want to do the club down for any reason at all.

Those players don't count in the eyes of some.

BFC88 · Post by **BFC88** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:18 pm

Its all well and good saying Burnley are the poorest in the league blah blah but we've literally spent nothing these past few years and have no interest in looking abroad where the best value lies. We need to show a bit of ambition, the board surely realise how lucky we were to stay up last season with what was mainly a championship squad on paper. Eventually we will pay the price. We need at least 2 CM's who can walk straight into the team as thats our weakest area, plus a striker with a bit of pace that allows us to be a bit less predictable - Che Adams would have fit the bill nicely. Also need a LB/RB to compete with Taylor/Lowton.

That should do as long as we keep Mcneil as he is our only ounce of creativity or excitement along with JBG and Defour if he ever plays again.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 pm

BOYSIE31 wrote:So it's time we accepted some outside investment - but the offers keep getting knocked back --- why ??????

What offers ?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:27 am

BFC88 wrote:Its all well and good saying Burnley are the poorest in the league blah blah but we've literally spent nothing these past few years and have no interest in looking abroad where the best value lies. We need to show a bit of ambition, the board surely realise how lucky we were to stay up last season with what was mainly a championship squad on paper. Eventually we will pay the price. We need at least 2 CM's who can walk straight into the team as thats our weakest area, plus a striker with a bit of pace that allows us to be a bit less predictable - Che Adams would have fit the bill nicely. Also need a LB/RB to compete with Taylor/Lowton.

That should do as long as we keep Mcneil as he is our only ounce of creativity or excitement along with JBG and Defour if he ever plays again.

You have to be on a wind up by saying it's mainly a championship squad...

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:04 am

BFC88, call yourself a proper fan? Any proper fan knows it’s ‘blah blah blah’ not your feeble attempt of ‘blah blah’. You also seem to have airbrushed Phil Bardsley completely out of the picture. Not to mention your final sentence. Oops, think I just mentioned it. Did I?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:14 am

Spijed wrote:So how did we end up with players like JBG, Pope & Taylor?

Didn’t we sign those three early in the transfer windows?

Darnhill Claret · Post by **Darnhill Claret** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:18 am

So if that is the case, how come critics are saying we always leave it to the last minute. You can only do early business with a player and agent who want to do early business. The majority seem to leave it late to see what other options might develop.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:50 am

ClaretTony wrote:Our chairman doesn’t see it that way though. He’s found what he thinks is the right way to do things and will continue to do it that way.

I'm all for sensible expectations and realism. But since when has the fact that the chairman or manager thinks a particular approach is the right way to do things meant that all questioning of the approach is invalid?

Was it beyond question when Eddie Howe decided that appointing Jason Blake was the right way to promote youth development?

Garlick has been a fine chairman for the club and we've grown hugely on his stewardship. But if this is a deliberate strategy, I'm not sure the evidence of the last three windows suggests that it's guaranteed to be successful. You're quite right to say we should enjoy the fact we're able to look forward to our fourth successive season at this level, but there's legitimate frustration about how limited we've become in the transfer market and there's not a lot to cheer in the idea that we're weeks away from making signings once more in this window.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:55 am

I honestly can't see that there is another way of doing things, especially when our present way of doing things has been so unbelievably successful. What Burnley has achieved over the past decade is unmatched by any other team of our status without huge backing from wealthy owners. In the Premier League we are always going to be the underdog, unable to compete on equal terms. It's just the way it is and there's no 'other way' that will change that.

I just love the fact that despite all the odds stacked against us we have managed to put a spoke in the wheels of the multinational conglomerate teams from time to time. Pochettino going mad at the referee and Chelsea's rage at our 'anti-football' were so delightful. Of course we will get relegated sooner or later, that's the way money machine goes, but what we have achieved has been just wonderful. Who wouldn't be a happy clapper at such a time?

s6t9a2f3f · Post by **s6t9a2f3f** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:42 am

Erasmus wrote:I honestly can't see that there is another way of doing things, especially when our present way of doing things has been so unbelievably successful. What Burnley has achieved over the past decade is unmatched by any other team of our status without huge backing from wealthy owners. In the Premier League we are always going to be the underdog, unable to compete on equal terms. It's just the way it is and there's no 'other way' that will change that.

I just love the fact that despite all the odds stacked against us we have managed to put a spoke in the wheels of the multinational conglomerate teams from time to time. Pochettino going mad at the referee and Chelsea's rage at our 'anti-football' were so delightful. Of course we will get relegated sooner or later, that's the way money machine goes, but what we have achieved has been just wonderful. Who wouldn't be a happy clapper at such a time?

but surely we can compete at "our level" ? forget the premier league as a whole were looking at first objection 4th from bottom, when thats achieved move on to next objective. We all know the league is spilt from 6th downwards - last 2 seasons we finished 7th then last season a promoted club finished 7th so the whole league after 6th is a merry go round. So knowing the objective, having the stability of a 4th season and the money that generates we cannot find the "gems" we need lurking in the championship, league 1 and even sometimes league 2 ???

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:49 am

TVC15 wrote:What offers ?

Well clearly there is a string of Russian Oligarchs and Arabian Sheiks desperate to invest in a small mill town club in the north of England. Burnley is a massively desirable area. I keep seeing adverts on streaming sites telling me that Russian, Asian and other girls are looking specifically for men from Burnley.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:26 pm

Erasmus wrote:I honestly can't see that there is another way of doing things, especially when our present way of doing things has been so unbelievably successful. What Burnley has achieved over the past decade is unmatched by any other team of our status without huge backing from wealthy owners. In the Premier League we are always going to be the underdog, unable to compete on equal terms. It's just the way it is and there's no 'other way' that will change that.

I just love the fact that despite all the odds stacked against us we have managed to put a spoke in the wheels of the multinational conglomerate teams from time to time. Pochettino going mad at the referee and Chelsea's rage at our 'anti-football' were so delightful. Of course we will get relegated sooner or later, that's the way money machine goes, but what we have achieved has been just wonderful. Who wouldn't be a happy clapper at such a time?

Again though - I think (most) people accept that we're the underdog. The concern is the extent that we may be taking that to. If people are demanding we do all of our business before pre-season, then that's one thing. But I don't think that's generally the case - I think there's a concern that we're lining to do all our business late in the window and/or to end up doing little if any business at all.

Our achievement is in establishing ourselves at this level. We've done it brilliantly, and the methods we used to establish ourselves really did work well in the transfer market and I don't think anyone is really arguing (certainly not sensibly) for a total change in approach. But there is, I think a legitimate argument that having established ourselves at this level, we're in danger of not maximising the platform that gives us by taking our caution/stubbornness in the market to an unnecessary extreme. It's also the case that our strategy has been noticeably less successful in delivering the players Dyche wants in the past 3 windows than it appeared to be previously.

Let's not underplay our status, or our chances of maintaining our status now we've broken the glass ceiling. We're no more an underdog at this level than Swansea - who ran a similarly tight ship were - were (they went down because of the way they latterly turned over managers, and we can avoid making the same mistakes) and we're certainly less of an underdog this season than Sheffield United and Norwich. I don't expect (or want) us to go on a shopping spree this summer; I do want to see the squad end it stronger than it was last season, to reduce the risk (as far as we ever can) that we find ourselves in a similar predicament again.

Carport · Post by **Carport** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:57 pm

Why did we not compete this time to sign Adams when apparently we were in for him in Jan?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:00 pm

Who knows.

I suspect we thought we might be able to pick up a bargain with Birmingham’s financial predicament but it didn’t come off.
Probably don’t think he’s worth the value he’s actually gone for.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:08 pm

s6t9a2f3f wrote:but surely we can compete at "our level" ? forget the premier league as a whole were looking at first objection 4th from bottom, when thats achieved move on to next objective. We all know the league is spilt from 6th downwards - last 2 seasons we finished 7th then last season a promoted club finished 7th so the whole league after 6th is a merry go round. So knowing the objective, having the stability of a 4th season and the money that generates we cannot find the "gems" we need lurking in the championship, league 1 and even sometimes league 2 ???

I'm struggling to understand the point of your last sentence ..

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:12 pm

for a club with limited funds (and a board with no real spare cash to chuck at it) many on this board want a lot and want it now (often while not wanting to pay more themselves) - regular features are

Redevelop the ground - Bob Lord and Cricket Field in particular
Buy the Cricket Club
Buy better players and pay better wages
Improve the Academy
and my own - Pay a proper living wage to staff and get accreditation for it

We know that:
- there has been an awful lot spent on the Turf to improve facilities (Mainly for media, players, disabled and hospitality) and probably well north of £20m in last 3 seasons
- the club intends the Academy to go Cat 1 for the 2020-21 season, that is a commitment we have been saving for, running costs at around £4m-£5m a season (we will probably put money aside for 5 years min)
- Our wage bill jumped last season by over £20m (yes a lot bonus related - but that money was still paid out) and we committed almost £30m on 2 England internationals and one Czech International, recent years have seen us spend north of £100m in last 3 seasons (more than the rest of our history combined
- our club is on a reasonably secure (no club is totally secure whatever you may think) and sound financial footing. The only one in the Premier League (and possibly the pyramid) with no debt to anyone including it's owners and looking forward with a quiet confidence rather than looking nervously over our shoulders at creditors

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:13 pm

Carport wrote:Why did we not compete this time to sign Adams when apparently we were in for him in Jan?

maybe we did (we like to go about our business quietly) but he just chose them

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:21 pm

ClaretTony wrote:It’s the same posters every year. We all know now how we do business and I can’t believe any other club in this league will have a smaller budget than us. So quite why anyone is expecting early signings I don’t know.

From what I’ve heard there’s nothing close in terms of incoming players.

but we don't need to do this on every deal. What is the point in employing Rigg if nothing is going to change.

you cannot blame folk for wanting us to the best we can.

s6t9a2f3f · Post by **s6t9a2f3f** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:50 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm struggling to understand the point of your last sentence ..

Knowing our limitations and wage structure we should turn around and change to our advantage, how many players are we "wasting time on" as they have no intentions of signing for us for a variety of reasons, area, potential relegation fight, wages, etc etc etc so looking at the season objective which is finish 4th from bottom or better why cant we poach say Sheff Weds best player ? Preston's best player ? and deal at levels where we can use our small financial clout ?

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:15 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Didn’t we sign those three early in the transfer windows?

Charlie Taylor signed on 6th July. Pope and JBG were 19th July.

Grimsdale · Post by **Grimsdale** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:19 am

s6t9a2f3f wrote:Knowing our limitations and wage structure we should turn around and change to our advantage, how many players are we "wasting time on" as they have no intentions of signing for us for a variety of reasons, area, potential relegation fight, wages, etc etc etc so looking at the season objective which is finish 4th from bottom or better why cant we poach say Sheff Weds best player ? Preston's best player ? and deal at levels where we can use our small financial clout ?

Sheffield Wednesday's player of the year last season was Michael Hector who:
a. Is a central defender which is a position we don't need addressing at present, and
b. Was on loan from Chelsea so they will probably be asking 20 million +

Of course, we could always go for the guy who was voted their second best player of the season...

Steven Fletcher, come on down!

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:23 am

s6t9a2f3f wrote:Knowing our limitations and wage structure we should turn around and change to our advantage, how many players are we "wasting time on" as they have no intentions of signing for us for a variety of reasons, area, potential relegation fight, wages, etc etc etc so looking at the season objective which is finish 4th from bottom or better why cant we poach say Sheff Weds best player ? Preston's best player ? and deal at levels where we can use our small financial clout ?

A fair point to this argument

We enquired about Adams in Jan.

Given their problems with points deduction Brum did not want to sell in case it resulted in relegation but, we would have got a fair indication on expected wages at that time

Knowing the likes of Southampton were also keen, I'm sure the Chairman was realistic in the fact that they could and would offer more in wages than us and so we prob didn't even bother going back to Brum this summer - we are most likely only able to beat wage offers from Sheff Utd and Norwich (and even some Championship sides could be prepared to offer more)

But we should have also recognised this issue last season and put action plans together for players from lower leagues (either here or abroad)

I would rather see some younger players with potential on our bench than the likes of Crouch (as that's the only place we would see him next season if he decided we were good enough for him)

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:23 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Presumably we are expecting players and clubs to lower their demands then?

Possibly the players will at least?
For the overwhelming majority of young players, signing for Burnley is not going to be their first or even 16 or 17th choice of Premiership club whom they'd like to join. From a self-image point of view we do not offer the kudos of even Aston Villa & Wolves, nor the location attractions of even Watford & Bournemouth. Beyond that BFC have a reputation not only for a wage scale which is at the lower-end of the Premier League, but one that also insists that any & all player contracts include a stiff relegation clause to drastically cut that salary if we don't stay up.
With that background it's always going to be the exception rather than the rule for us to get players signed early in the window; the players are going to wait and see if their agent can interest a club which offers a better location, more kudos, or more generous salary terms. But towards the end of the transfer window when the choice is looking increasingly like Burnley or another season in the Championship, then at that point I suspect that their expectations and demands might well be lowered.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:36 am

AfloatinClaret wrote:Possibly the players will at least?
For the overwhelming majority of young players, signing for Burnley is not going to be their first or even 16 or 17th choice of Premiership club whom they'd like to join. From a self-image point of view we do not offer the kudos of even Aston Villa & Wolves, nor the location attractions of even Watford & Bournemouth. Beyond that BFC have a reputation not only for a wage scale which is at the lower-end of the Premier League, but one that also insists that any & all player contracts include a stiff relegation clause to drastically cut that salary if we don't stay up.
With that background it's always going to be the exception rather than the rule for us to get players signed early in the window; the players are going to wait and see if their agent can interest a club which offers a better location, more kudos, or more generous salary terms. But towards the end of the transfer window when the choice is looking increasingly like Burnley or another season in the Championship, then at that point I suspect that their expectations and demands might well be lowered.

Location attractions of Watford

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:16 am

AfloatinClaret wrote:Possibly the players will at least?
For the overwhelming majority of young players, signing for Burnley is not going to be their first or even 16 or 17th choice of Premiership club whom they'd like to join. From a self-image point of view we do not offer the kudos of even Aston Villa & Wolves, nor the location attractions of even Watford & Bournemouth. Beyond that BFC have a reputation not only for a wage scale which is at the lower-end of the Premier League, but one that also insists that any & all player contracts include a stiff relegation clause to drastically cut that salary if we don't stay up.
With that background it's always going to be the exception rather than the rule for us to get players signed early in the window; the players are going to wait and see if their agent can interest a club which offers a better location, more kudos, or more generous salary terms. But towards the end of the transfer window when the choice is looking increasingly like Burnley or another season in the Championship, then at that point I suspect that their expectations and demands might well be lowered.

That's a statement from the passed the academy is well up and running and starting to bear fruit we have just signed 11 new academy graduates.

We have super facilities now and we are a good pull now we operate in a completely different manor these days.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:20 am

Villa in early again - I wonder how early we will be this year

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:27 am

"We have just signed 11 new academy graduates " No different from any other year.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:47 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:"We have just signed 11 new academy graduates " No different from any other year.

Yes your probably right but the quality we can now attract is much better with our facilities we now have and can cater and develop these players on a completely different scale before it was like a scrapyard and that only attracts junk

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:13 pm

joey13 wrote:Location attractions of Watford

You have London transport infrastructure... might as well be North London in its attraction compared to Burnley for a young man.

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:19 pm

They need a government loan though, its half the price they have to shell out up this neck of the woods in costs there only on 27 pounds 50

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:32 am

Longside4evr wrote:...the academy is well up and running and starting to bear fruit we have just signed 11 new academy graduates We have super facilities now and we are a good pull now we operate in a completely different manor these days.

Sorry, I thought we - I certainly was - were discussing players coming in to be part of next season's first team squad? I'm very impressed and pleased with the development of the Academy, but whether we signed 11 or 111 to it this summer, not one of them is likely to play/keep us in the EPL next season

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