Parental responsibility (politics warning)

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Damo
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Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Damo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:40 am

Apparently the government have a responsibility to look after our children for 5 days per week.
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/sta ... 73824?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Imagine wanting this government to bring up your kids while you spend 18 hours a day on social media.
Words fail me

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:54 am

Shocking that she expects the government to enable schools to EDUCATE children for 5 days a week not four and a half.

Amazing too how anyone can spin this to blame the expectations of parents and children instead of laying it at the feet of the government who now fail to provide such a basic function of society which has been a staple of British life my entire lifetime and probably a couple more to boot.
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:12 am

CombatClaret wrote:Shocking that she expects the government to enable schools to EDUCATE children for 5 days a week not four and a half.

Amazing too how anyone can spin this to blame the expectations of parents and children instead of laying it at the feet of the government who now fail to provide such a basic function of society which has been a staple of British life my entire lifetime and probably a couple more to boot.
It's the parents responsibility first and foremost to 'look after' and educate their children.

If she did not envisage the 'hardship' of becoming a parent (I'm going to have to find extra childcare. not, I'm going to have to give up my job to look after this inconvenience), then maybe she shouldn't have had a child.

It's not compulsory to have one.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Damo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:31 am

CombatClaret wrote:Shocking that she expects the government to enable schools to EDUCATE children for 5 days a week not four and a half.

Amazing too how anyone can spin this to blame the expectations of parents and children instead of laying it at the feet of the government who now fail to provide such a basic function of society which has been a staple of British life my entire lifetime and probably a couple more to boot.
They do enable schools to educate for 5 days per week.
She expects them to look after her kids for 5 days per week though, which is typical of entitled folk like her
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:31 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's the parents responsibility first and foremost to 'look after' and educate their children.

If she did not envisage the 'hardship' of becoming a parent (I'm going to have to find extra childcare. not, I'm going to have to give up my job to look after this inconvenience), then maybe she shouldn't have had a child.

It's not compulsory to have one.
The parent's responsibility to look after/cloth/feed etc a child is not the debate here, that's a stawman covered in petrol.

It's not compulsory to have a child but "full time" education of that child is legally compulsory until the age of 16.
The question is why are schools having to close for an afternoon when they have offered full 5 day a week education for as long as I have been alive?

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:34 am

Damo wrote:They do enable schools to educate for 5 days per week.
She expects them to look after her kids for 5 days per week though, which is typical of entitled folk like her
Educate and 'look after' are being used in this instance as interchangeable. It's not day care it's education.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Damo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:36 am

CombatClaret wrote:The parent's responsibility to look after/cloth/feed etc a child is not the debate here, that's a stawman covered in petrol.

It's not compulsory to have a child but "full time" education of that child is legally compulsory until the age of 16.
The question is why are schools having to close for an afternoon when they have offered full 5 day a week education for as long as I have been alive?
I'm fairly sure schools have always provided 25 hours education per week, and still do. If they close early on a friday then that must mean they start early/finish late to suit teachers, or parents wanting more flexible hours

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:33 am

Damo wrote:Apparently the government have a responsibility to look after our children for 5 days per week.
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/sta ... 73824?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Imagine wanting this government to bring up your kids while you spend 18 hours a day on social media.
Words fail me
They do though. Whose responsibility do you think it is that kids at schools be looked after? Do you think parents should be in the classroom with their kids looking after them while a teacher teaches them?

What a weird thing to be virtue-signa... objecting to.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by gavster » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:27 am

Flipping dog whistle first post. Yes parenting is a choice, yes that choice comes with a responsibility. Jess isn’t always my cup of tea but her point about schools not staying open due to austerity cuts is one we should all be worried about. Education is the corner stone of all modern progress. Our schools need to be world leading places of inspiration. The pressure on schools is ridiculous

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Caballo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 am

I'm slightly baffled as to the 'not being able to afford to stay open'. The big cost , like any business will be labour, they're salaried, closing a couple of hrs early saves precisely nothing on that front. Your down to a bit of heating and lighting after that.
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:35 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's the parents responsibility first and foremost to 'look after' and educate their children.

If she did not envisage the 'hardship' of becoming a parent (I'm going to have to find extra childcare. not, I'm going to have to give up my job to look after this inconvenience), then maybe she shouldn't have had a child.

It's not compulsory to have one.
While I agree with some of your points, the child clearly used to go to school for five full days and this changed. This will have implications on parents whose working hours are planned around school hours.

She has a point about highlighting education budget cuts but using the phrase it is the government’s responsibility to look after children five days a week leaves her wide open to criticism (as per the OP).

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by taio » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:49 am

Caballo wrote:I'm slightly baffled as to the 'not being able to afford to stay open'. The big cost , like any business will be labour, they're salaried, closing a couple of hrs early saves precisely nothing on that front. Your down to a bit of heating and lighting after that.
Presumably it's more about having sufficient staff capacity to stay open at the time in question.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by taio » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:53 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It's the parents responsibility first and foremost to 'look after' and educate their children.

If she did not envisage the 'hardship' of becoming a parent (I'm going to have to find extra childcare. not, I'm going to have to give up my job to look after this inconvenience), then maybe she shouldn't have had a child.

It's not compulsory to have one.
I'm sure she will be highlighting the pressure on other parents who are in low paid work and may struggle to pay for their children to be looked after when schools close in such a way, rather than thinking purely about herself and her own child.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Corky » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:04 am

Generally speaking she is one of the more down to earth and likeable MPs but on this occasion she seemed to obfuscate just like the rest of them. She was asked why schools in Birmingham who allegedly, on average, get more money per child for education than other areas still can't afford to keep the schools open for 5 full days. Her response was to still blame the Gvmnt, that, after saying she was a constituency MP. Surely the job of your local MP if they have 3 Schools in her area (her figures) that are shutting early through lack of funds or so they say need to be challenged by the local Gvmnt as to why with the local MP also getting involved.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:17 am

There is something clearly amiss.
The first point is schools should be open 5 days a week, they should mirror, as best as possible a normal working week. Asking children to attend school for 4 and a half days puts a burden on people trying to pay their way through life.

The second point is why does it affect some schools but not all. Cuts in services are never helpful, but without seeing the books of these schools, do we know its cuts that are causing it. Is it down to incompetence of who uses the budget, and everyone has to work to a budget, or is it just a left wing scam to highlight an issue, and cause a storm in a tea cup.

I'm not answering because I dont know the answer, but if these schools are genuine, then they need to show the evidence of where and when the money was cut, AND where and when the money was being spent. While I'm angry that the schools are doing this, I've no idea where I should be directing that anger.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:25 am

I can’t see anywhere in the story which states that the children aren’t receiving their statutory hours of education.

It’s presumably more cost effective for the schools to plan their timetable to close early on a Friday without reducing teaching hours. As I said earlier, I don’t think her line of argument is doing her any favours.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by taio » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:29 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:I can’t see anywhere in the story which states that the children aren’t receiving their statutory hours of education.

It’s presumably more cost effective for the schools to plan their timetable to close early on a Friday without reducing teaching hours. As I said earlier, I don’t think her line of argument is doing her any favours.
They will be providing the statutory hours but it seems at odds with government policy to encourage people to work, especially those who earn at or around the national living wage.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Burnley Ace » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:56 am

To have an informed discussion we would need to see the accounts and know what the staffing ratios are.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Imploding Turtle » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:56 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:While I agree with some of your points, the child clearly used to go to school for five full days and this changed. This will have implications on parents whose working hours are planned around school hours.

She has a point about highlighting education budget cuts but using the phrase it is the government’s responsibility to look after children five days a week leaves her wide open to criticism (as per the OP).

It leads her wide open to criticism only from idiots who want to deliberately misinterpret what she's saying (as per the OP).

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TheFamilyCat » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:00 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:It leads her wide open to criticism only from idiots who want to deliberately misinterpret what she's saying (as per the OP).
Yes and the idiots who deliberately misinterpret (or just read the headline and not the full story) generally make the most noise and the truth usually gets drowned out.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Erasmus » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:34 am

I live in Birmingham and my son's school is one of those that is having to go down to 4.5 days a week. It won't affect us financially because my partner works part-time and can usually not work on Fridays. For other parents, however, this is causing real difficulties with regard to their working hours and their income.

My son's school has provided a detailed financial breakdown for all parents which shows a marked drop in income over the past few years. The reason that the cuts affect some schools more than others is that there are a number of factors on which school funding is based, such as the area they are in, numbers of children with special needs etc. I've deleted the email so I haven't got the exact breakdown to hand, but my son's school has experienced a significant drop in funding due to government cuts.

As far as I can see from the information given, there is no question of any incompetence in the management of school budgets and the head teacher has done everything she possibly can to avoid this situation arising. Even before this proposal, classroom assistants have been dismissed and this has such a detrimental effect on the standard of education. Where children are struggling, a classroom assistant is able to give one to one attention to ensure that such a child is able to keep up, and that the classroom teacher doesn't have to spend so much time attending to that child's needs. That has all gone now, again due to reductions in school funding.

This is a problem caused by reductions in government spending on education and it is having a detrimental effect on children's education. I can state it as a fact that the reduction to 4.5 day weeks is entirely due to funding cuts put in place by the government.

And as a message to Colburn. You say that you are ignorant on this issue, but still you choose to throw out smears about a 'left wing scam'. This is not acceptable. The staff at my son's school have worked so hard to avoid this and suffered a lot of stress over it, and so I find your cheap ,ill-informed smear really disgraceful. My advice to you would be that if you are ignorant, say nothing, and don't allow your tribal political prejudices to lead you to this kind of horrible mud slinging.
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:39 am

What a ridiculous OP.
She is not doing this out of a sense of entitlement - clearly it’s about austerity.
Most state schools have had to make significant numbers of their teaching staff redundant in the last few years - it’s happened in all schools in Burnley. The numbers of supply teachers they have to bring in are at record highs.

And now schools are cutting the school week.

Not sure I necessarily agree with the way she chose to protest but more importantly it’s achieved what she set out to do and got a lot of coverage and publicity. Some of the sh-ite on Twitter about referring her to social services is pathetic.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Rileybobs » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:48 am

I’m surprised Damo isn’t concerned about the effect this may have on his grandchildren’s welfare.
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:I’m surprised Damo isn’t concerned about the effect this may have on his grandchildren’s welfare.
It’s fine - they’ll be able to go down Wonderland all Friday afternoon and play Asteroids
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by taio » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 am

I admire the way she has gone about protesting this. She's of course doing so both as a caring parent but using her position as a MP to unselfishly highlight the consequences for others who are less fortunate than her and her family. I don't see anything wrong with that at all - it's for what she believes are the right reasons and it's hard argue with that, especially when putting political (blind) loyalties (to other parties) to one side.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by evensteadiereddie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:50 am

Erasmus wrote:I live in Birmingham and my son's school is one of those that is having to go down to 4.5 days a week. It won't affect us financially because my partner works part-time and can usually not work on Fridays. For other parents, however, this is causing real difficulties with regard to their working hours and their income.

My son's school has provided a detailed financial breakdown for all parents which shows a marked drop in income over the past few years. The reason that the cuts affect some schools more than others is that there are a number of factors on which school funding is based, such as the area they are in, numbers of children with special needs etc. I've deleted the email so I haven't got the exact breakdown to hand, but my son's school has experienced a significant drop in funding due to government cuts.

As far as I can see from the information given, there is no question of any incompetence in the management of school budgets and the head teacher has done everything she possibly can to avoid this situation arising. Even before this proposal, classroom assistants have been dismissed and this has such a detrimental effect on the standard of education. Where children are struggling, a classroom assistant is able to give one to one attention to ensure that such a child is able to keep up, and that the classroom teacher doesn't have to spend so much time attending to that child's needs. That has all gone now, again due to reductions in school funding.

This is a problem caused by reductions in government spending on education and it is having a detrimental effect on children's education. I can state it as a fact that the reduction to 4.5 day weeks is entirely due to funding cuts put in place by the government.

And as a message to Colburn. You say that you are ignorant on this issue, but still you choose to throw out smears about a 'left wing scam'. This is not acceptable. The staff at my son's school have worked so hard to avoid this and suffered a lot of stress over it, and so I find your cheap ,ill-informed smear really disgraceful. My advice to you would be that if you are ignorant, say nothing, and don't allow your tribal political prejudices to lead you to this kind of horrible mud slinging.

Read and learn, Damo, read and learn.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Lord Beamish » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:55 am

There are few things more exhilarating than the thrill of pointing out the shortcomings of others; particularly in the area of raising kids.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Dy1geo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:13 am

As long as the children are getting the same amount of teaching time there isn’t an issue. When I went to school we started at 9 and finished at 3.45 with an hour and a half for dinner. When my son went to his high school because dinner was cut to half an hour he finished at 2.50 each day and 2.10 on Wednesday and I can’t remember the outcry over getting childcare etc

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:14 am

Erasmus wrote: My advice to you would be that if you are ignorant, say nothing.
Hi Erasmus, great advice........ but, we'd only have about 2 posts a day if your advice was applied to this mb.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 am

Erasmus wrote:I live in Birmingham and my son's school is one of those that is having to go down to 4.5 days a week. It won't affect us financially because my partner works part-time and can usually not work on Fridays. For other parents, however, this is causing real difficulties with regard to their working hours and their income.

My son's school has provided a detailed financial breakdown for all parents which shows a marked drop in income over the past few years. The reason that the cuts affect some schools more than others is that there are a number of factors on which school funding is based, such as the area they are in, numbers of children with special needs etc. I've deleted the email so I haven't got the exact breakdown to hand, but my son's school has experienced a significant drop in funding due to government cuts.

As far as I can see from the information given, there is no question of any incompetence in the management of school budgets and the head teacher has done everything she possibly can to avoid this situation arising. Even before this proposal, classroom assistants have been dismissed and this has such a detrimental effect on the standard of education. Where children are struggling, a classroom assistant is able to give one to one attention to ensure that such a child is able to keep up, and that the classroom teacher doesn't have to spend so much time attending to that child's needs. That has all gone now, again due to reductions in school funding.

This is a problem caused by reductions in government spending on education and it is having a detrimental effect on children's education. I can state it as a fact that the reduction to 4.5 day weeks is entirely due to funding cuts put in place by the government.

And as a message to Colburn. You say that you are ignorant on this issue, but still you choose to throw out smears about a 'left wing scam'. This is not acceptable. The staff at my son's school have worked so hard to avoid this and suffered a lot of stress over it, and so I find your cheap ,ill-informed smear really disgraceful. My advice to you would be that if you are ignorant, say nothing, and don't allow your tribal political prejudices to lead you to this kind of horrible mud slinging.
I'm sorry for your situation, but you're a muppet if you claim I was mud slinging. I put out several theories and admitted I didn't know enough of the facts to say which, if any , was true.
You've cleared some of those questions up with the rest of your post, but I dont have any political axe to grind. I'm a homeless socialist, just looking for the truth. If life has proved one thing over the last 20 years, it's that neither political wing can be trusted on anything. They also love to exploit any bad news and spin it for their own agenda, rather than trying to resolve any particular situation. There is a lot of propaganda to be made of this issue, I'd just prefer to know the truth than accept the facts either side is likely to spin.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:23 am

Dy1geo wrote:As long as the children are getting the same amount of teaching time there isn’t an issue. When I went to school we started at 9 and finished at 3.45 with an hour and a half for dinner. When my son went to his high school because dinner was cut to half an hour he finished at 2.50 each day and 2.10 on Wednesday and I can’t remember the outcry over getting childcare etc
Of course there's an issue. There's always been an expectancy that your children will be at school - broadly - 8.45 till 3.30 Monday to Friday, and most people have made long term plans based on this. You might have 3 children, 2 finishing at the normal time, and you might suddenly have to change your work arrangements or arrange childcare for the 3rd. Not everyone can simply arrange or afford childcare to cover this change of circumstances.
Without wanting to over politicise this, it's once again a case of young parents having to pick up the tab for a govt. cut.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:24 am

For many years now companies and local government offices have been mooting ideas of ‘working from home’, ‘ flexible hours’ so it shouldn’t be a massive leap, for this to be a smoother transition than people seem to be protesting about.
I would also like all schools from Year 1, to Year 11, to have a complete school day of, play, sport and/or competition. It would break up the academic week and there would be massive benefits for schools, staff and pupils. Year 1 onwards would probably have to work their way down to that 1 day a week but everything is doable. Perhaps have an option of art/music/drama on those days as well but there would need to be a strategy for those who would like to partake in both. The good thing about an art/music/drama day is that there is no need to have age/year restrictions.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:31 am

Colburn_Claret wrote: I'm a homeless socialist, just looking for the truth.
Did you manage to keep a straight face whilst you were typing that - Muppet!

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by CombatClaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:32 am

Darnhill Claret wrote:. The good thing about an art/music/drama day is that there is no need to have age/year restrictions.
Ok children, take your crayons and draw me a nice colourful picture about the social themes of Timberlake Wertenbaker's 'Our Country's Good'

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Erasmus » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:40 am

Well I apologise, Colburn, for being overly irritable about this, but even a suggestion that this is a 'left-wing scam' raises the possibility and some will seize on it for political reasons. The fact is that government funding cuts are having a detrimental effect on the quality of education our children receive and I just wish they would have the honesty to admit it and argue that this is necessary in order to re-balance the national budget.

Then we could have a proper discussion in realistic terms. Of course we need to bring the deficit down, but this can also be done by raising taxes for those (like me) who are better off, or by finding ways of taxing companies like Amazon who sell online. To my mind these policies have to be preferable to damaging our systems of education, health care etc. When we get to this stage, it's obvious that the cuts have gone too far.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by If it be your will » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:48 am

I happen to think the school week should be 4 days. But I think the standard work week should be 4 days, too.

We don't need any more economic growth. Productivity improvements should provide more free time from here, not a bigger economy - it's big enough already.
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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Darnhill Claret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:55 am

Some ‘themes’ are best left to the over 16’s.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Damo » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:00 pm

Apologies for this thread.
I'd been out. Angry (drunk) man shaking fist at a cloud
These 2 users liked this post: evensteadiereddie nil_desperandum

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:21 pm

Schools start too early as well - they should start at 10am.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:28 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Schools start too early as well - they should start at 10am.
Yep or maybe 11.30am and finish at say 2pm just after their dinner break.
These poor little treasures are shattered after playing on Fortnite till 5am

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:32 pm

TVC15 wrote:Yep or maybe 11.30am and finish at say 2pm just after their dinner break.
These poor little treasures are shattered after playing on Fortnite till 5am
It's to do with biology and teen sleeping patterns. I remember reading about scientific studies showing it can be beneficial to start later around 10 and finish later.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Hipper » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:48 pm

If it be your will wrote:I happen to think the school week should be 4 days. But I think the standard work week should be 4 days, too.

We don't need any more economic growth. Productivity improvements should provide more free time from here, not a bigger economy - it's big enough already.
That would be so if people weren't piling into this country.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:20 pm

FactualFrank wrote:It's to do with biology and teen sleeping patterns. I remember reading about scientific studies showing it can be beneficial to start later around 10 and finish later.
A lot of European countries start school earlier - partly because of the hot weather.
I’m sure their are plenty of scientific studies that contradict one another saying to start earlier and later.

One of the most important aid to making sure children concentrate in school in the last few years is unfortunately in relation to poverty. Many schools have realised now that big numbers of their children are coming to school hungry and have evidenced that if they feed them with a bit of breakfast that their behaviour and concentration improves significantly.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by gtclaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:21 pm

She obviously meant the kids should be looked after whilst they are in school which should be 5 days a week during normal school hours and not 41/2 days. She is not suggesting that the school should take parental responsibility, that us misquoting her.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:30 pm

TVC15 wrote:I’m sure their are plenty of scientific studies that contradict one another saying to start earlier and later.
I'm glad you don't work in medicine! :)

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:34 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I'm glad you don't work in medicine! :)
If it was any strong evidence that what you said was correct then surely they would be doing this in schools somewhere ?
I can’t think of any major country where schools start at 10am.
As you know there are plenty of medical and scientific studies down the years that have directly contradicted each other.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:37 pm

Erasmus wrote:Well I apologise, Colburn, for being overly irritable about this, but even a suggestion that this is a 'left-wing scam' raises the possibility and some will seize on it for political reasons. The fact is that government funding cuts are having a detrimental effect on the quality of education our children receive and I just wish they would have the honesty to admit it and argue that this is necessary in order to re-balance the national budget.

Then we could have a proper discussion in realistic terms. Of course we need to bring the deficit down, but this can also be done by raising taxes for those (like me) who are better off, or by finding ways of taxing companies like Amazon who sell online. To my mind these policies have to be preferable to damaging our systems of education, health care etc. When we get to this stage, it's obvious that the cuts have gone too far.
I agree, no one likes paying taxes, but if the alternative is cutting back on education, it's a price worth paying.
It isnt a problem for where I live, at the moment, and I still find it strange that its come to this. It shouldnt be a local issue though. If they can get away with it in Brum, I'm sure they'll try it elsewhere. It's something everybody should be screaming about. I dont even know who your local MP is, but it has to be first port of call that they are held to account. Too many politicians get a free run, as people vote party lines, and never get held accountable. You cant get into a party's head without stepping on a few toes first.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:43 pm

TVC15 wrote:If it was any strong evidence that what you said was correct then surely they would be doing this in schools somewhere ?
I can’t think of any major country where schools start at 10am.
As you know there are plenty of medical and scientific studies down the years that have directly contradicted each other.
The evidence has only started coming to the surface this year. Schools won't rush into making decisions like that. The government responded to a petition which had over 187,000 people sign and have basically left it up to each school - but this was this school year just gone.

We shall have to wait to see how many trial it, which I am sure some will. Trialed, just as drugs are. Don't forget it's a massive decision for schools to do - regardless of the evidence. You'll always get people stamping their feet and crying, regardless.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by HatfieldClaret » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:50 pm

Imagine leaving your kids on the doorstep of someone you don't like, when they are out.

Safe though, there was a heavy police presence at the time.

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Re: Parental responsibility (politics warning)

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:04 pm

FactualFrank wrote:The evidence has only started coming to the surface this year. Schools won't rush into making decisions like that. The government responded to a petition which had over 187,000 people sign and have basically left it up to each school - but this was this school year just gone.

We shall have to wait to see how many trial it, which I am sure some will. Trialed, just as drugs are. Don't forget it's a massive decision for schools to do - regardless of the evidence. You'll always get people stamping their feet and crying, regardless.
Fair enough but to me it sounds like another waste of money commissioned piece of research to me.
If kids are tired starting lessons at 9am then they are going to be tired at 10am too...and even though I jokingly said that’s because they are up all night playing Fortnite there is actually plenty of evidence to show how many more children stay up a lot lot later than many of us were allowed to because of gaming, social media, mobile phones etc.
I’d have em down the workhouses at 5am sewing up leather shoes then off to school at 8am and finish at 6pm to do a late shift back at the workhouse. See how much Fortnite and Facetwitter sh-ite they can manage after that !

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