England vs Sweden

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:48 am

Newspaper headlines tomorrow morning will no doubt consist of Bronze and Bronze.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:10 pm

1-0 to Sweden.

I'm not watching either, it's just on in the other room.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:32 pm

Sweden went 2-0 up... England pulled one back.

And another... 2-2.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:33 pm

2 England goals in 2 minutes

2-2

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:34 pm

Or maybe not
VAR being used.......

.......no goal. Handball

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:36 pm

Ouch... again!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:37 pm

clear and obvious my arse, they need to get a grip of this quickly before it completely runs the sport - and I'm 100% for VAR !

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:38 pm

That wasn’t very clear. I think the ref just guessed it was hand ball.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:40 pm

Very
Arbitrary
Refereeing

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:41 pm

I’m not watching it but England sides haven’t had much luck since the introduction of VAR have they.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:45 pm

I’m all for VAR but so far tossing a coin would be more accurate

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:48 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:I’m all for VAR but so far tossing a coin would be more accurate

I won't bore you to tears by explaining why a coin toss isn't 50/50.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:08 pm

Sweden the much better side in most of the important areas.

Can England keep the score down.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:11 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Sweden the much better side in most of the important areas.

Aye - the football pitch.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:14 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:clear and obvious my arse, they need to get a grip of this quickly before it completely runs the sport - and I'm 100% for VAR !

It is the future so just get used to it.
The referee would not even have considered handball if the VAR and Assistant VAR operators had not given their opinion! It is not VAR it is human opinion that is the influence.

claret wizard · Post by **claret wizard** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:38 pm

Why’s this on BBC1? Greatest tennis player of all time on BBC2.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:40 pm

claret wizard wrote:Why’s this on BBC1? Greatest tennis player of all time on BBC2.

You just answered your own question - it's tennis.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:48 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:It is the future so just get used to it.
The referee would not even have considered handball if the VAR and Assistant VAR operators had not given their opinion! It is not VAR it is human opinion that is the influence.

if it carries on at this standard then I'll find something else to do instead of watching the footy !!!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:53 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:if it carries on at this standard then I'll find something else to do instead of watching the footy !!!

That will be two of us then! I have already made my mind up!
I'm not prepared to do a 300 mile round trip to watch the Clarets just for the game to be decided by a committee ---two of whom will be a hundred miles away. Thank goodness for football outside the PL and also Rugby League!

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:15 pm

A Swedish defensive master class. Just like watching the Clarets - except most of the Swedish lasses are lookers. One of them looks like a very pale
"Avatar" character and another like a bloke but they're the exceptions.

We even had a Ben Mee "It's gonna knock my head off but I'm gonna head it anyway" clearance off the line.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:18 pm

Ashingtonclaret.....I totally get what you are saying but it's probably no worse than doing the round trip just for the game to be decided by a clown like Bobby Madley or Lee Mason.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:41 pm

Stalbansclaret wrote:Ashingtonclaret.....I totally get what you are saying but it's probably no worse than doing the round trip just for the game to be decided by a clown like Bobby Madley or Lee Mason.

I have done the job myself at a lower level, however, I can always forgive a mistake made at full speed and its consequences. I do not like the idea of lots of slow motion replays and the introduction of opinions from people not involved on the pitch or its surroundings. I know that it is my choice but that is t he way I feel about VAR.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:07 pm

For those unsure on the VAR handball call it was correct.
You cannot score following a handball even if it was accidental.
They've played well most matches but the last two their passing for the final ball was dire. got what they deserved.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:09 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:For those unsure on the VAR handball call it was correct.
You cannot score following a handball even if it was accidental.
They've played well most matches but the last two their passing for the final ball was dire. got what they deserved.

I'm never up to date with these rules, but if a handball is accidental - and the word 'accidental' is key here - it should be ignored. In my opinion.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:13 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I'm never up to date with these rules, but if a handball is accidental - and the word 'accidental' is key here - it should be ignored. In my opinion.

It's better this way, because then a player can't make it look accidental and it can't be down to the opinion of a ref to say it's accidental..

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:14 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I'm never up to date with these rules, but if a handball is accidental - and the word 'accidental' is key here - it should be ignored. In my opinion.

The incident I always go back to was Jason Wilcox, for our NEIGHbours at Pompey in the FA Cup. He slid in,on his arse, on an awful, slippery pitch and his feet were in front of the crossed ball. Totally accidentally, as he slid, he knocked it in with his hand. Under them laws it was quite rightly given but absolutely zero justice for Pompey. i prefer the new interpretation.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:23 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:That will be two of us then! I have already made my mind up!
I'm not prepared to do a 300 mile round trip to watch the Clarets just for the game to be decided by a committee ---two of whom will be a hundred miles away. Thank goodness for football outside the PL and also Rugby League!

If this is the future i'm glad i've ditched my pay TV package,i can sympathise with the many Clarets who commute to games and have a season of VAR to suffer.

This isn't sour grapes from an England viewpoint,as Sweden deserved to win the game,but these VAR decisions are getting barmier by the game.

It's perhaps 3 years or so since VAR was trialled in the Copa America,and in that time i see no improvement,the problem is that decisions will still be subjective,therefore one person could see an incident totally differently to another.

The only conclusive call that VAR can make is with goal line technology,even offsides aren't always clear cut.

Just to clarify your last sentence i thought Rugby League did have a video referee system in place,or is that just to confirm tries,i know Rugby Union definitely have a video official.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:42 pm

I'm in agreement with what Ashy and others are saying about VAR (even though I am/was in favour of it).

But VAR had nothing to do with how dreadful we were. And boy, we were dreadful.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:45 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I won't bore you to tears by explaining why a coin toss isn't 50/50.

Nor is VAR!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:50 pm

tiger --yes Rugby League does use a video referee system which works well, however, it is used to see whether or not the ball was touched down correctly and by whom, whether a player's foot has gone into touch when scoring a try, whether a player was in an offside position, in front of the kicker, when a kick is made, usually on the last tackle and also whether or not a player has obstructed another by making a dummy run --again this is a check when a try is under scrutiny.

It works well because they show everything on the screen at the stadium and you hear the referee asking for whatever he wants clarifying.
All the decisions are really black and white with very little room for doubt so it works well and it is the referee who asks for the information, unlike VAR in football where it is the operators who intervene with their opinion which, as far as I am concerned, undermines the authority of the onfield officials and can lead to problems such as happened in the Cameroon game when the referee was left hanging on for over 5 minutes whilst decisions were made and then all the pundits were hanging her out to dry!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:52 pm

IanMcL wrote:Nor is VAR!

That's the point buddy

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:52 pm

It’ll see you into an early grave this VAR Ash.

It’s July, just relax about it.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:25 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:It’ll see you into an early grave this VAR Ash.

It’s July, just relax about it.

Bordeaux-- you are so far off the truth as anyone who knows me will tell you.
I express an opinion about it that is all. It is the future of the game whether I like it or not and I shall let them get on with it.
I shall be at the Turf this season and will enjoy my drive down, meet up with friends and relatives, watch the match and enjoy the drive back home no matter what the result. Hopefully, I will be able to take in a few, VAR free, youth matches if they coincide with our home games and Sky don't mess us about too much and that makes for a cracking day out.

The last thing that I shall worry about is VAR because I know that this is my last season as a season ticket holder so I shall go and watch Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Carlisle who won't be encumbered by outside influences.

Ah well, back to the Bordeaux now for the rest of the evening ---it is very relaxing and keeps the blood pressure in check!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:35 pm

I’ll be honest you go on about it a lot.
This week alone you’ve been telling us how it’s not on they use it in football for goals alone as those decisions are no more important than any other yet tell us it works well in Rugby League who use it for tries alone.

I get you don’t like it but the reasoning continues to be scattergun.

Anyway, enjoy the next few weeks and hopefully Middlesbrough don’t get promoted for your sake.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:41 pm

FactualFrank wrote:That's the point buddy

I was completing the circle.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:49 pm

Has Neville been given the gooner yet with a manager appointed this time.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:54 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Has Neville been given the gooner yet with a manager appointed this time.

He fecked up with the waistcoat. That was laughable.

But USA woman-for-woman were pretty much all better than England. And Sweden were tactically better.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 pm

Never came across as management material some how but does talk a good game.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:58 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I’ll be honest you go on about it a lot.
This week alone you’ve been telling us how it’s not on they use it in football for goals alone as those decisions are no more important than any other yet tell us it works well in Rugby League who use it for tries alone.

I get you don’t like it but the reasoning continues to be scattergun.

Anyway, enjoy the next few weeks and hopefully Middlesbrough don’t get promoted for your sake.

Rugby League is at the request of the referee who also says whether or not he thinks that it is a try or not when he refers it and they have to have good reason to reverse the decision. Football is not at the request of the referee, it is outside interference, hence, why not let them interfere with every decision. Simple really, there is no comparison with its use in Rugby League at all because the players accept it, however, the football players do not, as was seen by the Cameroon players and also this afternoon with the disallowed England goal.

Cheers!

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:05 pm

So it’s nothing to do with one decision being more important than another? Now it’s who makes it?

As I said, the more it gets to you the more scattergun it gets.
It wasn’t long ago you were claiming parents at junior football would be calling for VAR.

Your dedication to defend on field referees is admirable but you really need to relax.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:36 pm

There are some excellent players and some very inconsistent ones.

Pity, as they played some good stuff. Some players off the bench, appeared to be much better than the starting players, or is that my imagination?

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:36 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I won't bore you to tears by explaining why a coin toss isn't 50/50.

Yes, but we would have an infinite number of tosses. A bit like VAR.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:07 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:So it’s nothing to do with one decision being more important than another? Now it’s who makes it?

As I said, the more it gets to you the more scattergun it gets.
It wasn’t long ago you were claiming parents at junior football would be calling for VAR.

Your dedication to defend on field referees is admirable but you really need to relax.

Methinks that you have no sense of humour.
Do you really know what I think? You only know what I put on here and I could well be a politician or a member of the Burnley Board ---they all only tell you what they want you to know.

If you think that I get uptight about anything relating to football after being involved with it for over 68 years in various countries, then I am sorry.
It is just a game and, as far as I am concerned, that is all it will ever be, however, I do have firm opinions. If you think I am scattergun, that is fine, at least you are having to think about it which is never a bad thing.

It is corrupt from top to bottom but it is still a game I love and have done so as a player, junior coach, manager, administrator and official.
I will defend onfiled officials because the job has got harder season by season and now those running the game are changing the Laws in order to accommodate VAR ---except the Premier League are not going to use it for keepers being on their line for penalty kicks ----they are making their own Laws. Please tell me which Laws should be taught to a young official.

Should it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws with VAR with exceptions?
Many fans can't get used to a free kick for offside being given when the offender has gone back into his own half so I hope that they can cope with everything else that is being thrown at them.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:19 pm

Apologies, that doesn’t sound like it’s getting to you at all.

Enjoy the rest of July.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:30 pm

dougcollins wrote:Yes, but we would have an infinite number of tosses. A bit like VAR.

That has no bearing on the 50/50.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:50 am

South West Claret. wrote:Never came across as management material some how but does talk a good game.

England women have gone backward under the " media darling ", Phil Neville, despite all the hype .... Mark Sampson did a much better job, with inferior funding, profile etc .... before the BBC decided they could pick up the rights for naff all, and market it as a " World Cup ", on a level with the Men's game, to fill a large proportion of the Summer schedule at minimal cost ...

turfytopper · Post by **turfytopper** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:33 am

Vegas Claret wrote:clear and obvious my arse, they need to get a grip of this quickly before it completely runs the sport - and I'm 100% for VAR !

Totally agree. I was all for it..... I'm not anymore (in its present form) The game is run by idiots...

When all the players think it's a good goal... all the supporters think it's a goal and VAR is still used then there is problem.

Clear and obvious should be just that...an appeal from the offending team would be a better starting point. Maybe give them three appeals per game.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:24 am

turfytopper wrote:Clear and obvious should be just that...an appeal from the offending team would be a better starting point. Maybe give them three appeals per game.

That would make it worse. We’d have a VAR review for every goal scored and almost certainly a total of 6 reviews every game.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:07 pm

turfytopper wrote:Totally agree. I was all for it..... I'm not anymore (in its present form) The game is run by idiots...

When all the players think it's a good goal... all the supporters think it's a goal and VAR is still used then there is problem.

Clear and obvious should be just that...an appeal from the offending team would be a better starting point. Maybe give them three appeals per game.

someone on here came up with a great idea - VAR should be allowed 2 replays only, if they can't make a decision after that then it's not clear and obvious

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:19 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:someone on here came up with a great idea - VAR should be allowed 2 replays only, if they can't make a decision after that then it's not clear and obvious

Knowing there's often more than 2 angles and one of them often tells the story, I don't think that makes much sense.