Ambassador Farage

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:48 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Their agenda is the same though. The break-up of the western alliances and democracies, and the end of liberalism.

Yes, it's deeply depressing.

rob63 · Post by **rob63** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:52 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:Everything about this situation stinks to high heaven.

Anything about current politics stinks to high heaven!

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:53 pm

Tricky Trevor wrote:Pleased Hunt has come out and said if he becomes PM he will not be changing our ambassador. Would be helpful if Bojo would do the same and allow the British PM to choose our diplomats and not a narcisistic imbecile.

Well done Tricky Trev. Gave you a 'like' for your double-think.

If it's "helpful" for British PMs to be able to choose their own diplomats, then it's "helpful" that Boris can decide who pick for the roles if he becomes PM.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:54 pm

Rowls wrote:Well done Tricky Trev. Gave you a 'like' for your double-think.

If it's "helpful" for British PMs to be able to choose their own diplomats, then it's "helpful" that Boris can decide who pick for the roles if he becomes PM.

I love how any time this clown calls something "double-think" it's because he doesn't understand the point actually being made.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:55 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Watch out for Farage or his surrogates demanding that May doesn't name a replacement and allows her successor to name him (yes, him).

Edit: The US can then refuse to accept her nominee, of course, which would only go towards proving the agenda behind this whole thing in the first place.

You're letting your paranoia get to you. There most likely won't be an appointment until the new PM is announced and even then it ought to be something very low key.

You do appear to have little in way of understanding of diplomacy and diplomatic relations.

rob63 · Post by **rob63** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:58 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:Farage would be a disaster as an Ambassador. He might get on well with Trump but I suspect that would be short-lived.

Yes, clash of the giant egos.....& Trump would say he had the giantest!

Maybe if Farage got it they could rename the post Embarrassador?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:59 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I love how any time this clown calls something "double-think" it's because he doesn't understand the point actually being made.

Hello Charlie turtle

Explain how it is not double-think to say "the British PM must be able to decide their own ambassador" whilst also proclaiming that the strong front-runner to be British PM" must" also stick with an ambassador who has become embroiled in a political row, even if they don't want to?

If we accept it is our decision who to appoint as ambassador, we must accept Boris has a right to change it if he becomes PM (and that he also has a right to express an opinion as a candidate PM)

These two statements cannot be reconciled.

That's why it's double-think.

It is you who have failed to understand.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Rowls wrote:You're letting your paranoia get to you. There most likely won't be an appointment until the new PM is announced and even then it ought to be something very low key.

You do appear to have little in way of understanding of diplomacy and diplomatic relations.

I've been pretty much on the money so far.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:01 pm

Rowls wrote:You're letting your paranoia get to you. There most likely won't be an appointment until the new PM is announced and even then it ought to be something very low key.

You do appear to have little in way of understanding of diplomacy and diplomatic relations.

Two questions Rowls:
Should the USA have any input as to who the new Ambassador should be?
Would you be happy if Farage got the job?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:09 pm

Rowls wrote:Hello Charlie turtle

Explain how it is not double-think to say "the British PM must be able to decide their own ambassador" whilst also proclaiming that the strong front-runner to be British PM" must" also stick with an ambassador who has become embroiled in a political row, even if they don't want to?

If we accept it is our decision who to appoint as ambassador, we must accept Boris has a right to change it if he becomes PM (and that he also has a right to express an opinion as a candidate PM)

These two statements cannot be reconciled.

That's why it's double-think.

It is you who have failed to understand.

You've completely made up that quote. No one in this thread said "the British PM must be able to decide their own ambassador", except you when you made it up.

What was actually said was, "Pleased Hunt has come out and said if he becomes PM he will not be changing our ambassador. Would be helpful if Bojo would do the same and allow the British PM to choose our diplomats and not a narcisistic imbecile."

And if you had an ounce of intelligence about you you would have been able to figure out that the "narcissistic imbecile" being referred to wasn't Boris, but was in fact Trump. (although it's amusing that you couldn't tell that)

If Boris becomes PM then Tricky is saying that it is him, not Trump, who should decide who our diplomats are.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:29 pm

Spijed wrote:Two questions Rowls:
Should the USA have any input as to who the new Ambassador should be?
Would you be happy if Farage got the job?

1. Yes. You don't "impose" ambassadors. They represent two-way dialogue. It's best to pick people who can do that.
2. No, not really.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Rowls wrote:1. Yes. You don't "impose" ambassadors. They represent two-way dialogue. It's best to pick people who can do that.
2. No, not really.

Do you accept that the reason Darroch has had to resign is because Trump didn't like that Darroch was doing exactly what we were paying him to do?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:33 pm

The point of an ambassador is that they are there to represent our government and our interests. They're not there to be subservient to the whims of a thin-skinned, insensitive moron leading the other government - unless we tell them that's what they should do.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:37 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you accept that the reason Darroch has had to resign is because Trump didn't like that Darroch was doing exactly what we were paying him to do?

No.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:38 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:The point of an ambassador is that they are there to represent our government and our interests. They're not there to be subservient to the whims of a thin-skinned, insensitive moron leading the other government - unless we tell them that's what they should do.

You're still calling this diplomacy stuff absolutely right aren't you?

Spot on.

Brilliant.

Anyone who can't see how right you are here is just stoopid, stooopid, stoooopid.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:39 pm

Rowls wrote:No.

Then you're not connected to reality.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:40 pm

The fact that some people cannot see that Sir Kim's position hadn't become untenable is neither remarkable or unusual.

It's par for the course here sadly.

Diplomacy - another of Turtle's specialist subjects on which he is a world leader.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:41 pm

Rowls wrote:You do appear to have little in way of understanding of diplomacy and diplomatic relations.

Unfortunately that could also be aimed at our future PM.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Rowls wrote:No.

You're wrong.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Then you're not connected to reality.

Only you can see the truth.

The idea that Sir Kim has had to resign because his confidential emails have been leaked and that they revealed some very undiplomatic language isn't one that's going to trouble your "understanding" of the matter is it?

No.

The world and your thoughts (the same thing to you) all revolves around the Bad Orange Man.

Have a super afternoon, I'm off out.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Rowls wrote:The fact that some people cannot see that Sir Kim's position hadn't become untenable is neither remarkable or unusual.

It's par for the course here sadly.

Diplomacy - another of Turtle's specialist subjects on which he is a world leader.

No, dipshit. I completely understand that his position had become untenable, but the reason it is untenable is because he did precisely what he was supposed to do, and someone else leaked it knowing that Trump wouldn't work with him.

The reason his position was untenable was because of Trump deciding it was untenable.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Rowls wrote:The fact that some people cannot see that Sir Kim's position hadn't become untenable is neither remarkable or unusual.

It's par for the course here sadly.

Diplomacy - another of Turtle's specialist subjects on which he is a world leader.

You're right (for once) it hadn't become untenable. In fact had Boris said he'd stay in the role until his intended end date at the end of the year there wouldn't be a problem at all.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:46 pm

Rowls wrote:Only you can see the truth.

The idea that Sir Kim has had to resign because his confidential emails have been leaked and that they revealed some very undiplomatic language isn't one that's going to trouble your "understanding" of the matter is it?

No.

The world and your thoughts (the same thing to you) all revolves around the Bad Orange Man.

Have a super afternoon, I'm off out.

He's not supposed to be using diplomatic language in private communications with his own government. He's supposed to be entirely frank with us, and diplomatic with the Americans.

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:53 pm

James O'Brien fails spectacularly to get Lord Robin Renwick to blame Boris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCIRSt6 ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:06 pm

Rowls wrote:1. Yes. You don't "impose" ambassadors. They represent two-way dialogue. It's best to pick people who can do that.
2. No, not really.

But if Farage does become Ambassador it will be purely because Donald Trump has said he will become Ambassador, not because of any two-way dialogue.

And can you imagine two people with more abhorrent views than those two?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:08 pm

AndyClaret wrote:James O'Brien fails spectacularly to get Lord Robin Renwick to blame Boris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCIRSt6 ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What the actual ****. Did you even listen to it? At no point does JoB even mention or refer to Boris Johnson.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:11 pm

AndyClaret wrote:James O'Brien fails spectacularly to get Lord Robin Renwick to blame Boris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCIRSt6 ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Be honest. You didn't listen to it, did you? You just blindly trusted that the person who uploaded it wasn't completely full of ****, didn't you?

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:11 pm

What does the orange turd in the White House think all the other ambassadors from around the world are saying about him? Is he really deluded enough to think that they're all saying something completely different?

I'd bet good money that nearly every ambassador to the U.S. is reporting a similar thing back to their respective governments as the UK ambassador.

The scandal here isn't what the ambassador reported back to London, it's the fact that someone leaked this information to the press, with malicious intent.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:12 pm

Spijed wrote:But if Farage does become Ambassador it will be purely because Donald Trump has said he will become Ambassador, not because of any two-way dialogue.

And can you imagine two people with more abhorrent views than those two?

Farage's views wouldn't even matter. The job of the UK ambassador to any foreign country is to represent the interests of the UK government. There's absolutely no way Farage will be doing that.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:25 pm

martin_p wrote:You're right (for once) it hadn't become untenable. In fact had Boris said he'd stay in the role until his intended end date at the end of the year there wouldn't be a problem at all.

Lame duck diplomat in position for 5 months whilst we leave the EU and negotiate a trade deal with the US = no problem?

Nurse!

Imploding Turtle wrote:He's not supposed to be using diplomatic language in private communications with his own government. He's supposed to be entirely frank with us, and diplomatic with the Americans.

He's meant to be diplomatic at all times. He has a reasonable expectancy that confidential emails remain confidential (and the real villain here is whoever leaked) but at the same time he really ought not to be putting down that kind of language in writing. It's careless and there are plenty of euphemistic terms he could have used.

He needs moving sideways asap. Theresa May's refusal to do the sensible thing and quietly move him on was a sign of her own obstinacy as the President's crassness.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:30 pm

Well hasn't this afternoon just flown by. Probably cos I was having such a super time

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 pm

Rowls wrote:Lame duck diplomat in position for 5 months whilst we leave the EU and negotiate a trade deal with the US = no problem?

Nurse!

He's meant to be diplomatic at all times. He has a reasonable expectancy that confidential emails remain confidential (and the real villain here is whoever leaked) but at the same time he really ought not to be putting down that kind of language in writing. It's careless and there are plenty of euphemistic terms he could have used.

He needs moving sideways asap. Theresa May's refusal to do the sensible thing and quietly move him on was a sign of her own obstinacy as the President's crassness.

There are some seriously stupid people on this message board, but none of them have such a capacity as Rowls does for thinking that they're not stupid.

Rowls, he was an ambassador, not a ******* arbiter. He is not supposed to be diplomatic with our government. He worked for our ******* government. It was his job to always give his complete and honest assessment to us. This should be blatantly ******* obvious.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:34 pm

Oh dear, the stars have come out early today.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:38 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:What does the orange turd in the White House think all the other ambassadors from around the world are saying about him? Is he really deluded enough to think that they're all saying something completely different?

I'd bet good money that nearly every ambassador to the U.S. is reporting a similar thing back to their respective governments as the UK ambassador.

I'd bet good money that nearly every - if not every - European ambassador to the UK is currently reporting back similar things to their respective governments about us.
Some on the brexit side of things seem to make a ludicrous assumption that the other 27 EU countries don't follow our political troubles and can't see through Boris's false promises and opportunism .Their ambassadors' reports, (revealing how dysfunctional we are and what a mess we're in) will make interesting reading if they ever get leaked.

Tricky Trevor · Post by **Tricky Trevor** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:46 pm

Rowls wrote:Well done Tricky Trev. Gave you a 'like' for your double-think.

If it's "helpful" for British PMs to be able to choose their own diplomats, then it's "helpful" that Boris can decide who pick for the roles if he becomes PM.

I will never recognize Bojo as a PM. Circumstances have led this Trump puppet into a position he will never deserve. Even you as a rabid tory boy must see that.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:52 pm

Rowls wrote:Oh dear, the stars have come out early today.

But you are very wrong on this one. He will have been asked for his honest opinion and has given it. The language isn’t in any way crude, merely telling it how he sees it. No other ambassador of any other country to any other country will be any different. He’s been publicly attacked by a foreign president and we should be sticking up for him, as should anyone with pretentions of being PM.

Boris’s reaction will not have gone down well in the upper eschelons of the public sector either, he needs to keep these people on side if he wants any sort of success as PM.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:57 pm

Meanwhile Nigel Farage has suggested a Brexiteer should be the next US ambassador. What a surprise!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:01 pm

martin_p wrote:Meanwhile Nigel Farage has suggested a Brexiteer should be the next US ambassador. What a surprise!

As the prophecy foretold.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:08 pm

Ye Gads! Forsooth the second sight is strong in these posters!

Zounds! What other prophesies shall be foretold?

Will the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative?

Tell us! We must know!

Keep not your powers to yourself!

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:10 pm

Rowls wrote:Ye Gads! Forsooth the second sight is strong in these posters!

Zounds! What other prophesies shall be foretold?

Will the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative?

Tell us! We must know!

Keep not your powers to yourself!

Even you must recognise that if Farage is given the job, it'll be one almighty stitch-up!

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:11 pm

martin_p wrote:But you are very wrong on this one. He will have been asked for his honest opinion and has given it. The language isn’t in any way crude, merely telling it how he sees it. No other ambassador of any other country to any other country will be any different. He’s been publicly attacked by a foreign president and we should be sticking up for him, as should anyone with pretentions of being PM.

See post 80.

All of your points have been countered and addressed.

martin_p wrote:Boris’s reaction will not have gone down well in the upper eschelons of the public sector either, he needs to keep these people on side if he wants any sort of success as PM.

Then they need to re-learn the difference between the role of civil servants and elected politicians. And if they refuse to learn they ought to be sacked.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:11 pm

Spijed wrote:Even you must recognise that if Farage is given the job, it'll be one almighty stitch-up!

I don't think it's all likely but what do you mean by "stitch-up"?

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Be honest. You didn't listen to it, did you? You just blindly trusted that the person who uploaded it wasn't completely full of ****, didn't you?

I listened to it live you pr!ck, and listened to the recording afterwards.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:15 pm

Rowls wrote:See post 80.

All of your points have been countered and addressed.

Then they need to re-learn the difference between the role of civil servants and elected politicians. And if they refuse to learn they ought to be sacked.

Boris has refused to support a civil servant under attack for doing his job, perhaps it’s him that needs to do the learning.

As for the not putting things down in writing, he’ll have been asked for a written report!

AndyClaret · Post by **AndyClaret** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What the actual ****. Did you even listen to it? At no point does JoB even mention or refer to Boris Johnson.

For context, he'd spent the previous 2 hours blaming Boris for it.

Other clips where he trys to get guests to blame Boris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwjDcsj ... e=youtu.be" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J66TBYWIWFY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYOC-w2yOk0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:20 pm

Rowls wrote:Ye Gads! Forsooth the second sight is strong in these posters!

Zounds! What other prophesies shall be foretold?

Will the next Prime Minister will be a Conservative?

Tell us! We must know!

Keep not your powers to yourself!

The next appointment should, as a civil servant, be neutral politically and just do the bidding of the government in charge (as did Darrick). For Farage to try and introduce a political element into this shows a complete lack of appreciation on the role.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:20 pm

Rowls wrote:I don't think it's all likely but what do you mean by "stitch-up"?

As an Ambassador they have to have a certain degree of impartiality. Can you see that with Trump & Farage working together?

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:27 pm

martin_p wrote:Boris has refused to support a civil servant under attack for doing his job, perhaps it’s him that needs to do the learning.

As for the not putting things down in writing, he’ll have been asked for a written report!

Doesn't look like a report to me, looks much more informal than that.

As I've already covered in post 80 - although it's not his fault he would have been wiser to choose more discreet phrases. It's not as though our political classes aren't aware of the nature of President Trumps entourage or his governing style.

Nothing in the leaks would have been "news" to the PM, so it could have been left unsaid.

As I said, I covered all this in post 80.

I feel a bit for Sir Kim, but he's been unwise and I doubt he'll suffer too much for it.

As for the civil servants learning their place again:

They're the ones under investigation.
They're the ones who have leaked the information.

They need to re-learn their jobs. There has been far too much political interference from the CS and it's something which needs eradicating from our political system.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Rowls wrote:I feel a bit for Sir Kim, but he's been unwise

Has he ********.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:30 pm

martin_p wrote:The next appointment should, as a civil servant, be neutral politically and just do the bidding of the government in charge (as did Darrick). For Farage to try and introduce a political element into this shows a complete lack of appreciation on the role.

If he's been "politically neutral" then how can he branded a "Remainer" without any rebuttal?

The culture of the civil service has been changing for the worse since the Blair years and it has become increasingly politicized.

The whole culture needs reforming and changing to eradicate their political interference. The servants should serve, the politicians are their masters. This needs re-learning.